Exercise? Cardio or Weights?

On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:23:51 GMT, curt wrote:

[cut]

I just can't buy that lifting does much for cardiovascular fitness. I
lift
and do cardio workouts and that is best for me, but I am glad I don't
just
lift. I ran on the treadmill all this winter and swam as well. I got
on a
bicycle and worked my way up to 60 miles in only a few rides and had
plenty
left in my tank. If I just lifted, I could have never done that. I
get my
HR up to over 170 running and that comes in handy riding a bike here in
Pittsburgh where hills are the norm.

To me, lifting is a great way to tone, increase strength and look better,
but it does very little for cardiovascular fitness. IMHO,
Curt



It depends how you lift. I lift with very little rest between sets in a
superset. So, I'll do four sets (squats, leg curls, calf raises, and
"reverse" calf raises) in a few minutes. However, I've worn my heart rate
monitor, and while lifting can get the HR relatively high, say even 160
bpm, the average HR is much higher on bike rides. But for providing a
base level of fitness, I find weightlifting to be very good.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Do you do it longer than 30 minutes, or just more than 5 days per week?

4-5 times a week I do 45 minutes on the elliptical cross-trainer (medium
resistance, high ramp angle) if I'm doing my strength training that day too. (3
days a week) I'll do an hour if I'm not. And I play racquetball with my husband
1-2 times a week (that's ALL he does for exercise, with a little basketball)

Even
when I was 30 pounds heavier and could never get an OUNCE off, that was all I
did The low-carbs got the pounds off for me; exercise, for me, just helps get
the heart rate up & is great for toning & a sense of general well-being.

Oh the exercise makes me feel great, but I know it's helping with my weight
loss too. Since I have way more than 30lbs to lose, I need every bit of help I
can get. I'm on my feet all day at work too, and it's fairly physical, that
sure never helped me lose anything before LC, LOL!

LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/202/140
& hubby- 6' 310/215/180

LCer09 wrote:
::: Overall, lifting weights is the best thing you can do for your
::: body. Cardio to a point is helpful, imo, but at some it becomes
::: better just to eat less.
::
:: Cardio is important for reasons other than weight loss. Making your
:: heart and lungs 'stronger' is always a good thing.

You can do that with weight training, and unless you do high intensity
intervals on cardio, improvements to heart and lungs don't continue for long
with endless cardio.

On Tue, 18 May 2004 09:27:44 -0400, Roger Zoul
wrote:

LCer09 wrote:
::: Overall, lifting weights is the best thing you can do for your
::: body. Cardio to a point is helpful, imo, but at some it becomes
::: better just to eat less.
::
:: Cardio is important for reasons other than weight loss. Making your
:: heart and lungs 'stronger' is always a good thing.

You can do that with weight training, and unless you do high intensity
intervals on cardio, improvements to heart and lungs don't continue for
long
with endless cardio.



Not to mention that having a stronger heart isn't necessarily good for
preventing heart disease. True, you lower your probability of heart
disease, but I can list off quite a few younger men who died of heart
disease when "young" (less than 55) and very fit. It's good for all
around health, but it doesn't prevent you from having heart disease.

--
Bob in CT
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curt wrote:
:: ...
:::::: curt wrote:
:::::::: This depends on what you want. If you want to get in shape,
:::::::: you will need to do cardio. Lifting weights really doesn't do
:::::::: much
:::::::: for being in shape. You can lift weights and be very out of
:::::::: shape as
:::::::: many find out when they walk up stairs or whatever.
::::::
:::::: You need to define terms, here, curt. One can very easily get "in
:::::: shape" lifting weights. They key is to control food intake to
:::::: lose bodyfat *while* lifting weights. I know several people are
:::::: are in very good shape but refuse to do any form of cardio.
:::::
::::: IMO, being in shape means you are fit. You can not get fit or
::::: cardiovascular in shape by lifting weights unless you do fast
::::: circuit training. If you don't get your heart rate up for an
::::: extended
::::: period of time you will not benefit in a cardiovascular sense.
::::: You can look like you are in shape with diet and weight lifting,
::::: but
::::: most of those guys are huffing and puffing going up a long flight
::::: of steps. I don't call that "in shape".. Lifting does very
::::: little in this category, but it can make you look great.
:::
::: Curt -- you must realize that your experience is not absolute.
::: There are people who, because they have little bodyfat and lots of
::: muscle, are fit and able to walk up stairs. They may not be
::: "bicycle fit" or "jogging fit" or "sprinting fit", because those
::: activities require specific training, but they are fit.
:::
::: Also, there is research that indicates that weight lifting, using
::: the right movements, can improve cardiovascular fitness. Moving
::: your heart rate up to high values for short periods of time and
::: then letting it drop, and then raising it again, will improve your
::: overall cardiovascular fitness. Several movements in the gym do
::: exactly that.
::
:: I just can't buy that lifting does much for cardiovascular fitness.
:: I lift and do cardio workouts and that is best for me, but I am glad
:: I don't just lift. I ran on the treadmill all this winter and swam
:: as well. I got on a bicycle and worked my way up to 60 miles in
:: only a few rides and had plenty left in my tank. If I just lifted,
:: I could have never done that.

How do you know? Remember, you've gotten your weight down to a good number.
Do you think you could have done that if you still weighed 250? (I think
that was your highest weight, right?) Think about this -- your muscles
produce the power that moves your body. As long as you get sufficient
oxygen, they can perform. Your heart will work less hard if your muscles
don't have to move as much weight.

:: I get my HR up to over 170 running
:: and that comes in handy riding a bike here in Pittsburgh where hills
:: are the norm.

Keep in mind that getting your HR up over 170 is no big deal. The question
is how much effort it takes to do that and how quickly you recover (your HR
returns to normal after effort). If you weighed 250, it would take much
less effort to get your HR up to that 170...if you weighed 350, you might
get it up there with just 3 steps.

But my point is that anything you do that forces your HR up and your lungs
to expand and contract will improve your cardiovasular ability. Weight
lifting included, provided you do it right (it is very possible to do lazy
weight lifting, btw, and get absolutely no benefit of any kind).

Take an example from cycling. All of the books I have say that riding hills
is the best to improve overall strength for riding -- going up the hill
raises HR while coming down lowers it (recovery time is important, too). So
hills do exactly the same thing that high-intensity interval training does,
and well as what weight lifting does (if done right). For a cyclist, it is
obviously more important to do hills than weights as weights don't challenge
the body as does riding, but that's true of any sport.

And in case this is not clear, I'm not saying there is no place for cardio.
I'm just staying there are more ways to improve fitness than cardio and one
doesn't need to do any cardio to lose weight, and I'm not saying don't do
any cardio, either. Personally, I think high-intensity interval training is
best once a person has spent some time working on endurance (the very
sedentary will need to do some steady cardio to build up enough of a base to
even consider anything high intesnity). Also, cardio is good as a means to
burn more energy, in case you can't eat less. But if you can eat less, then
you don't need to spend endless minutes on the dreadmill doing flat cardio.

::
:: To me, lifting is a great way to tone, increase strength and look
:: better, but it does very little for cardiovascular fitness. IMHO,
:: Curt

To me, lifting will not bring on improved "tone" if you don't lower bodyfat
since the fat will just ride over top of the muscle if you don't lose it.
And if you don't believe WT will improve cardiovasular fitness, then start
doing sets of fairly heavy deadlifts or squats, with short rest intervals.
The more you do that, the better your cardio fitness will get. Of course,
if you want to have optimal fitness for a given sport, you still need to
spend time doing that sport. But weight lifting can and will bring on
baseline improvements.

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message ...

This part is for Roger:
:: If it was me paying for a trainer, which I did for a year, several
:: years ago. I would go in 1/2 hour before my session with the
:: trainer to get at least 20 minutes of cardio in and then lift with
:: the trainer.

My pre-lifting cardio is only a 5-minute warm-up (per my trainer's
instructions). I then do 20 minutes cardio after I'm done with the
weights.

Cardio is really something you don't need a trainer
:: for. Lifting is something you will really benefit with a trainer.

I agree with you 100%.

:: They can spot you and teach you lots of different exercises.

And, showing you how to do them safely to avoid injury, and
effectively to target the muscles you're working.

You
:: will also be warmed up after your cardio and you will not waste time
:: that way warming up for the trainer.

Right.

You paid a trainer for a year? Why? IMO, you can learn most of what you
need from a book or a website, and the rest you can pick up using common
sense.

Curt, it sounds like you've never worked out with a trainer, or at
least a good one. Sure, you can read about what you're supposed to do
in a book, but to actually do it is an entirely different thing. I
just recently started working with a trainer, and I've never in my
life worked out as effectively (or safely) as I have with her. And, I
know that having her there to help (spot) with the final reps means
that I can move more weight than if I was going it alone. I don't have
her services every time I'm in the weight room (wish I did, but it
gets kind of pricey), but after a workout with her I know I've totally
and completely exhausted the muscles we just worked on without risk of
injury and with form that is effective for getting the results I'm
looking for. And, when I work alone, I know what I'm supposed to do,
where I'm supposed to feel it, etc.

And, I'm not sure your "common sense" will really be of much help in a
weight room environment. Many folks don't use correct form when
lifting, or are doing pointless exercises that are pretty ineffective.
You might be willing to risk injury, or to even waste time working
with weights in a less than productive fashion, but I'd suggest at
least a few PT sessions to see how to really make the most of a weight
room.

Best of luck to you with your independent study on weight training.
Let us know how that book works for you as a spotter, form checker,
encouragement provider, etc.

Lee

::
:: JMHO,
:: Curt

You paid a trainer for a year? Why? IMO, you can learn most of what you
need from a book or a website, and the rest you can pick up using common
sense.

I missed this. I was a competitive weight thrower and wanted to lift very
effectively. There is no real substitute for a good trainer. I have books
and did lots of research, but hands on training and a spotter to get
negative resistance is important if you want to go as big as I did at that
time.

Curt

You paid a trainer for a year? Why? IMO, you can learn most of what
you
need from a book or a website, and the rest you can pick up using common
sense.

Curt, it sounds like you've never worked out with a trainer, or at
least a good one. Sure, you can read about what you're supposed to do
in a book, but to actually do it is an entirely different thing. I
just recently started working with a trainer, and I've never in my
life worked out as effectively (or safely) as I have with her. And, I
know that having her there to help (spot) with the final reps means
that I can move more weight than if I was going it alone. I don't have
her services every time I'm in the weight room (wish I did, but it
gets kind of pricey), but after a workout with her I know I've totally
and completely exhausted the muscles we just worked on without risk of
injury and with form that is effective for getting the results I'm
looking for. And, when I work alone, I know what I'm supposed to do,
where I'm supposed to feel it, etc.

And, I'm not sure your "common sense" will really be of much help in a
weight room environment. Many folks don't use correct form when
lifting, or are doing pointless exercises that are pretty ineffective.
You might be willing to risk injury, or to even waste time working
with weights in a less than productive fashion, but I'd suggest at
least a few PT sessions to see how to really make the most of a weight
room.

Best of luck to you with your independent study on weight training.
Let us know how that book works for you as a spotter, form checker,
encouragement provider, etc.

Lee

Um, I didn't write what you are replying to. That was Roger replying to me
when I told him I had a personal trainer for a year. Not sure how you
thought I wrote that, but I don't really agree with not having a trainer.

Curt

On 18 May 2004 07:33:15 -0700, Lee wrote:

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...

This part is for Roger:
:: If it was me paying for a trainer, which I did for a year, several
:: years ago. I would go in 1/2 hour before my session with the
:: trainer to get at least 20 minutes of cardio in and then lift with
:: the trainer.

My pre-lifting cardio is only a 5-minute warm-up (per my trainer's
instructions). I then do 20 minutes cardio after I'm done with the
weights.

Cardio is really something you don't need a trainer
:: for. Lifting is something you will really benefit with a trainer.

I agree with you 100%.

:: They can spot you and teach you lots of different exercises.

And, showing you how to do them safely to avoid injury, and
effectively to target the muscles you're working.

You
:: will also be warmed up after your cardio and you will not waste time
:: that way warming up for the trainer.

Right.

You paid a trainer for a year? Why? IMO, you can learn most of what
you
need from a book or a website, and the rest you can pick up using common
sense.

Curt, it sounds like you've never worked out with a trainer, or at
least a good one. Sure, you can read about what you're supposed to do
in a book, but to actually do it is an entirely different thing. I
just recently started working with a trainer, and I've never in my
life worked out as effectively (or safely) as I have with her. And, I
know that having her there to help (spot) with the final reps means
that I can move more weight than if I was going it alone. I don't have
her services every time I'm in the weight room (wish I did, but it
gets kind of pricey), but after a workout with her I know I've totally
and completely exhausted the muscles we just worked on without risk of
injury and with form that is effective for getting the results I'm
looking for. And, when I work alone, I know what I'm supposed to do,
where I'm supposed to feel it, etc.

And, I'm not sure your "common sense" will really be of much help in a
weight room environment. Many folks don't use correct form when
lifting, or are doing pointless exercises that are pretty ineffective.
You might be willing to risk injury, or to even waste time working
with weights in a less than productive fashion, but I'd suggest at
least a few PT sessions to see how to really make the most of a weight
room.

Best of luck to you with your independent study on weight training.
Let us know how that book works for you as a spotter, form checker,
encouragement provider, etc.

Lee

::
:: JMHO,
:: Curt

Couldn't a friend do all those things? For free? Personally, I lift with
perfect form and know so many exercises that I don't get bored. I stay
away from movements where a spotter is recommended (for instance, no
military/behind the neck presses using bar weights -- I switch to dumbells
instead). I lift as heavy as I can without a spotter (and don't really
feel the need to have a spotter). But, I've been lifting weights for over
20 years, so I know my limitations. Also, I have been injured by doing
behind-the-neck presses and missing the latch (where you put the bar), so
spotters are important.

Having said all that, I wouldn't mind paying a trainer to help me
workout. No one works out as quickly as I do, so it's impossible to get
someone to workout with me. Also, there's no one doing the stuff I'm
doing (I work out my entire body at one shot), especially at the time I
work out (6am). And, people who do work out hard enough for me don't bike
also. But I have to say that I can think of so many more things to do
with $60-80 an hour that hiring a trainer will have to wait until I win
the lottery.

--
Bob in CT
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(dtk) wrote in message . com...
I can tell you though that the trainer will more than likely tell you
if you want to lose weight the cardio needs to be the most important
thing. However with atkins that isn't the case, but most of your run
of the mill trainers have never been enlightened on how low carb diets
work, and they'll just give you the run of the mill answers that
follow the low fat diets.

I train people at a local gym near me, however i stay away from people
trying to lose weight, i center more on people trying to go for brute
strength, and gain size, and those training for powerlifting, but i
can offer you some basic advice. Just keep in mind low rep weight
training makes you big and strong, & high rep weight training, and
cardio makes you lean and "healthy" looking. Just from seeing that
your a female, i doubt you wanna go for that big and strong look, so
your best bet would be a mix of medium to high rep weight training and
cardio.

When you meet with the trainer just keep in mind that trainers are
very knowlegable about the gym, but not always about diets. Most of
the time trainers have never had weight problems, their just your
typical gym rats who've taken the $500 exam so they can call themself
a "certified personal trainer".

this post is so ill-informed. women don't just "bulk up" from weights.
most men even have a hard time doing that. put down those pink
dummbells women and lift some real weights!