Study:High protein intake sustains weight maintenance after body weight loss in humans

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:14:48 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

:: I don't think it works for URL's that wrap. You get the same
:: problem.

that's what its for (supposedly). Did you try it?

Doesn't work in Agent when the line wraps.

:: It's my understanding that tinyurl does not retire any of its URLs.
:: Has that changed?

It's my understanding that they do. Is that not true?

From the website: " By entering in a URL in the text field below, we
will create a tiny URL that will not break in email postings and never
expires."

Roger,

Eating more calories is not the only reason for fast weight gain after
ending a low carb diet.

High carbs after a low carb diet push blood sugar up. This causes insulin
spiking, and the high levels of insulin cause fat to be deposited in the
cells.

Rereading Bernstein this week, I noted that he says that even when people
are extremely insulin resistant and their insulin in not pushing glucose
into cells, it is still very actively turning circulating circulating
triglycerides into fat. On a low carb diet, circulating triglycerides are
also very low. But as soon as you eat more carbs, you also start producing
much higher amounts of triglyceride.

When you do brief carb-ups as you do, in conjunction with a lot of exercise,
you probably burn off most of the excess carb and the insulin builds muscle,
which is your goal. But carb up day after day after day and the
insulin/triglyceride thing will start catching up with you.


-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Jenny wrote:
:: Roger,
::
:: Interesting sounding, but the description of the study made it
:: unclear to me what was really happening.

Interesting, period.

::
:: How did they add the extra protein? Were they eating packaged foods
:: supplied by the study as happens in some nutritional studies? Were
:: they eating whatever they wanted?

That's because you only read the abstract. You need to click on the link
for the PDF to get the full paper.

::
:: The original diet is described only as "extremely low calorie" with
:: no indication of the nutritional breakdown and whether it lead to
:: cannibalisation of the dieter's own body protein. The diet was also
:: very short, only a couple weeks.

Read the paper.....the diet was Modifast and fruits and Veggies....the aim
was a loss of 4kg over 4 weeks (more than a couple).

::
:: Generalizing from this study to what happens when low carbers go off
:: their diet, might be a mistake.

No one has generalized....it is an interesting study since it seems to
indicate that increased protein intake after dieting impacts satiety and
weight retain...that ought to be interesting anyone wanting to lose weight
and maintain that weight loss, whether there is a take-home message of
practical value has not been addressed, afaik.

:: The effect of eating a lot of carbohydrate after a long period of
:: carb restriction might result in a much bigger weight gain no matter
:: how much protein intake accompanies it. We could only know if a
:: study was done with long term (not 3 week) low carb dieters.

Eating a lot of carbs will cause quick water weight gain....and if LC
dieters return to eating lots of carbs over the long term, and as a result
return to eating excessive amounts of calories, they will regain weight.
Eating lots of carbs is the obvious path to failure for most people who
are
able lose well on LC. In my mind, there are no questions about that. And
we
knew that before the results of this study became known.

Also, what is done in this study is not something that can be really
hoisted
off onto the general LCing public, from what I can tell. They can't be
depended on to have a clue as to how to properly implement this kind of
thing. What should be paid attention to is what the general results are
relative to this one macro-nutritient. Interesting.

::
:: -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.2.
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and
:: more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm
::
::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: This seems interesting....
:::
:::
::

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPa...v28/n1/abs/080
::: 2461a.html&dynoptions=doi1073506590

Jenny wrote:
:: Roger,
::
:: Eating more calories is not the only reason for fast weight gain
:: after ending a low carb diet.
::

Well, eating excessive calories generally leads to weight gain. Are you
excluding this situation?

:: High carbs after a low carb diet push blood sugar up. This causes
:: insulin spiking, and the high levels of insulin cause fat to be
:: deposited in the cells.

That's mainly what I'm talking about -- lot of carbs on a regular basis has
to lead to trouble. Not questoin.

::
:: Rereading Bernstein this week, I noted that he says that even when
:: people are extremely insulin resistant and their insulin in not
:: pushing glucose into cells, it is still very actively turning
:: circulating circulating triglycerides into fat. On a low carb diet,
:: circulating triglycerides are also very low. But as soon as you eat
:: more carbs, you also start producing much higher amounts of
:: triglyceride.
::
:: When you do brief carb-ups as you do, in conjunction with a lot of
:: exercise, you probably burn off most of the excess carb and the
:: insulin builds muscle, which is your goal. But carb up day after day
:: after day and the insulin/triglyceride thing will start catching up
:: with you.

For the extremely insulin resistant, yes (which is one reason for resistance
training, since it is well known to lower insulin resistance). However, I'm
not convinced that the average person couldn't switch from LC to LF with
calorie restriction, and not gain more than the expected water weight. If
you continually undereat calories, I don't see how you can gain fat. While
your body may be making fat from triglyerides during a period of time, it
will also burn that to meet energy demands that aren't met by diet.
::
::
:: -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.2.
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and
:: more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm
::
::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: Jenny wrote:
::::: Roger,
:::::
::::: Interesting sounding, but the description of the study made it
::::: unclear to me what was really happening.
:::
::: Interesting, period.
:::
:::::
::::: How did they add the extra protein? Were they eating packaged
::::: foods supplied by the study as happens in some nutritional
::::: studies? Were they eating whatever they wanted?
:::
::: That's because you only read the abstract. You need to click on
::: the link for the PDF to get the full paper.
:::
:::::
::::: The original diet is described only as "extremely low calorie"
::::: with no indication of the nutritional breakdown and whether it
::::: lead to cannibalisation of the dieter's own body protein. The
::::: diet was also very short, only a couple weeks.
:::
::: Read the paper.....the diet was Modifast and fruits and
::: Veggies....the aim was a loss of 4kg over 4 weeks (more than a
::: couple).
:::
:::::
::::: Generalizing from this study to what happens when low carbers go
::::: off their diet, might be a mistake.
:::
::: No one has generalized....it is an interesting study since it seems
::: to indicate that increased protein intake after dieting impacts
::: satiety and weight retain...that ought to be interesting anyone
::: wanting to lose weight and maintain that weight loss, whether there
::: is a take-home message of practical value has not been addressed,
::: afaik.
:::
::::: The effect of eating a lot of carbohydrate after a long period of
::::: carb restriction might result in a much bigger weight gain no
::::: matter how much protein intake accompanies it. We could only
::::: know if a study was done with long term (not 3 week) low carb
::::: dieters.
:::
::: Eating a lot of carbs will cause quick water weight gain....and if
::: LC dieters return to eating lots of carbs over the long term, and
::: as a result return to eating excessive amounts of calories, they
::: will regain weight. Eating lots of carbs is the obvious path to
::: failure for most people who are able lose well on LC. In my mind,
::: there are no questions about that. And we knew that before the
::: results of this study became known.
:::
::: Also, what is done in this study is not something that can be
::: really hoisted off onto the general LCing public, from what I can
::: tell. They can't be depended on to have a clue as to how to
::: properly implement this kind of thing. What should be paid
::: attention to is what the general results are relative to this one
::: macro-nutritient. Interesting.
:::
:::::
::::: -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2
::::: diabetes, hba1c 5.2.
::::: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
:::::
::::: Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes
::::: and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
:::::
::::: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
::::: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
::::: ...
:::::: This seems interesting....
::::::
::::::
:::::
:::
::
http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPa...v28/n1/abs/080
:::::: 2461a.html&dynoptions=doi1073506590

Roger,

As you know, I agree with you totally; about calories being the major
issue--especially for people with reasonable insulin resistance.

But the problem I see is that we're talking about people who have stopped a
diet. Let's say that they have near normal metabolisms, like I did when I
was younger. If they consume the exact same number of calories they ate
while on the diet, once they go off it, they may not gain assuming they can
burn off the carb intake.

But how many people who go off a low carb diet are going to eat the same
amount of calories? Especially since having reached goal they're going to
need a whole lot less calories to maintain current weight than they did
before the diet, but their metabolisms are getting into "time to stock up
for the next famine" mode that follows relaxing any diet. .

And assuming they bump their daily carbs up to just 150-- much less than a
typical US diet. That's 600 calories of carb that has to be burnt off or it
does turn into triglyceride. That's a lot of exercise. There is still going
to be a lot more triglyceride coming in. If they supplement with 50 grams of
protein as the study suggests, well, that's a bunch more calories coming in
too.

Finally, the biggest problem I've seen for people coming off a low carb diet
is that they have learned to eat fat but when they up the carbs, they may
continue to eat more fat. Fat in the presence of carbs is instant weight
regain. And all of the other health benefits of low carbing will evaporate
in a few months with a return to eating a higher carb diet too.

Now if a person is young and healthy, they may get away with it. I used to
get by with an annual no bread, dessert, or potatos diet. BUT, though my
weight stayed normal, my blood sugar (in retrospect) did not--signalled by
contstant urinary tract and yeast infections and high cholesterol.

So it seems like the whole idea of "ending" a low carb diet is
problematical. We talk glibly about this being a "WOE" but if I had a buck
for every January dieter who thinks that once he or she looks good in that
bikini they can reintroduce a bunch of carbs back into their diet, I would
be looking to get pretty rich.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Jenny wrote:
:: Roger,
::
:: Eating more calories is not the only reason for fast weight gain
:: after ending a low carb diet.
::

Well, eating excessive calories generally leads to weight gain. Are you
excluding this situation?

:: High carbs after a low carb diet push blood sugar up. This causes
:: insulin spiking, and the high levels of insulin cause fat to be
:: deposited in the cells.

That's mainly what I'm talking about -- lot of carbs on a regular basis
has
to lead to trouble. Not questoin.

::
:: Rereading Bernstein this week, I noted that he says that even when
:: people are extremely insulin resistant and their insulin in not
:: pushing glucose into cells, it is still very actively turning
:: circulating circulating triglycerides into fat. On a low carb diet,
:: circulating triglycerides are also very low. But as soon as you eat
:: more carbs, you also start producing much higher amounts of
:: triglyceride.
::
:: When you do brief carb-ups as you do, in conjunction with a lot of
:: exercise, you probably burn off most of the excess carb and the
:: insulin builds muscle, which is your goal. But carb up day after day
:: after day and the insulin/triglyceride thing will start catching up
:: with you.

For the extremely insulin resistant, yes (which is one reason for
resistance
training, since it is well known to lower insulin resistance). However,
I'm
not convinced that the average person couldn't switch from LC to LF with
calorie restriction, and not gain more than the expected water weight. If
you continually undereat calories, I don't see how you can gain fat. While
your body may be making fat from triglyerides during a period of time, it
will also burn that to meet energy demands that aren't met by diet.
::
::
:: -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.2.
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and
:: more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm
::
::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: Jenny wrote:
::::: Roger,
:::::
::::: Interesting sounding, but the description of the study made it
::::: unclear to me what was really happening.
:::
::: Interesting, period.
:::
:::::
::::: How did they add the extra protein? Were they eating packaged
::::: foods supplied by the study as happens in some nutritional
::::: studies? Were they eating whatever they wanted?
:::
::: That's because you only read the abstract. You need to click on
::: the link for the PDF to get the full paper.
:::
:::::
::::: The original diet is described only as "extremely low calorie"
::::: with no indication of the nutritional breakdown and whether it
::::: lead to cannibalisation of the dieter's own body protein. The
::::: diet was also very short, only a couple weeks.
:::
::: Read the paper.....the diet was Modifast and fruits and
::: Veggies....the aim was a loss of 4kg over 4 weeks (more than a
::: couple).
:::
:::::
::::: Generalizing from this study to what happens when low carbers go
::::: off their diet, might be a mistake.
:::
::: No one has generalized....it is an interesting study since it seems
::: to indicate that increased protein intake after dieting impacts
::: satiety and weight retain...that ought to be interesting anyone
::: wanting to lose weight and maintain that weight loss, whether there
::: is a take-home message of practical value has not been addressed,
::: afaik.
:::
::::: The effect of eating a lot of carbohydrate after a long period of
::::: carb restriction might result in a much bigger weight gain no
::::: matter how much protein intake accompanies it. We could only
::::: know if a study was done with long term (not 3 week) low carb
::::: dieters.
:::
::: Eating a lot of carbs will cause quick water weight gain....and if
::: LC dieters return to eating lots of carbs over the long term, and
::: as a result return to eating excessive amounts of calories, they
::: will regain weight. Eating lots of carbs is the obvious path to
::: failure for most people who are able lose well on LC. In my mind,
::: there are no questions about that. And we knew that before the
::: results of this study became known.
:::
::: Also, what is done in this study is not something that can be
::: really hoisted off onto the general LCing public, from what I can
::: tell. They can't be depended on to have a clue as to how to
::: properly implement this kind of thing. What should be paid
::: attention to is what the general results are relative to this one
::: macro-nutritient. Interesting.
:::
:::::
::::: -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2
::::: diabetes, hba1c 5.2.
::::: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
:::::
::::: Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes
::::: and more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
:::::
::::: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
::::: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
::::: ...
:::::: This seems interesting....
::::::
::::::
:::::
:::
::

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPa...v28/n1/abs/080
:::::: 2461a.html&dynoptions=doi1073506590

Roger Zoul wrote:

it is an interesting study since it seems to
indicate that increased protein intake after dieting impacts satiety and
weight retain...that ought to be interesting anyone wanting to lose weight
and maintain that weight loss, whether there is a take-home message of
practical value has not been addressed, afaik.

Steping straight into Atkins: The loss phases are high fat medium protein.
For the exact same total calories the maintenance phase can be medium fat
and high protein. Per the study both make you feel full.

Eating a lot of carbs will cause quick water weight gain....and if LC
dieters return to eating lots of carbs over the long term, and as a result
return to eating excessive amounts of calories, they will regain weight.

Right. Stay at the same total calories, move your carbs up above your
CCLM, start to store new fat.

Doug,

Protein might make you feel full. It doesn't have that effect on everyone.
In my body, excess protein turns into glucose via gluconeogenesis and causes
an insulin spike and an eventual reactive blood sugar low.

If you haven't looked at the insulin index, it makes interesting reading.
You can see that some protein foods kick off a surprisingly strong insulin
response. Until I read this article I did not understand why I had an
ongoing problem with low blood sugar while low carbing.
http://www.zonehome.com/zlib0025.htm

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
om...
Roger Zoul wrote:

it is an interesting study since it seems to
indicate that increased protein intake after dieting impacts satiety and
weight retain...that ought to be interesting anyone wanting to lose
weight
and maintain that weight loss, whether there is a take-home message of
practical value has not been addressed, afaik.

Steping straight into Atkins: The loss phases are high fat medium protein.
For the exact same total calories the maintenance phase can be medium fat
and high protein. Per the study both make you feel full.

Eating a lot of carbs will cause quick water weight gain....and if LC
dieters return to eating lots of carbs over the long term, and as a
result
return to eating excessive amounts of calories, they will regain weight.

Right. Stay at the same total calories, move your carbs up above your
CCLM, start to store new fat.

Jenny wrote:
:: Doug,
::
:: Protein might make you feel full. It doesn't have that effect on
:: everyone. In my body, excess protein turns into glucose via
:: gluconeogenesis and causes an insulin spike and an eventual reactive
:: blood sugar low.

Jenny -- saying proten makes one feel full and saying excess protein
whatever aren't the same thing.

Note that the study never mentioned whether the protein intake was in
excess. Hence, what you're saying here is meaningless relative to the
results of that study.

::
:: If you haven't looked at the insulin index, it makes interesting
:: reading. You can see that some protein foods kick off a surprisingly
:: strong insulin response. Until I read this article I did not
:: understand why I had an ongoing problem with low blood sugar while
:: low carbing. http://www.zonehome.com/zlib0025.htm

Why you find this surprising is surprising. Foods need to have some insulin
response...if they didn't, then their nutrients wouldn't be pushed into the
cells to be used.

Insulin is not the death hormone.

::
:: -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.2.
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and
:: more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm
::
::
::
:: "Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
:: om...
::: Roger Zoul wrote:
::::
:::: it is an interesting study since it seems to
:::: indicate that increased protein intake after dieting impacts
:::: satiety and weight retain...that ought to be interesting anyone
:::: wanting to lose weight and maintain that weight loss, whether
:::: there is a take-home message of practical value has not been
:::: addressed, afaik.
:::
::: Steping straight into Atkins: The loss phases are high fat medium
::: protein. For the exact same total calories the maintenance phase
::: can be medium fat and high protein. Per the study both make you
::: feel full.
:::
:::: Eating a lot of carbs will cause quick water weight gain....and if
:::: LC dieters return to eating lots of carbs over the long term, and
:::: as a result return to eating excessive amounts of calories, they
:::: will regain weight.
:::
::: Right. Stay at the same total calories, move your carbs up above
::: your CCLM, start to store new fat.

Roger,

Insulin isn't the death hormone, however it is the fat depositing ,
hunger-causing hormone.

My third year of low carbing was a real nightmare with continual low blood
sugar attacks. I couldn't figure out what was going on because the lower my
carbs went, the worse I felt. The problem back then was that I was still
doing the old "eat all the protein you want" style low carb diet filled with
the 12 oz portions of meat. Since I wasn't eating carbs, the insulin that
generated--higher than needed for metabolising the protein because of
insulin resistance, I guess--had nothing to do but push my blood sugar down.
Which it did to the point where I felt like I was "hitting the wall" all the
time.

It's worth noting that this problem did not develop until the third year of
continous low carbing. Since there are zilch studies of people at that stage
we really don't know what physiological changes occur. Whatever they were,
they sucked, and I felt so much better when I stopped low carbing and pushed
my blood sugar back up that I figured I just had to live with the weight
gain and higher blood sugars because I never again wanted to feel that
sickly. I sure hope that when I hit year three time that doesn't happen.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Jenny wrote:
:: Doug,
::
:: Protein might make you feel full. It doesn't have that effect on
:: everyone. In my body, excess protein turns into glucose via
:: gluconeogenesis and causes an insulin spike and an eventual reactive
:: blood sugar low.

Jenny -- saying proten makes one feel full and saying excess protein
whatever aren't the same thing.

Note that the study never mentioned whether the protein intake was in
excess. Hence, what you're saying here is meaningless relative to the
results of that study.

::
:: If you haven't looked at the insulin index, it makes interesting
:: reading. You can see that some protein foods kick off a surprisingly
:: strong insulin response. Until I read this article I did not
:: understand why I had an ongoing problem with low blood sugar while
:: low carbing. http://www.zonehome.com/zlib0025.htm

Why you find this surprising is surprising. Foods need to have some
insulin
response...if they didn't, then their nutrients wouldn't be pushed into
the
cells to be used.

Insulin is not the death hormone.

::
:: -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.2.
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes and
:: more at http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm
::
::
::
:: "Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
:: om...
::: Roger Zoul wrote:
::::
:::: it is an interesting study since it seems to
:::: indicate that increased protein intake after dieting impacts
:::: satiety and weight retain...that ought to be interesting anyone
:::: wanting to lose weight and maintain that weight loss, whether
:::: there is a take-home message of practical value has not been
:::: addressed, afaik.
:::
::: Steping straight into Atkins: The loss phases are high fat medium
::: protein. For the exact same total calories the maintenance phase
::: can be medium fat and high protein. Per the study both make you
::: feel full.
:::
:::: Eating a lot of carbs will cause quick water weight gain....and if
:::: LC dieters return to eating lots of carbs over the long term, and
:::: as a result return to eating excessive amounts of calories, they
:::: will regain weight.
:::
::: Right. Stay at the same total calories, move your carbs up above
::: your CCLM, start to store new fat.

Jenny wrote:

Protein might make you feel full. It doesn't have that effect on everyone.

The same can be said of fat, carbs and even water.

One of the reasons few folks are hungry on Atkins after the first few
days is ketosis means the liver is empty of stored carbs. Carb cravings
appear when the liver is partially full but disappear when it is either
completely full or completely empty. The completely empty part creates
a loophole of sorts.

The other reason few folks are hungry on Atkins is it is a high fat plan.
Fat turns down the appetite.

In my body, excess protein turns into glucose via gluconeogenesis and causes
an insulin spike and an eventual reactive blood sugar low.

So now you now your body's own unique level for protein. You have learned
the hard way by experiment what "excess" is for you. So an amount that is
"high" for you may well be low for me. Such is life in a world where
everyone is different. Good to here you've worked out this way you are
out on the bell shaped curve of statics.

Doug wrote:
Carb cravings appear when the liver is partially full but disappear when it
is either
completely full or completely empty. The completely empty part creates
a loophole of sorts.

Where do you get this? Can you point to some research (not the Atkins book
which is extremely scanty on anything that backs up the claims, even the
ones that are true.)

In my experience, carb cravings disappear when blood sugar is maintained at
a level that does not vary up and down by more than a very small amount.
It's the movement of blood sugar up or down that tends to be experienced by
my brain, at least, as hunger. When it's stable, I can completely forget
about food. I've lived for months in a partially refilled state (with that
two pounds I gain when I cross the mid-carb threshhold, but still way under
the 5 lbs I gain when I really refill.) and I haven't had problems with
cravings except when I do something that gets my blood sugar (or insulin)
riled up.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. At goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.2.
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Low carb facts and figures, my weight-loss photos, tips, recipes,
strategies for dealing with diabetes and more at
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm



"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
om...
Jenny wrote:

Protein might make you feel full. It doesn't have that effect on
everyone.

The same can be said of fat, carbs and even water.

One of the reasons few folks are hungry on Atkins after the first few
days is ketosis means the liver is empty of stored carbs. Carb cravings
appear when the liver is partially full but disappear when it is either
completely full or completely empty. The completely empty part creates
a loophole of sorts.

The other reason few folks are hungry on Atkins is it is a high fat plan.
Fat turns down the appetite.

In my body, excess protein turns into glucose via gluconeogenesis and
causes
an insulin spike and an eventual reactive blood sugar low.

So now you now your body's own unique level for protein. You have learned
the hard way by experiment what "excess" is for you. So an amount that is
"high" for you may well be low for me. Such is life in a world where
everyone is different. Good to here you've worked out this way you are
out on the bell shaped curve of statics.