the eating intelligence

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:42:22 GMT, Tom wrote:

Yes, almost everyone I personally know that had lost the weight on
lo-carb, ended up going back to the old habits. The diet works great. It
seems that eating this way for the long term is the difficult part.

That's because nothing really changed.

It would be inaccurate to say nothing changed. Something did change (weight,
waistlines). the problem seems to be that behaviors and habits did not
change.

"MU" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:42:22 GMT, Tom wrote:

Yes, almost everyone I personally know that had lost the weight on
lo-carb, ended up going back to the old habits. The diet works great. It
seems that eating this way for the long term is the difficult part.

That's because nothing really changed.

It would be inaccurate to say nothing changed. Something did change (weight,
waistlines). the problem seems to be that behaviors and habits did not
change.

"MU" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:42:22 GMT, Tom wrote:

Yes, almost everyone I personally know that had lost the weight on
lo-carb, ended up going back to the old habits. The diet works great. It
seems that eating this way for the long term is the difficult part.

That's because nothing really changed.

you are right, your experience fits the test model...and is a worthwhile
data point.



"Ignoramus3578" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:37:30 GMT, bob
wrote:
Tom, I don't see any conceptual problem with a diet being a good way to
lose
weight only. The problem is, as this thread has mentioned, there seems to
be
very little data to go on.

While I and others feel better on low carb, to be fair, it is far more
likely that the good feeling is the weight loss we recently experienced
(and
or the increased exercise).

My low carbing was a much cleaner experiment than the experience of
most other people here.

I did NOT lose weight on low carb. I lost weight by eating less.

I switched to LC at normal weight. I have not lost a single pound on
LC. I started LC at 172.586 7 day average weight, and am now at
172.400 7 day average weight. 0.186 lbs lost in 5 months. I am fine
with that.

The only improvement that LC brought about, was cessation of knee pain
that I had. I suspect that it is the result of giving up grains.

Effect of eating less and losing weight was dramatic: I have no more
heartburn, no more colds, no more jock itch, better and less sleep, no
more tired feet, I could go on forever. I also perform better in bed
than 1.5 years ago.

LC did not reverse any of these improvements, but it also stopped knee
pain.

We must be careful to sep. the effects of the weight loss and the
effects of low carb. The only way to know for sure is to plan and
execute a "normal" maintenance diet and see how we feel. I am not
ready to do this yet, but am thinking about it.

I have done just that, in reverse.

My main concern would be: are all the hunger cravings going to come
back

Probably.

and will i be able to manage them.

Not known, but what helped me slightly was eating a lot of vegetables.

The secondary concer would be whether i have any other health
effects (cholesterol, joint pain etc)

Check and see.

I have not felt like I am "missing out" on a lot of good foods. I
love to cook, and cook things that taste great and are low
carb. Deserts were never the main problem for me, even though i like
them, at least while on low carb, the temptation has been easy to
resist. Portions and snacking were the issue. I was convinced that
sugar was a pervasive problem before i started low carb and remain
convinced.

It agrees with my experiences. I also completely banned sugar from my
life, except in minute quantities. (like herring).

--
223/172.4/180

you are right, your experience fits the test model...and is a worthwhile
data point.



"Ignoramus3578" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:37:30 GMT, bob
wrote:
Tom, I don't see any conceptual problem with a diet being a good way to
lose
weight only. The problem is, as this thread has mentioned, there seems to
be
very little data to go on.

While I and others feel better on low carb, to be fair, it is far more
likely that the good feeling is the weight loss we recently experienced
(and
or the increased exercise).

My low carbing was a much cleaner experiment than the experience of
most other people here.

I did NOT lose weight on low carb. I lost weight by eating less.

I switched to LC at normal weight. I have not lost a single pound on
LC. I started LC at 172.586 7 day average weight, and am now at
172.400 7 day average weight. 0.186 lbs lost in 5 months. I am fine
with that.

The only improvement that LC brought about, was cessation of knee pain
that I had. I suspect that it is the result of giving up grains.

Effect of eating less and losing weight was dramatic: I have no more
heartburn, no more colds, no more jock itch, better and less sleep, no
more tired feet, I could go on forever. I also perform better in bed
than 1.5 years ago.

LC did not reverse any of these improvements, but it also stopped knee
pain.

We must be careful to sep. the effects of the weight loss and the
effects of low carb. The only way to know for sure is to plan and
execute a "normal" maintenance diet and see how we feel. I am not
ready to do this yet, but am thinking about it.

I have done just that, in reverse.

My main concern would be: are all the hunger cravings going to come
back

Probably.

and will i be able to manage them.

Not known, but what helped me slightly was eating a lot of vegetables.

The secondary concer would be whether i have any other health
effects (cholesterol, joint pain etc)

Check and see.

I have not felt like I am "missing out" on a lot of good foods. I
love to cook, and cook things that taste great and are low
carb. Deserts were never the main problem for me, even though i like
them, at least while on low carb, the temptation has been easy to
resist. Portions and snacking were the issue. I was convinced that
sugar was a pervasive problem before i started low carb and remain
convinced.

It agrees with my experiences. I also completely banned sugar from my
life, except in minute quantities. (like herring).

--
223/172.4/180

The Low-Carb Bartender wrote:
::: IMHO: A single day of increased calories will not disrupt progress
::: as measured about 2 months after the event. Thus one can have
::: feast days, and
::: still lose weight.
::
:: It's like the old story of the kid whose mother says he can't have a
:: cookie before dinner. She walks out of the kitchen, he climbs up on
:: the counter and gorges on the entire contents of the cookie jar.
:: Why? Because he was told he couldn't have one cookie.
::
:: It boils down to moderation, and not deprivation.

But most of us "naturally fat" people know nothing of moderation. So, if it
boils down to moderation, how are we supposed to be able to reach that
state? IMO, this is just like saying "eat less".

"Ignoramus3578" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:15:19 GMT, Tom wrote:

My acid reflux went away as soon as I started eating less, even before
low carbing, but it took going low carb to get rid of knee pain.

Perhaps the amount of benefits plays a major role in whether a
person
decides to change lifestyle for the rest of their life.

I do not yet know if I will keep this lifestyle for the rest of my
life; I will only keep it for as long as it makes sense.

I definitely agree. If for some reason it is proven that the way I'm
eating is dangerous, I would not hesitate to change my diet. Despite vastly
different opinions about the diet, I don't see any evidence of it being
harmful. So far, I have only seen good health from it. I can't see going
back to eating large amounts of junk food no matter what the change would be
in the end though. Time will tell.


Benefits
definitely do play but, also, I think that different people have a
varying degree to which they would attempt to finish what they
started. Some are like bulldogs and some are like butterflies.

I suppose everyone has their own methods and reasons why they choose to
do things in a certain pattern.
Tom


--
223/172.4/180

"bob" wrote in message
m...
Tom, I don't see any conceptual problem with a diet being a good way to
lose
weight only. The problem is, as this thread has mentioned, there seems to
be
very little data to go on.

Right. There is a lot of conflicting info that a person has to wade
through. And the only problem I see with someone only using the diet for
weight loss, is that they may end up yo-yo dieting and could possibly worse
off in the end. If A person can maintain with eating a different way after
the weight is gone, I see know problem.

While I and others feel better on low carb, to be fair, it is far more
likely that the good feeling is the weight loss we recently experienced
(and
or the increased exercise). We must be careful to sep. the effects of the
weight loss and the effects of low carb. The only way to know for sure is
to
plan and execute a "normal" maintenance diet and see how we feel. I am not
ready to do this yet, but am thinking about it. My main concern would be:
are all the hunger cravings going to come back and will i be able to
manage
them. The secondary concer would be whether i have any other health
effects
(cholesterol, joint pain etc)

You are correct. It's not like I did a scientific study on myself. When
I was at normal weight up to my middle 30's, I had no problem with acid
reflux. The shear weight itself of the stomach area being pulled to one side
may be in fact a greater influence than the diet itself. Because the
problems disappeared at the same time it is difficult to know for sure. I
did some experiments in the earlier stage of the diet to see if wheat
products were the key. I did suffer from heartburn that night. But, thinking
back, it is possible that I ate to much at the time and that could be the
problem. My achy shoulders could even have been attributed to increased fat
causing decrease of motion and also lack of muscle around the joint could
have been a problem. Even in simple observations, there could be many
variations. I can not deny that one possiblity is better than another. All I
can say is that I feel good right now and I have no physical ailments due to
the way I eat. Is it just the weightloss itself? It's very possible.

I have not felt like I am "missing out" on a lot of good foods. I love to
cook, and cook things that taste great and are low carb. Deserts were
never
the main problem for me, even though i like them, at least while on low
carb, the temptation has been easy to resist. Portions and snacking were
the
issue. I was convinced that sugar was a pervasive problem before i started
low carb and remain convinced. I view my refusal to buy any food
ingredient
that has more than 3 grams of sugar as a perm change not subject to
negotiation. the carbs I have added back are whole grain, and low volume.
I
did have 2 red lobster refined flour cheese buscuits when i took my
college
student daughter out to eat the other day, and expect that that kind of
infrequent, low level "feasting" will be part of my routine in the future.
I
just still fear at this point that if i had a carb bomb like that every
night with supper, that the hunger and the portions would begin
increasing.

Increased hunger after not being as strict will be my fear. So far my
weight is managable and I like that my food choices are not sweet. My energy
levels 'feel to me' to be stable and I really like that. It suits my
lifestyle as well. I don't care to be super happy, and I don't like being as
far down either. I don't feel the need at this point to increase carb
levels. If I increase my activity level even more, I may find I need to, but
so far it hasn't been a problem. I will monitor my overall health after
another year or 2, as well as medical check-ups to be certain that I'm not
harming myself. Either way, I'm willing to risk my life if it means I'm
making an investment for my upcoming old age. It certainly is not worse than
what I was doing before. It could be that if a diet is higher in fat(even
though it's lo-carb) and there is a huge amount of weight gain, it's
possible that a person may have been better off gaining the weight with
carbs. Would the arteries clog up more? I'm just speculating here on the
next thing to try and find any evidence on. By the way, your original post
was an interesting read.
Tom



"Tom" wrote in message
news:Ng%vd.501801$Pl.331209@pd7tw1no...
achieved. They have stated though, that it is a good way to lose weight
if
they need to do it again. So are they going down the same paths as other
diets? Only eat the way it says until the weight is gone and then it's
back
to the way it was? I'm confused about it myself. If the diet works so
well,
then why wouldn't people stick to it long term? One other thing. Some of
them still think that carbs are very important to a proper diet. Even
though
they had eaten lo-carb for 3 to 6 months. I think I'm missing something.
I
don't see it as they do. To me, it is healthy, and I intend to keep
eating
like this.
Tom

"Ignoramus3578" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:42:09 GMT, Tom wrote:

"Ignoramus3578" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:15:19 GMT, Tom wrote:

My acid reflux went away as soon as I started eating less, even
before
low carbing, but it took going low carb to get rid of knee pain.

Perhaps the amount of benefits plays a major role in whether a
person
decides to change lifestyle for the rest of their life.

I do not yet know if I will keep this lifestyle for the rest of my
life; I will only keep it for as long as it makes sense.

I definitely agree. If for some reason it is proven that the way I'm
eating is dangerous, I would not hesitate to change my diet. Despite
vastly
different opinions about the diet, I don't see any evidence of it being
harmful. So far, I have only seen good health from it. I can't see going
back to eating large amounts of junk food no matter what the change
would be
in the end though. Time will tell.

I am wondering if you are familiar with personality typing and whether
you read Keirsey's Please Understand Me II. Specifically, do you think
that you belong to the Rational category.

I have never heard of it. I'll google it and see if I can come up with
something. Or, if you have a link to something on line? I would be
interested to read it.
Tom

--
223/172.4/180

" :: It boils down to moderation, and not deprivation.

But most of us "naturally fat" people know nothing of moderation. So, if
it
boils down to moderation, how are we supposed to be able to reach that
state? IMO, this is just like saying "eat less".

It's called personal responsibility. Start dealing with it, like dropping
the weak excuse of being "naturally fat."