Lose Weight by Thinking???

It is noted in "The Math Gene" that the human brain comprises only 2%
of body weight but consumes 20% of available energy. Does that mean
one burns a lot of calories thinking???

"Hard thoughts," anyway -- like, I dunno, calculus or Zen koans.
Seriously, what of it? Talk about your mind-body connection!

I seem to have a very high metabolism, and I wonder if that's got any
relation to my being lost in my thoughts all the time....

They say visualization may well be important for muscle growth, like
how it seems to be a factor in physical performance...could there be
something like this to weight loss and mental activity? How many
calories does the brain burn on its own any given hour, anyway??

NYC XYZ wrote:
It is noted in "The Math Gene" that the human brain comprises only 2%
of body weight but consumes 20% of available energy. Does that mean
one burns a lot of calories thinking???

"Hard thoughts," anyway -- like, I dunno, calculus or Zen koans.
Seriously, what of it? Talk about your mind-body connection!

I seem to have a very high metabolism, and I wonder if that's got any
relation to my being lost in my thoughts all the time....

They say visualization may well be important for muscle growth, like
how it seems to be a factor in physical performance...could there be
something like this to weight loss and mental activity? How many
calories does the brain burn on its own any given hour, anyway??

Yes, you can lose weight by thinking...just keep thinking how you
aren't going to overeat. It does take energy to think, but not much.
Hyperactive people whose brains are constantly racing do burn more
calories, but it is the physical activity that accompanies their mental
activity that burns the extra calories. Let's put it this way. By far,
the most important thing for weight control is caloric intake. A
distant second is exercise, followed by metabolic rate at the bottom
and almost everything else like thinking deep thoughts doesn't even
make the list. dkw

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
ps.com...

It is noted in "The Math Gene" that the human brain comprises only 2%
of body weight but consumes 20% of available energy. Does that mean
one burns a lot of calories thinking???

One's brain does a lot of things, like regulate breathing, heart rate, blood
pressure, see, hear, tells us when we need to doo-doo or pee, makes us smile
when a sexy someone comes into view, and lets us do math, science, writing
and remember stuff. So it does far more than just think.

The brain uses around one double-cheeseburger's or Quarter Pounder's with
cheese worth of energy to power the brain for a day. That's around 450 or
500 calories a day.

450 calories per day is equal to about 22 W or around 1/4 of what a 100 W
light bulb uses.

I would guess about 1/4 of this 22 W is used for what would be called
thinking.

In comparison, my Intel Centrino (R) uses around 12 W, which is
considerablely less than other Intel Pentium chips. But, unlike my brain,
the Centrino (R) does not have much memory, a video processor, audio
processor, the ability to feel pain, emotions or pleasure. And, unlike my
brain, Intels tend to crash often, like when running Windows(R).

Considering the complexity of the computations that the brain does, the fact
that the brain does multiprocessing very well, the brain is more energy
efficent.

Jeff

\ "Hard thoughts," anyway -- like, I dunno, calculus or Zen koans.
Seriously, what of it? Talk about your mind-body connection!

I seem to have a very high metabolism, and I wonder if that's got any
relation to my being lost in my thoughts all the time....

They say visualization may well be important for muscle growth, like
how it seems to be a factor in physical performance...could there be
something like this to weight loss and mental activity? How many
calories does the brain burn on its own any given hour, anyway??

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, NYC XYZ wrote:

It is noted in "The Math Gene" that the human brain comprises only 2% of
body weight but consumes 20% of available energy. Does that mean one
burns a lot of calories thinking???

Yes. And not only thinking, but feeling, seeing, moving, and doing any of
the myriad other jobs your brain does.

I had been under the impression that neurons' energy use was independent
of their actual activity, since it was required to maintain the ion
gradients they depend on, but having through it through, that doesn't make
any sense. A look at the literature confirms this; people have done some
hard thinking about the energy consumption of neurons, fo' izzinstance:

http://www.pnb.sunysb.edu/mci/JC/6-15/Crotty.pdf

In a foreshadowing of modern microprocessor design, it turns out the brain
probably evolved not only to maximise performance, but to minimise energy
consumption.

tom

--
Change happens with ball-flattening speed. -- Thomas Edison

Tom Anderson wrote:


Yes. And not only thinking, but feeling, seeing, moving, and doing any of
the myriad other jobs your brain does.

I had been under the impression that neurons' energy use was independent
of their actual activity, since it was required to maintain the ion
gradients they depend on, but having through it through, that doesn't make
any sense. A look at the literature confirms this; people have done some
hard thinking about the energy consumption of neurons, fo' izzinstance:

http://www.pnb.sunysb.edu/mci/JC/6-15/Crotty.pdf

In a foreshadowing of modern microprocessor design, it turns out the brain
probably evolved not only to maximise performance, but to minimise energy
consumption.

tom

--
Change happens with ball-flattening speed. -- Thomas Edison



But then I don't get it, guys -- the claim is that 2% of body weight
consumes 20% of body energy. It may be "efficient," given the returns,
but that's still a substantial chunk in absolute terms. So in theory,
it seems like one should be able to lose weight by doing calculus!
What hidden, lurking/confounding variable(s) may be at play in the
background preventing drastic weight loss? Or is it that muscles use
up an even greater percentage of body energy, so that in absolute terms
weight loss still has to come from physically rigorous activity?
(Though, given the mind-body connection, does it even make sense to
speak of a mental-physical distinction here? After all, insofar as the
brain is physically-based, any brain activity is, ultimately, physical
activity....)

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
ups.com...

Tom Anderson wrote:


Yes. And not only thinking, but feeling, seeing, moving, and doing any
of
the myriad other jobs your brain does.

I had been under the impression that neurons' energy use was
independent
of their actual activity, since it was required to maintain the ion
gradients they depend on, but having through it through, that doesn't
make
any sense. A look at the literature confirms this; people have done
some
hard thinking about the energy consumption of neurons, fo'
izzinstance:

http://www.pnb.sunysb.edu/mci/JC/6-15/Crotty.pdf

In a foreshadowing of modern microprocessor design, it turns out the
brain
probably evolved not only to maximise performance, but to minimise
energy
consumption.

tom

--
Change happens with ball-flattening speed. -- Thomas Edison



But then I don't get it, guys -- the claim is that 2% of body weight
consumes 20% of body energy. It may be "efficient," given the returns,
but that's still a substantial chunk in absolute terms. So in theory,
it seems like one should be able to lose weight by doing calculus!
What hidden, lurking/confounding variable(s) may be at play in the
background preventing drastic weight loss? Or is it that muscles use
up an even greater percentage of body energy, so that in absolute terms
weight loss still has to come from physically rigorous activity?
(Though, given the mind-body connection, does it even make sense to
speak of a mental-physical distinction here? After all, insofar as the
brain is physically-based, any brain activity is, ultimately, physical
activity....)

Making the assumption that the amount of conscious mental activity has
any significant relation to the amount of energy consumed by the brain
strikes me as dubious, when you consider that the amount of the brain
used in doing so is quite small. Go deer hunting so you are forced to
remain alert and watching carefully for the smallest of movements and
listening for small sounds. It will have just as much or more effect.
You don't even have to take a weapon, if you don't want to.

:-)

del

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, Del Cecchi wrote:

"Prisoner at War" wrote in message
ups.com...

Tom Anderson wrote:

Yes. And not only thinking, but feeling, seeing, moving, and doing any
of the myriad other jobs your brain does.

But then I don't get it, guys -- the claim is that 2% of body weight
consumes 20% of body energy. It may be "efficient," given the returns,
but that's still a substantial chunk in absolute terms. So in theory,
it seems like one should be able to lose weight by doing calculus!
What hidden, lurking/confounding variable(s) may be at play in the
background preventing drastic weight loss?

Making the assumption that the amount of conscious mental activity has
any significant relation to the amount of energy consumed by the brain
strikes me as dubious, when you consider that the amount of the brain
used in doing so is quite small.

That's the thing. If you could figure out a way to get all of your brain
firing at once, you might be able to do it - perhaps doing long division
in your head while ballet dancing with a girl you're in love with, and
trying to remember her name.

Christ, i'm starting to sound like xkcd:

http://xkcd.com/

tom

--
tiny des

Prisoner at War wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:

Yes. And not only thinking, but feeling, seeing, moving, and doing any of
the myriad other jobs your brain does.

I had been under the impression that neurons' energy use was independent
of their actual activity, since it was required to maintain the ion
gradients they depend on, but having through it through, that doesn't make
any sense. A look at the literature confirms this; people have done some
hard thinking about the energy consumption of neurons, fo' izzinstance:

http://www.pnb.sunysb.edu/mci/JC/6-15/Crotty.pdf

In a foreshadowing of modern microprocessor design, it turns out the brain
probably evolved not only to maximise performance, but to minimise energy
consumption.

tom

--
Change happens with ball-flattening speed. -- Thomas Edison



But then I don't get it, guys -- the claim is that 2% of body weight
consumes 20% of body energy. It may be "efficient," given the returns,
but that's still a substantial chunk in absolute terms. So in theory,
it seems like one should be able to lose weight by doing calculus!
What hidden, lurking/confounding variable(s) may be at play in the
background preventing drastic weight loss?

"Thinking" is the smallest part of the brain's function. When you're
typing, for example, more brain function goes into handling the fingers,
visual and tactile feedback, etc , than into the composition of the
"thought." Processing sensory inputs and handling shifts in attention
take more brain function than "thinking." And so it goes.

It's a common mistake to think that thinking takes a lot of energy,
probably because for all of us most of the time and for most all of the
time "thinking' feels like it takes effort. Calculus is "hard to do",
but brain scans of people who are good at math show that it actually
takes less brain power than watching a movie. (People who are bad at
math use a lot more brain power, apparently on irrelevant and
distracting "thoughts" that get in the way of doing it well.)

Easy - hard is not the same as simple - complex.

HTH

"NYC XYZ" skrev i melding
ps.com...

It is noted in "The Math Gene" that the human brain comprises only 2%
of body weight but consumes 20% of available energy.

No. Only when the body is at complete rest. When logging timber at -45, the
proportion decreases somewhat ...

Google for "brain energy consumption", and you will find some good
scientific articles among the first hits.

T

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006, NYC XYZ wrote:

It is noted in "The Math Gene" that the human brain comprises only 2% of
body weight but consumes 20% of available energy. Does that mean one
burns a lot of calories thinking???

Yes. And not only thinking, but feeling, seeing, moving, and doing any of
the myriad other jobs your brain does.

I had been under the impression that neurons' energy use was independent
of their actual activity, since it was required to maintain the ion
gradients they depend on, but having through it through, that doesn't make
any sense. A look at the literature confirms this; people have done some
hard thinking about the energy consumption of neurons, fo' izzinstance:

http://www.pnb.sunysb.edu/mci/JC/6-15/Crotty.pdf

In a foreshadowing of modern microprocessor design, it turns out the brain
probably evolved not only to maximise performance, but to minimise energy
consumption.

tom

Yet the brain only uses about 450 or so calories per day. If you're
thinking, you're not paying as much attention to visual stimulation,
auditory stimulation, etc. So while some neurons will burn more glucose,
other parts will burn less energy. I really doubt that heavy-duty thinking
will result in enough additional calories to increase weight loss.

Jeff

--
Change happens with ball-flattening speed. -- Thomas Edison