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High protein, low carb, low fat diet?



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 30th, 2003, 02:05 PM
Roger Zoul
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Default High protein, low carb, low fat diet?

Ignoramus3739 wrote:
:: In article , Roger Zoul
:: wrote:
::: Ignoramus3739 wrote:
::::: In article , determined wrote:
::::::
:::::: "tHatDudeUK" wrote in
:::::: message ...
::::::: How much protein should I be trying to stick to each day with
::::::: such
::::::: a diet? Any recommended foodstuffs?
::::::
:::::: I eat about 1g per lb of bodyweight - 120g. I also lift weights
:::::: 3
:::::: x per week, so I'm looking to build muscle, which requires more
:::::: protein...
:::::
::::: I highly doubt that it requires even 1/10 of the protein that you
::::: consume...
:::
::: and upon what do you base this high doubt?
::
:: I have been reading some navy seal training book, that flatly states
:: that even for the best athletes, it is impossible to use more than 27
:: grams of protein per day. I highly doubt that for Determined, who is
:: a female and is not a seal trainee, the number would be even close to
:: half that amount. Hence my suggestion.
::
:: Note that protein can be used for more than muscle building. But
:: muscle building in ordinary persons like determined does not take
:: much protein.

So this must be why you choose your screen name, no doubt.

You do realize that you said she needs less than 12g of protein per day to
build muscle, right?

And what makes you think this navy seal training book is the end-all be-all
authority on building muscle?


  #22  
Old September 30th, 2003, 02:12 PM
Roger Zoul
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Posts: n/a
Default High protein, low carb, low fat diet?

Ignoramus16314 wrote:
:: In article m, PJ
:: DiSanti wrote:
::: 27g of protein for muscle building, but that's in addition to the
::: .4g per
::: pound of bodyweight correct?
::
:: No.
::
:: Check out
::
:: http://www.ianr.unl.edu/pubs/foods/nf74.htm
::
:: ``The usual recommendation for protein is to provide approximately
:: 0.8
:: gram of protein per kilogram of body weight for a normal, healthy
:: adult. Children and adolescents who are growing have a slightly
:: higher
:: need for protein than adults. Athletes, due to their regular daily
:: activity that can affect muscle maintenance and repair, may need
:: slightly more protein than non-exercisers. Research suggests
:: endurance
:: athletes may need from 1.2 to 1.4 g protein per kilogram body
:: weight. ''
::
:: Our original poster is not an athlete. She probably spends at most 30
:: minutes per day lifting relatively light weights. My assumption may
:: be
:: incorrect but I need to make one.
::
:: So, 0.8 grams per kilogram is about 0.36 grams of protein per
:: pound. Assuming that she is 145 lbs (I vaguely recall her being below
:: this weight), she need 52 grams of protein.
::
:: Continued:
::
:: ``Misconception: Extra protein from foods or use of protein
:: supplements will help increase muscle strength.
::
:: Training and hard work on the muscles are responsible for building
:: strength. ''
::

Building strength and building muscle aren't the same thing, and one can to
some extent, do both separately.


:: It is not complicated to build up strength (to a level): just do
:: strength training, while eating normally. Gorging on meat will not
:: help anyone except the most heavily trained athletes.

No one said anything about gorging....she said she was eating 120 g per
day -- not that much, really.

::
:: The myth that eating much more protein than the body needs will help
:: improve muscles is perpetuated by the supplements industry mostly.
::
:: I am not saying you should not eat more meat if you feel like eating
:: meat, or if you want to eat fewer carbs, or whatever. Meat is great
:: food and I love it myself. Just do not say that you need it for
:: "bulking up the muscle". You need to work to bulk up the muscles and
:: become stronger.

Bulking up and becoming stronger aren't necessarily the same thing. Also,
just doing work won't necessary result in increase muscle size.

Don't hang on it MFW? You don't seem to have learned anything...


  #23  
Old September 30th, 2003, 02:58 PM
Duffy
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Posts: n/a
Default High protein, low carb, low fat diet?

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message ...
tHatDudeUK wrote:
:: "Ignoramus3739" wrote in message
:: ...
::: I have no idea... but I would be a little wary of radical diets.
:::
::: How tall are you, what's your weight etc, how much are you trying to
::: lose?
::
:: 6' 3" (190 cm)
:: 14 stone (89 Kg)
:: Hoping to lose 2-3 stone (15-20 kg) [or convert fat to muscle
:: somehow] Age 23 years
:: No known health problems.
::
:: I have (I'm guessing in comparison with the average male of my age)
:: low muscle tone, strength and stamina (my g/f can beat me at
:: arm-wrestling [which isn't very good, how ashamed I am :-)]).
::
:: I also have a big belly I'd like to get rid of.
::
:: Any further thoughts on possible diet?

Yeah, forgot this high protein, low carb, low fat diet and just do low carb.
Lift weights, do cardio and eat low carb. I've lost 117 lbs so far, and I'm
very happy. Muscle, stamina, and strength have all increased, while fat has
decreased. Tone is greatly improved.

Doing low fat and low carb will make you miserable. It is likely you won't
be able to stay on such a diet for very long. Be sure to eat lot of high
fiber veggies.

And if you don't like low carb, then do low fat. But LC is better imo
because it usually prevents muscle loss compared to low fat.


Roger, Roger, Roger, doing low fat and low carb doesn't make me
miserable! I'll tell you, I get crazy when see statements like "Doing
low fat and low carb will make you miserable." because while the
statement might be true for you, it is not true for all.

Not everyone can take the high-fat regime of the Atkins diet. I can't.
My digestion doesn't tolerate more than a taste of mayo, heavy cream,
butter, etc. Fat on meat makes me really sick. I've been in the ER
more than once because I ate too much fat. Granted, I am on the
extreme end of the scale. However, I know that other folks out find
that the high fat content of the typical Atkins diet doesn't agree
with them. Or they don't choose to do it. Yes I know that the results
about dietary fat and heart disease are inconclusive. But some people
believe it. And those folks still want to eat low carb.

Either way, a person can eat very happily from a reasonable low-fat,
low-carb diet. It takes a little more planning. It takes learning
about nutrional values. But it can be done. I'm living proof. And now,
so are my husband and son!!!!!!!

Is my diet the Ornish low fat diet? Of course not. But is my diet
lower in fat than the typical Atkins plan. Yeppers. It works-honestly.
And I'm not the least bit miserable. (At least not about the food part
of my life!!!)

Duffy
182/124
since 12-01-01
  #24  
Old September 30th, 2003, 03:43 PM
Brad Sheppard
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Posts: n/a
Default High protein, low carb, low fat diet?

Roger,

Nine grams of protein for every 20 pounds is more accurate (or 1
gram/kilogram) - for a 160 pounder, that's 72 grams. For the best
info about protein and diet, in my opinion, see
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritio...e/protein.html Americans
typically eat far more protein than they need (me included). Excess
protein puts a burden on the kidneys.

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message ...
Brad Sheppard wrote:
:: A practically all protein diet? A really bad idea. 20% by calories
:: of protein is plenty. You don't need more than 70g protein - thats
:: 280 calories.

Where did you come up with that number?


::
:: "tHatDudeUK" wrote in
:: message ...
::: How much protein should I be trying to stick to each day with such
::: a diet?
::: Any recommended foodstuffs?
:::
::: Any good websites?
:::
::: Thanks in advance.
:::
::: tHatDudeUK

  #25  
Old September 30th, 2003, 08:45 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default High protein, low carb, low fat diet?

Duffy wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
::: tHatDudeUK wrote:
::::: "Ignoramus3739" wrote in
::::: message
::::: ...
:::::: I have no idea... but I would be a little wary of radical diets.
::::::
:::::: How tall are you, what's your weight etc, how much are you
:::::: trying to
:::::: lose?
:::::
::::: 6' 3" (190 cm)
::::: 14 stone (89 Kg)
::::: Hoping to lose 2-3 stone (15-20 kg) [or convert fat to muscle
::::: somehow] Age 23 years
::::: No known health problems.
:::::
::::: I have (I'm guessing in comparison with the average male of my
::::: age)
::::: low muscle tone, strength and stamina (my g/f can beat me at
::::: arm-wrestling [which isn't very good, how ashamed I am :-)]).
:::::
::::: I also have a big belly I'd like to get rid of.
:::::
::::: Any further thoughts on possible diet?
:::
::: Yeah, forgot this high protein, low carb, low fat diet and just do
::: low carb.
::: Lift weights, do cardio and eat low carb. I've lost 117 lbs so
::: far, and I'm
::: very happy. Muscle, stamina, and strength have all increased,
::: while fat has
::: decreased. Tone is greatly improved.
:::
::: Doing low fat and low carb will make you miserable. It is likely
::: you won't
::: be able to stay on such a diet for very long. Be sure to eat lot
::: of high
::: fiber veggies.
:::
::: And if you don't like low carb, then do low fat. But LC is better
::: imo
::: because it usually prevents muscle loss compared to low fat.
::
:: Roger, Roger, Roger, doing low fat and low carb doesn't make me
:: miserable! I'll tell you, I get crazy when see statements like "Doing
:: low fat and low carb will make you miserable." because while the
:: statement might be true for you, it is not true for all.
::
:: Not everyone can take the high-fat regime of the Atkins diet. I
:: can't.
:: My digestion doesn't tolerate more than a taste of mayo, heavy cream,
:: butter, etc. Fat on meat makes me really sick. I've been in the ER
:: more than once because I ate too much fat. Granted, I am on the
:: extreme end of the scale. However, I know that other folks out find
:: that the high fat content of the typical Atkins diet doesn't agree
:: with them. Or they don't choose to do it. Yes I know that the results
:: about dietary fat and heart disease are inconclusive. But some people
:: believe it. And those folks still want to eat low carb.
::
:: Either way, a person can eat very happily from a reasonable low-fat,
:: low-carb diet. It takes a little more planning. It takes learning
:: about nutrional values. But it can be done. I'm living proof. And
:: now,
:: so are my husband and son!!!!!!!
::
:: Is my diet the Ornish low fat diet? Of course not. But is my diet
:: lower in fat than the typical Atkins plan. Yeppers. It
:: works-honestly.
:: And I'm not the least bit miserable. (At least not about the food
:: part
:: of my life!!!)

Okay...I can buy that....but when I did low fat many years ago, I was eating
less than 10 percent fat. Now that I'm doing low carb, I'm doing less than
10 % carbs most days.

ARe you saying that you're doing less than 10% carbs and less than 10% fat,
meaning that upwards of 80% of your calories are coming from protein? If
not, I don't call that LF and LC.

Now, I purposely limit my fat intake plenty of times, simply because lots of
high fat food have high amoutns of calories, and I limit calories to 2000
per day (there abouts and for most days during a month). So I will
frequently pick a lean meat (chicken breast) instead of fatty meat like some
cuts of beef.

Finally, notice I did say LF and LC, as did the original poster. Since those
terms weren't definited, I used the typical meaning. One can make LC into a
lower fat version that some people might eat.

::
:: Duffy
:: 182/124
:: since 12-01-01

You're not Duffy Pratt, right?


  #26  
Old September 30th, 2003, 08:46 PM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default High protein, low carb, low fat diet?

Yes, but you told a 120 lb lady that she needs less than 12g of protein per
day to gain muscle.

Ignoramus16314 wrote:
:: An interesting post.
::
:: Myself, I did not advocate eating "less meat" or anything of the
:: sort. Meat is great and I love it. That was not the point of my
:: recent
:: posts in this thread. I was just exposing the fallacy of assuming
:: that
:: large doses of protein (as opposed to normal doses of protein), would
:: benefit a regular person who does a little bit of exercising, as far
:: as building muscle strength or size is concerned.
::
:: i
::
:: In article , Duffy
:: wrote:
::: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
::: ...
:::: tHatDudeUK wrote:
:::::: "Ignoramus3739" wrote in
:::::: message
:::::: ...
::::::: I have no idea... but I would be a little wary of radical diets.
:::::::
::::::: How tall are you, what's your weight etc, how much are you
::::::: trying to
::::::: lose?
::::::
:::::: 6' 3" (190 cm)
:::::: 14 stone (89 Kg)
:::::: Hoping to lose 2-3 stone (15-20 kg) [or convert fat to muscle
:::::: somehow] Age 23 years
:::::: No known health problems.
::::::
:::::: I have (I'm guessing in comparison with the average male of my
:::::: age)
:::::: low muscle tone, strength and stamina (my g/f can beat me at
:::::: arm-wrestling [which isn't very good, how ashamed I am :-)]).
::::::
:::::: I also have a big belly I'd like to get rid of.
::::::
:::::: Any further thoughts on possible diet?
::::
:::: Yeah, forgot this high protein, low carb, low fat diet and just do
:::: low carb.
:::: Lift weights, do cardio and eat low carb. I've lost 117 lbs so
:::: far, and I'm
:::: very happy. Muscle, stamina, and strength have all increased,
:::: while fat has
:::: decreased. Tone is greatly improved.
::::
:::: Doing low fat and low carb will make you miserable. It is likely
:::: you won't
:::: be able to stay on such a diet for very long. Be sure to eat lot
:::: of high
:::: fiber veggies.
::::
:::: And if you don't like low carb, then do low fat. But LC is better
:::: imo
:::: because it usually prevents muscle loss compared to low fat.
:::
::: Roger, Roger, Roger, doing low fat and low carb doesn't make me
::: miserable! I'll tell you, I get crazy when see statements like
::: "Doing
::: low fat and low carb will make you miserable." because while the
::: statement might be true for you, it is not true for all.
:::
::: Not everyone can take the high-fat regime of the Atkins diet. I
::: can't.
::: My digestion doesn't tolerate more than a taste of mayo, heavy
::: cream,
::: butter, etc. Fat on meat makes me really sick. I've been in the ER
::: more than once because I ate too much fat. Granted, I am on the
::: extreme end of the scale. However, I know that other folks out find
::: that the high fat content of the typical Atkins diet doesn't agree
::: with them. Or they don't choose to do it. Yes I know that the
::: results
::: about dietary fat and heart disease are inconclusive. But some
::: people
::: believe it. And those folks still want to eat low carb.
:::
::: Either way, a person can eat very happily from a reasonable low-fat,
::: low-carb diet. It takes a little more planning. It takes learning
::: about nutrional values. But it can be done. I'm living proof. And
::: now,
::: so are my husband and son!!!!!!!
:::
::: Is my diet the Ornish low fat diet? Of course not. But is my diet
::: lower in fat than the typical Atkins plan. Yeppers. It
::: works-honestly.
::: And I'm not the least bit miserable. (At least not about the food
::: part
::: of my life!!!)
:::
::: Duffy
::: 182/124
::: since 12-01-01


  #27  
Old October 1st, 2003, 12:03 AM
Roger Zoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default High protein, low carb, low fat diet?

Ignoramus16314 wrote:
:: In article , jmk wrote:
::: On 9/29/2003 8:09 PM, determined wrote:
:::: "tHatDudeUK" wrote in
:::: message ...
::::
::::: How much protein should I be trying to stick to each day with
::::: such a diet?
::::: Any recommended foodstuffs?
::::
::::
:::: I eat about 1g per lb of bodyweight - 120g. I also lift weights 3
:::: x per
:::: week, so I'm looking to build muscle, which requires more
:::: protein...
:::
::: "while a number of athletes and body builders believe that a
::: high-protein diet is crucial to their physical performance and
::: training,
::: Metges and Barth found no evidence in the scientific literature to
::: support this assumption."
:::
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_56941.htm?lastselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
:::
::
:: an outstanding link.
::

What's so outstanding about this link? Article says practically nothing
except tha there is not enough data to based a conclusion, and the WHO is
just guess and recommended protein intake levels.


 




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