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Fat woman files complaint (OBESE post)



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 26th, 2005, 01:27 AM
Hunter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fat woman files complaint (OBESE post)

Robin King wrote:

"scs0" wrote in message
oups.com...
| No, it isn't. Sounds like a reporter somewhere is looking for
| sensationalism, rather than facts.

While it doesn't surprise me that a reporter would get something

wrong,
it is irrelevant if obesity is or is not the leading cause of that

list
of diseases. All that matters is that obesity significantly
damages

a
person's health and the doctor is morally obligated to point that

out
to a patient.


Prejudice damages a person's health. Dieting can damage
a person's health. Weight loss surgery can do major damage to
a person's health. Check out studies of fat people in societies
where fat is at least tolerated, and their mortality rate is not
significantly greater than anyone else's.


Why don't you post links to those studies since you brought them up?


| | Doctors have been warning their patients of the evil of being
| | overweight for years, telling them to lose weight.
|
| For all the good it's done.

Again, whether or not the patient is too stubborn to use the news
is irrelevant. It is the job of a doctor to point out problems to
the patient.


What is relevant is that he's pointing out his problems with
her APPEARANCE, when he should be concentrating on her
health.


One affects the other.

Diets have a very high faillure and rebound rate, and it's
irresponsible to recommend one solely for the purpose of
weight loss.

Again, irrelevant.
Just because obesity is more dangerous to another group does not

mean
that it isn't dangerous to women.


Doesn't mean that it is, either. Lose enough fat and you'll
stop menstruating. Is that healthy? It happens to lots of women
who have low levels of body fat.

I partially agree here because this does get off the subject of

health,
but then again we don't know the context of the conversation.


We also haven't heard (okay, I haven't heard) the woman's
side of the story.

The part I disagree with is the "justification of a social

prejudice"
because it is a jump in logic.


Nope. Historically, medicine follows social and religious
prejudice. A hundred-odd years ago, masturbation was frowned
upon. Doctors of the time warned against it and came up with
some rather painful-looking contraptions intended to prevent it.


How is religion influencing medicine today?


Prejudice means to preconceive judgment
or an opinion. Since obesity is a well known medical condition,


It is no more a medical condition than thinness. Both are
dangerous if present in extremes, and thinness even more so.

there
is no preconception here, the doctor knows full well of the medical
complications and he's doing his job exposing them.

| | pressure, diabetes, heart disease, gastroesophageal reflux and
| stroke.

We know that correlation is not causation. There are
conditions,
such as lowered insulin sensitivity, which can cause a spectrum of
complaints. Weight gain is one of these. PCOS is such a condi-
tion, causing weight gain and hirsutism in many women . You can't
cure the condition by shaving.

| And we all know thin people never get these diseases,
don't
| we?

Again, you are making a jump in logic and have created a foolish
statement.


It was irony. Someday, maybe I'll use cue cards.

What you have stated is logically equivalent as saying "And
we all know nonsmokers never get lung cancer, don't we?" to justify
smoking.


I'm not justifying an activity. I'm justifying an appearance,
although I shouldn't have to.

| | One patient who Bennett had seen five or six times took offense
at
| the
| | lecture and filed a complaint against Bennett about a year ago
with
| the
| | New Hampshire Board of Medicine.
|
| We need more detail here. I have heard many cases of
| doctors assuming that obesity causes every illness, and serious
| diseases going untreated because the doctor could only focus
| on the weight.

Maybe the weight was the only thing he could see?


If he lets it cloud his judgmen t, he's in the wrong business.

| | Bennett says his former patient filed the complaint because "I
told
| a
| | fat woman she was obese. I tried to get her attention. I told
her
| you
| | need to get on a program, join a group of like-minded people and
| peel
| | off the weight that is going to kill you."
|
| To be fair, he should also discuss the downside of various
| weight-loss methods. Far better for the doctor to focus on the
| woman's health rather than her weight.

OK, I can agree with you here. Instead of focusing on the weight,

the
doctor should instead request that the patient engage in at least 3
half hour sessions of weight training a week and 3 half hour

sessions
of cardiovascular activity a week.


First, he should find out what activities she's already
involved in.

I don't mean the sissy exercising I
see a lot of women doing, I mean a level of weights that cause

strain
at the 10th repetition and cardio activity resulting in a heart
rate

of
140bmp or more.

Then the doctor can focus on the woman's diet. No more ice cream!

No
more candy, no more white bread, no more soda, and no more diet

soda!
Instead she'll be requested to eat a diet that's healthy!


Nothing wrong with that. We agree here. But the degree
of health she gains is not related to how much fat she loses.

This is a perfect thing for both of us. Since I recognize obesity
being the choice that it is


It's not a choice for me. I have no control over it. All I
can do is adjust my exercise and eating habits. What I weigh
as a result is completely out of my hands.


How many calories do you consume on a daily basis? Describe your
exercise regimen.


(meaning it's a choice because you choose
the consequences for your lifestyle) then a change to this
lifestyle would cause the patient to lose weight. Fat acceptance
people, on

the
other hand, who think that the body is able to become obese through
magical genetic powers will still result in the woman becoming
healthier.


Not me! I think fat is natural, and people who are naturally
slim or medium sized stay that way through magic genetic
powers.


For your assertion to be true, the human genome has evolved drastically
in the last 20 years.


I wonder if a diet consisting of 5 pounds of refined sugar ever day

had
anything to do with her becoming diabetic?


How would you know what she ate or didn't eat?

| He should attend a course on Health At Every Size. Then
he
| might be able tosomething useful, like moderate exercise or
healthier
| foods. If his patient is already eating well and exercising, he
| should send her to an endocrinologist for proper treatment.

Sounds like a Soviet re-education camp to me.


Learning to teach healthy habits is Soviet re-education????

I can hear the instructions now: "Telling fat people that their

obesity
is bad for their health can hurt their feelings. It's more
compassionate to appease someone's character flaws than to
encourage them to change them, so lie to them about the wonders of
being fat.

In
fact, give them a stick covered with Crisco when they leave your
office. Doctors always give lollipops to children, so this

shouldn't
be too difficult. The fat are already discriminated against
enough, why add age discrimination to the list of things that hurt
their selfesteem?"


This makes you sound like a total paranoid. What Health At
Every Size is about is telling people how they can improve their
health, which may or may not affect their weight.

| It's not his job to preach.

The job of the doctor is to ensure the health of the patient.


Agreed.

The
doctor would not be doing his job if he ignored a person's weight
problem. Just because some people are so narrowminded that they

cannot
handle the truth does not give them the right to engage in a BS

legal
complaint that will only serve to worsen healthcare for everyone

else.

I don't see how it would make things worse. Empowering the
patient by showing them what they can do, rather than focusing
on the holy grail of weight loss would have positive effects. For
one thing, fat people would see their doctors more frequently,
and diseases would be properly treated instead of being attrib-
uted just to fatness. That in itself ought to lower medical costs.

If she's too afraid to hear the truth about her health then the
last place she should go is to the doctor.


Then he should talk about health and things she can change,
rather than harp on weight because his tender sensibilities are
offended.

BTW, I come to this board every few months for the laughs. It's

really
amusing to read the jibberish pro-obesity comments on this board,

and
Robin you didn't disappoint! It's always a laugh seeing people

attempt
to dismiss the health dangers of obesity.


If you think that's funny, you ought to read the July issue of
Scientific American. There's a whole article debunking the CDC's
sloppy research methods. You're bound to get a few guffaws out
of that, I'm sure of it.

I always get a kick out of
the fact that many of you think it's sooooo compassionate to lie by
praising another's lifestyle that results in obesity and how you

think
it's mean sprited for another to condemn the obesity lifestyle for

the
misery that it will bring. Sadly, by the time you see the

foolishness
of your logic it may be too late.


What is sad is that you think your jeering is going to help
people. All it shows is how frightened you are.

Robin


  #2  
Old August 26th, 2005, 01:39 AM
BJ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If her doctor decided to lecture her on being fat obviously he thought
there was no reason for it but laziness. Likely not the first time he has
brought it up.

BJ


  #3  
Old August 26th, 2005, 01:46 AM
Barry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

One of the reasons health insurance costs are high is because people
don't take care of themselves. Not only was the doctor right for saying
she's too fat, but if she refused to go on a diet or undergo any kind
of treatment for her weight problem, her health insurance rate should
go up. It's like a person on welfare who refuses to look for a job.

And I hope she's sued for speaking badly about her doctor.

  #4  
Old August 26th, 2005, 03:36 AM
scs0
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You mean to tell me he had no regard for your father's self-esteem?
The doctor could have hurt his feelings! He had him strip and look at
himself in the mirror? That means Robin is right! It is all about
appearance! The doctor must have had the hots for your father and
wanted him to get buff because, as we all know, there's no correlation
between obesity and a person's overall health.[/sarcasm]

Seriously, though, it's good to hear that there are some doctors out
there who are still more interested in doing their jobs than being a
puppet to the pressures of political correctness. You never know what
pressure will finally be the event that causes someone to finally make
the decision to lose weight. For me it was a series of small events
that I finally just couldn't ignore and one of those events was my
doctor telling me that I need to lose weight. Sometimes we know
something intellectually, but it takes an emotional push (like your
father's mirror test) to finally make the change. I lost about 80
pounds by doing the unthinkable: I began eating less and exercising
more. *GASP* Unfortunately a lot of fat people on this site read
posts from liars and the ignorant who are just trying to excuse their
character flaw and it does nothing to make them change.

  #5  
Old August 26th, 2005, 03:47 AM
scs0
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The reason the obese get so mad at people pointing out their obesity is
that people are generally embarrassed by their self-imposed failures or
character flaws. If you gamble excessively, drink like a frat boy,
smoke like a chimney, do drugs, beat your spouse, or engage in bulimia
then you can keep those embarrassing secrets hidden from others. Even
if other people know about these traits you can often convince yourself
that they do not. With obesity it's impossible to hide the fact that
you are a failure at managing your health because obesity makes you
huge. I think that's why obesity proponents are so bitter and so blind
to reality.

They remind me of OJ Simpson, as guilty as the man is you actually get
the feeling when he is interviewed that he believes his own lies. It's
like he exists in his own little world that was created within his own
mind and has its own warped rules. Read some of the obesity proponent
posts on this site and that's exactly what you see. Like with Robin's
posts, obviously they are full of crap but I actually get the
impression that Robin *BELIEVES* the crap he or she is writing and you
wonder what sort of Twinkie high Robin's on to create such twisted
posts.

  #6  
Old August 26th, 2005, 05:33 AM
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Per BJ:
If her doctor decided to lecture her on being fat obviously he thought
there was no reason for it but


My dad was the chief financial officer of a major media company. i.e. Someone
in a position of unquestioned authority - used to people accommodating his every
whim.

We were living in Westport CT, and our family doctor - a little guy about 5'2"
with a pencil mustache - had my dad strip naked in his office and stand in
front of a full-length mirror.

The doc then said to my-dad-the-bigtime-business-executive "Take a good look at
yourself. You're too damn fat."

My dad's respect for our family doctor knew no bounds thereafter - and he
must've told that story to us a hundred times...

He also lost about 40 pounds.
--
PeteCresswell
  #7  
Old August 27th, 2005, 03:14 PM
\(the\)duckster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Hunter" wrote in message
...
Robin King wrote:

"scs0" wrote in message
oups.com...
| No, it isn't. Sounds like a reporter somewhere is looking for
| sensationalism, rather than facts.

While it doesn't surprise me that a reporter would get something

wrong,
it is irrelevant if obesity is or is not the leading cause of that

list
of diseases. All that matters is that obesity significantly
damages

a
person's health and the doctor is morally obligated to point that

out
to a patient.


Prejudice damages a person's health. Dieting can damage
a person's health. Weight loss surgery can do major damage to
a person's health. Check out studies of fat people in societies
where fat is at least tolerated, and their mortality rate is not
significantly greater than anyone else's.


Why don't you post links to those studies since you brought them up?


| | Doctors have been warning their patients of the evil of being
| | overweight for years, telling them to lose weight.
|
| For all the good it's done.

Again, whether or not the patient is too stubborn to use the news
is irrelevant. It is the job of a doctor to point out problems to
the patient.


What is relevant is that he's pointing out his problems with
her APPEARANCE, when he should be concentrating on her
health.


One affects the other.

Diets have a very high faillure and rebound rate, and it's
irresponsible to recommend one solely for the purpose of
weight loss.

Again, irrelevant.
Just because obesity is more dangerous to another group does not

mean
that it isn't dangerous to women.


Doesn't mean that it is, either. Lose enough fat and you'll
stop menstruating. Is that healthy? It happens to lots of women
who have low levels of body fat.

I partially agree here because this does get off the subject of

health,
but then again we don't know the context of the conversation.


We also haven't heard (okay, I haven't heard) the woman's
side of the story.

The part I disagree with is the "justification of a social

prejudice"
because it is a jump in logic.


Nope. Historically, medicine follows social and religious
prejudice. A hundred-odd years ago, masturbation was frowned
upon. Doctors of the time warned against it and came up with
some rather painful-looking contraptions intended to prevent it.


How is religion influencing medicine today?


Prejudice means to preconceive judgment
or an opinion. Since obesity is a well known medical condition,


It is no more a medical condition than thinness. Both are
dangerous if present in extremes, and thinness even more so.

there
is no preconception here, the doctor knows full well of the medical
complications and he's doing his job exposing them.

| | pressure, diabetes, heart disease, gastroesophageal reflux and
| stroke.

We know that correlation is not causation. There are
conditions,
such as lowered insulin sensitivity, which can cause a spectrum of
complaints. Weight gain is one of these. PCOS is such a condi-
tion, causing weight gain and hirsutism in many women . You can't
cure the condition by shaving.

| And we all know thin people never get these diseases,
don't
| we?

Again, you are making a jump in logic and have created a foolish
statement.


It was irony. Someday, maybe I'll use cue cards.

What you have stated is logically equivalent as saying "And
we all know nonsmokers never get lung cancer, don't we?" to justify
smoking.


I'm not justifying an activity. I'm justifying an appearance,
although I shouldn't have to.

| | One patient who Bennett had seen five or six times took offense
at
| the
| | lecture and filed a complaint against Bennett about a year ago
with
| the
| | New Hampshire Board of Medicine.
|
| We need more detail here. I have heard many cases of
| doctors assuming that obesity causes every illness, and serious
| diseases going untreated because the doctor could only focus
| on the weight.

Maybe the weight was the only thing he could see?


If he lets it cloud his judgmen t, he's in the wrong business.

| | Bennett says his former patient filed the complaint because "I
told
| a
| | fat woman she was obese. I tried to get her attention. I told
her
| you
| | need to get on a program, join a group of like-minded people and
| peel
| | off the weight that is going to kill you."
|
| To be fair, he should also discuss the downside of various
| weight-loss methods. Far better for the doctor to focus on the
| woman's health rather than her weight.

OK, I can agree with you here. Instead of focusing on the weight,

the
doctor should instead request that the patient engage in at least 3
half hour sessions of weight training a week and 3 half hour

sessions
of cardiovascular activity a week.


First, he should find out what activities she's already
involved in.

I don't mean the sissy exercising I
see a lot of women doing, I mean a level of weights that cause

strain
at the 10th repetition and cardio activity resulting in a heart
rate

of
140bmp or more.

Then the doctor can focus on the woman's diet. No more ice cream!

No
more candy, no more white bread, no more soda, and no more diet

soda!
Instead she'll be requested to eat a diet that's healthy!


Nothing wrong with that. We agree here. But the degree
of health she gains is not related to how much fat she loses.

This is a perfect thing for both of us. Since I recognize obesity
being the choice that it is


It's not a choice for me. I have no control over it. All I
can do is adjust my exercise and eating habits. What I weigh
as a result is completely out of my hands.


How many calories do you consume on a daily basis? Describe your
exercise regimen.


(meaning it's a choice because you choose
the consequences for your lifestyle) then a change to this
lifestyle would cause the patient to lose weight. Fat acceptance
people, on

the
other hand, who think that the body is able to become obese through
magical genetic powers will still result in the woman becoming
healthier.


Not me! I think fat is natural, and people who are naturally
slim or medium sized stay that way through magic genetic
powers.


For your assertion to be true, the human genome has evolved drastically
in the last 20 years.


I wonder if a diet consisting of 5 pounds of refined sugar ever day

had
anything to do with her becoming diabetic?


How would you know what she ate or didn't eat?

| He should attend a course on Health At Every Size. Then
he
| might be able tosomething useful, like moderate exercise or
healthier
| foods. If his patient is already eating well and exercising, he
| should send her to an endocrinologist for proper treatment.

Sounds like a Soviet re-education camp to me.


Learning to teach healthy habits is Soviet re-education????

I can hear the instructions now: "Telling fat people that their

obesity
is bad for their health can hurt their feelings. It's more
compassionate to appease someone's character flaws than to
encourage them to change them, so lie to them about the wonders of
being fat.

In
fact, give them a stick covered with Crisco when they leave your
office. Doctors always give lollipops to children, so this

shouldn't
be too difficult. The fat are already discriminated against
enough, why add age discrimination to the list of things that hurt
their selfesteem?"


This makes you sound like a total paranoid. What Health At
Every Size is about is telling people how they can improve their
health, which may or may not affect their weight.

| It's not his job to preach.

The job of the doctor is to ensure the health of the patient.


Agreed.

The
doctor would not be doing his job if he ignored a person's weight
problem. Just because some people are so narrowminded that they

cannot
handle the truth does not give them the right to engage in a BS

legal
complaint that will only serve to worsen healthcare for everyone

else.

I don't see how it would make things worse. Empowering the
patient by showing them what they can do, rather than focusing
on the holy grail of weight loss would have positive effects. For
one thing, fat people would see their doctors more frequently,
and diseases would be properly treated instead of being attrib-
uted just to fatness. That in itself ought to lower medical costs.

If she's too afraid to hear the truth about her health then the
last place she should go is to the doctor.


Then he should talk about health and things she can change,
rather than harp on weight because his tender sensibilities are
offended.

BTW, I come to this board every few months for the laughs. It's

really
amusing to read the jibberish pro-obesity comments on this board,

and
Robin you didn't disappoint! It's always a laugh seeing people

attempt
to dismiss the health dangers of obesity.


If you think that's funny, you ought to read the July issue of
Scientific American. There's a whole article debunking the CDC's
sloppy research methods. You're bound to get a few guffaws out
of that, I'm sure of it.

I always get a kick out of
the fact that many of you think it's sooooo compassionate to lie by
praising another's lifestyle that results in obesity and how you

think
it's mean sprited for another to condemn the obesity lifestyle for

the
misery that it will bring. Sadly, by the time you see the

foolishness
of your logic it may be too late.


What is sad is that you think your jeering is going to help
people. All it shows is how frightened you are.

Robin


In mid July I went to see a new obgyn - a woman since at 47 it was
increasingly difficult to explain hot flashes and peri-menopausel weight
gain to a person who would never experience.

My new doctor took one look at my 206 pounds and told me in no uncertain
terms that I was fat and needed to lose weight. If I chose not to do so I
could find another doctor.

Well.....Having never been spoken to in such a manner I was stunned into
silence. She took that opportunity to give me some straight talk on carb
overload, insulin resistance. As to why an extremely atheletic person such
as myself who has been enshrined at the local Y as the eillipiticle goddess,
able to ride hard for an hour at a pop, looked like I was ready to deliver.

Must banish carbs. Period. End of sentence. Told me to go buy a copy of
the SBC and follow it.

Been a month now and nary a slice of bread, bowl of rice, pasta or my
favorite cola has passed my lips. Even in high summer as a mid-western mama
I haven't touched an ear of Silver Queen or sliced into an Indiana melon. I
live on bacon, eggbeaters, cheese, steaks, fresh tuna, salmon and salad. A
dessert junkie I now eat a mix of ricotta cheese. unsweetened cocoa and
splenda. I allow myself the occasional suger free popsicle.

I'm afraid to weigh myself for fear of disappointment, but I will say that
rather than look like I am ready to deliver I now resemble someone going
into their final tri-mester.

Personally, I am glad my doctor was so straight-forward. If telling me I
was fatter than a fritter and heading to 300 pounds was the thing I needed,
brava for her.

(the)duckster
waddling less each day


  #8  
Old August 27th, 2005, 05:32 PM
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

People listen to their TVs telling them there stomachs are not full
enough.
The TV depresses the hell into people for 8 - 10 minutes and then takes
a 2 - 3 minute break to tell them how to comfort themselves with great
tasting crap.

http://debunkbigpharma.blognation.us/blog

  #9  
Old September 6th, 2005, 02:51 AM
Annie Benson Lennaman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



"(the)duckster" wrote:
My new doctor took one look at my 206 pounds and told me in no uncertain

terms that I was fat and needed to lose weight. If I chose not to do so I
could find another doctor.


Must banish carbs. Period. End of sentence. Told me to go buy a copy of
the SBC and follow it.


Your doctor told you to banish carbs? And insinuated that that was
_the_ way to lose weight? I don't doubt that there are many people who
have lost weight going low carb, and I am happy for them. But there are
other legitimate ways to lose weight that don't involve going low carb.
I'm on a self directed low calorie diet, and the bulk of my calories
come from whole grain sources, which are of course high carb.

Different things work for different people. It just sounds odd to me
that a doctor would push a particular diet plan so heavily.

--
Annie

As of 8-26-05: 258/210.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4.

47.5 pounds lost. 70.5 left to go. Started February/07/05

Come visit my weight-loss web site, Annie Takes Off.
http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/DietFrontPage.html
  #10  
Old September 6th, 2005, 01:52 PM
BJ in Texas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Annie Benson Lennaman
wrote:
|| "(the)duckster" wrote:
|||| My new doctor took one look at my 206 pounds and told me in
|||| no uncertain
||| terms that I was fat and needed to lose weight. If I chose
||| not to do so I could find another doctor.
||
||| Must banish carbs. Period. End of sentence. Told me to go
||| buy a copy of the SBC and follow it.
||
|| Your doctor told you to banish carbs? And insinuated that
|| that was _the_ way to lose weight? I don't doubt that there
|| are many people who have lost weight going low carb, and I am
|| happy for them. But there are other legitimate ways to lose
|| weight that don't involve going low carb. I'm on a self
|| directed low calorie diet, and the bulk of my calories
|| come from whole grain sources, which are of course high carb.
||
|| Different things work for different people. It just sounds
|| odd to me that a doctor would push a particular diet plan so
|| heavily.
||
|| --
|| Annie
||
|| As of 8-26-05: 258/210.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4.
||
|| 47.5 pounds lost. 70.5 left to go. Started February/07/05
||
|| Come visit my weight-loss web site, Annie Takes Off.
|| http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/DietFrontPage.html

Doctors have been pushing low-fat low-cal for years. Why
should one push what he thinks will work?

--
"The most effective form of brainwashing is that which makes the
subject believe that others have been brainwashed, not him!!"


 




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