Starvation mode - advice

Concordia wrote:

First, some clarification: Cyclical ketogenic (which is what it
sounds like you're attempting to do) is a bit different from just
doing the occasional refeed.

However, I'm not sure I understand why you would be attempting
cyclical ketogenic when you're almost 50 lbs from goal. Are you doing
this in conjunction with a weight training program, perhaps?

Suggestions:
(1) Stay in ketosis to control your appetite. Forget about refeeds.
(2) Make sure you're getting enough protein.
(3) Increase exercise.
(4) Calories matter. Bodyweight (in pounds) x 10 would be a good
starting point to estimate daily caloric intake. Start there and take
it down a bit if necessary.


Again, cyclical keto isn't what you want to be doing at this point.

If you still care to read up on the subject, do an advanced google
*groups* search on misc.fitness weights for the terms "refeed", and
also "ketogenic". Putting "lyle" in as author will narrow the
searches further.


I do not understand one word. What qualified gibberish is that? What
ever in the world is cyclical ketogenic? (You do not actually need to
answer and explain).

What I am doing is trying to lose weight.
This thing about refeed is something I read about nearly a year ago, and
I understood it so that it might help me out of plateau if I overeat a
couple of times to get the system going again. I did that and could not
stop overeating for six months (that means a lot of lovely carbs in the
food), something like what happens to alcoholics when they fall for
temptation after a dry period. So much for refeed. Gained back half of
what I had lost but my metabolism obviously had decided to keep the new
heavier weight, because I could get weight loss going againonly by
cutting portions drastically.

I am not doing Atkins with any interest in serious scientific detail. I
can count my carbs and calories, I can read the scales and I know when I
grow too big for my clothes, or when I can go try one size smaller to
put on. And I know when I see a waistline appear in the mirror (some
day, I hope).

If I eat as much calories at present as the suggested formula above I
gain weight. I dislike doing mathematics. I weigh my food, look up the
calories and carbs from list the I have set up on the fridge door and
have thus come to the conclusion that maximum about 800-900 calories
keeps me losing. We'll see how it is next Sunday, today I had gone down
800g from last Sunday. (but now, in the evening I am actually one kilo
heavier.)

Why I wrote my piece in the first place is that my body obviously is
fighting against the weight loss very strongly and I am seriously
concerned if eating very little calories of which a greater part are
protein (chicken, pork, fish, only a little lettuce, cucumber or
broccoli to give it some colour) is harmful in some way inthe long run
or if my body will return to burning calories at more normal rate.

The question actually is, is there a way to get out of this starvation
mode, as I have seen it called so often, or shall I just go on and see
what happens and hope for continued weight loss.

I am not really interested in any conversation or hairsplitting theories
about what starvation mode is actually called, or is there anything
like starvation mode at all or whatever. I use that term out of
convenience, in lack of anything better.

As far as I know I am not in ketosis, at least I have not got the
"dragon breath" yet I developed earlier. Ketostix are not available in
Sweden. Would something they call lacmus (litmos) paper do?

The official Swedish medical opinion is that Atkins diet is dangerous
for your health and leads to all kinds of unexpected unpleasant
illnesses and death.
Nevertheless, light in darkness has been found. Some Atkins Nutritonal
low carb products have found their way to shops that mainly sell
alternative herbal medicine and such. Not to food markets, probably as
they are in some way a suspicious product conncted to a fatal diet :-)

Arto F.

Do a google search for 'Basal Metabolic Rate'. Starvation mode occurs when
you continue to eat below your BMR for longer than about a week, which you
are obviously doing. You can get your calories up to your BMR without
adding a considerable amount of carbs.

on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:55:00 +0200, "Arto Frobeus"
wrote:

Why I wrote my piece in the first place is that my body obviously is
fighting against the weight loss very strongly and I am seriously
concerned if eating very little calories of which a greater part are
protein (chicken, pork, fish, only a little lettuce, cucumber or
broccoli to give it some colour) is harmful in some way inthe long run
or if my body will return to burning calories at more normal rate.

The question actually is, is there a way to get out of this starvation
mode, as I have seen it called so often, or shall I just go on and see
what happens and hope for continued weight loss.

-----
Bev

Do a google search for 'Basal Metabolic Rate'. Starvation mode occurs when
you continue to eat below your BMR for longer than about a week, which you
are obviously doing. You can get your calories up to your BMR without
adding a considerable amount of carbs.

on Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:55:00 +0200, "Arto Frobeus"
wrote:

Why I wrote my piece in the first place is that my body obviously is
fighting against the weight loss very strongly and I am seriously
concerned if eating very little calories of which a greater part are
protein (chicken, pork, fish, only a little lettuce, cucumber or
broccoli to give it some colour) is harmful in some way inthe long run
or if my body will return to burning calories at more normal rate.

The question actually is, is there a way to get out of this starvation
mode, as I have seen it called so often, or shall I just go on and see
what happens and hope for continued weight loss.

-----
Bev

"Cubit" wrote in message . com...
IMHO "Starvation Mode" is a myth. There is a small increase in metabolic
efficiency, if you eat 600 calories per day. This gets exaggerated by
wishful thinking of those who hate to count calories.

http://www.FitDay.com is a great way to find out how many calories you
average. Find your BMR on the internet and the math should be obvious.
Note: Fitday over-estimates caloric burn rate.


You are right that there isn't a starvation mode when it comes to
number of calories consumed in a day, but eventually you do reach a
weight when your body suddenly slows down. You'll notice that you feel
cold especially your hands and feet. The slowdown isn't permanent,
however, your metabolism picks up again should you later pass that
weight.

"Cubit" wrote in message . com...
IMHO "Starvation Mode" is a myth. There is a small increase in metabolic
efficiency, if you eat 600 calories per day. This gets exaggerated by
wishful thinking of those who hate to count calories.

http://www.FitDay.com is a great way to find out how many calories you
average. Find your BMR on the internet and the math should be obvious.
Note: Fitday over-estimates caloric burn rate.


You are right that there isn't a starvation mode when it comes to
number of calories consumed in a day, but eventually you do reach a
weight when your body suddenly slows down. You'll notice that you feel
cold especially your hands and feet. The slowdown isn't permanent,
however, your metabolism picks up again should you later pass that
weight.

In article , Arto Frobeus
writes
As it is now, it seems that I need to eat a little less for every day that comes
to keep losing, the body seems to fight back about every microgram. I pretend
not to worry of daily fluctuations, though , but I cannot help weighing myself
also in the middle of the week , even though I have decided that Sunday is
Weighing Day.

I wonder if I shall have to keep nibbling till I get to goal weight, which is a
long way away (94 kg - 72 kg), or could I expect say a WHOOSH sometimes or that
the body actually will start wanting more than under 1000 calories a day. (I am
down at about 800 -900 kcal/day now , carbs under 20 g, anything more, and I
stall or gain.)

Increase your cardio and do some weights. As you get fitter, you can
start upping calories to go with the burn.

--
Jane Lumley

In article , Arto Frobeus
writes
As it is now, it seems that I need to eat a little less for every day that comes
to keep losing, the body seems to fight back about every microgram. I pretend
not to worry of daily fluctuations, though , but I cannot help weighing myself
also in the middle of the week , even though I have decided that Sunday is
Weighing Day.

I wonder if I shall have to keep nibbling till I get to goal weight, which is a
long way away (94 kg - 72 kg), or could I expect say a WHOOSH sometimes or that
the body actually will start wanting more than under 1000 calories a day. (I am
down at about 800 -900 kcal/day now , carbs under 20 g, anything more, and I
stall or gain.)

Increase your cardio and do some weights. As you get fitter, you can
start upping calories to go with the burn.

--
Jane Lumley

You mention getting most of your diet from protein with a little
lettuce, cucumber r broccoli for color. Are you aware that low
carbing DOES cause vitamin and mineral deficiencies? You have to take
supplements to protect your body. Especially since you sound like you
are shunning vegetables. Your body needs all those things to function
well and would need them to lose weight as well. Also cafeine can
trigger insulin--don't know if you understand that low-carbing is
essentially the same as with diabetics--you are controlling insulin.
Too much caffeine can impede weight loss. Try decaf for a week or
two--yes I know you may "need" it. It's only a week or two!

Stop weighing yourself in the middle of the week since you obviously
can't handle it. You said you weighed a kilo more in the evening. Do
you realize that you weight (when naked) will vary as much a 2-3 kilos
during the day? If you drink 8 cups of waters (~2 litre) that's 4
pounds of weight you add. And that doesn't account for any solid food!
You should always weight yourself the same exact way. I do it first
thing in the morning after I go to the bathroom.

Stop freaking yourself out. However you lose weight has to be the way
you will basically eat forever. If you diet to get to X pounds, then
stop dieting you won't stay X pounds. I'm doing Atkins maintenance for
three months now and I'm bouncing around 6-7 pounds all the time. But
I'm losing about 4 lbs a month still. Yes, slow, but I'm eating a way
that I could for the rest of my life.
DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/272/Sep-263/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
Maint. not counting (CCLL=50-60)

You mention getting most of your diet from protein with a little
lettuce, cucumber r broccoli for color. Are you aware that low
carbing DOES cause vitamin and mineral deficiencies? You have to take
supplements to protect your body. Especially since you sound like you
are shunning vegetables. Your body needs all those things to function
well and would need them to lose weight as well. Also cafeine can
trigger insulin--don't know if you understand that low-carbing is
essentially the same as with diabetics--you are controlling insulin.
Too much caffeine can impede weight loss. Try decaf for a week or
two--yes I know you may "need" it. It's only a week or two!

Stop weighing yourself in the middle of the week since you obviously
can't handle it. You said you weighed a kilo more in the evening. Do
you realize that you weight (when naked) will vary as much a 2-3 kilos
during the day? If you drink 8 cups of waters (~2 litre) that's 4
pounds of weight you add. And that doesn't account for any solid food!
You should always weight yourself the same exact way. I do it first
thing in the morning after I go to the bathroom.

Stop freaking yourself out. However you lose weight has to be the way
you will basically eat forever. If you diet to get to X pounds, then
stop dieting you won't stay X pounds. I'm doing Atkins maintenance for
three months now and I'm bouncing around 6-7 pounds all the time. But
I'm losing about 4 lbs a month still. Yes, slow, but I'm eating a way
that I could for the rest of my life.
DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/272/Sep-263/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
Maint. not counting (CCLL=50-60)

On 19 Sep 2004 22:24:02 -0700, (Wee Willie) wrote:

"Cubit" wrote in message . com...
IMHO "Starvation Mode" is a myth. There is a small increase in metabolic
efficiency, if you eat 600 calories per day. This gets exaggerated by
wishful thinking of those who hate to count calories.

http://www.FitDay.com is a great way to find out how many calories you
average. Find your BMR on the internet and the math should be obvious.
Note: Fitday over-estimates caloric burn rate.


You are right that there isn't a starvation mode when it comes to
number of calories consumed in a day, but eventually you do reach a
weight when your body suddenly slows down. You'll notice that you feel
cold especially your hands and feet. The slowdown isn't permanent,
however, your metabolism picks up again should you later pass that
weight.

I concur that 'Starvation Mode' is a complete myth, fabricated by
lazy fat asses who don't want to sacrifice their gluttony for real
weight loss.

I also concur that eating fewer calories than minimum recommended,
is very effective if it is continued over a longer period.