If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Fat woman files complaint (OBESE post)
Robin King wrote:
"scs0" wrote in message oups.com... | No, it isn't. Sounds like a reporter somewhere is looking for | sensationalism, rather than facts. While it doesn't surprise me that a reporter would get something wrong, it is irrelevant if obesity is or is not the leading cause of that list of diseases. All that matters is that obesity significantly damages a person's health and the doctor is morally obligated to point that out to a patient. Prejudice damages a person's health. Dieting can damage a person's health. Weight loss surgery can do major damage to a person's health. Check out studies of fat people in societies where fat is at least tolerated, and their mortality rate is not significantly greater than anyone else's. Why don't you post links to those studies since you brought them up? | | Doctors have been warning their patients of the evil of being | | overweight for years, telling them to lose weight. | | For all the good it's done. Again, whether or not the patient is too stubborn to use the news is irrelevant. It is the job of a doctor to point out problems to the patient. What is relevant is that he's pointing out his problems with her APPEARANCE, when he should be concentrating on her health. One affects the other. Diets have a very high faillure and rebound rate, and it's irresponsible to recommend one solely for the purpose of weight loss. Again, irrelevant. Just because obesity is more dangerous to another group does not mean that it isn't dangerous to women. Doesn't mean that it is, either. Lose enough fat and you'll stop menstruating. Is that healthy? It happens to lots of women who have low levels of body fat. I partially agree here because this does get off the subject of health, but then again we don't know the context of the conversation. We also haven't heard (okay, I haven't heard) the woman's side of the story. The part I disagree with is the "justification of a social prejudice" because it is a jump in logic. Nope. Historically, medicine follows social and religious prejudice. A hundred-odd years ago, masturbation was frowned upon. Doctors of the time warned against it and came up with some rather painful-looking contraptions intended to prevent it. How is religion influencing medicine today? Prejudice means to preconceive judgment or an opinion. Since obesity is a well known medical condition, It is no more a medical condition than thinness. Both are dangerous if present in extremes, and thinness even more so. there is no preconception here, the doctor knows full well of the medical complications and he's doing his job exposing them. | | pressure, diabetes, heart disease, gastroesophageal reflux and | stroke. We know that correlation is not causation. There are conditions, such as lowered insulin sensitivity, which can cause a spectrum of complaints. Weight gain is one of these. PCOS is such a condi- tion, causing weight gain and hirsutism in many women . You can't cure the condition by shaving. | And we all know thin people never get these diseases, don't | we? Again, you are making a jump in logic and have created a foolish statement. It was irony. Someday, maybe I'll use cue cards. What you have stated is logically equivalent as saying "And we all know nonsmokers never get lung cancer, don't we?" to justify smoking. I'm not justifying an activity. I'm justifying an appearance, although I shouldn't have to. | | One patient who Bennett had seen five or six times took offense at | the | | lecture and filed a complaint against Bennett about a year ago with | the | | New Hampshire Board of Medicine. | | We need more detail here. I have heard many cases of | doctors assuming that obesity causes every illness, and serious | diseases going untreated because the doctor could only focus | on the weight. Maybe the weight was the only thing he could see? If he lets it cloud his judgmen t, he's in the wrong business. | | Bennett says his former patient filed the complaint because "I told | a | | fat woman she was obese. I tried to get her attention. I told her | you | | need to get on a program, join a group of like-minded people and | peel | | off the weight that is going to kill you." | | To be fair, he should also discuss the downside of various | weight-loss methods. Far better for the doctor to focus on the | woman's health rather than her weight. OK, I can agree with you here. Instead of focusing on the weight, the doctor should instead request that the patient engage in at least 3 half hour sessions of weight training a week and 3 half hour sessions of cardiovascular activity a week. First, he should find out what activities she's already involved in. I don't mean the sissy exercising I see a lot of women doing, I mean a level of weights that cause strain at the 10th repetition and cardio activity resulting in a heart rate of 140bmp or more. Then the doctor can focus on the woman's diet. No more ice cream! No more candy, no more white bread, no more soda, and no more diet soda! Instead she'll be requested to eat a diet that's healthy! Nothing wrong with that. We agree here. But the degree of health she gains is not related to how much fat she loses. This is a perfect thing for both of us. Since I recognize obesity being the choice that it is It's not a choice for me. I have no control over it. All I can do is adjust my exercise and eating habits. What I weigh as a result is completely out of my hands. How many calories do you consume on a daily basis? Describe your exercise regimen. (meaning it's a choice because you choose the consequences for your lifestyle) then a change to this lifestyle would cause the patient to lose weight. Fat acceptance people, on the other hand, who think that the body is able to become obese through magical genetic powers will still result in the woman becoming healthier. Not me! I think fat is natural, and people who are naturally slim or medium sized stay that way through magic genetic powers. For your assertion to be true, the human genome has evolved drastically in the last 20 years. I wonder if a diet consisting of 5 pounds of refined sugar ever day had anything to do with her becoming diabetic? How would you know what she ate or didn't eat? | He should attend a course on Health At Every Size. Then he | might be able tosomething useful, like moderate exercise or healthier | foods. If his patient is already eating well and exercising, he | should send her to an endocrinologist for proper treatment. Sounds like a Soviet re-education camp to me. Learning to teach healthy habits is Soviet re-education???? I can hear the instructions now: "Telling fat people that their obesity is bad for their health can hurt their feelings. It's more compassionate to appease someone's character flaws than to encourage them to change them, so lie to them about the wonders of being fat. In fact, give them a stick covered with Crisco when they leave your office. Doctors always give lollipops to children, so this shouldn't be too difficult. The fat are already discriminated against enough, why add age discrimination to the list of things that hurt their selfesteem?" This makes you sound like a total paranoid. What Health At Every Size is about is telling people how they can improve their health, which may or may not affect their weight. | It's not his job to preach. The job of the doctor is to ensure the health of the patient. Agreed. The doctor would not be doing his job if he ignored a person's weight problem. Just because some people are so narrowminded that they cannot handle the truth does not give them the right to engage in a BS legal complaint that will only serve to worsen healthcare for everyone else. I don't see how it would make things worse. Empowering the patient by showing them what they can do, rather than focusing on the holy grail of weight loss would have positive effects. For one thing, fat people would see their doctors more frequently, and diseases would be properly treated instead of being attrib- uted just to fatness. That in itself ought to lower medical costs. If she's too afraid to hear the truth about her health then the last place she should go is to the doctor. Then he should talk about health and things she can change, rather than harp on weight because his tender sensibilities are offended. BTW, I come to this board every few months for the laughs. It's really amusing to read the jibberish pro-obesity comments on this board, and Robin you didn't disappoint! It's always a laugh seeing people attempt to dismiss the health dangers of obesity. If you think that's funny, you ought to read the July issue of Scientific American. There's a whole article debunking the CDC's sloppy research methods. You're bound to get a few guffaws out of that, I'm sure of it. I always get a kick out of the fact that many of you think it's sooooo compassionate to lie by praising another's lifestyle that results in obesity and how you think it's mean sprited for another to condemn the obesity lifestyle for the misery that it will bring. Sadly, by the time you see the foolishness of your logic it may be too late. What is sad is that you think your jeering is going to help people. All it shows is how frightened you are. Robin |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
If her doctor decided to lecture her on being fat obviously he thought
there was no reason for it but laziness. Likely not the first time he has brought it up. BJ |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
One of the reasons health insurance costs are high is because people
don't take care of themselves. Not only was the doctor right for saying she's too fat, but if she refused to go on a diet or undergo any kind of treatment for her weight problem, her health insurance rate should go up. It's like a person on welfare who refuses to look for a job. And I hope she's sued for speaking badly about her doctor. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
You mean to tell me he had no regard for your father's self-esteem?
The doctor could have hurt his feelings! He had him strip and look at himself in the mirror? That means Robin is right! It is all about appearance! The doctor must have had the hots for your father and wanted him to get buff because, as we all know, there's no correlation between obesity and a person's overall health.[/sarcasm] Seriously, though, it's good to hear that there are some doctors out there who are still more interested in doing their jobs than being a puppet to the pressures of political correctness. You never know what pressure will finally be the event that causes someone to finally make the decision to lose weight. For me it was a series of small events that I finally just couldn't ignore and one of those events was my doctor telling me that I need to lose weight. Sometimes we know something intellectually, but it takes an emotional push (like your father's mirror test) to finally make the change. I lost about 80 pounds by doing the unthinkable: I began eating less and exercising more. *GASP* Unfortunately a lot of fat people on this site read posts from liars and the ignorant who are just trying to excuse their character flaw and it does nothing to make them change. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
The reason the obese get so mad at people pointing out their obesity is
that people are generally embarrassed by their self-imposed failures or character flaws. If you gamble excessively, drink like a frat boy, smoke like a chimney, do drugs, beat your spouse, or engage in bulimia then you can keep those embarrassing secrets hidden from others. Even if other people know about these traits you can often convince yourself that they do not. With obesity it's impossible to hide the fact that you are a failure at managing your health because obesity makes you huge. I think that's why obesity proponents are so bitter and so blind to reality. They remind me of OJ Simpson, as guilty as the man is you actually get the feeling when he is interviewed that he believes his own lies. It's like he exists in his own little world that was created within his own mind and has its own warped rules. Read some of the obesity proponent posts on this site and that's exactly what you see. Like with Robin's posts, obviously they are full of crap but I actually get the impression that Robin *BELIEVES* the crap he or she is writing and you wonder what sort of Twinkie high Robin's on to create such twisted posts. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Per BJ:
If her doctor decided to lecture her on being fat obviously he thought there was no reason for it but My dad was the chief financial officer of a major media company. i.e. Someone in a position of unquestioned authority - used to people accommodating his every whim. We were living in Westport CT, and our family doctor - a little guy about 5'2" with a pencil mustache - had my dad strip naked in his office and stand in front of a full-length mirror. The doc then said to my-dad-the-bigtime-business-executive "Take a good look at yourself. You're too damn fat." My dad's respect for our family doctor knew no bounds thereafter - and he must've told that story to us a hundred times... He also lost about 40 pounds. -- PeteCresswell |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Hunter" wrote in message ... Robin King wrote: "scs0" wrote in message oups.com... | No, it isn't. Sounds like a reporter somewhere is looking for | sensationalism, rather than facts. While it doesn't surprise me that a reporter would get something wrong, it is irrelevant if obesity is or is not the leading cause of that list of diseases. All that matters is that obesity significantly damages a person's health and the doctor is morally obligated to point that out to a patient. Prejudice damages a person's health. Dieting can damage a person's health. Weight loss surgery can do major damage to a person's health. Check out studies of fat people in societies where fat is at least tolerated, and their mortality rate is not significantly greater than anyone else's. Why don't you post links to those studies since you brought them up? | | Doctors have been warning their patients of the evil of being | | overweight for years, telling them to lose weight. | | For all the good it's done. Again, whether or not the patient is too stubborn to use the news is irrelevant. It is the job of a doctor to point out problems to the patient. What is relevant is that he's pointing out his problems with her APPEARANCE, when he should be concentrating on her health. One affects the other. Diets have a very high faillure and rebound rate, and it's irresponsible to recommend one solely for the purpose of weight loss. Again, irrelevant. Just because obesity is more dangerous to another group does not mean that it isn't dangerous to women. Doesn't mean that it is, either. Lose enough fat and you'll stop menstruating. Is that healthy? It happens to lots of women who have low levels of body fat. I partially agree here because this does get off the subject of health, but then again we don't know the context of the conversation. We also haven't heard (okay, I haven't heard) the woman's side of the story. The part I disagree with is the "justification of a social prejudice" because it is a jump in logic. Nope. Historically, medicine follows social and religious prejudice. A hundred-odd years ago, masturbation was frowned upon. Doctors of the time warned against it and came up with some rather painful-looking contraptions intended to prevent it. How is religion influencing medicine today? Prejudice means to preconceive judgment or an opinion. Since obesity is a well known medical condition, It is no more a medical condition than thinness. Both are dangerous if present in extremes, and thinness even more so. there is no preconception here, the doctor knows full well of the medical complications and he's doing his job exposing them. | | pressure, diabetes, heart disease, gastroesophageal reflux and | stroke. We know that correlation is not causation. There are conditions, such as lowered insulin sensitivity, which can cause a spectrum of complaints. Weight gain is one of these. PCOS is such a condi- tion, causing weight gain and hirsutism in many women . You can't cure the condition by shaving. | And we all know thin people never get these diseases, don't | we? Again, you are making a jump in logic and have created a foolish statement. It was irony. Someday, maybe I'll use cue cards. What you have stated is logically equivalent as saying "And we all know nonsmokers never get lung cancer, don't we?" to justify smoking. I'm not justifying an activity. I'm justifying an appearance, although I shouldn't have to. | | One patient who Bennett had seen five or six times took offense at | the | | lecture and filed a complaint against Bennett about a year ago with | the | | New Hampshire Board of Medicine. | | We need more detail here. I have heard many cases of | doctors assuming that obesity causes every illness, and serious | diseases going untreated because the doctor could only focus | on the weight. Maybe the weight was the only thing he could see? If he lets it cloud his judgmen t, he's in the wrong business. | | Bennett says his former patient filed the complaint because "I told | a | | fat woman she was obese. I tried to get her attention. I told her | you | | need to get on a program, join a group of like-minded people and | peel | | off the weight that is going to kill you." | | To be fair, he should also discuss the downside of various | weight-loss methods. Far better for the doctor to focus on the | woman's health rather than her weight. OK, I can agree with you here. Instead of focusing on the weight, the doctor should instead request that the patient engage in at least 3 half hour sessions of weight training a week and 3 half hour sessions of cardiovascular activity a week. First, he should find out what activities she's already involved in. I don't mean the sissy exercising I see a lot of women doing, I mean a level of weights that cause strain at the 10th repetition and cardio activity resulting in a heart rate of 140bmp or more. Then the doctor can focus on the woman's diet. No more ice cream! No more candy, no more white bread, no more soda, and no more diet soda! Instead she'll be requested to eat a diet that's healthy! Nothing wrong with that. We agree here. But the degree of health she gains is not related to how much fat she loses. This is a perfect thing for both of us. Since I recognize obesity being the choice that it is It's not a choice for me. I have no control over it. All I can do is adjust my exercise and eating habits. What I weigh as a result is completely out of my hands. How many calories do you consume on a daily basis? Describe your exercise regimen. (meaning it's a choice because you choose the consequences for your lifestyle) then a change to this lifestyle would cause the patient to lose weight. Fat acceptance people, on the other hand, who think that the body is able to become obese through magical genetic powers will still result in the woman becoming healthier. Not me! I think fat is natural, and people who are naturally slim or medium sized stay that way through magic genetic powers. For your assertion to be true, the human genome has evolved drastically in the last 20 years. I wonder if a diet consisting of 5 pounds of refined sugar ever day had anything to do with her becoming diabetic? How would you know what she ate or didn't eat? | He should attend a course on Health At Every Size. Then he | might be able tosomething useful, like moderate exercise or healthier | foods. If his patient is already eating well and exercising, he | should send her to an endocrinologist for proper treatment. Sounds like a Soviet re-education camp to me. Learning to teach healthy habits is Soviet re-education???? I can hear the instructions now: "Telling fat people that their obesity is bad for their health can hurt their feelings. It's more compassionate to appease someone's character flaws than to encourage them to change them, so lie to them about the wonders of being fat. In fact, give them a stick covered with Crisco when they leave your office. Doctors always give lollipops to children, so this shouldn't be too difficult. The fat are already discriminated against enough, why add age discrimination to the list of things that hurt their selfesteem?" This makes you sound like a total paranoid. What Health At Every Size is about is telling people how they can improve their health, which may or may not affect their weight. | It's not his job to preach. The job of the doctor is to ensure the health of the patient. Agreed. The doctor would not be doing his job if he ignored a person's weight problem. Just because some people are so narrowminded that they cannot handle the truth does not give them the right to engage in a BS legal complaint that will only serve to worsen healthcare for everyone else. I don't see how it would make things worse. Empowering the patient by showing them what they can do, rather than focusing on the holy grail of weight loss would have positive effects. For one thing, fat people would see their doctors more frequently, and diseases would be properly treated instead of being attrib- uted just to fatness. That in itself ought to lower medical costs. If she's too afraid to hear the truth about her health then the last place she should go is to the doctor. Then he should talk about health and things she can change, rather than harp on weight because his tender sensibilities are offended. BTW, I come to this board every few months for the laughs. It's really amusing to read the jibberish pro-obesity comments on this board, and Robin you didn't disappoint! It's always a laugh seeing people attempt to dismiss the health dangers of obesity. If you think that's funny, you ought to read the July issue of Scientific American. There's a whole article debunking the CDC's sloppy research methods. You're bound to get a few guffaws out of that, I'm sure of it. I always get a kick out of the fact that many of you think it's sooooo compassionate to lie by praising another's lifestyle that results in obesity and how you think it's mean sprited for another to condemn the obesity lifestyle for the misery that it will bring. Sadly, by the time you see the foolishness of your logic it may be too late. What is sad is that you think your jeering is going to help people. All it shows is how frightened you are. Robin In mid July I went to see a new obgyn - a woman since at 47 it was increasingly difficult to explain hot flashes and peri-menopausel weight gain to a person who would never experience. My new doctor took one look at my 206 pounds and told me in no uncertain terms that I was fat and needed to lose weight. If I chose not to do so I could find another doctor. Well.....Having never been spoken to in such a manner I was stunned into silence. She took that opportunity to give me some straight talk on carb overload, insulin resistance. As to why an extremely atheletic person such as myself who has been enshrined at the local Y as the eillipiticle goddess, able to ride hard for an hour at a pop, looked like I was ready to deliver. Must banish carbs. Period. End of sentence. Told me to go buy a copy of the SBC and follow it. Been a month now and nary a slice of bread, bowl of rice, pasta or my favorite cola has passed my lips. Even in high summer as a mid-western mama I haven't touched an ear of Silver Queen or sliced into an Indiana melon. I live on bacon, eggbeaters, cheese, steaks, fresh tuna, salmon and salad. A dessert junkie I now eat a mix of ricotta cheese. unsweetened cocoa and splenda. I allow myself the occasional suger free popsicle. I'm afraid to weigh myself for fear of disappointment, but I will say that rather than look like I am ready to deliver I now resemble someone going into their final tri-mester. Personally, I am glad my doctor was so straight-forward. If telling me I was fatter than a fritter and heading to 300 pounds was the thing I needed, brava for her. (the)duckster waddling less each day |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
People listen to their TVs telling them there stomachs are not full
enough. The TV depresses the hell into people for 8 - 10 minutes and then takes a 2 - 3 minute break to tell them how to comfort themselves with great tasting crap. http://debunkbigpharma.blognation.us/blog |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
"(the)duckster" wrote: My new doctor took one look at my 206 pounds and told me in no uncertain terms that I was fat and needed to lose weight. If I chose not to do so I could find another doctor. Must banish carbs. Period. End of sentence. Told me to go buy a copy of the SBC and follow it. Your doctor told you to banish carbs? And insinuated that that was _the_ way to lose weight? I don't doubt that there are many people who have lost weight going low carb, and I am happy for them. But there are other legitimate ways to lose weight that don't involve going low carb. I'm on a self directed low calorie diet, and the bulk of my calories come from whole grain sources, which are of course high carb. Different things work for different people. It just sounds odd to me that a doctor would push a particular diet plan so heavily. -- Annie As of 8-26-05: 258/210.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 47.5 pounds lost. 70.5 left to go. Started February/07/05 Come visit my weight-loss web site, Annie Takes Off. http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/DietFrontPage.html |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Annie Benson Lennaman
wrote: || "(the)duckster" wrote: |||| My new doctor took one look at my 206 pounds and told me in |||| no uncertain ||| terms that I was fat and needed to lose weight. If I chose ||| not to do so I could find another doctor. || ||| Must banish carbs. Period. End of sentence. Told me to go ||| buy a copy of the SBC and follow it. || || Your doctor told you to banish carbs? And insinuated that || that was _the_ way to lose weight? I don't doubt that there || are many people who have lost weight going low carb, and I am || happy for them. But there are other legitimate ways to lose || weight that don't involve going low carb. I'm on a self || directed low calorie diet, and the bulk of my calories || come from whole grain sources, which are of course high carb. || || Different things work for different people. It just sounds || odd to me that a doctor would push a particular diet plan so || heavily. || || -- || Annie || || As of 8-26-05: 258/210.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. || || 47.5 pounds lost. 70.5 left to go. Started February/07/05 || || Come visit my weight-loss web site, Annie Takes Off. || http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/DietFrontPage.html Doctors have been pushing low-fat low-cal for years. Why should one push what he thinks will work? -- "The most effective form of brainwashing is that which makes the subject believe that others have been brainwashed, not him!!" |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Fat woman files complaint (OBESE post) | Hunter | General Discussion | 17 | September 7th, 2005 02:00 PM |
How to Prevent the Obese From Becoming "Obeser" -- Stop Eating | Lesanne | General Discussion | 0 | January 5th, 2005 12:19 PM |
30 pounds in 30 days?? | T5ayLor | Low Carbohydrate Diets | 22 | December 29th, 2004 04:52 PM |
Obese females, but not males, suffer on payday | Jean C | General Discussion | 3 | March 28th, 2004 10:49 PM |