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#21
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Two Week Induction Results
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#22
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Two Week Induction Results
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message ups.com... "em" wrote: "Aaron Baugher" wrote: "em" writes: I do think that 20 carbs/day may be a bit much for me in starting out. In addition to counting carbs, I need to use a little common sense. I'm not sure why that amount is "a bit much" for you. I did low-carb some time back, maybe eight or so years ago? I did really well for quite a while & then I screwed it up pretty bad. So I learned a lot about what to do, what to not do and how to really screw up. I'm trying to carry those lessons forward. So many people screw it up and need to start again. I've done it. The important part is to ask yourself what choices you have that actually work - Quiting and gaining it all back sure doesn't, so the real choice is switching to some other type of plan or trying to learn a lesson each fall so the next fall doesn't happen for longer than the last one. So what happened? The same thing that happened to my previous quit smoking attempts. One cheat -- got away with it. Two cheats, three cheats... pretty soon back to a pack a day. The speed at which I can gain back lost weight is *amazing*. I don't have any stats, but it seems like 25 pounds in a month is nothing. I'm sure a lot of that is water, but holy cow. I'm a [insert word] addict. Carbs addict, food addict, whatever. There are a few things that have changed in my life that make me believe that I will succeed this time for the long run. For one, I'm older and more mature. Two is that I'm at the tail end of my divorce and wanting to date. No women, it seems, wants to date an obese guy. Number three is that I went through a very minor scare re. my heart. I went in for all kinds of testing, nuclear whatever, treadmil, and my heart is in perfect shape. However, that is like a HUGE blessing from G-d based on how I've treated my body. So, last but not least, I'm hitting "middle age" & am starting to realize that I am no longer immortal. One thing I learned was that, at that time, IIRC, my tolerance for carbs on OWL was around 35, This means you were out of ketosis at 40, right? That's how you find your CCLL - out of ketosis and/or carb cravings start no matter how you get to that carb count even with broccoli. Yes, and would start gaining back a little instead of losing it. Or eat root veggies like a serving of carrot with dinner ... Carrots are about four carbs each. Not much, I know, but they're kind of a trigger for me. I can eat a one pound bag of baby carrots just as easily as a pound of raw almonds! So I may buy a nice carrot sometime at the grocery store, then sit down on a bench outside the store and eat it as a treat. Maybe if I'm on a walk & go past the store or something. I also learned that a lot of the foods that one is allowed to have when you up your carb limit are foods that are real "trigger foods" for me, such as nuts and seeds. I've been thinking about that too. I'm getting a little anxous to up my carb limit because I am starting to feel a little limited by the foods I can eat. But I'm still commited to taking it slow. On Atkins no food is ever allowed if it's a trigger. The carb ladder is the order to try things to find out if they are a trigger for you, not a list of what is allowed at what carb quota. If you didn't understand this, you missed half of the conceptual framework of the Atkins approach. I read the old book, the first DANDR. I never bought the second one. I also read the original Protein Power, CAD, etc. I know how to count carbs and why; I should probably buy one of the newer low-carb books and learn more. What I remember from doing LC in the past is that you lose quite a bit during the first two weeks, mostly water. Sometime within the next few weeks you hit a period where you don't make any progress for about a week, and then you fall into your regular loss pattern, whatever that is, say one to two pounds a week. That's the expected pattern. It is never guaranteed and each restart has its own chance of following expected patterns or not. I went on-and-off low-carb so many times in the past, I built up a tolerance or something and it just plain stopped working for me. It seems to be going pretty well now, though. I believe my OWL carb tolerance is going to be fairly low, and I'm not as active as I was back then. I want to stick with 20 carbs until I see my weight loss fall into some sort of pattern so that I can perform a reasonably valid experiment to find out what my daily carb limit should be. Do you have the belief that adding carbs will reduce your loss rate? It won't. Keep your carbs too low and thyroid starts cutting T3 output. That causes basal metabolism to drift down and reduces loss rates. That's an interesting thought! Do you have a reference for that? The point of CCLL is it sets the carb intake high enough for the T3 reduction to not happen but to keep insulin low enough for fat to flow out of storage not into it. I'm not interested in staying at 20 carbs forever. I've done induction & am looking forward to finding what my tolerance will be. Lets see, I'm at 245. I don't know exactly where I need to be weight wise, but I am a very big framed person. I'm thinking between 210 and 220 will be about right. Either way, I expect to be there by the end of this year. If it tends to cause cravings, you may want to start monitoring your blood sugar. Twenty g/day, or even 30g, shouldn't cause significant cravings if your blood sugar is at all under control, but it could if you're diabetic. I do have type-2. Then controlling blood sugar levels aces loss rates for you. Track meter ratings as you move your quota up. Stop the increases if you either drop out of ketosis or your blood sugar levels start going up. I have been controlling my blood sugar through my diet for quite a long time & don't have my finger-poker kit any more. (Probably in the x's garage somewhere.) There are a lot of things I have to look out for! Things that I want to eat, that are low-carb, but I know I have difficulty with, I buy in small amounts. Like almonds -- yah, I can buy the 16oz package for $3.99 but they'll disappear that night. So I buy the 2 oz packackage for $1.99 and save a dollar. For me it's cashews. No matter the size of the package of cashews I eat them until it's empty. Not a bad thing with a two ounce package. A very bad thing with a 16 ounce jar! My strategy was to try other nuts until I found one I didn't have that problem with. A box of almonds, pecans or filberts for me can last a long time since I can take a handful, close the lid, and not think of it again for a couple of days. I love 'em all. Sunflower seeds are a good snack for me because you can find them in small packages just about anywhere. So is using a smaller package the right idea given the principles of Atkins? Food intolerances trigger binges and addictive responses according to Atkins. The way to acheive long term control is to learn all of your intolerances and practice complete avoidance on them. Eat small packages to control your portions and what you're doing is gradually eroding your control. Especially at first I suggest following this Atkins concept carefully. Try something other than almonds for a while not sue small packages. Makes sense. This is in the second book? Actually, I've been doing pretty damn good. My kids have all kinds of carb-o-la (as in crap-o-la) around the house, and I'm not even tempted to touch it. I know, for a fact, that if I have that one bite of the wrong food, I'll screw myself up. One bite really does hurt. Maybe a direct binge, maybe gradual erosion of control. Those temptations will never, ever, ever, stop being under our noses in this world. "Gradual erosion of control." To me, that is where the "just one bite" philosophy goes. Been there. Done that. I don't care who's b-day it is or who I offend, I am not going to have that "one little bite" of birthday cake no matter how hard my fat friends try to shove it down my thought. *******s! They're the reason I'm fat, you know ;-))) I rarely eat meals, I snack (and snack and snack) all day long. I might eat bacon & eggs two or three times a day. Hard to control. The concept of "three square meals" may be nonsense for some, but I think for you it needs to be a goal. Elaborate on that, please. It is calories/carbs per day that count. I find my appitite is under much better control when I try to keep my stomach small. I'm a big guy, and if I were to cut down to three squares a day, I'd have to enlarge my stomach (I think). I'm not seeing that as a good idea, but I'd like to hear you out on that. Set up long term habits that give control not take it away. When I was doing low-cal I was writing down everything I ate. I eat like 10 to 15 times a day, and THAT'S when I'm watching myself and counting calories! (I seem to be eating fewer times during the day since I started induction.) Journalling is still a good idea on low carb. I'm going to hold off on that & see where I go with what I'm doing now. I really hate having to write down everything I eat. I'll do it if I have to, but only if I have to. 3) Allow myself one or possibly two treats a week of something that I've really been missing. A few oz. of almonds or 1/2 a cup of cottage cheese, something like that. Most people can tolerate these things, on low-carb, on a daily bases. NOT ME. I'm still not sure what you mean by "tolerate." Can you elaborate? By tolerate, I mean what I can or cannot eat and still do well in regards to losing weight, be that carb count or the propensity of a certain food to drive me towards a binge. If it gives the urge to binge you need to avoid it not allow yourself one or two exposures per week. Find other stuff to use as treats. Another interesting thought! With cigarettes, you can give them up completely. Same with liquor. Food, if your a food addict, you can't just stop eating. I have been doing pretty good at controlling my binging for some time now and still eat a lot of the foods I really enjoy. I bought a 16oz container of cottage cheese this week -- one of my favorite foods -- it lasted for four days & I stayed within my limits. I've had two 2oz packages of almonds and that went pretty well too. I could probably binge on just about anything. If I do find something that drives me nuts and makes me want to binge, as I continue on, I'll definitely avoid that food in the future. Thanks! |
#23
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Two Week Induction Results
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message . .. wrote: Why worry about how many calories are in a half cup of blue cheese dressing, as long as you're losing very nicely? Who uses a half a cup of dressing at a time anyhow? Unless they're swimming in it. Sheesh. C'mon now... I think we've all swam in some sort of something at one time or another or we wouldn't be here. We'd be hanging out with our skinny friends who pole vault during their lunch breaks. I did say a 1/4 cup two times/day. That's only 4T -- not a lot of dressing on a big green salad (with Tuna.... yummm...) |
#24
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Two Week Induction Results
em wrote:
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message . .. wrote: Why worry about how many calories are in a half cup of blue cheese dressing, as long as you're losing very nicely? Who uses a half a cup of dressing at a time anyhow? Unless they're swimming in it. Sheesh. C'mon now... I think we've all swam in some sort of something at one time or another or we wouldn't be here. We'd be hanging out with our skinny friends who pole vault during their lunch breaks. I did say a 1/4 cup two times/day. That's only 4T -- not a lot of dressing on a big green salad (with Tuna.... yummm...) I've never used a half cup of dressing on a salad in my life. I generally thin mine down with vinegar, so a tablespoon is more than enough. |
#25
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Two Week Induction Results
On Jul 30, 11:05 am, Doug Freyburger wrote:
"em" wrote: End result: 253 down to 245 -- 8 pounds in two weeks. Considering this was a switch from low-cal to low-carb, I think that's pretty damn good, as I didn't have bags of water to drop. Overall, I am now down more then fifty pounds from my original 298, and I'm really happy about that. Especially since you switched from another type of plan, that is a superior result. I do think that 20 carbs/day may be a bit much for me in starting out. In addition to counting carbs, I need to use a little common sense. Do you have any evidence for thinking that if low is good, lower must be better? It's not true. The concept of the Atkins CCLL is that every body has its own customized ideal carb intake level for loss, and CCLM for maintenance. The idea of the initial 20 is it's so low almost no one has ideal levels that low. I'd say the best evidence that lower carb leads to faster weight loss is Atkins himself. When going over the option of why soemeone may want to stay at induction level of carbs longer, he asked the rhetorical question "Do you have a lot to lose?" Now if he thought lower carbs resulted in slower weight loss, it would be very strange to suggest people with a lot to lose may want to consider staying on induction longer. And if he thought higher carbs were better, that would be a perfect time to just say so too. I;ve presented this to you before, yet you ignore it. |
#26
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Two Week Induction Results
Do you have the belief that adding carbs will reduce your
loss rate? It won't. Keep your carbs too low and thyroid starts cutting T3 output. That causes basal metabolism to drift down and reduces loss rates. The point of CCLL is it sets the carb intake high enough for the T3 reduction to not happen but to keep insulin low enough for fat to flow out of storage not into it. He isn't the only one that has seen this. In fact, adding carbs and seeing weight loss slowly decrease is part of the whole concept of Atkins as you move through the stages. And at some point the weight loss stops all together. You think there is just some magic on/off point, and you can add carbs and weight loss just goes on at a fixed rate, until you past some point and then it instantly stops. That hasn't been my experience. Like EM, I've lost most rapidly when at no more than 20g of carbs. If I add carbs, it slows down. If it works for him, what's your problem? |
#27
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Two Week Induction Results
em wrote:
:: I'm a [insert word] addict. Carbs addict, food addict, whatever. :: :: There are a few things that have changed in my life that make me :: believe that I will succeed this time for the long run. For one, I'm :: older and more mature. Two is that I'm at the tail end of my divorce :: and wanting to date. No women, it seems, wants to date an obese guy. :: Number three is that I went through a very minor scare re. my heart. :: I went in for all kinds of testing, nuclear whatever, treadmil, and :: my heart is in perfect shape. However, that is like a HUGE blessing :: from G-d based on how I've treated my body. So, last but not least, :: I'm hitting "middle age" & am starting to realize that I am no :: longer immortal. This sounds exactly like something I might have written back in 2001 before I started LCing. |
#28
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Two Week Induction Results
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#29
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Two Week Induction Results
wrote in message oups.com... On Jul 30, 11:05 am, Doug Freyburger wrote: "em" wrote: End result: 253 down to 245 -- 8 pounds in two weeks. Considering this was a switch from low-cal to low-carb, I think that's pretty damn good, as I didn't have bags of water to drop. Overall, I am now down more then fifty pounds from my original 298, and I'm really happy about that. Especially since you switched from another type of plan, that is a superior result. I do think that 20 carbs/day may be a bit much for me in starting out. In addition to counting carbs, I need to use a little common sense. Do you have any evidence for thinking that if low is good, lower must be better? It's not true. The concept of the Atkins CCLL is that every body has its own customized ideal carb intake level for loss, and CCLM for maintenance. The idea of the initial 20 is it's so low almost no one has ideal levels that low. I'd say the best evidence that lower carb leads to faster weight loss is Atkins himself. When going over the option of why soemeone may want to stay at induction level of carbs longer, he asked the rhetorical question "Do you have a lot to lose?" Now if he thought lower carbs resulted in slower weight loss, it would be very strange to suggest people with a lot to lose may want to consider staying on induction longer. And if he thought higher carbs were better, that would be a perfect time to just say so too. I;ve presented this to you before, yet you ignore it. No, I have not. I've been overwhelmed with information & busy with work and not been able to reply to all the posts I'd like to. |
#30
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Two Week Induction Results
"em" writes:
I'm a [insert word] addict. Carbs addict, food addict, whatever. I've always been resistant to calling it that, simply because there seems to be a attitude of victimhood that often goes along with addiction talk, and I suspect that doesn't help people take charge of their own actions. If you say you're "suffering from whatever", it makes it sound like something else has control of you. Still, the parallels between carbohydrate cravings and addictions to drugs and alcohol are pretty strong, so I do think there are things to be learned from the comparison. There are a few things that have changed in my life that make me believe that I will succeed this time for the long run. For one, I'm older and more mature. Two is that I'm at the tail end of my divorce and wanting to date. No women, it seems, wants to date an obese guy. You'd be surprised. Women really are attracted much more by personality than looks. If your gut isn't actually hanging out under your shirt, many women, especially older ones who aren't still caught up in the fantasy of bagging Brad Pitt, will overlook your size if you have the right body language. Just look around; there are tons of dumpy guys married to women far more attractive than them -- physically, anyway. What you'll probably find -- what I found, anyway -- is that losing weight improves your confidence drastically, which makes you both much more attractive to women and more likely to approach them. You don't have to finish one first; if you work on both, they can build on each other. Success breeds success, even in other areas of life. Lose a few pounds, gain some confidence and optimism, your body language improves, an attractive woman buys you a drink, up goes your dedication to continued success, more pounds come off, ladies are asking for your number, etc..... It's a beautiful thing. Lets see, I'm at 245. I don't know exactly where I need to be weight wise, but I am a very big framed person. I'm thinking between 210 and 220 will be about right. Either way, I expect to be there by the end of this year. Protein Power has a method for determining your ideal weight range, or you can just lose until you're happy with the way you look. Mine is about 200 pounds (I'm a very large-framed guy too), so I'm shooting for next summer to have it all off, but I want to hit 220 by the end of the year. -- Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz |
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