The Bally's adventure

"Beverly" wrote in message
...

If the machines are anything like the ones at my gym they don't force you
through the moves You have to supply the power and they prevent you
from
dropping the weights, etc. I do both but prefer the machines when I
attempt
heavier weights.


That's the main reason that I want to stick to the machines. I still have no
idea what I'm doing, the trainer had to show me how to lift with each
exercise, and the way my hands sweat, I'll most likely end up dropping a 25
pound dumbbell on my face.

Damn, I wish these trainers weren't so freakin' expensive. And to think that
I used to feel like a pirate when I had to charge $60 for a service call
(just to ring the door bell) and another $75/hr labor. Then there's the 300%
markup on the parts...

"Beverly" wrote in message
...

If the machines are anything like the ones at my gym they don't force you
through the moves You have to supply the power and they prevent you
from
dropping the weights, etc. I do both but prefer the machines when I
attempt
heavier weights.


That's the main reason that I want to stick to the machines. I still have no
idea what I'm doing, the trainer had to show me how to lift with each
exercise, and the way my hands sweat, I'll most likely end up dropping a 25
pound dumbbell on my face.

Damn, I wish these trainers weren't so freakin' expensive. And to think that
I used to feel like a pirate when I had to charge $60 for a service call
(just to ring the door bell) and another $75/hr labor. Then there's the 300%
markup on the parts...

Dally wrote:

Rob wrote:

Lictor wrote:


Most serious weight lifters seem to *hate* machines and prefer free
weights.


Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction.
Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do
not. This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to
injury. All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used
to and *rip* something’s hurt. These injuries often happen outside of
the gym when doing normal chores or household maintenance.


LOL, you make it sound positively DANGEROUS to get too close to a
Nautilus machine!


Sorry, that was merely to explain one reason “serious weight lifters”
use free weights. I didn’t mean to scare people away from Nautilus as a
starting point. Perhaps when the settings get heavier, it’s time to
move on.

Can’t say that I ever did Curves (wrong parts), but I did Life Fitness
(Nautilus type) for two years. The switch to free weights quickly
showed me how weak my supporting/balance muscles were.

I agree with what you said about having to start somewhere. Curves is
an easy and private way to start a resistance workout. Several of my
female friends started at Curves. None of them still attend as they now
like the free weights or exercise classes at the local gyms.

Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy
complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker
rooms. Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting
lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more
modest than men I guess.




Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully,
under the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance
muscles can re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid
injury.


Free weights are indeed better. And running a five minute mile is
better than running a fifteen minute mile. But you have to start
somewhere.

In my opinion, Curves is an excellent place for an out-of-shape woman to
get an intro to reistance training in a supportive environment. My YMCA
has a similar set-up for out-of-shape people called a "personal fitness
program" where they've got a special room with curtains so us jocks
can't gawk at the fat people. (LOL, I love being one of the jocks
instead of the fat people in that sentence!)

Anyway, the thing is, you graduate. You go from NOT moving to moving in
ways that seem accessible to you then to trying new things. I totally
agree that free weights are best - for all the reasons you said - but
Nautilus is an accessible step. I did Nautilus for a full eight years
before I graduated to free weights. And I doubt I would have moved into
free weights if my gym hadn't offered an "Intro to Free Weights" class
that turned all the surrealistic furniture into equipment I knew and
understood. There was a definite learning curve. Worth it, but not
negligible.

So - way to go Smokey. This week you took a great step. And you'll
keep taking steps over and over again until you've become a slender
person! Way to go!

Dally

"Rob" wrote in message
...

Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy
complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker
rooms.

Why does a certain scene from Porky's immediately come to mind? LOL

Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting
lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more
modest than men I guess.


It's a lot easier for guys. Don't look around at all, and if you really feel
you need to, don't get caught. You can't complain without admitting that
you've been peeking. ;-]

"Rob" wrote in message
...

Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy
complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker
rooms.

Why does a certain scene from Porky's immediately come to mind? LOL

Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting
lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more
modest than men I guess.


It's a lot easier for guys. Don't look around at all, and if you really feel
you need to, don't get caught. You can't complain without admitting that
you've been peeking. ;-]

NeoSmokey wrote:

"Rob" wrote in message
...


Curtains is an interesting concept I haven’t seen. The privacy
complaints I hear about are more of women not covering-up in the locker
rooms.


Why does a certain scene from Porky's immediately come to mind? LOL


Apparently women just don’t appreciate another woman putting
lotion on their ankles in the locker room naked. Women are a bit more
modest than men I guess.



It's a lot easier for guys. Don't look around at all, and if you really feel
you need to, don't get caught. You can't complain without admitting that
you've been peeking. ;-]



Peeking? Like the guys wearing thier glasses in a gang shower? What's
up with THAT?

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:15 -0400, Rob wrote:

Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction.

Muscles pull levers around joint axis.

Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do not.

Nope.

This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to injury.

Are you a PT?

All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used to and
*rip* somethingÿs hurt. These injuries often happen outside of the gym
when doing normal chores or household maintenance. ´Seems light.¡,
´Push or pull a lot more than this at the gym¡ one little movement
outside what the muscle is used to and *ouch*.

lol

Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully, under
the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance muscles can
re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid injury.

What a load of crap.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:15 -0400, Rob wrote:

Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction.

Muscles pull levers around joint axis.

Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do not.

Nope.

This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to injury.

Are you a PT?

All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used to and
*rip* somethingÿs hurt. These injuries often happen outside of the gym
when doing normal chores or household maintenance. ´Seems light.¡,
´Push or pull a lot more than this at the gym¡ one little movement
outside what the muscle is used to and *ouch*.

lol

Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully, under
the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance muscles can
re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid injury.

What a load of crap.

MU wrote:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:42:15 -0400, Rob wrote:


Nautilus type machines work muscles in a very specific direction.


Muscles pull levers around joint axis.


Muscles grow strong in that direction but the supporting muscles do not.


Nope.


This can yield a false feeling of strength that can lead to injury.


Are you a PT?


All it takes is a slight movement off axis of what one is used to and
*rip* somethingÿs hurt. These injuries often happen outside of the gym
when doing normal chores or household maintenance. ´Seems light.¡,
´Push or pull a lot more than this at the gym¡ one little movement
outside what the muscle is used to and *ouch*.


lol


Free weights work the supporting muscles for balance. Hopefully, under
the same dangerous conditions mentioned above, these balance muscles can
re-center the load back to the strength zone and avoid injury.


What a load of crap.


Nope, not a physical trainer, but ask them plenty of questions while I
frequent the gym. I started on Circuit type machines, moved to free
weights, took a big step backwards for safety and finally got my weight
numbers back to where they were on the Nautilus type machines.

Apparently I didnÿt describe the balance concept well enough.

A typical Flat Bench Press machine offers resistance in a vertical push
direction. It allows motion up and down to accomplish the repetitions.
It does not allow movement on any horizontal axis because the
mechanical coupling or hinge restricts it. It can only move up or down.

Using a typical Free Weight bench and barbell, the weight is still
supposed to move up and down but there is nothing preventing it from
shifting left, right, forward or backward. This is the ´balance¡ that
requires supporting muscles I was trying to describe. Supporting
muscles must keep the weight from going any direction but up and down.
Itÿs fairly impossible to move a Flat Bench Press machine left, right,
forward or backward without physically damaging the machine.

A typical Forearm Curl machine offers resistance in rotating pulling
motion. During this rotation the wrists are usually held steady on a
handle bar. Swap this exercise with a Free Weight type dumbbells and
the wrist rotation support is gone. This makes a large difference in
the muscle used. As an example, lift an object palm up. Now lift that
same object thumb up. Notice the change in the forearm muscles used?
If you didnÿt, try wrapping your opposite hand around the lifting
forearm. Now repeat the exercise again. Feel a difference. The
dumbbell exercise must focus on either of the muscles since wrist
rotation could happen at any time during the lift.

Move the dumbbells to the above mentioned bench press exercise and it
adds wrist rotation to the before mentioned horizontal axis issues.
Dumbbells require more balance strength than barbells. Barbells require
more balance strength than Circuit machines.

Of course all Circuit type machines are not created equal and somebody
undoubtedly will let me know of one that functions just like dumbbells.
This was a general explanation as to why free weights are preferred
over Circuit machines for heavy lifting.

I hope this helped.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:28:46 -0400, Rob wrote:

Nope, not a physical trainer, but ask them plenty of questions while I
frequent the gym.

You just made two mistakes; asking then believing.

Apparently I didnÿt describe the balance concept well enough.

I have no idea what that is.

A typical Flat Bench Press machine offers resistance in a vertical push
direction. It allows motion up and down to accomplish the repetitions.

No, except for machine created friction, gravity is the resistance in a
f=ma mode.

It does not allow movement on any horizontal axis because the
mechanical coupling or hinge restricts it. It can only move up or down.

Using a typical Free Weight bench and barbell, the weight is still
supposed to move up and down but there is nothing preventing it from
shifting left, right, forward or backward. This is the ´balance¡ that
requires supporting muscles I was trying to describe.

Which "supporting muscles" do you mean? Name a "supporting muscle" and tell
me how it supports.

Supporting
muscles must keep the weight from going any direction but up and down.
Itÿs fairly impossible to move a Flat Bench Press machine left, right,
forward or backward without physically damaging the machine.

Then a "J" hook bench lift is one where these supporting muscles are
checking in and out?

A typical Forearm Curl machine offers resistance in rotating pulling
motion. During this rotation the wrists are usually held steady on a
handle bar. Swap this exercise with a Free Weight type dumbbells and
the wrist rotation support is gone. This makes a large difference in
the muscle used. As an example, lift an object palm up. Now lift that
same object thumb up. Notice the change in the forearm muscles used?

Any change of joint axis in relation to its original positioning will
require the firing of different muscle groups to complete an action. This
is a dynamic and also changes without a joint axis change as momentum and
other physical forces come into play. INO, any human motion is a result of
a complex seies of neuromuscular events that can be graphed over time to
show a myriad of muscular activities. evr changing, moment ot moment within
the same lift.

If you didnÿt, try wrapping your opposite hand around the lifting
forearm. Now repeat the exercise again. Feel a difference. The
dumbbell exercise must focus on either of the muscles since wrist
rotation could happen at any time during the lift.

Ok, all well and good but the same muscles that you claim are prevented
from palm supination/pronation don't simply lie down dead when the wrist is
locked.

Move the dumbbells to the above mentioned bench press exercise and it
adds wrist rotation to the before mentioned horizontal axis issues.
Dumbbells require more balance strength than barbells.

There are many strengths defined in sports science. Balance strength is not
one of them.

Barbells require
more balance strength than Circuit machines.

Of course all Circuit type machines are not created equal and somebody
undoubtedly will let me know of one that functions just like dumbbells.

Not if the machine is attached to the load being functioned upon.Free is
free' not free is not free.

This was a general explanation as to why free weights are preferred
over Circuit machines for heavy lifting.

I don't know that they are. I don't know exactly what a circuit machine is
but ime I have seen heavy lifters spend as much time on various machines as
free weights especially if the final outcome is hypertrophy cosmetics. And
why not? Machines load faster, are more easily changed, rarely require
"spotting" or assistance.