How to prevent hypo when playing tennis?

"M Shirley Chong" wrote in message
...
Beav wrote:

Yeah, you may have gone LOW, but you won't go unconscious, you won't
need
any thrid part help, and your BG WILL climb back without intervention.
Going
TRULY hypo is the province of those who take BG lowering meds, and if it
wasn't, then every man and his dog would be using a BG meter 8 or 10
times a
day and walking around with a pocketful of glucose tabs.

Not true. I have gone unconscious from hypoglycemia without being on
either meds or insulin. All I did was stand up and I just passed out
cold.

I think I'd be looking at blood PRESSURE problems there, not glucose levels.

Testing after being given glucose showed I was definitely
hypoglycemic even AFTER the glucose.

Before I was dx'd as a T1, there were a few occasions when I went what would
now be cnsidered majorly hypo. (falliong down hypo) but I put that down to
the probability that during the run up to actual dx, my pancreas was running
in fits and starts. Maybe I even got a huge "dose" of insulin but once I was
dx'd, on injected insulin and stabilised, I've never exprienced anything so
severe.

What I'm trying to say is that for a NORMAL person, (and that inclused a
normal "stabilised" diabetic) an unconscious hypo isn't going to happen
unless there are meds involved. The diabetic IS diabetic because he/she
can't stop sugars going HIGH, not low. If they have a problem countering LOW
sugars, it's not diabetes that's the problem, it's something else (or
something else as well)


That's part of being diabetic for some diabetics.

Fortunately I've never had seizures due to hypoglycemia but the
concussion (when I passed out, I went headfirst into a concrete
wall) was quite unpleasant all on it's own.

Banging ones head on a brick was isn't SUPPOSED to be pleasant :-))



--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (
with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

"Julie Bove" wrote in message
...




"Beav" wrote in message
...

Yeah, you may have gone LOW, but you won't go unconscious, you won't
need
any thrid part help, and your BG WILL climb back without intervention.
Going
TRULY hypo is the province of those who take BG lowering meds, and if it
wasn't, then every man and his dog would be using a BG meter 8 or 10
times
a
day and walking around with a pocketful of glucose tabs.

You are right. I didn't need medical intervention, but I did pass out
twice! Luckily, I didn't injure myself during the fall or might have
needed
it. And luckily, I wasn't driving a car or operating machinery. I do
believe however that my hypos were truly hypos. Is 29 not a hypo? And
remember, I did have reactive hypoglycemia prior to diabetes. Does this
go
away? I don't know. Maybe now I have both?

Ahh, well maybe you do Julie, because I can't see how a condition which
results in HIGH blood sugars can also produce such LOW sugars that someone
passes out. I'd suspect something other than diabetes is the culprit.

Beav

What was the rationale for your doctor keeping you off medication?.



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Beav wrote:

I think I'd be looking at blood PRESSURE problems there, not glucose levels.

I've had low blood pressure (100/50) for my entire adult life. I'm
very used to compensating by pumping it up a bit before I stand.
Actually, so far as I can tell, the low blood pressure doesn't cause
any problems for me at all.

What I'm trying to say is that for a NORMAL person, (and that inclused a
normal "stabilised" diabetic) an unconscious hypo isn't going to happen
unless there are meds involved. The diabetic IS diabetic because he/she
can't stop sugars going HIGH, not low. If they have a problem countering LOW
sugars, it's not diabetes that's the problem, it's something else (or
something else as well)

Actually, many people who have reactive hypoglycemia go on to
develop non-insulin-dependent diabetes. It's considered part of the
whole progression. I've had reactive hypoglycemia since childhood
(age 10 or so) and finally went on to become diabetic.

I still have problems with reactive hypoglycemia. My glycosylated
hemoglobin results have been absolutely normal for eight years and I
haven't seen a blood glucose reading over 125 in that time span.
However, if I start out with a fasting blood glucose, then go on to
exercise intensely OR sit in a warm, muggy room for very long
(it's a weird trigger but it's reproducible) I would become
hypoglycemic. And since my first symptoms of hypoglycemia occur
about 30 seconds before I pass out, if I were distracted it would be
easy for me to miss them.

I know my pancreas is still producing adequate insulin because I
control my blood glucose levels via diet and exercise alone.
However, the regulating mechanism has become wonky apparently.

This may change as I get older; my mother is diabetic and now, in
her seventies, has had to start taking medication to increase her
insulin sensitivity. But she was diabetic for 30+ years before she
had to take medication, so I'm hopeful that I'll have a similar long
period without medication. And by then, who knows? Maybe there will
be an actual cure!

Shirley

to reply via e-mail remove the trees from my address

For the past 3 months, she says that my bg control is good.
I do wonder if that's good enough.
Any comments.


"Ren Patterson" wrote in message
om...
What was the rationale for your doctor keeping you off medication?.



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"ojatt" WROTE:
I am a newly diagnosed T2 3 months back.
Currently not on meds on doctor's advice.
If your BG, from your testing results is good, fine and dandy.
You may need to go on some of the meds used for Type 2 diabetes,
in the future, or, perhaps your doctor is waiting to see how well
you are able to stabilize your BG on a proper diet, before
considering any meds.

I have to avoid most carbs and exercise to control my bg.
I have played tennis for 20 years and unfortunately stopped playing
the last 4 years and wish to start again.
By all means, you should be able to start again, and
the exercise is a healthy bonus.

But I have a problem. Currently I get blurred visions after jogging 3 kms
and my bg readings was found to be below 3.9 mmol/L (70 mg/dl). I suspected
I got hypo during my run.
Of course ! You may have started off doing exercise with your BG at the
lowest possible "safe" level.The exercise lowered your BG even more,
(you were also on a low-carb diet), and you felt low.
To verify this, next time, test your BG before and after running
or doing other exercise.
It is a good idea for any diabetic to know how low they are
when they feel low. Testing is the only way to know.

Note that my fasting bg is 5.5 mmol/L (100 mg/dl)
2 hour after meal - 6.0 to 7..8 (108 to 140) with alot of effort.
Keep up the effort. That is excellent.

Next week and I am planning to hit with some friends.
I however don't want to pass out in front of them, if I got hypo again.
Usually (before diabetes) at my current fitness level, I can play a 2 hour
match easily. But with diabetes, now I wonder now if I will ever play tennis again.
You certainly will be able to play tennis again,
but you will need to keep the BG under control.
That may take some time, with learning and adjustments for your specific needs.

My doctor told me not to exert myself. But I can't help it and know I will
do the opposite. Especially when a small wager is on the line.
By all means. You should not have to give up tennis.
But you might want to lay off the wagers until you get
the diabetes under better control.
Your tennis partners will need to understand that when your BG is low,
you need to take a break and cannot continue the game.
While that is a legitimate excuse, they may not understand completely,
or may feel that you are using it as an excuse to win the wager.
You may need to make a provision that when you are low, the wager
for that game is not counted, and is replayed when your BG is OK.
That game can be played with or without you just for fun.

I need your kind advice on how to avoid hypo before, during and after my
matches.
What and when should I eat before my match?
What and how much should I feed myself throughout the game?
What should I take after the match so as not to pass out in my car
on my way back?
The car issue is most important.
What you need to take with you is your meter, and use it to test your BG
before you start driving. If low, take some form of carbs.
NEVER drive when you are low, even for a short distance.
If you are not really low, but feel that way, then
you should still not drive until you feel better.

Am I too demanding with myself?
Not at all.

Thank you all you good people out there for the help.

Zad
Singapore
I expected this question to be answered by now, but it appears,
at the time of my posting, that you have received a lot of mixed advice.
So, you can add mine to the quagmire, and hopefully, this will help.
In addition to my above comments, and those of other posters,
while it is possible to have some feelings of low blood sugars when
you are not actually low, more so in a Type 2 than a Type 1 diabetic,
it does appear from what you have stated, that you were actually low.
In either case, you can't very well go on with a game
or with driving if you feel low.

In a Type 1 diabetic, this is fairly easy to resolve.
Extra exercise makes the BG get low, so, before the exercise,
take some form of sugar. This brings the BG up.
The exercise brings it back down. End result = a normal BG.
Sometimes easier said than done, but not that difficult.

In a Type 2, things are a bit different because your pancreas
is producing some insulin. If you load up on carbs before a game,
you are going to produce some insulin, which may defeat the advantage
from the carbs. The extra exercise may even contribute to extra insulin production.
The Type 2 diabetic needs to find an agreeable food solution so as
not to have a high or low BG. This may take some experimenting, or
require certain meds as prescribed by your doctor.
As your body adjusts to your new routine, things should get better
with regard to false symptoms when you are not actually low,
but a very small amount of carbs may actually help,
even if not really needed. You certainly can't play tennis if you
feel like you are low. When you are really low, you do need the carbs.
Knowing the difference is done by testing. Take your meter with you,
and use it. When playing tennis, keep two eyes on the game and
one eye on the meter, in case someone tries to steal it.
Some people think they are worth a lot of money.

You should be able to adjust your BG with the food that you eat.
If you consume only carbs, fruit juice, sugar, etc., then
as a type 2, your pancreas will start to produce some insulin,
and the added exercise may cause you to get low, either from
the exercise itself, or more likely from extra insulin production
combined with the exercise.
One workable solution will be to consume some protein along with
the carbs, prior to a game. Slower release carbs may also help.
Don't stuff yourself, but eat something. Perhaps a sandwich with
cheese, or coldcuts,(baloney, ham, turkey).
You will need to experiment slightly to arrive at the correct
food combination for yourself. Eating something at a break during the
game may help, or after the game. Don't get discouraged if it seems
frustrating, and do use your meter frequently until you are able to
work out a schedule and a routine.

In addition to not wanting bg to go either too high or too low, you don't
want to feel like you are "running out of gas" during the game!

I usually have a carb-snack before running -- a bit of fruit, or a couple of
pieces of chocolate, that sort of thing. And if I'm out for an extended time
(over about 75 min, which is unusual), then I'll have something with me -- I
don't need to do a bg test to know I'll need to give my tank a bit of a
boost! I've seen tennis players (though presumably not diabetic) eating a
bite or two of banana during changeovers -- just a bit of something to keep
you going strong. Some diabetic athletes let their bg run a bit high during
exercise just so they won't risk going low.

I have tested within a few minutes of an hour's run and been high (166). But
despite then having a bread & cheese snack right away, & a choc-chip cookie
an hour later (when bg was 136), an hour after the cookie my bg was down to
104. Another hour and I was down to 71. My muscles were sucking up that
input as fast as they could after that workout. I never could have run those
hills without the pre-race banana (which followed a fruit/yogurt/egg
breakfast & drive to site), not in the time I did!
bj

Beav wrote on Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:24:10 GMT:

"Julie Bove" wrote in message
...

"Pete" wrote in message
...

You cannot go hypo without meds.

Not true! I certainly have! And more times than I care to remember.

Yeah, you may have gone LOW, but you won't go unconscious, you won't need
any third party help, and your BG WILL climb back without intervention.

This is not true, in my experience. I've encountered Type 0s (i.e.
non-diabetics), with hypos four times, and given advice to another T0 on
a newsgroup, who'd described what was clearly a hypo. By "hypo" here,
I'm talking about a state in which the T0 is incapable of coherent speech
or decision making. By contrast, I've never encountered another diabetic
like this.

Going TRULY hypo ....

Is there such a rigorous definition of what a real McCoy hypo is?

.... is the province of those who take BG lowering meds, and if it
wasn't, then every man and his dog would be using a BG meter 8 or 10
times a day and walking around with a pocketful of glucose tabs.

.... or of those who have several beers at lunch time instead of food,
then cycle home from the office at 5:30 in the evening.

Beav

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: ; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

"M Shirley Chong" wrote in message
...
Beav wrote:

I think I'd be looking at blood PRESSURE problems there, not glucose
levels.

I've had low blood pressure (100/50) for my entire adult life.

Well that's not going to help you remain "fully compus mentis" when you
suddenly stand up:-)

I'm
very used to compensating by pumping it up a bit before I stand.
Actually, so far as I can tell, the low blood pressure doesn't cause
any problems for me at all.

As far as you know. I'd hazard a guess that is DOES, and you've described
it.


What I'm trying to say is that for a NORMAL person, (and that inclused a
normal "stabilised" diabetic) an unconscious hypo isn't going to happen
unless there are meds involved. The diabetic IS diabetic because he/she
can't stop sugars going HIGH, not low. If they have a problem countering
LOW
sugars, it's not diabetes that's the problem, it's something else (or
something else as well)

Actually, many people who have reactive hypoglycemia go on to
develop non-insulin-dependent diabetes.

I'm not saying the don't, what I AM saying is that a non medicated diabetic
with NO other problems is going to have a REALLY hard time hypo-ing to
unconsciousness, because (like I said before) if they did, every man and his
dog would be clocking off or gorging themselves on glucose tabs every day.

It's considered part of the
whole progression. I've had reactive hypoglycemia since childhood
(age 10 or so) and finally went on to become diabetic.

So it's not the diabets causing the hypo's it's the reactive hypoglycemia.
Not the same thing at all.


I still have problems with reactive hypoglycemia.

There you go then.

My glycosylated
hemoglobin results have been absolutely normal for eight years and I
haven't seen a blood glucose reading over 125 in that time span.
However, if I start out with a fasting blood glucose, then go on to
exercise intensely OR sit in a warm, muggy room for very long
(it's a weird trigger but it's reproducible) I would become
hypoglycemic.

Not diabetes causing that.

And since my first symptoms of hypoglycemia occur
about 30 seconds before I pass out, if I were distracted it would be
easy for me to miss them.

I know my pancreas is still producing adequate insulin because I
control my blood glucose levels via diet and exercise alone.
However, the regulating mechanism has become wonky apparently.

HAS become wonky? Going off what you said, it's been wonky longer than
you've been diabetic, IF you're diabetic at all that it. Never going above
125 in 8 years seems to me to be an impossibility for ANY diabetic, but of
course, I could be wrong.


This may change as I get older; my mother is diabetic and now, in
her seventies, has had to start taking medication to increase her
insulin sensitivity. But she was diabetic for 30+ years before she
had to take medication, so I'm hopeful that I'll have a similar long
period without medication. And by then, who knows? Maybe there will
be an actual cure!

I wouldn't hold my breath

Beav

"Alan Mackenzie" wrote in message
...
Beav wrote on Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:24:10
GMT:

"Julie Bove" wrote in message
...

"Pete" wrote in message
...

You cannot go hypo without meds.

Not true! I certainly have! And more times than I care to remember.

Yeah, you may have gone LOW, but you won't go unconscious, you won't
need
any third party help, and your BG WILL climb back without intervention.

This is not true, in my experience. I've encountered Type 0s (i.e.
non-diabetics), with hypos four times, and given advice to another T0 on
a newsgroup, who'd described what was clearly a hypo. By "hypo" here,
I'm talking about a state in which the T0 is incapable of coherent speech
or decision making. By contrast, I've never encountered another diabetic
like this.

But let's not get too far ahead of ourselvces or confused over words. What
you're describing is a common enough problem, but it's not a DIABETIC
problem, it's more likely to be reactive hypoglycemia or something else
which I don't know about.
That's not to say a diabetic couldn't HAVE the problem, it's to say the
problem isn't necessarily linked to the diabetes itself.

Going TRULY hypo ....

Is there such a rigorous definition of what a real McCoy hypo is?

Well I'd say when you've got to the point where you can't help yourself and
need some intervention, but ther IS a clinical definition which I believe
(although I could be a bit out) is around 3.5mmol/l. For ME that's not hypo
but I have been accused of being hypo by lots of people becasue I can run at
3.5 for hours with no problem.


.... is the province of those who take BG lowering meds, and if it
wasn't, then every man and his dog would be using a BG meter 8 or 10
times a day and walking around with a pocketful of glucose tabs.

... or of those who have several beers at lunch time instead of food,
then cycle home from the office at 5:30 in the evening.

Well I'm not getting into the booze aspect:-)

Beav