A bad night - a massive gain?

Hi all, first time poster......

Can someone explain this to me......

I follow a Weight Watchers diet in the UK. I've been really good since the
beginning of January and I've lost nearly 28lbs. I started at 297lbs.

On Saturday, I managed to get drunk and drank alot of beer(and we're talking
about maybe 3420 calories worth). And yes, I ate alot of food. Yes, alot. I
reckon nearly 4000 calories worth.

It's all bad yes. What I'd like to know is, why the scales now register a
5lb gain. How can it be 5lbs? To gain a pound, do you have to eat an extra
500 calories a day? So over a week 3500lbs? Two pounds 7000lbs etc? So
surely, I should have been seeing like a 2lb gain on the scales, rather than
5?

Now I also know from previous experience that this will generally quickly go
away within a few days. What causes it though? I know it's probably pretty
obvious, but it just won't figure in my head......

Cheers

"Atropos" wrote:

On Saturday, I managed to get drunk and drank alot of beer(and we're talking
about maybe 3420 calories worth). And yes, I ate alot of food. Yes, alot. I
reckon nearly 4000 calories worth.

One day cab't trigger a significant change in either your lean or
stored fat. A couple of grams difference in lean, under a pound
of fat. Calories matter, but the weekly average matters a lot more
than any one day.

It's all bad yes. What I'd like to know is, why the scales now register a
5lb gain. How can it be 5lbs?

Water. Stored carb grams come with 204 grams of water each.
Salt triggers extra water stored. The dehydrating effect of alcohol
is somehow reversed to trigger short term water retention some
times for some reason.

To gain a pound, do you have to eat an extra
500 calories a day? So over a week 3500lbs? Two pounds 7000lbs etc?

Exactly. To gain a pound of *fat* or a pound of *lean* you need
to do that. But water isn't fat or lean and water reacts to gravity.

So
surely, I should have been seeing like a 2lb gain on the scales, rather than
5?

*Classic* lesson of why it never works to take only one scale
reading and think it has significance with respect to fat or lean.

When you are standing on the scale the hardest thing to understand
is - Water is not fat. Why is it hard? Because water reacts to
gravity just like fat does. Weigh daily, have no idea what you really
weigh. Weigh daily and average it over a week, have a great idea
what you really weigh.

Now I also know from previous experience that this will generally quickly go
away within a few days.

Which can't happen with fat or lean but can with water or food.

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
ps.com...
"Atropos" wrote:

On Saturday, I managed to get drunk and drank alot of beer(and we're
talking
about maybe 3420 calories worth). And yes, I ate alot of food. Yes, alot.
I
reckon nearly 4000 calories worth.

One day cab't trigger a significant change in either your lean or
stored fat. A couple of grams difference in lean, under a pound
of fat. Calories matter, but the weekly average matters a lot more
than any one day.

It's all bad yes. What I'd like to know is, why the scales now register a
5lb gain. How can it be 5lbs?

Water. Stored carb grams come with 204 grams of water each.
Salt triggers extra water stored. The dehydrating effect of alcohol
is somehow reversed to trigger short term water retention some
times for some reason.

To gain a pound, do you have to eat an extra
500 calories a day? So over a week 3500lbs? Two pounds 7000lbs etc?

Exactly. To gain a pound of *fat* or a pound of *lean* you need
to do that. But water isn't fat or lean and water reacts to gravity.

So
surely, I should have been seeing like a 2lb gain on the scales, rather
than
5?

*Classic* lesson of why it never works to take only one scale
reading and think it has significance with respect to fat or lean.

When you are standing on the scale the hardest thing to understand
is - Water is not fat. Why is it hard? Because water reacts to
gravity just like fat does. Weigh daily, have no idea what you really
weigh. Weigh daily and average it over a week, have a great idea
what you really weigh.

Now I also know from previous experience that this will generally quickly
go
away within a few days.

Which can't happen with fat or lean but can with water or food.


Cheers Doug - just wanted someone to clear that up for me.

I only weight usually on a Friday morning, but I was curious to see what
sort of gain a night of 'excess' caused.

On Mar 5, 2:02 pm, "Atropos" wrote:

What I'd like to know is, why the scales now register a
5lb gain. How can it be 5lbs?

Another comment on water retention swing - It happens no matter
what. Stay on plan and you know you haven't gained but weigh
daily and you'll still see some amount of swing.

So how often should you weigh? Some frequency that does not
trigger emotional overreactions, that's how often. If you can
objectively look at the scale, enter the number into a weekly
averaging formula, and see the result of that as the real number,
then you do that. If you have an emotional reaction to the reading
today even though your intellect knows it is noise, then don't
weigh daily.

Later on the answer does get different, though. Maintainers need
to know if they have moved up out of their set range. That means
that maintainers need to know their water swing. Stay on plan so
you know you haven't gained and write down the number daily.
Until you see a new low the difference between the highest and
the lowest daily reading is your water swing. Anywhere in that range
means you have neither gained nor lost.

When I hit maintenance I did that to find my water swing range.
Turns out my range is 6 pounds. For no reason whatsoever that I
can ever track, I can be 6 up and down again within a couple of
weeks without either gaining or losing. So my first reaction to 5
was "My swing is 6. That's smaller so it does not mean gain or
loss if it were me."

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
oups.com...

Snip

So how often should you weigh? Some frequency that does not
trigger emotional overreactions, that's how often.

Snip again

That is so very well said! )

Will~

"Doug Freyburger" wrote
So how often should you weigh? Some frequency that does not
trigger emotional overreactions, that's how often.

GREAT statement. I did not get weighed the Sunday after Christmas,
because I'd had two days of running around to parties and family and eating,
and I KNEW it would look like I'd totally blown my diet, and all it would do
is **** me off.
I skipped that week's weigh-in, and was baffled enougjh the following week
by the FOUR POUND loss that I got off and on the scale three times, in three
diffrent locations


XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
(223/179/120)
************************************************** *****************
Jason: You want to stretch waaaay up, then bend at the waist
and touch your toes.

gizzie: a) I don't have a waist and b) I'm not even sure I have
**toes**, I have not seen them for five years...

Personal Training, lesson one

************************************************** *****************

"XXXXgizzieXXXX" wrote:

I did not get weighed the Sunday after Christmas,
because I'd had two days of running around to parties and family and eating,
and I KNEW it would look like I'd totally blown my diet, and all it would do
is **** me off.
I skipped that week's weigh-in, and was baffled enougjh the following week
by the FOUR POUND loss that I got off and on the scale three times, in three
diffrent locations

Cheating OFTEN triggers a whoosh. It risks setting up a terrible
negative feedback cycle of extra strict dieting to recover from a
cheat, a cheat to trigger a whoosh, and back and forth until a crash
and burn happens.

I have done enough studies of how the hormones work while low
carbing to know the biochemical mechanism of why a cheat causes
a whoosh in low carbers. It's a leptin reset and it suggests a
strategy that is less risky. 1) Switch from low carb to low fat one
day every week or month or whatever, or 2) rather than cheating with
your favorite carb do a massive carb-up with your least favorite one
instead to make it less tempting to repeat.

For low carb, the simplest explanation is to call it "starvation
mode".
Fuel the fires and loss starts again. Deny fuel to the fires and the
body resists loss. It is consistant with the biochemistry but ends up
sounding a lot fluffy-wuffier than it actually is. Folks here
"starvation
mode" and think it's nonsense rather than thinking of studies of
declining T3 levels, leptin resets an such.

Anyways, I bet if I were to study low fat or other dieting styles for
several years I would end up learning the hormone feedback loops
they use. And I'd learn how "starvation mode" happens with what
hormone feedback loops. And I'd learn what hormones are involved
in that whoosh after the cheat. The fact that I understand how and
why it works with low carb says I could figure it out for other types.

With a cheat the big thing is to get back on plan to get that whoosh,
not to learn about the whoosh and use it as a reason for the next
cheat.

On Mar 5, 2:29 pm, "Doug Freyburger" wrote:
"Atropos" wrote:

On Saturday, I managed to get drunk and drank alot of beer(and we're talking
about maybe 3420 calories worth). And yes, I ate alot of food. Yes, alot. I
reckon nearly 4000 calories worth.

One day cab't trigger a significant change in either your lean or
stored fat. A couple of grams difference in lean, under a pound
of fat. Calories matter, but the weekly average matters a lot more
than any one day.

It's all bad yes. What I'd like to know is, why the scales now register a
5lb gain. How can it be 5lbs?

Water. Stored carb grams come with 204 grams of water each.
Salt triggers extra water stored. The dehydrating effect of alcohol
is somehow reversed to trigger short term water retention some
times for some reason.

To gain a pound, do you have to eat an extra
500 calories a day? So over a week 3500lbs? Two pounds 7000lbs etc?

Exactly. To gain a pound of *fat* or a pound of *lean* you need
to do that. But water isn't fat or lean and water reacts to gravity.

So
surely, I should have been seeing like a 2lb gain on the scales, rather than
5?

*Classic* lesson of why it never works to take only one scale
reading and think it has significance with respect to fat or lean.

When you are standing on the scale the hardest thing to understand
is - Water is not fat. Why is it hard? Because water reacts to
gravity just like fat does. Weigh daily, have no idea what you really
weigh. Weigh daily and average it over a week, have a great idea
what you really weigh.

Now I also know from previous experience that this will generally quickly go
away within a few days.

Which can't happen with fat or lean but can with water or food.

I agee. Especially if he/she ate salty things with that beer. For me,
the telltale sign was the next day or two, my fingers would feel fat
and puffy....salt and water retention. I know exactly how the poster
feels, because I have been there and done that...knowing you are
overeating and yet you just keep going knowing you've WRECKED your
diet. What I FINALLY had to do is treat overeating like an alcholic
treats booze...I never do it...NEVER. I don't overeat, then try to
make up for it over a few days like some people do. That doesn't work
for me. It makes it much easier for me to never get past my calorie
quota. dkw

wrote
What I FINALLY had to do is treat overeating like an alcholic
treats booze...I never do it...NEVER.

That's the basis for Overeaters Anonymous--abstinence "one day at a
time". I like the concept, although the actual OE meetings were not my
"thing". I tend to sweat too much over tomorrow--or next week--when I know
I have a meal-event coming up....

I don't overeat, then try to
make up for it over a few days like some people do.

.....I do just the opposite, I will cut waaaaaaay back for several days,
to "get ahead" of what I know will be too indulgent of a meal. Either way
is actually considered a bulemia behavior--a "non-purging behavior", as one
is still attempting to "get rid of" the consumed calories. An eating
disorder counselor told me that these behaviors are liken to people who try
to "catch up" on sleep, they are really counter-productive. And of course,
we do them anyway....

XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
************************************************** **
clever sig not available at this time--please
check back later
************************************************** ***

On Mar 7, 12:52 pm, "XXXXgizzieXXXX" wrote:
wrote
What I FINALLY had to do is treat overeating like an alcholic

treats booze...I never do it...NEVER.

That's the basis for Overeaters Anonymous--abstinence "one day at a
time". I like the concept, although the actual OE meetings were not my
"thing". I tend to sweat too much over tomorrow--or next week--when I know
I have a meal-event coming up....

I don't overeat, then try to
make up for it over a few days like some people do.

.....I do just the opposite, I will cut waaaaaaay back for several days,
to "get ahead" of what I know will be too indulgent of a meal. Either way
is actually considered a bulemia behavior--a "non-purging behavior", as one
is still attempting to "get rid of" the consumed calories. An eating
disorder counselor told me that these behaviors are liken to people who try
to "catch up" on sleep, they are really counter-productive. And of course,
we do them anyway....

XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
************************************************** **
clever sig not available at this time--please
check back later
************************************************** ***

Undereating and planning for a splurge would work too. I've never
tried that. If you overate once though, it makes it easier to do it a
second and subsequent times and that could be a habit. Never
overeating seems much simpler. I also never undereat, since I allow
myself 1700 calories per day with exercise 6X a week, so there isn't
much to reduce especially since I am thin right now. Also, if you
allow yourself to overeat, there's all those holidays, parties,
business meetings, a night out or two per week, football, your
favorite movies, etc, etc. which all afford a person lots of of
opportunities/excuses to overindulge and the next thing you know you
are always either overeating or undereating...and I know which one of
those would win out as far as I am concerned.

I also eat almost the same thing every day. It sounds boring, I know,
but it is all good food and I know the calories exactly. dkw