SWWC Update, week 10 - Joyce and program comparison

I break a sweat eating Thai food and don't think I can count that as
activity - well, not points subtracted anyway (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever had Thai food. Hub doesn't like spicy food, so try
to keep things rather simple at my end. I'm not too sure I would like the
sweating either ... need a bit more of a tamed down version for me.

I really like the flavor combinations of Thai. Basil, lemon and lime,
cilantro and coconut milks. Great stuff and I don't do it too hot. I
learned when my parents visited and went without heat that it still
tasted terrific and so really "milded" it down myself after that.

Maybe you should post a few recipes for us challenged folks? G I use basil,
lemon and lime quite a bit, haven't delved much into cilantro or coconut milk ...
not quite sure what dh will think. My daughter and I are the experimental types,
figure he worse thing that will happen is dinner will be tossed and we'll settle
for a quick sandwich.

Yes, you have to have a good feel for what YOU are doing. And I know
from UPHILL. It was one of the things that probably sent me to WW.
It was getting harder and harder. And I felt like xxxx!

It was only 3 weeks ago that I started back on the treadmill, at a nice flat
surface. For some reason I just started sliding buttons around - then started
huffing and puffing. G Monday I rearranged all the settings, made the routine
into a constant incline. Today I realized the legs barely noticed when the
treadmill made those automatic changes in incline - so I must be getting some
benefit out of the routine. STill sweating madly, decided I need to haul a towel
downstairs to hang on the treadmill ... my t-shirt is getting worn out from
mopping myself. G

Sounds like a very fancy treadmill - that adjusts when you program
it?? I can manually raise/lower my nordic track. I have it on a
slight rise. BORING!

I suppose it was fancy when we bought it ... about 10 or so years ago - not so
sure by todays standards though. You can set it to run a pre-determined program
by a slidey button to indicate length of time, then there are 8 more slidey
buttons to set the incline level ... set those, press a button to run the program,
and off you go. You can override the programming by using a seperate button to
manually raise/lower the incline - but then the entire program stops and you have
to keep adjusting. It is a nice machine and has served us well over the years,
now is starting to function a little funky. I will admit that it still does tend
to get boring, even with the distraction of the television running. There have
been days I've been ready to just hop off it, other things I could be doing ... so
far I haven't caved ... until today - but for other reasons. I decided it isn't
good to try and exercise when fighting dizziness and a pounding headache. g


Hub broke out into his own sweat today though, when I told him I was going to buy
a new treadmill - ours now seems to have a mind of it's own. I set it for one
speed, and it varies on it's own. It's very frustrating to be walking at one
speed then suddenly dropping about .8 MPH, then reverting ... constantly. I'd
like to get one with somewhat of a padded base - then sonny boy would be able to
usit also (he has knee problems from a past injury).

It sounds like you use it so it would be worth the investment. Let
hubby sweat (G)

A few months ago I would have to disagree, for the most part it was collecting
dust. I have become much more diligent now and do feel I will continue. Hubby
will get over the wallet shock, I just have to get around to making a decision ...
probably Thanksgiving break when sonny boy is around and I can con him into
carrying. g

I have to surmise that unless WW is now into weight-gain antics, that
eating all of one's normal points PLUS the 35 flex points would still
lead to a loss. Maybe small but still it should lead to losses.
Getting activity should hasten the loss if not taken as additional
food.

That would be what I would think also. Would they really want their customer base
to not lose weight? If so, I wouldn't think people would stick around long ... and
their reputation would be at stake. Would they aim for smaller/slower losses
though? Maybe, maybe not.

It appears that some are doing very well. So maybe folks really do
need more food. And the FLEX Points help folks tweak. Really, if
they are not losing, they should slow down use of flex. And if they
are inclined to "cheat" then they would have done so on the old
program, too. Motivation is what matters and then folks can work out
what works for them.

The longer I work with it, the more I can see where I can play with it. I no
longer see that large number that is constantly in front of me - I don't think
about the flexpoints availability. If I use 'em, I use 'em. If we think about
it, the logic behind the program hasn't changed at all. And you are right. If we
fool ourselves as to what or how much we are eating, we can make the math work
however we want ... then place the blame on the program instead of on ourselves.
The only ones we cheat, are ourselves. My motivation still is running high. I'm
hoping it remains, and so far don't see any reason why it shouldn't.

I am back with family at the moment and they are all going - "you'll
keep it off, right. You look great." So now I have a bunch of nags
helping provide incentive. (g)

Nags are good! Unfortunately I don't have any nags anymore. Family members must
have become used to the thinner me, no one says anything ... or they're afraid to.
For now I am my own nag.

Now one definite variable that needs to be considered is the break
between ranges. Clearly, if someone weighs 150 they really do need
less points overall (in loss or maintenance) than someone at the top
of their range.

That is very true, and something I never once gave a thought to prior to my days
on ww. I even admit to questioning it when I first started the program. NOW I
understand, and believe! I definitely do not need as much food now as I did 90
pounds ago, nor do I want it.

I'm not even talking about that 90 pound change. Just a change from
175 down to 150. I mean WW needed some bright line so they chose
those 25 pound increments but someone at 150 needs less calories
(points) to stay there than a 175 pound person. And the same goes for
a 5'8" person at the 164 top of WW Charts and the person 30 pounds
lighter but also 5'8" at the other end of the charts. Each person
and as you indicate, body-type, needs to really figure it and and
tailor it as necessary.

True. And I think that *need* could change even if we find ourselves maintaining
a constant weight. Lifestyle changes, job changes, etc. ... all will change how
much our bodies actually need to keep working properly. It's a guessing game.

That sums it up. We just need or needed to establish the right
feedback mechanism so that we know how to control weight but adding or
removing food. And we can have a fun day or two and recover knowing
what is necessary.

I'm just not sure what that feedback mechanism is, other than reality and common
sense. I'm having a hard time finding a good mix right now ...either I eat too
much or too little, doesn't seem to be any middle ground for me lately. Too much
going on or too tired to put much effort out. But the weight issue and food
choices are still forefront in my brain, so I seem to be balancing things out
healthwise somewhere along the way.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not really worrying anymore
about Flex points. Or even the other system we just left. I need to
figure out what I need. And even that will not be static. As today's
FALL-like bike ride showed - it is cooler and I will be doing less
activity and therefore, it really does not matter what the charts
might say this week. Next week will be different - the bike rides
shorter, the lake walks less often as it is dark in the evening.

I know you're right, it's frightening to take that first step though. And you
know, all along I have questioned that *have to start with a clean slate each
week* theory. Why? My body does not know one day from another. If it takes more
on Monday, might need less the following wednesday ... it all should even out.
And sometimes life just throws us curveballs that prevents us from getting out and
going on that bike ride. G

That curve ball is the hard one. Eating in advance of the activity
(the old carbo loading) falls apart when you awake the next day and
find it is raining and those carbos are not doing what they were
suppose to. That is when I SHOULD turn to the nordic track but hate
it (G)

I've never done the advance carbo loading, but honestly don't have any reason to
since I'm not undertaking any lengthy activities. I can see where you could get
into trouble with it though. G I'm not a big fan of the indoor exercise either,
but I have convinced myself that it is better than nothing ... so off I now go. I
bought myself a small tv with a dvd player, bought some mindless television series
dvd sets and only allow myself to watch them when I am on the treadmill. It's
*my* time. So far it has worked, but I'm going to have to break down and find
another series soon ... I'm going to complete 4 seasons of Friends in the next
week or so. Maybe then I'll have to venture on to some of the movies hubbie won't
watch with me. G

That's how my brother-in-law has kept his weight off. Treadmill and
walking and dvd movies. (g) I watch the news on the nordic track and
that probably only increases the boredom (g

Yea, the news isn't good at keeping the mind off of what you are doing. I find
the old mindless sitcoms work for me, they keep me laughing anyway. And they are
something that hub doesn't enjoy, so it becomes *my* time. I won't spend my
daytime alone hours in front of the tv, I'm not much of a tv person ... so
limiting them to the treadmill works perfect for me. Also gives me something to
look forward to ... sorta. g

I guess I could possible hook this computer up to the small tv and
watch dvd's.

I started with the computer hooked up, but it became a pain to haul the laptop up
and down the stairs daily. I also had to hook an external pair of speakers to it,
since the internal ones weren't loud enough to be heard over the racket of the
machinery. Guess it gave me an excuse to go out and buy myself another *toy*. g

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 133.3
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:20:09 -0500, Joyce wrote:


I break a sweat eating Thai food and don't think I can count that as
activity - well, not points subtracted anyway (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever had Thai food. Hub doesn't like spicy food, so try
to keep things rather simple at my end. I'm not too sure I would like the
sweating either ... need a bit more of a tamed down version for me.

I really like the flavor combinations of Thai. Basil, lemon and lime,
cilantro and coconut milks. Great stuff and I don't do it too hot. I
learned when my parents visited and went without heat that it still
tasted terrific and so really "milded" it down myself after that.

Maybe you should post a few recipes for us challenged folks? G I use basil,
lemon and lime quite a bit, haven't delved much into cilantro or coconut milk ...
not quite sure what dh will think. My daughter and I are the experimental types,
figure he worse thing that will happen is dinner will be tossed and we'll settle
for a quick sandwich.

Oh, I don't cook it. I restaurant it! (g) But have gone with much
less heat and it still is terrific food. Well, it was before WW
showed me the point values for stuff.

Last night was dinner out - Birthday (a bit bitter-sweet since dad
just passed away). It was a two dessert day. At lunch and dinner.
More down below on Maintenance.....

Yes, you have to have a good feel for what YOU are doing. And I know
from UPHILL. It was one of the things that probably sent me to WW.
It was getting harder and harder. And I felt like xxxx!

It was only 3 weeks ago that I started back on the treadmill, at a nice flat
surface. For some reason I just started sliding buttons around - then started
huffing and puffing. G Monday I rearranged all the settings, made the routine
into a constant incline. Today I realized the legs barely noticed when the
treadmill made those automatic changes in incline - so I must be getting some
benefit out of the routine. STill sweating madly, decided I need to haul a towel
downstairs to hang on the treadmill ... my t-shirt is getting worn out from
mopping myself. G

Sounds like a very fancy treadmill - that adjusts when you program
it?? I can manually raise/lower my nordic track. I have it on a
slight rise. BORING!

I suppose it was fancy when we bought it ... about 10 or so years ago - not so
sure by todays standards though. You can set it to run a pre-determined program
by a slidey button to indicate length of time, then there are 8 more slidey
buttons to set the incline level ... set those, press a button to run the program,
and off you go. You can override the programming by using a seperate button to
manually raise/lower the incline - but then the entire program stops and you have
to keep adjusting. It is a nice machine and has served us well over the years,
now is starting to function a little funky. I will admit that it still does tend
to get boring, even with the distraction of the television running. There have
been days I've been ready to just hop off it, other things I could be doing ... so
far I haven't caved ... until today - but for other reasons. I decided it isn't
good to try and exercise when fighting dizziness and a pounding headache. g

I wonder if that kind of programming would hold my interest better.
But then I would have to really decide I would use it. Probably best
to find a gym somewhere and see how I react to it for a while.

Hub broke out into his own sweat today though, when I told him I was going to buy
a new treadmill - ours now seems to have a mind of it's own. I set it for one
speed, and it varies on it's own. It's very frustrating to be walking at one
speed then suddenly dropping about .8 MPH, then reverting ... constantly. I'd
like to get one with somewhat of a padded base - then sonny boy would be able to
usit also (he has knee problems from a past injury).

It sounds like you use it so it would be worth the investment. Let
hubby sweat (G)

A few months ago I would have to disagree, for the most part it was collecting
dust. I have become much more diligent now and do feel I will continue. Hubby
will get over the wallet shock, I just have to get around to making a decision ...
probably Thanksgiving break when sonny boy is around and I can con him into
carrying. g

Sounds like a plan and it sounds like you have figured out how to stay
on board (and off bored) to some extent.

I have to surmise that unless WW is now into weight-gain antics, that
eating all of one's normal points PLUS the 35 flex points would still
lead to a loss. Maybe small but still it should lead to losses.
Getting activity should hasten the loss if not taken as additional
food.

That would be what I would think also. Would they really want their customer base
to not lose weight? If so, I wouldn't think people would stick around long ... and
their reputation would be at stake. Would they aim for smaller/slower losses
though? Maybe, maybe not.

It appears that some are doing very well. So maybe folks really do
need more food. And the FLEX Points help folks tweak. Really, if
they are not losing, they should slow down use of flex. And if they
are inclined to "cheat" then they would have done so on the old
program, too. Motivation is what matters and then folks can work out
what works for them.

The longer I work with it, the more I can see where I can play with it. I no
longer see that large number that is constantly in front of me - I don't think
about the flexpoints availability. If I use 'em, I use 'em. If we think about
it, the logic behind the program hasn't changed at all. And you are right. If we
fool ourselves as to what or how much we are eating, we can make the math work
however we want ... then place the blame on the program instead of on ourselves.
The only ones we cheat, are ourselves. My motivation still is running high. I'm
hoping it remains, and so far don't see any reason why it shouldn't.

I am back with family at the moment and they are all going - "you'll
keep it off, right. You look great." So now I have a bunch of nags
helping provide incentive. (g)

Nags are good! Unfortunately I don't have any nags anymore. Family members must
have become used to the thinner me, no one says anything ... or they're afraid to.
For now I am my own nag.

Even last night, my friends were into sharing appetizers and desserts
to help me. Or was it to keep the bill down (G)

Now one definite variable that needs to be considered is the break
between ranges. Clearly, if someone weighs 150 they really do need
less points overall (in loss or maintenance) than someone at the top
of their range.

That is very true, and something I never once gave a thought to prior to my days
on ww. I even admit to questioning it when I first started the program. NOW I
understand, and believe! I definitely do not need as much food now as I did 90
pounds ago, nor do I want it.

I'm not even talking about that 90 pound change. Just a change from
175 down to 150. I mean WW needed some bright line so they chose
those 25 pound increments but someone at 150 needs less calories
(points) to stay there than a 175 pound person. And the same goes for
a 5'8" person at the 164 top of WW Charts and the person 30 pounds
lighter but also 5'8" at the other end of the charts. Each person
and as you indicate, body-type, needs to really figure it and and
tailor it as necessary.

True. And I think that *need* could change even if we find ourselves maintaining
a constant weight. Lifestyle changes, job changes, etc. ... all will change how
much our bodies actually need to keep working properly. It's a guessing game.

That sums it up. We just need or needed to establish the right
feedback mechanism so that we know how to control weight but adding or
removing food. And we can have a fun day or two and recover knowing
what is necessary.

I'm just not sure what that feedback mechanism is, other than reality and common
sense. I'm having a hard time finding a good mix right now ...either I eat too
much or too little, doesn't seem to be any middle ground for me lately. Too much
going on or too tired to put much effort out. But the weight issue and food
choices are still forefront in my brain, so I seem to be balancing things out
healthwise somewhere along the way.

Yes, that is it. Having missed two meetings, when I returned the
woman who had lost 100 pounds was there as well as some others. And
we got into a MAINTENANCE discussion. And what we discussed was that
there is not MAGIC POINT for Maintenance and Lifetime. It has to vary
daily and weekly by need. The 100 pound lost person just hurt her
foot and Tai Chi (spelling) is out for two weeks and she said she has
to cut back points. So last week's points values are out-the-window
and new ones temporarily installed. Common sense is the answer. But
that took a real grounding in portions and how "bad" some foods were
and how to deal with them in a daily reasonable manner.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not really worrying anymore
about Flex points. Or even the other system we just left. I need to
figure out what I need. And even that will not be static. As today's
FALL-like bike ride showed - it is cooler and I will be doing less
activity and therefore, it really does not matter what the charts
might say this week. Next week will be different - the bike rides
shorter, the lake walks less often as it is dark in the evening.

I know you're right, it's frightening to take that first step though. And you
know, all along I have questioned that *have to start with a clean slate each
week* theory. Why? My body does not know one day from another. If it takes more
on Monday, might need less the following wednesday ... it all should even out.
And sometimes life just throws us curveballs that prevents us from getting out and
going on that bike ride. G

That curve ball is the hard one. Eating in advance of the activity
(the old carbo loading) falls apart when you awake the next day and
find it is raining and those carbos are not doing what they were
suppose to. That is when I SHOULD turn to the nordic track but hate
it (G)

I've never done the advance carbo loading, but honestly don't have any reason to
since I'm not undertaking any lengthy activities. I can see where you could get
into trouble with it though. G I'm not a big fan of the indoor exercise either,
but I have convinced myself that it is better than nothing ... so off I now go. I
bought myself a small tv with a dvd player, bought some mindless television series
dvd sets and only allow myself to watch them when I am on the treadmill. It's
*my* time. So far it has worked, but I'm going to have to break down and find
another series soon ... I'm going to complete 4 seasons of Friends in the next
week or so. Maybe then I'll have to venture on to some of the movies hubbie won't
watch with me. G

That's how my brother-in-law has kept his weight off. Treadmill and
walking and dvd movies. (g) I watch the news on the nordic track and
that probably only increases the boredom (g

Yea, the news isn't good at keeping the mind off of what you are doing. I find
the old mindless sitcoms work for me, they keep me laughing anyway. And they are
something that hub doesn't enjoy, so it becomes *my* time. I won't spend my
daytime alone hours in front of the tv, I'm not much of a tv person ... so
limiting them to the treadmill works perfect for me. Also gives me something to
look forward to ... sorta. g

Yes, NEWS does not work to take one's mind away to another plane.

I guess I could possible hook this computer up to the small tv and
watch dvd's.

I started with the computer hooked up, but it became a pain to haul the laptop up
and down the stairs daily. I also had to hook an external pair of speakers to it,
since the internal ones weren't loud enough to be heard over the racket of the
machinery. Guess it gave me an excuse to go out and buy myself another *toy*. g

Oh, the noise level of my old bike wind trainer almost had me deaf
after I kept turning up the tv volumn. Finally got head phones which
helped. Hey, think of the extra points carrying the computer up/down
(G)


Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 133.3
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:33:46 -0700, Fred wrote:



On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:20:09 -0500, Joyce wrote:


I break a sweat eating Thai food and don't think I can count that as
activity - well, not points subtracted anyway (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever had Thai food. Hub doesn't like spicy food, so try
to keep things rather simple at my end. I'm not too sure I would like the
sweating either ... need a bit more of a tamed down version for me.

I really like the flavor combinations of Thai. Basil, lemon and lime,
cilantro and coconut milks. Great stuff and I don't do it too hot. I
learned when my parents visited and went without heat that it still
tasted terrific and so really "milded" it down myself after that.

Maybe you should post a few recipes for us challenged folks? G I use basil,
lemon and lime quite a bit, haven't delved much into cilantro or coconut milk ...
not quite sure what dh will think. My daughter and I are the experimental types,
figure he worse thing that will happen is dinner will be tossed and we'll settle
for a quick sandwich.

Oh, I don't cook it. I restaurant it! (g) But have gone with much
less heat and it still is terrific food. Well, it was before WW
showed me the point values for stuff.

Well dang, and here I was impressed with your culinary expertise! I wouldn't even
know where to look for a thai restaurant around here - but I'm sure there are many
.... just not something I've ever looked into. I do think it would be pretty hard
to get my dh to humor me and venture into a strange restaurant though. He isn't
the adventurous type, is more a creature of habit. G

Last night was dinner out - Birthday (a bit bitter-sweet since dad
just passed away). It was a two dessert day. At lunch and dinner.
More down below on Maintenance.....

Happy belated birthday! Sounds to me like you may just have needed those 2
desserts, sometimes you just have to give in to the emotions and all. With all
you've been through, I do hope you were still able to enjoy your special day.

Sounds like a very fancy treadmill - that adjusts when you program
it?? I can manually raise/lower my nordic track. I have it on a
slight rise. BORING!

I suppose it was fancy when we bought it ... about 10 or so years ago - not so
sure by todays standards though. You can set it to run a pre-determined program
by a slidey button to indicate length of time, then there are 8 more slidey
buttons to set the incline level ... set those, press a button to run the program,
and off you go. You can override the programming by using a seperate button to
manually raise/lower the incline - but then the entire program stops and you have
to keep adjusting. It is a nice machine and has served us well over the years,
now is starting to function a little funky. I will admit that it still does tend
to get boring, even with the distraction of the television running. There have
been days I've been ready to just hop off it, other things I could be doing ... so
far I haven't caved ... until today - but for other reasons. I decided it isn't
good to try and exercise when fighting dizziness and a pounding headache. g

I wonder if that kind of programming would hold my interest better.
But then I would have to really decide I would use it. Probably best
to find a gym somewhere and see how I react to it for a while.

I had joined a gym several years ago and did enjoy the nicer equipment they had
available. My problem was dragging myself out of the house to get there ... it
seemed like such a chore. Looking back now though, I think that may have been the
earliest signs of the more recent bout of depression ... not wanting/able to
participate in normal daily activities. I did end up dumping the membership,
again due to not going at all. There are no inexpensive gyms near me. The one I
belonged to was $150/month, even our local Y runs over $100/month. And they all
also require a one time registration fee, somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 (I
don't think the Y requires this). I figured I could buy some pretty nice
equipment and save myself some money.

Hub broke out into his own sweat today though, when I told him I was going to buy
a new treadmill - ours now seems to have a mind of it's own. I set it for one
speed, and it varies on it's own. It's very frustrating to be walking at one
speed then suddenly dropping about .8 MPH, then reverting ... constantly. I'd
like to get one with somewhat of a padded base - then sonny boy would be able to
usit also (he has knee problems from a past injury).

It sounds like you use it so it would be worth the investment. Let
hubby sweat (G)

A few months ago I would have to disagree, for the most part it was collecting
dust. I have become much more diligent now and do feel I will continue. Hubby
will get over the wallet shock, I just have to get around to making a decision ...
probably Thanksgiving break when sonny boy is around and I can con him into
carrying. g

Sounds like a plan and it sounds like you have figured out how to stay
on board (and off bored) to some extent.

To some extent. Instead of talking myself out of the exercise, I now talk myself
into it ... not sure if there really is a difference there. G I do find I have
to do it in the early morning or it doesn't get done. Sundays I usually skip,
just too hard to get away from everyone in the house - and there is nothing more
irritating that having the constant interuptions. I've raised a rather helpless
crew ... at least they are helpless when I am accessable.

The longer I work with it, the more I can see where I can play with it. I no
longer see that large number that is constantly in front of me - I don't think
about the flexpoints availability. If I use 'em, I use 'em. If we think about
it, the logic behind the program hasn't changed at all. And you are right. If we
fool ourselves as to what or how much we are eating, we can make the math work
however we want ... then place the blame on the program instead of on ourselves.
The only ones we cheat, are ourselves. My motivation still is running high. I'm
hoping it remains, and so far don't see any reason why it shouldn't.

I am back with family at the moment and they are all going - "you'll
keep it off, right. You look great." So now I have a bunch of nags
helping provide incentive. (g)

Nags are good! Unfortunately I don't have any nags anymore. Family members must
have become used to the thinner me, no one says anything ... or they're afraid to.
For now I am my own nag.

Even last night, my friends were into sharing appetizers and desserts
to help me. Or was it to keep the bill down (G)

Or maybe they are beginning to get more of a clue and following your example?
It's always more fun to share, you can have a tiny taste of everything and still
come out ok.

That sums it up. We just need or needed to establish the right
feedback mechanism so that we know how to control weight but adding or
removing food. And we can have a fun day or two and recover knowing
what is necessary.

I'm just not sure what that feedback mechanism is, other than reality and common
sense. I'm having a hard time finding a good mix right now ...either I eat too
much or too little, doesn't seem to be any middle ground for me lately. Too much
going on or too tired to put much effort out. But the weight issue and food
choices are still forefront in my brain, so I seem to be balancing things out
healthwise somewhere along the way.

Yes, that is it. Having missed two meetings, when I returned the
woman who had lost 100 pounds was there as well as some others. And
we got into a MAINTENANCE discussion. And what we discussed was that
there is not MAGIC POINT for Maintenance and Lifetime. It has to vary
daily and weekly by need. The 100 pound lost person just hurt her
foot and Tai Chi (spelling) is out for two weeks and she said she has
to cut back points. So last week's points values are out-the-window
and new ones temporarily installed. Common sense is the answer. But
that took a real grounding in portions and how "bad" some foods were
and how to deal with them in a daily reasonable manner.

Wow, I am impressed. I think you are the first person I've heard that has said a
meeting actually focused on a maintenance topic! Common sense is the best
description I have heard, is the trick in a nutshell. We can only use those
*numbers* as guidance, but will always have other issues that will need to be
taken into consideration. Portions will always play an important role in this
game plan. I know I can cook a wonderful lowpoint meal that daughter and I will
love, and portions aren't really much of an issue (as it is so low in points).
Son and dh like heavier things, so strategy has to be very different. Last night
I threw a requested pot roast in ... I loaded up on the veggies, lightened up on
the beef. When they want their burgers from the local joint, I now order the one
from the childrens menu. If I get the adult one, I eat the whole dang thing and
am miserable ... so why do it? The childrens portion is absolutely fine, and I am
still content.

That's how my brother-in-law has kept his weight off. Treadmill and
walking and dvd movies. (g) I watch the news on the nordic track and
that probably only increases the boredom (g

Yea, the news isn't good at keeping the mind off of what you are doing. I find
the old mindless sitcoms work for me, they keep me laughing anyway. And they are
something that hub doesn't enjoy, so it becomes *my* time. I won't spend my
daytime alone hours in front of the tv, I'm not much of a tv person ... so
limiting them to the treadmill works perfect for me. Also gives me something to
look forward to ... sorta. g

Yes, NEWS does not work to take one's mind away to another plane.

I guess I could possible hook this computer up to the small tv and
watch dvd's.

I started with the computer hooked up, but it became a pain to haul the laptop up
and down the stairs daily. I also had to hook an external pair of speakers to it,
since the internal ones weren't loud enough to be heard over the racket of the
machinery. Guess it gave me an excuse to go out and buy myself another *toy*. g

Oh, the noise level of my old bike wind trainer almost had me deaf
after I kept turning up the tv volumn. Finally got head phones which
helped. Hey, think of the extra points carrying the computer up/down
(G)

LOL! I never thought of it that way, I was always too worried about dropping the
thing on the trip down. We have *scary* stairs as the kids used to say ... old
house, steep wooden stairs, no handrails and no wall to hang onto. Heck, I
probably worked off points just worrying!

Joyce

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:46:49 -0500, Joyce wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:33:46 -0700, Fred wrote:



On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:20:09 -0500, Joyce wrote:


I break a sweat eating Thai food and don't think I can count that as
activity - well, not points subtracted anyway (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever had Thai food. Hub doesn't like spicy food, so try
to keep things rather simple at my end. I'm not too sure I would like the
sweating either ... need a bit more of a tamed down version for me.

I really like the flavor combinations of Thai. Basil, lemon and lime,
cilantro and coconut milks. Great stuff and I don't do it too hot. I
learned when my parents visited and went without heat that it still
tasted terrific and so really "milded" it down myself after that.

Maybe you should post a few recipes for us challenged folks? G I use basil,
lemon and lime quite a bit, haven't delved much into cilantro or coconut milk ...
not quite sure what dh will think. My daughter and I are the experimental types,
figure he worse thing that will happen is dinner will be tossed and we'll settle
for a quick sandwich.

Oh, I don't cook it. I restaurant it! (g) But have gone with much
less heat and it still is terrific food. Well, it was before WW
showed me the point values for stuff.

Well dang, and here I was impressed with your culinary expertise! I wouldn't even
know where to look for a thai restaurant around here - but I'm sure there are many
... just not something I've ever looked into. I do think it would be pretty hard
to get my dh to humor me and venture into a strange restaurant though. He isn't
the adventurous type, is more a creature of habit. G

Last night was dinner out - Birthday (a bit bitter-sweet since dad
just passed away). It was a two dessert day. At lunch and dinner.
More down below on Maintenance.....

Happy belated birthday! Sounds to me like you may just have needed those 2
desserts, sometimes you just have to give in to the emotions and all. With all
you've been through, I do hope you were still able to enjoy your special day.

Sounds like a very fancy treadmill - that adjusts when you program
it?? I can manually raise/lower my nordic track. I have it on a
slight rise. BORING!

I suppose it was fancy when we bought it ... about 10 or so years ago - not so
sure by todays standards though. You can set it to run a pre-determined program
by a slidey button to indicate length of time, then there are 8 more slidey
buttons to set the incline level ... set those, press a button to run the program,
and off you go. You can override the programming by using a seperate button to
manually raise/lower the incline - but then the entire program stops and you have
to keep adjusting. It is a nice machine and has served us well over the years,
now is starting to function a little funky. I will admit that it still does tend
to get boring, even with the distraction of the television running. There have
been days I've been ready to just hop off it, other things I could be doing ... so
far I haven't caved ... until today - but for other reasons. I decided it isn't
good to try and exercise when fighting dizziness and a pounding headache. g

I wonder if that kind of programming would hold my interest better.
But then I would have to really decide I would use it. Probably best
to find a gym somewhere and see how I react to it for a while.

I had joined a gym several years ago and did enjoy the nicer equipment they had
available. My problem was dragging myself out of the house to get there ... it
seemed like such a chore. Looking back now though, I think that may have been the
earliest signs of the more recent bout of depression ... not wanting/able to
participate in normal daily activities. I did end up dumping the membership,
again due to not going at all. There are no inexpensive gyms near me. The one I
belonged to was $150/month, even our local Y runs over $100/month. And they all
also require a one time registration fee, somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 (I
don't think the Y requires this). I figured I could buy some pretty nice
equipment and save myself some money.

That can describe me - once I nest for the day - that's it. Yesterday
after a bike ride I knew that I had to walk to the video store to
return a film and it was quickly or it would be a day or two late. So
I took the 10 block walk right after my shower. 10 each way!

Hub broke out into his own sweat today though, when I told him I was going to buy
a new treadmill - ours now seems to have a mind of it's own. I set it for one
speed, and it varies on it's own. It's very frustrating to be walking at one
speed then suddenly dropping about .8 MPH, then reverting ... constantly. I'd
like to get one with somewhat of a padded base - then sonny boy would be able to
usit also (he has knee problems from a past injury).

It sounds like you use it so it would be worth the investment. Let
hubby sweat (G)

A few months ago I would have to disagree, for the most part it was collecting
dust. I have become much more diligent now and do feel I will continue. Hubby
will get over the wallet shock, I just have to get around to making a decision ...
probably Thanksgiving break when sonny boy is around and I can con him into
carrying. g

Sounds like a plan and it sounds like you have figured out how to stay
on board (and off bored) to some extent.

To some extent. Instead of talking myself out of the exercise, I now talk myself
into it ... not sure if there really is a difference there. G I do find I have
to do it in the early morning or it doesn't get done. Sundays I usually skip,
just too hard to get away from everyone in the house - and there is nothing more
irritating that having the constant interuptions. I've raised a rather helpless
crew ... at least they are helpless when I am accessable.

Today is a hike and I can tell if others were not going I might bag
it. I can tell the biorhythms are down. But now that I've had my can
of sardines and bowl of soy granola I have to work them off (G)


The longer I work with it, the more I can see where I can play with it. I no
longer see that large number that is constantly in front of me - I don't think
about the flexpoints availability. If I use 'em, I use 'em. If we think about
it, the logic behind the program hasn't changed at all. And you are right. If we
fool ourselves as to what or how much we are eating, we can make the math work
however we want ... then place the blame on the program instead of on ourselves.
The only ones we cheat, are ourselves. My motivation still is running high. I'm
hoping it remains, and so far don't see any reason why it shouldn't.

I am back with family at the moment and they are all going - "you'll
keep it off, right. You look great." So now I have a bunch of nags
helping provide incentive. (g)

Nags are good! Unfortunately I don't have any nags anymore. Family members must
have become used to the thinner me, no one says anything ... or they're afraid to.
For now I am my own nag.

Even last night, my friends were into sharing appetizers and desserts
to help me. Or was it to keep the bill down (G)

Or maybe they are beginning to get more of a clue and following your example?
It's always more fun to share, you can have a tiny taste of everything and still
come out ok.

That sums it up. We just need or needed to establish the right
feedback mechanism so that we know how to control weight but adding or
removing food. And we can have a fun day or two and recover knowing
what is necessary.

I'm just not sure what that feedback mechanism is, other than reality and common
sense. I'm having a hard time finding a good mix right now ...either I eat too
much or too little, doesn't seem to be any middle ground for me lately. Too much
going on or too tired to put much effort out. But the weight issue and food
choices are still forefront in my brain, so I seem to be balancing things out
healthwise somewhere along the way.

Yes, that is it. Having missed two meetings, when I returned the
woman who had lost 100 pounds was there as well as some others. And
we got into a MAINTENANCE discussion. And what we discussed was that
there is not MAGIC POINT for Maintenance and Lifetime. It has to vary
daily and weekly by need. The 100 pound lost person just hurt her
foot and Tai Chi (spelling) is out for two weeks and she said she has
to cut back points. So last week's points values are out-the-window
and new ones temporarily installed. Common sense is the answer. But
that took a real grounding in portions and how "bad" some foods were
and how to deal with them in a daily reasonable manner.

Wow, I am impressed. I think you are the first person I've heard that has said a
meeting actually focused on a maintenance topic! Common sense is the best
description I have heard, is the trick in a nutshell. We can only use those
*numbers* as guidance, but will always have other issues that will need to be
taken into consideration. Portions will always play an important role in this
game plan. I know I can cook a wonderful lowpoint meal that daughter and I will
love, and portions aren't really much of an issue (as it is so low in points).
Son and dh like heavier things, so strategy has to be very different. Last night
I threw a requested pot roast in ... I loaded up on the veggies, lightened up on
the beef. When they want their burgers from the local joint, I now order the one
from the childrens menu. If I get the adult one, I eat the whole dang thing and
am miserable ... so why do it? The childrens portion is absolutely fine, and I am
still content.

I think we steered the discussion toward Maintenance - it is this "out
there" subject and is mysterious to those not there (as well as to
those who are) and so the leader said it is not mysterious - you just
need to experiment with the tools you already have by adding and
subtracting to find a place where you hover. But our leader strays
regularly during the regular meeting to address "issues" and then
quickly covers the topic of the day. I prefer it that way, too.

I am doing well now, even in restaurants - take food home is really
the answer. Maybe not half a burger but other meals including a week
or so ago, half a big bowl of oatmeal. It served another breakfast
well. It is my snacks where I really need to WATCH things.
Munching in front of the computer can be aimless.

That's how my brother-in-law has kept his weight off. Treadmill and
walking and dvd movies. (g) I watch the news on the nordic track and
that probably only increases the boredom (g

Yea, the news isn't good at keeping the mind off of what you are doing. I find
the old mindless sitcoms work for me, they keep me laughing anyway. And they are
something that hub doesn't enjoy, so it becomes *my* time. I won't spend my
daytime alone hours in front of the tv, I'm not much of a tv person ... so
limiting them to the treadmill works perfect for me. Also gives me something to
look forward to ... sorta. g

Yes, NEWS does not work to take one's mind away to another plane.

I guess I could possible hook this computer up to the small tv and
watch dvd's.

I started with the computer hooked up, but it became a pain to haul the laptop up
and down the stairs daily. I also had to hook an external pair of speakers to it,
since the internal ones weren't loud enough to be heard over the racket of the
machinery. Guess it gave me an excuse to go out and buy myself another *toy*. g

Oh, the noise level of my old bike wind trainer almost had me deaf
after I kept turning up the tv volumn. Finally got head phones which
helped. Hey, think of the extra points carrying the computer up/down
(G)

LOL! I never thought of it that way, I was always too worried about dropping the
thing on the trip down. We have *scary* stairs as the kids used to say ... old
house, steep wooden stairs, no handrails and no wall to hang onto. Heck, I
probably worked off points just worrying!

Sounds like my stairs. But I have a handrail but not with hands busy.
But I also cling to the wall. I used it a lot when I had the vertigo!

Joyce

Sounds like a very fancy treadmill - that adjusts when you program
it?? I can manually raise/lower my nordic track. I have it on a
slight rise. BORING!

I suppose it was fancy when we bought it ... about 10 or so years ago - not so
sure by todays standards though. You can set it to run a pre-determined program
by a slidey button to indicate length of time, then there are 8 more slidey
buttons to set the incline level ... set those, press a button to run the program,
and off you go. You can override the programming by using a seperate button to
manually raise/lower the incline - but then the entire program stops and you have
to keep adjusting. It is a nice machine and has served us well over the years,
now is starting to function a little funky. I will admit that it still does tend
to get boring, even with the distraction of the television running. There have
been days I've been ready to just hop off it, other things I could be doing ... so
far I haven't caved ... until today - but for other reasons. I decided it isn't
good to try and exercise when fighting dizziness and a pounding headache. g

I wonder if that kind of programming would hold my interest better.
But then I would have to really decide I would use it. Probably best
to find a gym somewhere and see how I react to it for a while.

I had joined a gym several years ago and did enjoy the nicer equipment they had
available. My problem was dragging myself out of the house to get there ... it
seemed like such a chore. Looking back now though, I think that may have been the
earliest signs of the more recent bout of depression ... not wanting/able to
participate in normal daily activities. I did end up dumping the membership,
again due to not going at all. There are no inexpensive gyms near me. The one I
belonged to was $150/month, even our local Y runs over $100/month. And they all
also require a one time registration fee, somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 (I
don't think the Y requires this). I figured I could buy some pretty nice
equipment and save myself some money.

That can describe me - once I nest for the day - that's it. Yesterday
after a bike ride I knew that I had to walk to the video store to
return a film and it was quickly or it would be a day or two late. So
I took the 10 block walk right after my shower. 10 each way!

EXACTLY! That's why even with the treadmill, I have to do it early in the day or
I know I won't ever get around to it. Goofy question for ya ... why didn't you
incorporate the video return into your bike ride, knock off 2 birds with one
stone? g

To some extent. Instead of talking myself out of the exercise, I now talk myself
into it ... not sure if there really is a difference there. G I do find I have
to do it in the early morning or it doesn't get done. Sundays I usually skip,
just too hard to get away from everyone in the house - and there is nothing more
irritating that having the constant interuptions. I've raised a rather helpless
crew ... at least they are helpless when I am accessable.

Today is a hike and I can tell if others were not going I might bag
it. I can tell the biorhythms are down. But now that I've had my can
of sardines and bowl of soy granola I have to work them off (G)

Can we blame it on the weather again? I slept in this morning, didn't make the
treadmill routine ... of course, didn't help that I wasn't able to fall asleep
until sometime after 6AM ... so waking at 10:30 really isn't much of a sleep-in.
By that time I was waiting for sonny boy to call to let me know if he would be
coming home for dinner or not, and I hate getting calls once I start walking.
Excuses, excuses. g Breakfast was fruit and coffee, too close to lunchtime.
I'll drag dh out for a walk around the neighborhood this afternoon. Not quite the
same workout as I get on the treadmill, but definitely better than nothing ... and
I don't want to get into the nothing routine.

Yes, that is it. Having missed two meetings, when I returned the
woman who had lost 100 pounds was there as well as some others. And
we got into a MAINTENANCE discussion. And what we discussed was that
there is not MAGIC POINT for Maintenance and Lifetime. It has to vary
daily and weekly by need. The 100 pound lost person just hurt her
foot and Tai Chi (spelling) is out for two weeks and she said she has
to cut back points. So last week's points values are out-the-window
and new ones temporarily installed. Common sense is the answer. But
that took a real grounding in portions and how "bad" some foods were
and how to deal with them in a daily reasonable manner.

Wow, I am impressed. I think you are the first person I've heard that has said a
meeting actually focused on a maintenance topic! Common sense is the best
description I have heard, is the trick in a nutshell. We can only use those
*numbers* as guidance, but will always have other issues that will need to be
taken into consideration. Portions will always play an important role in this
game plan. I know I can cook a wonderful lowpoint meal that daughter and I will
love, and portions aren't really much of an issue (as it is so low in points).
Son and dh like heavier things, so strategy has to be very different. Last night
I threw a requested pot roast in ... I loaded up on the veggies, lightened up on
the beef. When they want their burgers from the local joint, I now order the one
from the childrens menu. If I get the adult one, I eat the whole dang thing and
am miserable ... so why do it? The childrens portion is absolutely fine, and I am
still content.

I think we steered the discussion toward Maintenance - it is this "out
there" subject and is mysterious to those not there (as well as to
those who are) and so the leader said it is not mysterious - you just
need to experiment with the tools you already have by adding and
subtracting to find a place where you hover. But our leader strays
regularly during the regular meeting to address "issues" and then
quickly covers the topic of the day. I prefer it that way, too.

It's nice to hear that maintenance is discussed on occassion. I was beginning to
think this was a subject that was avoided. I know it is experimental, but there
still are a lot of issues, concerns and tactics that are good to share with
others.

I am doing well now, even in restaurants - take food home is really
the answer. Maybe not half a burger but other meals including a week
or so ago, half a big bowl of oatmeal. It served another breakfast
well. It is my snacks where I really need to WATCH things.
Munching in front of the computer can be aimless.

I'm still trying to learn how to cook in smaller quantities, not an easy task to
accomplish. I always worry that there won't be enough for everyone, so usually
end up with too many leftovers. I'm working on it. Carry-in works well at
handling that portion control issue. I'm getting better at the snacking. Evening
computer time had always been my worst time, now it doesn't seem to be too bad. I
have my meringues, put them in a bowl and that's it. My downfall seems to be the
time when I try and keep dh company in front of the television ... I'm bored, and
I'm a boredom eater. THIS is when I want my cakes, cookies, icecream, etc. I
continue to talk myself out of them, and reach for fruit or make a salad. Most of
the time it works, sometimes it doesn't. There is always some area that I need to
continue working on. G It isn't going to help that dh brought in a small tray
of chocolate brownies today ... says they're for daughter, but you know how that
goes. G

That's how my brother-in-law has kept his weight off. Treadmill and
walking and dvd movies. (g) I watch the news on the nordic track and
that probably only increases the boredom (g

Yea, the news isn't good at keeping the mind off of what you are doing. I find
the old mindless sitcoms work for me, they keep me laughing anyway. And they are
something that hub doesn't enjoy, so it becomes *my* time. I won't spend my
daytime alone hours in front of the tv, I'm not much of a tv person ... so
limiting them to the treadmill works perfect for me. Also gives me something to
look forward to ... sorta. g

Yes, NEWS does not work to take one's mind away to another plane.

I guess I could possible hook this computer up to the small tv and
watch dvd's.

I started with the computer hooked up, but it became a pain to haul the laptop up
and down the stairs daily. I also had to hook an external pair of speakers to it,
since the internal ones weren't loud enough to be heard over the racket of the
machinery. Guess it gave me an excuse to go out and buy myself another *toy*. g

Oh, the noise level of my old bike wind trainer almost had me deaf
after I kept turning up the tv volumn. Finally got head phones which
helped. Hey, think of the extra points carrying the computer up/down
(G)

LOL! I never thought of it that way, I was always too worried about dropping the
thing on the trip down. We have *scary* stairs as the kids used to say ... old
house, steep wooden stairs, no handrails and no wall to hang onto. Heck, I
probably worked off points just worrying!

Sounds like my stairs. But I have a handrail but not with hands busy.
But I also cling to the wall. I used it a lot when I had the vertigo!

WE do have half a wall ... as in it is present for the first half of the trip
down. I did lean on it for a bit, then have to hurry the bottom part of the trip.
G

Joyce

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:28:00 -0500, Joyce wrote:


Sounds like a very fancy treadmill - that adjusts when you program
it?? I can manually raise/lower my nordic track. I have it on a
slight rise. BORING!

I suppose it was fancy when we bought it ... about 10 or so years ago - not so
sure by todays standards though. You can set it to run a pre-determined program
by a slidey button to indicate length of time, then there are 8 more slidey
buttons to set the incline level ... set those, press a button to run the program,
and off you go. You can override the programming by using a seperate button to
manually raise/lower the incline - but then the entire program stops and you have
to keep adjusting. It is a nice machine and has served us well over the years,
now is starting to function a little funky. I will admit that it still does tend
to get boring, even with the distraction of the television running. There have
been days I've been ready to just hop off it, other things I could be doing ... so
far I haven't caved ... until today - but for other reasons. I decided it isn't
good to try and exercise when fighting dizziness and a pounding headache. g

I wonder if that kind of programming would hold my interest better.
But then I would have to really decide I would use it. Probably best
to find a gym somewhere and see how I react to it for a while.

I had joined a gym several years ago and did enjoy the nicer equipment they had
available. My problem was dragging myself out of the house to get there ... it
seemed like such a chore. Looking back now though, I think that may have been the
earliest signs of the more recent bout of depression ... not wanting/able to
participate in normal daily activities. I did end up dumping the membership,
again due to not going at all. There are no inexpensive gyms near me. The one I
belonged to was $150/month, even our local Y runs over $100/month. And they all
also require a one time registration fee, somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 (I
don't think the Y requires this). I figured I could buy some pretty nice
equipment and save myself some money.

That can describe me - once I nest for the day - that's it. Yesterday
after a bike ride I knew that I had to walk to the video store to
return a film and it was quickly or it would be a day or two late. So
I took the 10 block walk right after my shower. 10 each way!

EXACTLY! That's why even with the treadmill, I have to do it early in the day or
I know I won't ever get around to it. Goofy question for ya ... why didn't you
incorporate the video return into your bike ride, knock off 2 birds with one
stone? g

Easy to suggest but harder if one's memory fails more often than not.
That is until I tripped over the video cassette box I did not
remember. Besides, the bike ride headed north 35 miles and the video
was 10 blocks south. (G)

To some extent. Instead of talking myself out of the exercise, I now talk myself
into it ... not sure if there really is a difference there. G I do find I have
to do it in the early morning or it doesn't get done. Sundays I usually skip,
just too hard to get away from everyone in the house - and there is nothing more
irritating that having the constant interuptions. I've raised a rather helpless
crew ... at least they are helpless when I am accessable.

Today is a hike and I can tell if others were not going I might bag
it. I can tell the biorhythms are down. But now that I've had my can
of sardines and bowl of soy granola I have to work them off (G)

Can we blame it on the weather again? I slept in this morning, didn't make the
treadmill routine ... of course, didn't help that I wasn't able to fall asleep
until sometime after 6AM ... so waking at 10:30 really isn't much of a sleep-in.
By that time I was waiting for sonny boy to call to let me know if he would be
coming home for dinner or not, and I hate getting calls once I start walking.
Excuses, excuses. g Breakfast was fruit and coffee, too close to lunchtime.
I'll drag dh out for a walk around the neighborhood this afternoon. Not quite the
same workout as I get on the treadmill, but definitely better than nothing ... and
I don't want to get into the nothing routine.

The weather was indian SUMMER with temps in the 80's and also in the
80's in the moutains. It was very warm but a nice Fall day. And I
burned off ever ounce, calorie or point that I ate for breakfast and
then some. It was a long hike and then came the adrenaline rush near
the top where a real scramble with incredible EXPOSURE freaked me out!
The hike book suggests in its closing paragraph describing the "hike"
as "the exposure can be fatal." And while exposure is just a freaky
psychological expression and would not in itself be fatal, a slip
would be down the 1,000 foot cliff!

Yes, that is it. Having missed two meetings, when I returned the
woman who had lost 100 pounds was there as well as some others. And
we got into a MAINTENANCE discussion. And what we discussed was that
there is not MAGIC POINT for Maintenance and Lifetime. It has to vary
daily and weekly by need. The 100 pound lost person just hurt her
foot and Tai Chi (spelling) is out for two weeks and she said she has
to cut back points. So last week's points values are out-the-window
and new ones temporarily installed. Common sense is the answer. But
that took a real grounding in portions and how "bad" some foods were
and how to deal with them in a daily reasonable manner.

Wow, I am impressed. I think you are the first person I've heard that has said a
meeting actually focused on a maintenance topic! Common sense is the best
description I have heard, is the trick in a nutshell. We can only use those
*numbers* as guidance, but will always have other issues that will need to be
taken into consideration. Portions will always play an important role in this
game plan. I know I can cook a wonderful lowpoint meal that daughter and I will
love, and portions aren't really much of an issue (as it is so low in points).
Son and dh like heavier things, so strategy has to be very different. Last night
I threw a requested pot roast in ... I loaded up on the veggies, lightened up on
the beef. When they want their burgers from the local joint, I now order the one
from the childrens menu. If I get the adult one, I eat the whole dang thing and
am miserable ... so why do it? The childrens portion is absolutely fine, and I am
still content.

I think we steered the discussion toward Maintenance - it is this "out
there" subject and is mysterious to those not there (as well as to
those who are) and so the leader said it is not mysterious - you just
need to experiment with the tools you already have by adding and
subtracting to find a place where you hover. But our leader strays
regularly during the regular meeting to address "issues" and then
quickly covers the topic of the day. I prefer it that way, too.

It's nice to hear that maintenance is discussed on occassion. I was beginning to
think this was a subject that was avoided. I know it is experimental, but there
still are a lot of issues, concerns and tactics that are good to share with
others.

I think that more emphasis should be placed here but I guess folks are
in all stages at the meetings and most are in the losing stage. They
might be frustrated by Maintenance talk or even scared away by it.

I am doing well now, even in restaurants - take food home is really
the answer. Maybe not half a burger but other meals including a week
or so ago, half a big bowl of oatmeal. It served another breakfast
well. It is my snacks where I really need to WATCH things.
Munching in front of the computer can be aimless.

I'm still trying to learn how to cook in smaller quantities, not an easy task to
accomplish. I always worry that there won't be enough for everyone, so usually
end up with too many leftovers. I'm working on it. Carry-in works well at
handling that portion control issue. I'm getting better at the snacking. Evening
computer time had always been my worst time, now it doesn't seem to be too bad. I
have my meringues, put them in a bowl and that's it. My downfall seems to be the
time when I try and keep dh company in front of the television ... I'm bored, and
I'm a boredom eater. THIS is when I want my cakes, cookies, icecream, etc. I
continue to talk myself out of them, and reach for fruit or make a salad. Most of
the time it works, sometimes it doesn't. There is always some area that I need to
continue working on. G It isn't going to help that dh brought in a small tray
of chocolate brownies today ... says they're for daughter, but you know how that
goes. G

Evening is the worst. At work, I have limited snacks and have somehow
mustered the willpower to avoid either the vending machines or the
endless candy dishes on every other person's desk! I need to STOP
bring the entire bucket of meringues up to the computer room! Even if
I make endless trips back down and back up, that would be better.

That's how my brother-in-law has kept his weight off. Treadmill and
walking and dvd movies. (g) I watch the news on the nordic track and
that probably only increases the boredom (g

Yea, the news isn't good at keeping the mind off of what you are doing. I find
the old mindless sitcoms work for me, they keep me laughing anyway. And they are
something that hub doesn't enjoy, so it becomes *my* time. I won't spend my
daytime alone hours in front of the tv, I'm not much of a tv person ... so
limiting them to the treadmill works perfect for me. Also gives me something to
look forward to ... sorta. g

Yes, NEWS does not work to take one's mind away to another plane.

I guess I could possible hook this computer up to the small tv and
watch dvd's.

I started with the computer hooked up, but it became a pain to haul the laptop up
and down the stairs daily. I also had to hook an external pair of speakers to it,
since the internal ones weren't loud enough to be heard over the racket of the
machinery. Guess it gave me an excuse to go out and buy myself another *toy*. g

Oh, the noise level of my old bike wind trainer almost had me deaf
after I kept turning up the tv volumn. Finally got head phones which
helped. Hey, think of the extra points carrying the computer up/down
(G)

LOL! I never thought of it that way, I was always too worried about dropping the
thing on the trip down. We have *scary* stairs as the kids used to say ... old
house, steep wooden stairs, no handrails and no wall to hang onto. Heck, I
probably worked off points just worrying!

Sounds like my stairs. But I have a handrail but not with hands busy.
But I also cling to the wall. I used it a lot when I had the vertigo!

WE do have half a wall ... as in it is present for the first half of the trip
down. I did lean on it for a bit, then have to hurry the bottom part of the trip.
G

Joyce

I had joined a gym several years ago and did enjoy the nicer equipment they had
available. My problem was dragging myself out of the house to get there ... it
seemed like such a chore. Looking back now though, I think that may have been the
earliest signs of the more recent bout of depression ... not wanting/able to
participate in normal daily activities. I did end up dumping the membership,
again due to not going at all. There are no inexpensive gyms near me. The one I
belonged to was $150/month, even our local Y runs over $100/month. And they all
also require a one time registration fee, somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 (I
don't think the Y requires this). I figured I could buy some pretty nice
equipment and save myself some money.

That can describe me - once I nest for the day - that's it. Yesterday
after a bike ride I knew that I had to walk to the video store to
return a film and it was quickly or it would be a day or two late. So
I took the 10 block walk right after my shower. 10 each way!

EXACTLY! That's why even with the treadmill, I have to do it early in the day or
I know I won't ever get around to it. Goofy question for ya ... why didn't you
incorporate the video return into your bike ride, knock off 2 birds with one
stone? g

Easy to suggest but harder if one's memory fails more often than not.
That is until I tripped over the video cassette box I did not
remember. Besides, the bike ride headed north 35 miles and the video
was 10 blocks south. (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever tripped over the videos, but I am constantly
forgetting to get them back on time. THIS is why I make lists. Problem is
remembering where the heck they are. grin

To some extent. Instead of talking myself out of the exercise, I now talk myself
into it ... not sure if there really is a difference there. G I do find I have
to do it in the early morning or it doesn't get done. Sundays I usually skip,
just too hard to get away from everyone in the house - and there is nothing more
irritating that having the constant interuptions. I've raised a rather helpless
crew ... at least they are helpless when I am accessable.

Today is a hike and I can tell if others were not going I might bag
it. I can tell the biorhythms are down. But now that I've had my can
of sardines and bowl of soy granola I have to work them off (G)

Can we blame it on the weather again? I slept in this morning, didn't make the
treadmill routine ... of course, didn't help that I wasn't able to fall asleep
until sometime after 6AM ... so waking at 10:30 really isn't much of a sleep-in.
By that time I was waiting for sonny boy to call to let me know if he would be
coming home for dinner or not, and I hate getting calls once I start walking.
Excuses, excuses. g Breakfast was fruit and coffee, too close to lunchtime.
I'll drag dh out for a walk around the neighborhood this afternoon. Not quite the
same workout as I get on the treadmill, but definitely better than nothing ... and
I don't want to get into the nothing routine.

The weather was indian SUMMER with temps in the 80's and also in the
80's in the moutains. It was very warm but a nice Fall day. And I
burned off ever ounce, calorie or point that I ate for breakfast and
then some. It was a long hike and then came the adrenaline rush near
the top where a real scramble with incredible EXPOSURE freaked me out!
The hike book suggests in its closing paragraph describing the "hike"
as "the exposure can be fatal." And while exposure is just a freaky
psychological expression and would not in itself be fatal, a slip
would be down the 1,000 foot cliff!

Oh boy, if I am interpretting the meaning of exposure correctly - sounds like it
would throw me into a complete panic attack. Me and heights don't get along
especially well - especially if I look down and see massive openness. You should
have seen me on the set of purdue bleachers this summer ... not good. Had to get
dh to come to the top and rescue me (he's the one who put me there!). g

I think we steered the discussion toward Maintenance - it is this "out
there" subject and is mysterious to those not there (as well as to
those who are) and so the leader said it is not mysterious - you just
need to experiment with the tools you already have by adding and
subtracting to find a place where you hover. But our leader strays
regularly during the regular meeting to address "issues" and then
quickly covers the topic of the day. I prefer it that way, too.

It's nice to hear that maintenance is discussed on occassion. I was beginning to
think this was a subject that was avoided. I know it is experimental, but there
still are a lot of issues, concerns and tactics that are good to share with
others.

I think that more emphasis should be placed here but I guess folks are
in all stages at the meetings and most are in the losing stage. They
might be frustrated by Maintenance talk or even scared away by it.

That is why I feel that ww should incorporate maintenance member meetings into
their daily schedules. If those losing are frustrated by discussions that don't
exactly pertain to them, I would take a guess that maintainers are equally
frustrated at discussions they have already been through ... probably many times.
Integrating is a good thing, it reminds us where we have come from as well as
giving losers positive reinforcement that it can be done. But ... even once a
month a strictly maintenance discussion surely wouldn't be out of line, would it?

I am doing well now, even in restaurants - take food home is really
the answer. Maybe not half a burger but other meals including a week
or so ago, half a big bowl of oatmeal. It served another breakfast
well. It is my snacks where I really need to WATCH things.
Munching in front of the computer can be aimless.

I'm still trying to learn how to cook in smaller quantities, not an easy task to
accomplish. I always worry that there won't be enough for everyone, so usually
end up with too many leftovers. I'm working on it. Carry-in works well at
handling that portion control issue. I'm getting better at the snacking. Evening
computer time had always been my worst time, now it doesn't seem to be too bad. I
have my meringues, put them in a bowl and that's it. My downfall seems to be the
time when I try and keep dh company in front of the television ... I'm bored, and
I'm a boredom eater. THIS is when I want my cakes, cookies, icecream, etc. I
continue to talk myself out of them, and reach for fruit or make a salad. Most of
the time it works, sometimes it doesn't. There is always some area that I need to
continue working on. G It isn't going to help that dh brought in a small tray
of chocolate brownies today ... says they're for daughter, but you know how that
goes. G

Evening is the worst. At work, I have limited snacks and have somehow
mustered the willpower to avoid either the vending machines or the
endless candy dishes on every other person's desk! I need to STOP
bring the entire bucket of meringues up to the computer room! Even if
I make endless trips back down and back up, that would be better.

My computer time has become so much better, rarely do I have anything in here
anymore. If I do, it's a piece of fruit or my allotment of meringues. Gone are
the m&m's that I loved so dearly and *thought* I couldn't live without.

I wonder if your weight flucuations could be doing something similar as mine. If
I have nothing in the late evening, weight seems to be extremely low (for me) the
following morning. If I get those 2AM munchies (you know what a night owl I am) I
can predict up to a 2 pound gain in the AM. And the munchies aren't much ... like
I said, meringues, water, fruit ... an occassional blueberry bran muffin from
Trader Joes (wonderful at only a little over 1 point). You would think these
fluxes would be enough to get me to bed earlier. g

Joyce

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:48:37 -0500, Joyce wrote:


I had joined a gym several years ago and did enjoy the nicer equipment they had
available. My problem was dragging myself out of the house to get there ... it
seemed like such a chore. Looking back now though, I think that may have been the
earliest signs of the more recent bout of depression ... not wanting/able to
participate in normal daily activities. I did end up dumping the membership,
again due to not going at all. There are no inexpensive gyms near me. The one I
belonged to was $150/month, even our local Y runs over $100/month. And they all
also require a one time registration fee, somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 (I
don't think the Y requires this). I figured I could buy some pretty nice
equipment and save myself some money.

That can describe me - once I nest for the day - that's it. Yesterday
after a bike ride I knew that I had to walk to the video store to
return a film and it was quickly or it would be a day or two late. So
I took the 10 block walk right after my shower. 10 each way!

EXACTLY! That's why even with the treadmill, I have to do it early in the day or
I know I won't ever get around to it. Goofy question for ya ... why didn't you
incorporate the video return into your bike ride, knock off 2 birds with one
stone? g

Easy to suggest but harder if one's memory fails more often than not.
That is until I tripped over the video cassette box I did not
remember. Besides, the bike ride headed north 35 miles and the video
was 10 blocks south. (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever tripped over the videos, but I am constantly
forgetting to get them back on time. THIS is why I make lists. Problem is
remembering where the heck they are. grin

Oh, I place stuff in my path to remind me of things - on the stair or
the landing or near the front door. I placed the dvd case on the
floor of the front entry hall. Finally, saw it and acted on it.

To some extent. Instead of talking myself out of the exercise, I now talk myself
into it ... not sure if there really is a difference there. G I do find I have
to do it in the early morning or it doesn't get done. Sundays I usually skip,
just too hard to get away from everyone in the house - and there is nothing more
irritating that having the constant interuptions. I've raised a rather helpless
crew ... at least they are helpless when I am accessable.

Today is a hike and I can tell if others were not going I might bag
it. I can tell the biorhythms are down. But now that I've had my can
of sardines and bowl of soy granola I have to work them off (G)

Can we blame it on the weather again? I slept in this morning, didn't make the
treadmill routine ... of course, didn't help that I wasn't able to fall asleep
until sometime after 6AM ... so waking at 10:30 really isn't much of a sleep-in.
By that time I was waiting for sonny boy to call to let me know if he would be
coming home for dinner or not, and I hate getting calls once I start walking.
Excuses, excuses. g Breakfast was fruit and coffee, too close to lunchtime.
I'll drag dh out for a walk around the neighborhood this afternoon. Not quite the
same workout as I get on the treadmill, but definitely better than nothing ... and
I don't want to get into the nothing routine.

The weather was indian SUMMER with temps in the 80's and also in the
80's in the moutains. It was very warm but a nice Fall day. And I
burned off ever ounce, calorie or point that I ate for breakfast and
then some. It was a long hike and then came the adrenaline rush near
the top where a real scramble with incredible EXPOSURE freaked me out!
The hike book suggests in its closing paragraph describing the "hike"
as "the exposure can be fatal." And while exposure is just a freaky
psychological expression and would not in itself be fatal, a slip
would be down the 1,000 foot cliff!

Oh boy, if I am interpretting the meaning of exposure correctly - sounds like it
would throw me into a complete panic attack. Me and heights don't get along
especially well - especially if I look down and see massive openness. You should
have seen me on the set of purdue bleachers this summer ... not good. Had to get
dh to come to the top and rescue me (he's the one who put me there!). g

You are interpreting the meeting of "exposure" very correctly. You
get this sweeping, falling away view of NOTHING over a precipice. The
"wide sweeping" view can make one swoon. Leads to shaky legs and
halting gait which makes climbing even more unsafe (G)

I think we steered the discussion toward Maintenance - it is this "out
there" subject and is mysterious to those not there (as well as to
those who are) and so the leader said it is not mysterious - you just
need to experiment with the tools you already have by adding and
subtracting to find a place where you hover. But our leader strays
regularly during the regular meeting to address "issues" and then
quickly covers the topic of the day. I prefer it that way, too.

It's nice to hear that maintenance is discussed on occassion. I was beginning to
think this was a subject that was avoided. I know it is experimental, but there
still are a lot of issues, concerns and tactics that are good to share with
others.

I think that more emphasis should be placed here but I guess folks are
in all stages at the meetings and most are in the losing stage. They
might be frustrated by Maintenance talk or even scared away by it.

That is why I feel that ww should incorporate maintenance member meetings into
their daily schedules. If those losing are frustrated by discussions that don't
exactly pertain to them, I would take a guess that maintainers are equally
frustrated at discussions they have already been through ... probably many times.
Integrating is a good thing, it reminds us where we have come from as well as
giving losers positive reinforcement that it can be done. But ... even once a
month a strictly maintenance discussion surely wouldn't be out of line, would it?

I guess that is when the member is intended to seek individual
meetings with the leader. I guess the feeling may be (not info that
this is fact) that if you were able to lose and get to goal, you
should be able to tweak the points/foods/calories/exercise to find a
balance or maintenance point. And as I write that, I guess it really
would make sense. I think if you read our threads on this from the
various folks at maintenance, their is a reluctance to experiment. We
ran a bit scared of the potential to gain. But unless you are willing
to experiment as Lesanne has recently done, you really do not learn to
trust your instincts and adjust things as necessary. (hmm, have I
answered some of my own questions and misgivings in this?????)

I am doing well now, even in restaurants - take food home is really
the answer. Maybe not half a burger but other meals including a week
or so ago, half a big bowl of oatmeal. It served another breakfast
well. It is my snacks where I really need to WATCH things.
Munching in front of the computer can be aimless.

I'm still trying to learn how to cook in smaller quantities, not an easy task to
accomplish. I always worry that there won't be enough for everyone, so usually
end up with too many leftovers. I'm working on it. Carry-in works well at
handling that portion control issue. I'm getting better at the snacking. Evening
computer time had always been my worst time, now it doesn't seem to be too bad. I
have my meringues, put them in a bowl and that's it. My downfall seems to be the
time when I try and keep dh company in front of the television ... I'm bored, and
I'm a boredom eater. THIS is when I want my cakes, cookies, icecream, etc. I
continue to talk myself out of them, and reach for fruit or make a salad. Most of
the time it works, sometimes it doesn't. There is always some area that I need to
continue working on. G It isn't going to help that dh brought in a small tray
of chocolate brownies today ... says they're for daughter, but you know how that
goes. G

Evening is the worst. At work, I have limited snacks and have somehow
mustered the willpower to avoid either the vending machines or the
endless candy dishes on every other person's desk! I need to STOP
bring the entire bucket of meringues up to the computer room! Even if
I make endless trips back down and back up, that would be better.

My computer time has become so much better, rarely do I have anything in here
anymore. If I do, it's a piece of fruit or my allotment of meringues. Gone are
the m&m's that I loved so dearly and *thought* I couldn't live without.

That is a sign of success I would think.

I wonder if your weight flucuations could be doing something similar as mine. If
I have nothing in the late evening, weight seems to be extremely low (for me) the
following morning. If I get those 2AM munchies (you know what a night owl I am) I
can predict up to a 2 pound gain in the AM. And the munchies aren't much ... like
I said, meringues, water, fruit ... an occassional blueberry bran muffin from
Trader Joes (wonderful at only a little over 1 point). You would think these
fluxes would be enough to get me to bed earlier. g

Well, if those munchies 'grab' water and hold it (sugar, etc), that
might explain some gains overnight.

Today at work we celebrated my birthday (last week) and my secretary
got even for the cheesecake I baked for her birthday. She brought in
an absolutely rich, dark, outrageous chocolately chocolate cake from
Costco. Woooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. It provided quite a buzz.

EXACTLY! That's why even with the treadmill, I have to do it early in the day or
I know I won't ever get around to it. Goofy question for ya ... why didn't you
incorporate the video return into your bike ride, knock off 2 birds with one
stone? g

Easy to suggest but harder if one's memory fails more often than not.
That is until I tripped over the video cassette box I did not
remember. Besides, the bike ride headed north 35 miles and the video
was 10 blocks south. (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever tripped over the videos, but I am constantly
forgetting to get them back on time. THIS is why I make lists. Problem is
remembering where the heck they are. grin

Oh, I place stuff in my path to remind me of things - on the stair or
the landing or near the front door. I placed the dvd case on the
floor of the front entry hall. Finally, saw it and acted on it.

Kind of sounds like the constant state of my house. The family has what I call
*dump syndrome*. They walk in the house, drop their belongings and go on with
life. So even those movies or whatever that are set out to be returned, are
quickly lost in the shuffle. The entry way floor is laden with my daughters
shoes. I don't know how she does it, but by weeks end I swear she has 8 pairs
piled all over the floor. (she has a thing for shoes)

The weather was indian SUMMER with temps in the 80's and also in the
80's in the moutains. It was very warm but a nice Fall day. And I
burned off ever ounce, calorie or point that I ate for breakfast and
then some. It was a long hike and then came the adrenaline rush near
the top where a real scramble with incredible EXPOSURE freaked me out!
The hike book suggests in its closing paragraph describing the "hike"
as "the exposure can be fatal." And while exposure is just a freaky
psychological expression and would not in itself be fatal, a slip
would be down the 1,000 foot cliff!

Oh boy, if I am interpretting the meaning of exposure correctly - sounds like it
would throw me into a complete panic attack. Me and heights don't get along
especially well - especially if I look down and see massive openness. You should
have seen me on the set of purdue bleachers this summer ... not good. Had to get
dh to come to the top and rescue me (he's the one who put me there!). g

You are interpreting the meeting of "exposure" very correctly. You
get this sweeping, falling away view of NOTHING over a precipice. The
"wide sweeping" view can make one swoon. Leads to shaky legs and
halting gait which makes climbing even more unsafe (G)

That's exactly what I was envisioning - I wouldn't be able to handle it. Silly
ol' me can't even step on a downwards escalator ... looking at all that openess
beneath me, coupled with the gray motion from the steps is not a good thing! I do
understand the shaky legs, mine don't actually shake but I do get this odd
swooning feeling as well as having buckling knees.

It's nice to hear that maintenance is discussed on occassion. I was beginning to
think this was a subject that was avoided. I know it is experimental, but there
still are a lot of issues, concerns and tactics that are good to share with
others.

I think that more emphasis should be placed here but I guess folks are
in all stages at the meetings and most are in the losing stage. They
might be frustrated by Maintenance talk or even scared away by it.

That is why I feel that ww should incorporate maintenance member meetings into
their daily schedules. If those losing are frustrated by discussions that don't
exactly pertain to them, I would take a guess that maintainers are equally
frustrated at discussions they have already been through ... probably many times.
Integrating is a good thing, it reminds us where we have come from as well as
giving losers positive reinforcement that it can be done. But ... even once a
month a strictly maintenance discussion surely wouldn't be out of line, would it?

I guess that is when the member is intended to seek individual
meetings with the leader. I guess the feeling may be (not info that
this is fact) that if you were able to lose and get to goal, you
should be able to tweak the points/foods/calories/exercise to find a
balance or maintenance point. And as I write that, I guess it really
would make sense. I think if you read our threads on this from the
various folks at maintenance, their is a reluctance to experiment. We
ran a bit scared of the potential to gain. But unless you are willing
to experiment as Lesanne has recently done, you really do not learn to
trust your instincts and adjust things as necessary. (hmm, have I
answered some of my own questions and misgivings in this?????)

I understand the logic, but also do think that a few meetings would be warranted
to make sure that members were comfortable with making those tweaks. You know
yourself that we had many questions as we entered the new world of maintenance, as
well as fears. It would have been nice to have a little more support in this
area, instead of left to just totally flounder on our own. Not that it was a
horrible thing. I do believe we learn by trial and error, from our mistakes.
You also may have hit on something I need to address. I have experimented between
the two programs, but still stayed well within the safety net of lower points. I
now have gone back through the old ww online journals, which have been readjusted
to the new flexpoint system. According to them, I still was losing while eating
all the flex points ... so who knows?

I wonder if your weight flucuations could be doing something similar as mine. If
I have nothing in the late evening, weight seems to be extremely low (for me) the
following morning. If I get those 2AM munchies (you know what a night owl I am) I
can predict up to a 2 pound gain in the AM. And the munchies aren't much ... like
I said, meringues, water, fruit ... an occassional blueberry bran muffin from
Trader Joes (wonderful at only a little over 1 point). You would think these
fluxes would be enough to get me to bed earlier. g

Well, if those munchies 'grab' water and hold it (sugar, etc), that
might explain some gains overnight.

That could be. I didn't realize that sugar holds water - thought only salt was
the problem. Mainly my late evening snacks are just the mini-meringues, not sure
how sugar laden they are. BUT ... eating at 3AM along with drinking a few glasses
of water, then weighing in around 6:30 definitely doesn't give the body much time
to get rid of excesses. I suppose it is much the same as people who are weighing
in around 10AM ... after a few cups of coffee, water, whatever.

Today at work we celebrated my birthday (last week) and my secretary
got even for the cheesecake I baked for her birthday. She brought in
an absolutely rich, dark, outrageous chocolately chocolate cake from
Costco. Woooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. It provided quite a buzz.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, chocolate!!!! I might have to look for a costco around here ...
I'm really up for a GOOD chocolate cake. G

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 11:06:10 -0500, Joyce wrote:


EXACTLY! That's why even with the treadmill, I have to do it early in the day or
I know I won't ever get around to it. Goofy question for ya ... why didn't you
incorporate the video return into your bike ride, knock off 2 birds with one
stone? g

Easy to suggest but harder if one's memory fails more often than not.
That is until I tripped over the video cassette box I did not
remember. Besides, the bike ride headed north 35 miles and the video
was 10 blocks south. (G)

LOL! I don't think I've ever tripped over the videos, but I am constantly
forgetting to get them back on time. THIS is why I make lists. Problem is
remembering where the heck they are. grin

Oh, I place stuff in my path to remind me of things - on the stair or
the landing or near the front door. I placed the dvd case on the
floor of the front entry hall. Finally, saw it and acted on it.

Kind of sounds like the constant state of my house. The family has what I call
*dump syndrome*. They walk in the house, drop their belongings and go on with
life. So even those movies or whatever that are set out to be returned, are
quickly lost in the shuffle. The entry way floor is laden with my daughters
shoes. I don't know how she does it, but by weeks end I swear she has 8 pairs
piled all over the floor. (she has a thing for shoes)

Imelda Marcos moves to Illinois! (G) If there is a horizontal surface
I cover it. I am not one of those "handle it once - toss or file"
folks. I peruse, muse, contemplate, put it aside, look it over and
then still pile it for future SOMETHING.

The weather was indian SUMMER with temps in the 80's and also in the
80's in the moutains. It was very warm but a nice Fall day. And I
burned off ever ounce, calorie or point that I ate for breakfast and
then some. It was a long hike and then came the adrenaline rush near
the top where a real scramble with incredible EXPOSURE freaked me out!
The hike book suggests in its closing paragraph describing the "hike"
as "the exposure can be fatal." And while exposure is just a freaky
psychological expression and would not in itself be fatal, a slip
would be down the 1,000 foot cliff!

Oh boy, if I am interpretting the meaning of exposure correctly - sounds like it
would throw me into a complete panic attack. Me and heights don't get along
especially well - especially if I look down and see massive openness. You should
have seen me on the set of purdue bleachers this summer ... not good. Had to get
dh to come to the top and rescue me (he's the one who put me there!). g

You are interpreting the meeting of "exposure" very correctly. You
get this sweeping, falling away view of NOTHING over a precipice. The
"wide sweeping" view can make one swoon. Leads to shaky legs and
halting gait which makes climbing even more unsafe (G)

That's exactly what I was envisioning - I wouldn't be able to handle it. Silly
ol' me can't even step on a downwards escalator ... looking at all that openess
beneath me, coupled with the gray motion from the steps is not a good thing! I do
understand the shaky legs, mine don't actually shake but I do get this odd
swooning feeling as well as having buckling knees.

You have it. I can sometimes get beyond it and the more I am on steep
terrain the better it becomes but I don't do as much as I use to. And
I still have a "rule" that works pretty well for me. When I say for
the third time "What the .... am I doing here!" It is time to
retreat. I am by then so stiff gaited and unnerved that it truly is
unsafe! I have some friends that literally can be crawling up a
vertical wall over 1,000 feet of nothing and have no trepidation
whatsoever. Amazing.

It's nice to hear that maintenance is discussed on occassion. I was beginning to
think this was a subject that was avoided. I know it is experimental, but there
still are a lot of issues, concerns and tactics that are good to share with
others.

I think that more emphasis should be placed here but I guess folks are
in all stages at the meetings and most are in the losing stage. They
might be frustrated by Maintenance talk or even scared away by it.

That is why I feel that ww should incorporate maintenance member meetings into
their daily schedules. If those losing are frustrated by discussions that don't
exactly pertain to them, I would take a guess that maintainers are equally
frustrated at discussions they have already been through ... probably many times.
Integrating is a good thing, it reminds us where we have come from as well as
giving losers positive reinforcement that it can be done. But ... even once a
month a strictly maintenance discussion surely wouldn't be out of line, would it?

I guess that is when the member is intended to seek individual
meetings with the leader. I guess the feeling may be (not info that
this is fact) that if you were able to lose and get to goal, you
should be able to tweak the points/foods/calories/exercise to find a
balance or maintenance point. And as I write that, I guess it really
would make sense. I think if you read our threads on this from the
various folks at maintenance, their is a reluctance to experiment. We
ran a bit scared of the potential to gain. But unless you are willing
to experiment as Lesanne has recently done, you really do not learn to
trust your instincts and adjust things as necessary. (hmm, have I
answered some of my own questions and misgivings in this?????)

I understand the logic, but also do think that a few meetings would be warranted
to make sure that members were comfortable with making those tweaks. You know
yourself that we had many questions as we entered the new world of maintenance, as
well as fears. It would have been nice to have a little more support in this
area, instead of left to just totally flounder on our own. Not that it was a
horrible thing. I do believe we learn by trial and error, from our mistakes.
You also may have hit on something I need to address. I have experimented between
the two programs, but still stayed well within the safety net of lower points. I
now have gone back through the old ww online journals, which have been readjusted
to the new flexpoint system. According to them, I still was losing while eating
all the flex points ... so who knows?

Interesting that WW converted your old journals - really does give you
an opportunity to see what would have been what. Oh, I did have
questions. Really, all they say is add 4 points and see the results.
Then adjust up or down accordingly. Not much more plus the booklet.

I wonder if your weight flucuations could be doing something similar as mine. If
I have nothing in the late evening, weight seems to be extremely low (for me) the
following morning. If I get those 2AM munchies (you know what a night owl I am) I
can predict up to a 2 pound gain in the AM. And the munchies aren't much ... like
I said, meringues, water, fruit ... an occassional blueberry bran muffin from
Trader Joes (wonderful at only a little over 1 point). You would think these
fluxes would be enough to get me to bed earlier. g

Well, if those munchies 'grab' water and hold it (sugar, etc), that
might explain some gains overnight.

That could be. I didn't realize that sugar holds water - thought only salt was
the problem. Mainly my late evening snacks are just the mini-meringues, not sure
how sugar laden they are. BUT ... eating at 3AM along with drinking a few glasses
of water, then weighing in around 6:30 definitely doesn't give the body much time
to get rid of excesses. I suppose it is much the same as people who are weighing
in around 10AM ... after a few cups of coffee, water, whatever.

Today at work we celebrated my birthday (last week) and my secretary
got even for the cheesecake I baked for her birthday. She brought in
an absolutely rich, dark, outrageous chocolately chocolate cake from
Costco. Woooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. It provided quite a buzz.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, chocolate!!!! I might have to look for a costco around here ...
I'm really up for a GOOD chocolate cake. G

Well, most folks at work thought it a terrific chocolate cake and I
did, TWO! (G) (as in TWO pieces)

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03