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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
Hi everyone (hi me),
I'm going to poke the group with a low-carb topic to see if there is still life somewhere in here So, I think many of you make the "flax meal foccacia bread". I never recall why I never make more that what I do, and each time, I recall the reaseon when eating it: I'm not so found of the ammonia smell. You know, the smell that you get when too much egg encounters too much baking powder. Yerk.... So, is there a trick to avoid this? I wan't believe that all the people who love this recipie do not feel the dead fish fragrance (I'm exagerating, but it gets a good deal of concentration not to focus on it). THx for your advice, Huey |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
On 2011-04-05 05:30:52 -0500, Hueyduck said:
Hi everyone (hi me), I'm going to poke the group with a low-carb topic to see if there is still life somewhere in here So, I think many of you make the "flax meal foccacia bread". I never recall why I never make more that what I do, and each time, I recall the reaseon when eating it: I'm not so found of the ammonia smell. You know, the smell that you get when too much egg encounters too much baking powder. Yerk.... So, is there a trick to avoid this? I wan't believe that all the people who love this recipie do not feel the dead fish fragrance (I'm exagerating, but it gets a good deal of concentration not to focus on it). THx for your advice, I've never noticed that particular aroma, but perhaps that is because I modified the recipe almost from the start. I did not like the texture the first time I made it, so I substituted some wheat protein isolate for some of the flax meal. This added protein allowed me to cut back on the eggs. Here's the recipe with my changes. [] = My changes. The WPI makes for a more glutinous, breadlike texture, and adds a "wheaty" flavor, without increasing the carb count.Â*The added proteinÂ*also decreased the number of eggs required. Curiously, I diod not have to adjust the liquids. Â* Ingredients: • 2 cups flax seed mealÂ* [1 3/4 c. flax seed meal + 1/4 c Wheat Protein Isolate] • 1 Tablespoon baking powder • 1 teaspoon salt • 1-2 Tablespoons sugar equivalent from artificial sweetener [Use liquid Splenda] • 5 beaten eggs [4 beaten eggs] • 1/2 cup water • 1/3 cup oil Preparation: Preheat oven to 350 F. Prepare pan (a 10X15 pan with sides works best) with oiled parchment paper or a silicone mat. 1) Mix dry ingredients well -- a whisk works well. 2) Add wet to dry, and combine well. Make sure there aren't obvious strings of egg white hanging out in the batter. 3) Let batter set for 2 to 3 minutes to thicken up some (leave it too long and it gets past the point where it's easy to spread.) ["Knead" with whisk to increase gluten formation] 4) Pour batter onto pan. Because it's going to tend to mound in the middle, you'll get a more even thickness if you spread it away from the center somewhat, in roughly a rectangle an inch or two from the sides of the pan (you can go all the way to the edge, but it will be thinner). 5) Bake for about 20 [25-30] minutes , until it springs back when you touch the top and/or is visibly browning even more than flax already is. [Consider increasing temp to 375 F to improve browning] 6) Cool and cut into whatever size slices you want. You don't need a sharp knife; I usually just cut it with a spatula. Nutritional Information: Each of 12 servings has less than a gram of effective carbohydrate (.7 grams to be exact) plus 5 grams fiber, 6 grams protein, and 185 calories. HTH! -- Bill O'Meally "Wise Fool" -- Gandalf, _The Two Towers_ (The Wise will remove 'se' to reach me. The Foolish will not!) |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
Bill O'Meally a écrit :
On 2011-04-05 05:30:52 -0500, Hueyduck said: I've never noticed that particular aroma, but perhaps that is because I modified the recipe almost from the start. - I don't think this is related. I get the same flavour whenever I have too much egg along with too much baking powder. But here, they are quite essential, so I don't know wich one to cut. - I did not like the texture the first time I made it, so I substituted some wheat protein isolate for some of the flax meal. This added protein allowed me to cut back on the eggs. Here's the recipe with my changes. - Isn't wheat protein simply... gluten? ) In that case, I have some, and I might try your recipie. [] = My changes. The WPI makes for a more glutinous, breadlike texture, and adds a "wheaty" flavor, without increasing the carb count. The added protein also decreased the number of eggs required. Curiously, I diod not have to adjust the liquids. Strange point, the liquids one. I will try your recipie and tell you if it helped or not. Ingredients: (...) • 1-2 Tablespoons sugar equivalent from artificial sweetener [Use liquid Splenda] did you find that this ingredient was really usefull? I remember the first time I tried this recipie, I did'nt like the sweetness that much. • 1/3 cup oil out of curiosity, wich one do you use? I tried refined canola (not the raw organic stuff, wich couldnot be cooked, but the refined canola oil, wich supports 180°C/350°F without a problem. I think I'll try olive oil and, in another batch, "cleared" butter (I don't know the proper english term: I want to talk about the butter from wich the protein and water has been removed) Thanks for your answer. Huey |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
Hueyduck wrote:
Bill O'Meally a écrit : • 1/3 cup oil out of curiosity, wich one do you use? I tried refined canola (not the raw organic stuff, wich couldnot be cooked, but the refined canola oil, wich supports 180°C/350°F without a problem. That's what I thought of in your original post. On foodie groups there is occasional discussion of tasting differences that appear to be genetic. The majority of the popular find canola oil very close to flavorless. There is a sizable minority who find canola oil to have a flavor or aftertaste that they describe as "fishy" or "rancide". Every so often one of them uses the word ammonia. My best guess is you are in the group that has the gene that makes canola oil taste fishy/rancid/ammonia. If you recently started using canola and this is the first time you've used so much of it think back to any slightly off flavors you've gotten from using it. There's little down side to not using canola oil any more. It's cheap but so is peanut oil, corn oil and "vegitable oil" which is usually soy oil. I think I'll try olive oil and, in another batch, "cleared" butter (I don't know the proper english term: I want to talk about the butter from wich the protein and water has been removed) Agreed. Using other oils, especially ones known for good but subtle flavors, is a good plan for you at this point. The terms are "clarified" butter or ghee. I suggest switching to another oil in this recipe then in a couple of months making something else with lots of canola and see if that also has the fishy/rancid/ammonia flavor. If it does celebrate the fact that canola oil is cheap by feeding it to the soil out in your garden or just trash it. Temperature seems to matter a lot for the people who report that flavor from canola. Cold uses have far less of it. Cooked uses intensify it all the way up to the smoke point when they report it as very nasty. There are several common foods where genetics determine if you can taste them. I find avocados flavorless green crayons. I don't mind them I just don't get the point why folks bother eating something flavorless. My wife loves them. The answer to my puzzlement is those folks don't find them flavorless. I think asparagus is delicious and the smell is extremely obvious in my urine within an hour of eating them. I know folks who think asparagus is nearly flavorless and they can't smell it later. I find paprika not hot. I remember one time years ago I had a friend over at dinner when I made a stew that I colored with paprika because I liked the tiny little flavor in addition to the nice color. It was like I was trying to blow his head off when my friend tasted the first bite. He told me folks wtih at least one quarter Hungarian blood find paprika hot. My wife and I are in the no flavor school for canola oil. My mother-in-law was in the rancid school for canola. She complained about it so we stopped using it. Once she died we switched back to using it again. |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
Hueyduck wrote:
Bill O'Meally a écrit : I did not like the texture the first time I made it, so I substituted some wheat protein isolate for some of the flax meal. This added protein allowed me to cut back on the eggs. Here's the recipe with my changes. - Isn't wheat protein simply... gluten? ) In that case, I have some, and I might try your recipie. Products with wheat protein vary from "protein isolate" that's as close to 100% as inexpensive refinement methods can get it, down to "high protein flour" that is milled to increase the parts of the seed that have the protein. When milling wheat one option is to separate it into a high protein part and a low protein part. The low protein part is "cake flour" or "pastry flour" that bakes up more fluffy so it gets used in deserts. The high protein part still has a low percentage of protein compared to isolate. It's used in baking to make bread because of its higher relative gluten content. Anyways, since the flax is there to add fiber and we're talking a protein substitute for the flour, a wide range of products are likely to work to produce an okay bread. |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 14:52:16 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote: There are several common foods where genetics determine if you can taste them. I find avocados flavorless green crayons. I don't mind them I just don't get the point why folks bother eating something flavorless. My wife loves them. The answer to my puzzlement is those folks don't find them flavorless. I think asparagus is delicious and the smell is extremely obvious in my urine within an hour of eating them. I know folks who think asparagus is nearly flavorless and they can't smell it later. I have the "asparagus gene"too. To me it has a rich flavor and when I eat asparagus it makes my urine smell very strong. People used to tell me I was crazy when I'd mention it, and it was only a few years ago that I found out it was genetic and that only a certain % of the population has it. --- Peter |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
Doug Freyburger a écrit :
Hueyduck wrote: Bill O'Meally a écrit : • 1/3 cup oil out of curiosity, wich one do you use? I tried refined canola (not the raw organic stuff, wich couldnot be cooked, but the refined canola oil, wich supports 180°C/350°F without a problem. That's what I thought of in your original post. On foodie groups there is occasional discussion of tasting differences that appear to be genetic. The majority of the popular find canola oil very close to flavorless. There is a sizable minority who find canola oil to have a flavor or aftertaste that they describe as "fishy" or "rancide". Every so often one of them uses the word ammonia. My best guess is you are in the group that has the gene that makes canola oil taste fishy/rancid/ammonia. - It could be but it is not what I'm bothered with The smell was the same with sunflower oil when I first made the recipie quite a long time ago). And btw: the fishy I can really identify this "egg+baking powder" reaction smell. Btw, fish scented canola oil should not be eaten (for either who can smell it or not). I understand that some may be more sensible to this scent, but there is no eatable oil with a rancid smell. ANd to make rancid oil, you only have to put canola oil into permanent lightning. I involuntarily tested it for you and it works: rancid oil in a few month. Since I keep the bottles in a cabinet, the rancid smell never hits before I finish the bottle. And I don't think I'm in the fishy-smelling group for canola, because I often use it to cook without any problem. I also made my "fried green string beans" with canola oil, and it is quite good. I just have to watch the temperature so that it doesn't go further than 180°C/350°F. I also can have raw canola oil (the one that smells the most, wich is quite thick and golden colored) with no problem I use it in gratted carrots, along with olive oil, salt and raw onion rings, all mixed mell= very good alternative to gratted the classical "carrots+vinaigrette". - If you recently started using canola and this is the first time you've used so much of it think back to any slightly off flavors you've gotten from using it. There's little down side to not using canola oil any more. It's cheap but so is peanut oil, corn oil and "vegitable oil" which is usually soy oil. - Omega 3 content is not negligible, even in the refined sort. It was the reason I used it. Otherwise, I would have gone "olive". - I think I'll try olive oil and, in another batch, "cleared" butter (I don't know the proper english term: I want to talk about the butter from wich the protein and water has been removed) Agreed. Using other oils, especially ones known for good but subtle flavors, is a good plan for you at this point. The terms are "clarified" butter or ghee. "Ghee"! I Knew that, thanks. I just discovered how easy it is to make, and it is very nice to be able to cook butter without the fear of having the unpleasant "burnt butter" smell as soon as the preparation gets too hot. - There are several common foods where genetics determine if you can taste them. I find avocados flavorless green crayons. I don't mind them I just don't get the point why folks bother eating something flavorless. - The taste is not very strong, but I love it. Without the taste, I would not eat them. - I remember one time years ago I had a friend over at dinner when I made a stew that I colored with paprika because I liked the tiny little flavor in addition to the nice color. It was like I was trying to blow his head off when my friend tasted the first bite. He told me folks wtih at least one quarter Hungarian blood find paprika hot. - Really, I'm discovering this genetic stuff. I'm like you on this one: paprika is not hot at all, to me. - My wife and I are in the no flavor school for canola oil. My mother-in-law was in the rancid school for canola. She complained about it so we stopped using it. Once she died we switched back to using it again. - There's one thing with canola oil I can say: a canola oil that has smoked smells like the devil trying to make donuts for the first time. It happened to me once and the smell is... not very strong, but so baaaad. It smels like cancer. That's what I say when I smell burned teflon, for instance. Thx for your remarks, Doug. Huey |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
There's a lot of positive talk about coconut oil, it has a nice tolerance
for high temperatures. In cold weather it is a solid, in the summer it will be a liquid if left out of the fridge. I find it much less obvious in things than the taste of olive oil. I have been using it in cooking. On the asparagus, I think it tastes great but have never observed the urine smell from it. Paprika, there are different kinds of paprika, hot and not hot. I don't doubt the remarks about differences in tasting it but there also is a difference in typesl. |
#9
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
In article ,
Hueyduck wrote: Hi everyone (hi me), I'm going to poke the group with a low-carb topic to see if there is still life somewhere in here So, I think many of you make the "flax meal foccacia bread". I never recall why I never make more that what I do, and each time, I recall the reaseon when eating it: I'm not so found of the ammonia smell. You know, the smell that you get when too much egg encounters too much baking powder. Yerk.... So, is there a trick to avoid this? I wan't believe that all the people who love this recipie do not feel the dead fish fragrance (I'm exagerating, but it gets a good deal of concentration not to focus on it). THx for your advice, Huey Just a wild guess, Huey, but the proteins are amino acids that contain NH3 (ammonia) groups. These might be dislodged by the carbonate (CO3). Below, Bill O'Meally suggests replacing some of the flax meal with wheat protein, but ostensibly flax seeds (meal) are used to raise omega-3 proteins. (If it is for lowering cholesterol you'd be better off with oat bran or psyllium seed husks.) It is presumed that hunter-gatherers had a 1 to 1 ratio of omega-3s and omega-6s, whereas today it is about 1 to 10. This probably isn't a big deal because the oxygen and the heat will destroy most of the omega-3s anyway. ---- The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...als/dp/0143038 583/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1 (Available at a library near you, as long as they remain open.) pg. 268 - 269 One of the most important yet unnoticed changes to the human diet in modern times has been in the ratio between omega-3 and omega-6, the other essential fatty acid in our food. Omega-6 is produced in the seeds of plants; omega-3 in the leaves. As the name indicates, both kinds of fat are essential, but problems arise when they fall out of balance. (In fact, there's research to suggest that the ratio of these fats in our diet may be more important than the amounts.) Too high a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 can contribute to heart disease, probably because omega-6 helps blood clot, while omega-3 helps it flow. (Omega-6 is an inflammatory; omega-3 an anti-innammatory.) As our diet‹and the diet of the animals we eat‹shifted from one based on green plants to one based on grain (from grass to corn), the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 has gone from roughly one to one (in the diet of hunter-gatherers) to more than ten to one. (The process of hydrogenadng oil also eliminates omega-3s.) We may one day come to regard this shift as one of the most deleterious dietary changes wrought by the industrialization of our food chain. It was a change we never noticed, since the importance of omega-3s was not recognized until the 1970s. As in the case of our imperfect knowledge of soil, the limits of our knowledge of nutrition have obscured what the industrialization of the food chain is doing to our health. But changes in the composition of fats in our diet may account for many of the diseases of civilization‹cardiac, diabetes, obesity, etc.‹that have long been linked to modern eating habits, as well as for learning and behavioral problems in children and depression in adults. Research in this area promises to turn a lot of conventional nutritional thinking on its head. It suggests, for example, that the problem with eating red meat‹long associated with cardiovascular disease‹ may owe less to the animal in question than to that animal's diet. (This might explain why there are hunter-gatherer populations today who eat far more red meat than we do without suffering the cardiovascular consequences.) These days farmed salmon are being fed like feedlot cattle, on grain, with the predictable result that their omega- 3 levels fall well below those of wild fish. (Wild fish have especially high levels of omega-3 because the fat concentrates as it moves up the food chain from the algae and phytoplankton that create it.) Conventional nutritional wisdom holds that salmon is automatically better for us than beef, but that judgment assumes the beef has been grain fed and the salmon krill fed; if the steer is fattened on grass and the salmon on grain, we might actually be better off eating the beef. (Grass-finished beef has a two-to-one ratio of omega-6 to -3 compared to more than ten to one in corn-fed beef.) The species of animal you eat may matter less than what the animal you're eating has itself eaten. ---- Bush's 3rd term: Obama If you like weekends (8 hr./day & 40 hr./week), then thank a labor union. They paid for it in blood. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair Jobs not Wars === -- - Billy Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron. - Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953 http://wn.com/black_panther_party http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug |
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Ammonia smell in flax meal foccacia bread
Billy a écrit :
In article , Just a wild guess, Huey, but the proteins are amino acids that contain NH3 (ammonia) groups. These might be dislodged by the carbonate (CO3). - True. And since proteins in eggs are in the white part, I might try and withdraw a whit or two. Less baking powder too. And probably, I will add a tablespoon of gluten to make up for the egg whites ( a bit like you took back one egg and added wheat protein). - Below, Bill O'Meally suggests replacing some of the flax meal with wheat protein, but ostensibly flax seeds (meal) are used to raise omega-3 proteins. (If it is for lowering cholesterol you'd be better off with oat bran or psyllium seed husks.) - Well, it's fatty, it's full of omega 3, and full of fiber. Can't be bad for cholesterol ratio, right? I don't aim for a particular benefit, though. Only to have a recipie that fits a LC diet. - It is presumed that hunter-gatherers had a 1 to 1 ratio of omega-3s and omega-6s, whereas today it is about 1 to 10. This probably isn't a big deal because the oxygen and the heat will destroy most of the omega-3s anyway. - Surprisingly, this is not true at all. He http://www.flaxhealth.com/storage.htm Well, it's on the "golden valley" site. True. But they quote sources and scientific ones too. But I must admit I was quite surprised. to make it short: "baking ha(s) no effect on the bioavailability of flaxseed fatty acids." Great, right? ---- The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...als/dp/0143038 583/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1 (Available at a library near you, as long as they remain open.) pg. 268 - 269 (...) (Omega-6 is an inflammatory; omega-3 an anti-innammatory.) - I read that recently. This is quite a piece of information, I think. For instance, it could lead people with arthritis to avoid sunflower oil wich is all omega6. And how many inflamatory disease are being fed by sunflower oil, right now? (well I guess some could argue that omega 3 could be dangerous to people with auto-imune disease...) (...) But changes in the composition of fats in our diet may account for many of the diseases of civilization‹cardiac, diabetes, obesity, etc.‹that have long been linked to modern eating habits, as well as for learning and behavioral problems in children and depression in adults. - I instinctively believe this, really. Bush's 3rd term: Obama But are any of them Low-Carb enough to be on topic? ;-)) Have a nice evening. HUey |
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