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#51
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Cholesterol after 3 years of eating mostly meat and fat
Hollywood wrote:
On Sep 28, 10:31 pm, Del Cecchi wrote: Jim Fixx. Look it up. The man who started the American Fitness Revolution. And then died at age 52. Of a massive heart attack. And he has terribly sclerotic vascular system. Course, he outlived his dad (who checked out at 42, first heart attack at 35). So, maybe it's about family history. Is that your point? pretty much. he said that anyone who could run a marathon would never die of heart disease. This was before statins had been invented/discovered. -- Del Cecchi "This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions, strategies or opinions.” |
#52
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Cholesterol after 3 years of eating mostly meat and fat
Hollywood wrote:
On Sep 29, 10:57 am, wrote: You know that diet isn't the biggest factor with cholesterol - its genetics. You've probably read about the traditional diet of the Masai warriors in Africa - essentially blood and milk, a very high cholesterol diet. These guys have very low serum cholesterol levels - pure genetics. One might take the Masai to show that dietary cholesterol does matter, in the opposite way that anyone thinks. In the absence of carbohydrates in their diet (milk sugar being it), perhaps they don't have to worry about the fat/cholesterol content of their diet. Perhaps the fat is protective in the absence of carbs. That would be a valid interpretation. It matches with my results and I'm about as distant, genetically, from a Masai, as is humanly possible. We know genetics can cause some people to be resistant to a cholesterol-lowering diet - or to be more sensitive to a high-fat diet. All you can do is hope to moderate it with diet. There are people with familial hypercholesterolaemia - and they do need drugs on top of a low fat diet to keep their levels down. They could pretty much eliminate every scrap of cholesterol from their diet, and their bodies would still make enough to keep their levels too high. Your liver manufactures something like 1,000 mg of cholesterol a day (and more in some people). An additional 200 to 500 mg can come from diet. The research showing linkage between dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol is tenuous at best. We're talking the 5% portion of the problem, if it's a problem anyway. If you're eating 300 mg (typical American) and your liver is chunking out 1000 mg, you're working on the small end of the stick. And why would your liver evolve to produce 1000mg of the stuff a day if you don't need it? Perhaps it confers some advantage in young people, and nature or gaia or evolution cares not what happens to 50 or 60 year olds? Most folks were dead of something by then anyway, way back then. -- Del Cecchi "This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions, strategies or opinions.” |
#53
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Cholesterol after 3 years of eating mostly meat and fat
Del Cecchi wrote:
Hollywood wrote: On Sep 28, 10:31 pm, Del Cecchi wrote: Jim Fixx. Look it up. The man who started the American Fitness Revolution. And then died at age 52. Of a massive heart attack. And he has terribly sclerotic vascular system. Course, he outlived his dad (who checked out at 42, first heart attack at 35). So, maybe it's about family history. Is that your point? pretty much. he said that anyone who could run a marathon would never die of heart disease. This was before statins had been invented/discovered. AND ? |
#54
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Cholesterol after 3 years of eating mostly meat and fat
Del Cecchi wrote:
Hollywood wrote: On Sep 29, 10:57 am, wrote: You know that diet isn't the biggest factor with cholesterol - its genetics. You've probably read about the traditional diet of the Masai warriors in Africa - essentially blood and milk, a very high cholesterol diet. These guys have very low serum cholesterol levels - pure genetics. One might take the Masai to show that dietary cholesterol does matter, in the opposite way that anyone thinks. In the absence of carbohydrates in their diet (milk sugar being it), perhaps they don't have to worry about the fat/cholesterol content of their diet. Perhaps the fat is protective in the absence of carbs. That would be a valid interpretation. It matches with my results and I'm about as distant, genetically, from a Masai, as is humanly possible. We know genetics can cause some people to be resistant to a cholesterol-lowering diet - or to be more sensitive to a high-fat diet. All you can do is hope to moderate it with diet. There are people with familial hypercholesterolaemia - and they do need drugs on top of a low fat diet to keep their levels down. They could pretty much eliminate every scrap of cholesterol from their diet, and their bodies would still make enough to keep their levels too high. Your liver manufactures something like 1,000 mg of cholesterol a day (and more in some people). An additional 200 to 500 mg can come from diet. The research showing linkage between dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol is tenuous at best. We're talking the 5% portion of the problem, if it's a problem anyway. If you're eating 300 mg (typical American) and your liver is chunking out 1000 mg, you're working on the small end of the stick. And why would your liver evolve to produce 1000mg of the stuff a day if you don't need it? Perhaps it confers some advantage in young people, and nature or gaia or evolution cares not what happens to 50 or 60 year olds? Most folks were dead of something by then anyway, way back then. Perhaps it doesn't confer some advantage in young people. Don't we die because of the snake and the apple of knowledge? |
#55
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Cholesterol after 3 years of eating mostly meat and fat
When we talk about "evidence", make sure to really consider evidence
and not second hand newspaper articles. As far as I understand, no one established that high cholesterol causes dying of heart disease, or causes a higher rate of dying. (no causative relationship). i |
#56
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Cholesterol after 3 years of eating mostly meat and fat
Hollywood wrote:
The research showing linkage between dietary cholesterol and serum cholesterol is tenuous at best. And why would your liver evolve to produce 1000mg of the stuff a day if you don't need it? I know of at least two reasons. Cholesterol is the body's fat transportation mechanism. It's used to move fats to and from storage. This usage explains why being in ketosis from low carbing causes the triglycerides portion of cholesterol to plummet in almost everyone - While in ketosis the liver sweeps the blood for fat to convert to acetyl-CoA plus ketones for energy for the rest of the cells. What this portion doesn't explain is the movement of all the other types of cholesterol. So without cholesterol someone on a zero carb diet would kneel over and die for lack of ability to burn their stored fat. There would be no Inuits in the world for example. Cholesterol is also used as a temporary patching system for damaged cells until new healthy cells can be grown in that place. If the damage is constant the cholesterol plaque can build up slowly. This happens in arteries in response to high blood pressure for example. In arteries the problem isn't the cholesterol plaque as such but the tendency of old plaque to gather calcium. So without cholesterol we'd all die of heart attacks while we were still young. One interesting thing about heart attacks - According to my brother the verterinarian dogs and cats don't die of heart attacks at anything like the same rate as humans. They die of kidney failure or intestinal blockage or cancer or whatever but rarely from heart attacks. Yet cats are obligate canivores and dogs are recently evolved from carnivores towards omnivores. They can be feed extremely high cholestrol diets and be quite healthy. Since they aren't human, just how well that experience maps to humanity is open for debate. |
#57
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Cholesterol after 3 years of eating mostly meat and fat
" wrote:
"Roger Zoul" wrote: wrote: don't try and defend a high cholesterol diet as being good for you unless you have the SCIENTIFIC long-term studies to show how wrong all that research is, and not using any of that Atkins mumbo-jumbo ... Well, you wrote all that. Yet, I don't think you have much real knowledge of any scientific research. Have you ever bothered to even read a research paper? I'm a retired dentist and taught at a dental school. You're also a fervent vegitarian who will discard any study that concludes that eating meat is healthy. Just being a vegitarian who does not push it on others would mean you are biased, but you push it constantly as your agenda. There's no point in showing you studies about meat eating because you are certain to dismiss any such story. On the low carb front, you have posted that you think the fat in even one egg yolk is enough to be a problem, yet you eat a hundred or more packets of artificial sweetener per day. That makes any opinion you have on anything low carb to be laughable. As a dentist, you use a hundred or more packets of artificial sweetener per day, apparently ignoring the fact that each and every packet contains sugar. You know, that sugar stuff that causes teeth to rot. You may call that Atkins stuff mumbo jumbo, but looking at your posting history makes me laugh that you bother to react to postings like Igor's. I tried low fat for 20 years and gained 50 pounds, then tried Atkins and lost 40 in the first year. I struggle with maintenance but low carb works for me far better than low fat did. I still try to post in favor of low fat for anyone who does well on it. My bias is clear but it's orders of magnitude less than yours. |
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