Kimkins?

Any truth/validity to Kimkins? Is it all that great? It seems to be a highly
restricted version of old-school Atkins/Stillman. There are some pretty big
claims made and quite a bit of press.

There's soooo much crap on the Internet, and this lady doesn't have any
qualifications other than "I lost weight". I would normally ignore this kind
of thing, but the name keeps coming up.

em wrote:
:: Any truth/validity to Kimkins? Is it all that great? It seems to be
:: a highly restricted version of old-school Atkins/Stillman. There are
:: some pretty big claims made and quite a bit of press.
::
:: There's soooo much crap on the Internet, and this lady doesn't have
:: any qualifications other than "I lost weight". I would normally
:: ignore this kind of thing, but the name keeps coming up.

The best approach is to keep ignoring it.

I recently read SugarBusters and was kinda blown away by how stupid I
thought the program was - used to be a lot of folks here doing it and
I never knew what it was. I can't write a review of that cause I
already tossed the book. But I have gotten curious about what low-
carb plans I'm unfamilair with consist of, so I figured I'd look at
Kimmer's thang and am writing a review.

You can't find out what the plan is from her website unless you join.
If you're a joiner, it's a good deal though - we're talking under $60
for a lifetime membership. Of the diet plans that you have to join,
you can't get a better deal than that. And I think you get a LOT of
emotional support for that $60, so if you need that, it could be a
good thing.

There's no book as of yet. However, you can find out what her plan is
by going to the forum at lowcarbfriends.com where she was a long-time
poster and a bit of a guru to a lot of the folks there. Kimmer
believed in old-style Atkins, meaning you don't subtract fiber or
sugar alcohols and don't eat frankenfoods. She is also a fan of the
Stillman Diet as well as the original Atkins. Although I'd say what
her diet mostly consists of is lots of handholding by Kimmer. She is
BIG on the emotional support thang.

She "modified" Atkins to a degree in that she chose only lean meats
and just enough fat to make food edible and pretty much cut out dairy,
nuts and nut butters, etc. So on the one hand, it is sort of a low-
fat Atkins plan. On the other hand, the carbs are so low that it's
still more than 50% of calories from fat. Basically, it's a calorie-
restricted version of Atkins induction, quite a lot of the folks doing
it are under 1000 calories/day. It's kinda what JC is always posting
around here (but she is a hell of a lot nicer than he is).

The more traditional low-carbers said she wasn't doing Atkins at all,
and one of them named what she was doing "Kimkins" instead and that's
where the name came from. She lost 160 lbs in 7 months while
untreated for a serious thyroid condition and without exercise. This
is why she is a "guru" to folks. She didn't seem to ruin her
metabolism eating low calorie. First off, it was already kinda ruined
what with the thyroid problems. And second, in maintenance, she eats
under 100g carb/day at a calorie level 10-12X her current weight. Not
exactly starvation rations.

I think the main thing she does is provide support for people. I
mean, 50 people would post messages asking her to look at their
Fitdays and asking advice, and she'd answer ALL of them. She'd answer
the same stupid questions again and again, I dunno where she gets the
patience. If you need a lot of handholding to stick to a plan,
Kimmer's would probably be a good plan for you. She's ALL about lotsa
emotional support.

It's not a WOE, but a weight-loss diet. She thinks it's a hell of a
lot more motivating to lose 3-5 lbs/week instead of 1-2. Basically,
that is her plan in a nutshell... lose weight fast. I don't know if
her website has a maintenance plan built-in, but from what I can see
over on the forum, if you did her diet, you'd pretty much need a
separate maintenance plan once you reached goal. I think you'd pretty
much need to know how to low-carb and maintain before you began her
plan else you'd just put it all back on.

She is big on making sure you actually measure everything, know what a
TB of salad dressing really looks like, and enter everything in
Fitday. She's also big on taking a multivitamin daily and getting
your veggies. She admonishes some folks that 1/2 cup of low-carb
veggies is only three bites, how can you not eat that? She thinks
planning is important, plasnning shopping, planning meals, planning
what to do if you have cravings, etc. The only "dessert" type foods
allowed are popsicles made from Crystal Light or diet soda or snow
cones made with DaVinci syrups. No low-carb cheesecake.

The anti-Kimmer contingent felt the calories were too low, starvation
mode would happen and that she was encouraging eating disorders.
There is a section of the forum devoted to fasting and Kimmer herself
felt that weekend fasting was a good thing, though it doesn't seem to
be part of her own plan. Some of the anti-Kimmer contingent think that
the before and after pics of her and her followers are faked, but they
kinda sound like sour grapes.

The people on the forum were split into two camps - either for her or
against her. She became a bone of contention there. Someone offered
to help her set up her own web site. Of course, this is a big
criticism against her too - that she was in it for the bucks all
along. But... she was posting for several hours a day for a couple
years with no idea she'd attract followers and wind up with a
business, so I find that kind of hard to swallow.

She seems genuinely sweet to me. Not that I like her much, she's
kinda sickeningly sweet. But a lot of the criticism seems kinda
bogus. One of the major criticisms is her plan isn't doctor-
supervised... as if you need an MD to give advice on diet. She says
straightup that her plan is to maximize weight loss, that it's not a
WOE, and that you need to do something else for maintenance. The
point is ketosis for appetite supression then low calories to maximize
weight loss - along with lotsa hand-holding.

Her first "plan" is what she calls Kimmer's Experiment. Basically, it
is a test to see if you are really in ketosis or if you still have
some stores of glycogen left. You eat nothing but lean meat and eggs
for 3-5 days and see if you get a big water weight loss. So the idea
is... if you get a big water woosh from doing the experiment, you were
eating too many carbs for really efficient weight loss.

Her experiment is pretty much similar to a protein-sparing modified
fast, which is a medical plan they put you on if you have to lose
weight fast like prior to surgery or something.
http://www.drblythe.com/weightloss/chptr6txt.htm describes a protein-
sparing modified fast. The difference with her experiment is she
doesn't allow cheese.

Used to be some folks around here would do something similar, but they
called it a "meat fast" - it was recommended for breaking stalls. If
your carbs have crept up and you have glycogen stores, it makes sense
that this would break stalls.

In Kimmer's Experiment, you can eat as much as you want because you're
looking for what she calls "deep ketosis" which supresses appetite.
She recommends the experiment as sort of a pre-induction induction.

Her ongoing plan, Kimkins, is basically Atkins induction with minimal
calories. Basically, you add some veggies to the experiment "phase".
Never eat unless you're hungry, and if in "deep ketosis", you're not
hungry much. From what I can see, it looks like people tend to eat
700-1000 calories or so on her plan.

She also recommends for fastest loss to fast every weekend. That does
not seem to be part of her main plan though; she recommends lots of
links to other people's fasting experience. Maybe this is why she's
controversial, cause she suggests to not eat at all a couple days a
week if you don't find it too unpleasant to do.

In short, while I'm not terribly fond of her plan or her, the anti-
Kimmer folk seem kinda irrationally combatative. The objections don't
make a heck of a lot of sense. If you don't want to do what she does,
then don't. No biggie.

Frankly, I can't really see either the worship of her fans or the
vehemence of her enemies. Like... whatever.

Some basic definitions for her plan:
lean meats -
beef (trim all visible fat before cooking): round, loin or chuck
cuts, 85% or better ground beef
pork (trim all visible fat before cooking): canadian bacon, center
loin chop, ham, leg steak, tenderloin cuts
poultry: unbreaded with skin removed
fish & seafood: unbreaded fresh or frozen, water-packed if canned

salad veggies (2 cups/day) - lettuces, cabbage, cucumbers, tomatoes,
celery, mushrooms, green onions, asparagus, garlic, radishes, green
beans, peppers

other low-carb veggies (limited to 1/2 cup serving) - zucchini,
cauliflower, tomatoes, green beans, broccoli, turnips and round
onions

Here's the guidelines for the Kimmer Experiment (K/E):
* Length of time is 3-5 days depending on how 'carbed up' you are
* As much lean protein as you desire (lean meat and eggs only)
* No "junk" meats: hot dogs, pepperoni, etc.
* Unlimited diet drinks, plain coffee & tea (plain as in no cream,
half/half)
* No alcohol, no cheese
* No cream, butter, mayo, cheese or other extra fats (for example,
instead of butter, trying cooking with PAM)
* Unlimited use of artificial sweeteners
* Purpose is to experience 'real' ketosis (weight loss, no
appetite)
* Useful as a springboard for other LC programs
* Basic condiments and spices OK (watch catsup & A1 sauce)
* If you lose 3 or more lbs. in 3 days, then you were over on
carbs on previous diet.

For the Kimkin's diet, you add to the K/E some veggies:
* Up to 20 total carbs (not 'net')
* Up to 3 cups salad type veggies or
* Up to 2 cups salad veggies + .5 cup 'cooked'
* 70-90 grams lean protein.
* No dairy, no nuts.
* No LC products, treats, junk or alcohol
* Just enough fat to make your menu work (don't overdo)
* It's important to measure veggies. One cup of lettuce is a
small, loose handful. Watch the salad dressing! Better yet, use a low
calorie one.
* Keep TOTAL carbs 20 or under-do not subtract fiber or Sugar
Alcohols
* No frankenfoods.

If you wanna try her plan and don't need a lot of handholding, I just
saved you $60.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:51:15 -0000, wrote:

The anti-Kimmer contingent felt the calories were too low, starvation
mode would happen and that she was encouraging eating disorders.
There is a section of the forum devoted to fasting and Kimmer herself
felt that weekend fasting was a good thing, though it doesn't seem to
be part of her own plan. Some of the anti-Kimmer contingent think that
the before and after pics of her and her followers are faked, but they
kinda sound like sour grapes.

Hi, Jackie --

Thanks for the great post.

I read her posts about fasting, and I just wanted to throw in here
that she fasts one weekend a month (while her son is away). As I
understand her goal here, the purpose of the fast wasn't so much to
contribute to weight loss -- she said what she does lose during the
weekend, she gains back immediately on Monday or Tuesday. It was a
"girlie weekend" -- writing letters, reading, doing her nails -- she
just didn't eat. She used the weekend to recharge spiritually and
physically -- something that sounds pretty darn good to me! LOL!

Anyway, I'm not a Kimmer advocate, or one of her detractors -- I had
just started reading that board after she left and went back through
the old posts to try to figure out what the big deal was -- and
apparently it was quite a big deal.

HTH


--
BlueBrooke
254/233/135

Hi Jackie,

I recently switched from low-cal to low-carb and have two days left of the
two-week induction. I haven't lost any more, so far anyway, then I would
have if I had stuck with low-cal. I was expecting a little whoosh from the
water weight or something, but nope, I'm only down two pounds after almost
two weeks.

I know, for sure, that I am right in there with the carb count. I'm not
missing any hidden carbs in my counting, etc. More than anything else, I
could really use a nice little ego boost -- this has been a real long haul
for me.

I'm going to stick out induction through Sunday and see where things stand.
If I magically drop some weight, great. If I don't, I'm going to look at
what my options are. My options appear to be Kimkins
Experiment/Stillman's/Meat Fast/Protein Sparing, etc.

Thanks for all the info!

wrote in message
ups.com...

Some of the anti-Kimmer contingent think that
the before and after pics of her and her followers are faked, but they
kinda sound like sour grapes.


Some say she refuses to give a face to face interview, and has only talked
to people on the phone. 'Could be a privacy issue. Or maybe she isn't who
she claims to be.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ki...on-kimmer.html

On Jul 26, 7:54 pm, "em" wrote:

I'm going to stick out induction through Sunday and see where things stand.
If I magically drop some weight, great. If I don't, I'm going to look at
what my options are. My options appear to be Kimkins
Experiment/Stillman's/Meat Fast/Protein Sparing, etc.

If you try it, let us know how it works for you.

It'd be nice to hear from someone who wasn't part of the Kimmer-cult
or Kimmer-haters. Someone a bit more neutral.

I have been reading some about this diet on several different websites
lately. It appears that some of the people at Lowcarbfriends have known
kimmer for a long time and that is where she started out.
It appears that some of her advice (the posts are still there) have been
things like cutting calories to 500 per day with her boot camp plan, doing
water fasts some for a week at a time. However, she does not drink water so
she does her fasts with Diet Coke. She also advises people to take a
laxative every day and not to eat fiber as it bulks you up. As I said these
posts are still hanging around in her thread from before the kimkins website
got started so if you really want to research it you can without joining. I
had looked into because I read the article is Women's World a few weeks ago.
THere is a lot of controversy because her pictures seem to change all of the
time including one that is clearly a picture of a well known celebrity. She
has refused to meet anyone in person and Jimmy Moore did a phone interview
with her this week you can go to his podcast and hear some of the things she
has to say.
Some of them are pretty evasive and some are just downright wrong. She has
no medical degree and some of the things she talks about are incorrect.
I think a lot of people want to know if they are paying for someone to tell
them how to diet that they would like to know that she really lost her
weight. She does profess to be very experienced in crash dieting.
I was put off by the wacky diet advice that she had given out before she
started kimkins site.


"em" wrote in message ...

Any truth/validity to Kimkins? Is it all that great? It seems to be a
highly restricted version of old-school Atkins/Stillman. There are some
pretty big claims made and quite a bit of press.

There's soooo much crap on the Internet, and this lady doesn't have any
qualifications other than "I lost weight". I would normally ignore this
kind of thing, but the name keeps coming up.

wrote:
:: On Jul 26, 7:54 pm, "em" wrote:
::
::: I'm going to stick out induction through Sunday and see where
::: things stand. If I magically drop some weight, great. If I don't,
::: I'm going to look at what my options are. My options appear to be
::: Kimkins Experiment/Stillman's/Meat Fast/Protein Sparing, etc.
::
:: If you try it, let us know how it works for you.
::
:: It'd be nice to hear from someone who wasn't part of the Kimmer-cult
:: or Kimmer-haters. Someone a bit more neutral.

2phat? Isn't there some drug injections, too?

On Jul 26, 9:59 pm, "Roger Zoul" wrote:

2phat? Isn't there some drug injections, too?

I think you're thinking of another plan.

I read... maybe 60 pages of an "Ask Kimmer" thread on
lowcarbfriends.com and the only drugs I ever saw her mention were
epsom salts and/or fiber pills for constipation and a side-
conversation about retin-A for wrinkle-reduction.

It could take *days* to read all her posts on lowcarbfriends.com, and
of course I'm not giving anybody $60 just to see their website, so my
review is likely as complete as it's gonna get. I posted it mostly
because I'm a neutral party and I thought that might be interesting
given that there seem to be so few reviews that don't either gush or
bash.

I also read some of the thread Tom G. posted. I had previously read
the first few pages of it, and frankly, at the beginning, it looked
mostly like a bunch of whiners. But I skipped some pages and jumped
ahead and it gets more intriguing as it goes on. A lot of the anti-
Kimmer contingent in that thread were previously pro-Kimmer people.
So apparently, she ****ed an awful lot of people off.

Anyone looking to spend a few days watching a soap opera unfold...
Kimmer is it!