Atkins diet has long-term dangers, researchers warn

In article ,
(Larisa) wrote:

Priscilla H Ballou wrote in message
...
In alt.support.diet.low-carb Larisa wrote:

It's true - more research is needed. I didn't find anything on
PubMed, one way or the other. Though the evidence is looking
reasonably convincing, from where I'm looking. I know someone who
died after a year of Atkins, from heart problems.

And I know someone who died after fathering two daughters. That can be
dangerous. Or maybe it was after retiring to Vermont? Pick another
state, maybe? He'd been reading mystery novels all his life, oh and
taking photographs. He'd had dogs for the last decade of his life. That
must have been it.

Did any of the above raise his cholesterol levels and induce ketosis?

Huh, the only thing I can think of that affects both of those is carbs
and both in different directions -- raises LDL, lowers HDL, raises
triglycerides so raises general cholesterol levels, but contrarily you
need to *reduce* carbs to enter ketosis. I stay in ketosis by eating
less than 100 grams of carb daily. Helps me control my blood glucose
level and, if not lose weight fast, then maintain the loss of weight
I've already had and prevent me from regaining it.

Or are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference
between ketosis and ketoacidosis?

Priscilla

In article ,
(Larisa) wrote:

Priscilla H Ballou wrote in message
...
In alt.support.diet.low-carb Larisa wrote:

It's true - more research is needed. I didn't find anything on
PubMed, one way or the other. Though the evidence is looking
reasonably convincing, from where I'm looking. I know someone who
died after a year of Atkins, from heart problems.

And I know someone who died after fathering two daughters. That can be
dangerous. Or maybe it was after retiring to Vermont? Pick another
state, maybe? He'd been reading mystery novels all his life, oh and
taking photographs. He'd had dogs for the last decade of his life. That
must have been it.

Did any of the above raise his cholesterol levels and induce ketosis?

Huh, the only thing I can think of that affects both of those is carbs
and both in different directions -- raises LDL, lowers HDL, raises
triglycerides so raises general cholesterol levels, but contrarily you
need to *reduce* carbs to enter ketosis. I stay in ketosis by eating
less than 100 grams of carb daily. Helps me control my blood glucose
level and, if not lose weight fast, then maintain the loss of weight
I've already had and prevent me from regaining it.

Or are you one of those people who doesn't understand the difference
between ketosis and ketoacidosis?

Priscilla

"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even
eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?


If you want my complete answer (meaning complete based on what I know
personally), it is a number of things and the cause is well known.

What is known is that going on a low fat diet does not help very much
in randomized controlled studies. Specifically, it does not reduce
mortality.

There are many cancers associated with high fat intake including breast and
prostate cancer.


A book that is great entertainment, if you are that kind of person, is
_The Cholesterol Myth_ by Uffe Ravnskov. Complete with references to
relevant studies. It is available on amazon, used.

It shows that a few commonly made statements like "saturated fat
causes heart disease", "saturated fat clogs arteries", "high
cholesterol causes heart disease" are based on wishful thinking and
not hard evidence.

"Hard" evidence is the clogged artereries themselves moron as what is the
actual clogg composed of?
You are a myth.


Lowering cholesterol by means of draconian diets combined with statins
also does not lower all cause mortality.

What is also known is that high blood sugars cause heart disease and
heart attacks, and that controlling blood sugar in people with poor
control helps prevent heart attacks. Other causes of heart attacks
include smoking.

i

"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even
eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?


If you want my complete answer (meaning complete based on what I know
personally), it is a number of things and the cause is well known.

What is known is that going on a low fat diet does not help very much
in randomized controlled studies. Specifically, it does not reduce
mortality.

There are many cancers associated with high fat intake including breast and
prostate cancer.


A book that is great entertainment, if you are that kind of person, is
_The Cholesterol Myth_ by Uffe Ravnskov. Complete with references to
relevant studies. It is available on amazon, used.

It shows that a few commonly made statements like "saturated fat
causes heart disease", "saturated fat clogs arteries", "high
cholesterol causes heart disease" are based on wishful thinking and
not hard evidence.

"Hard" evidence is the clogged artereries themselves moron as what is the
actual clogg composed of?
You are a myth.


Lowering cholesterol by means of draconian diets combined with statins
also does not lower all cause mortality.

What is also known is that high blood sugars cause heart disease and
heart attacks, and that controlling blood sugar in people with poor
control helps prevent heart attacks. Other causes of heart attacks
include smoking.

i

"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 13:25:16 GMT, Ignoramus26161
wrote:

In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even
eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?


If you want my complete answer (meaning complete based on what I know
personally), it is a number of things and the cause is well known.

What is known is that going on a low fat diet does not help very much
in randomized controlled studies. Specifically, it does not reduce
mortality.

A book that is great entertainment, if you are that kind of person, is
_The Cholesterol Myth_ by Uffe Ravnskov. Complete with references to
relevant studies. It is available on amazon, used.

It shows that a few commonly made statements like "saturated fat
causes heart disease", "saturated fat clogs arteries", "high
cholesterol causes heart disease" are based on wishful thinking and
not hard evidence.

Lowering cholesterol by means of draconian diets combined with statins
also does not lower all cause mortality.

What is also known is that high blood sugars cause heart disease and
heart attacks, and that controlling blood sugar in people with poor
control helps prevent heart attacks. Other causes of heart attacks
include smoking.

i
Thats all well and good and I have had many people tell me in this
thread that a high fat high cholesterol diet does not cause heart
disease but nobody can tell me what does.

You see, our bodies (liver) make about 4 times the cholesterol the
normal person would eat with his food. This production goes up and
down depending on what we eat, to maintain the cholesterol level.

Yes and that doesn't make it good for some of us just because our bodies
makes it. Our body makes a lot of things that are not good for us including
cancers and over active inflammatory diseases.


If you are interested, I can dig up some references and so on.

Check out this website for excerpts from the cholesterol myth book,
complete with references to actual studies mentioned.

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

A bunch of crap based on speculation that is never ending.


What exactly causes heart disease is not completely clear to science.

But YOU ARE SURE IT ISN"T CHOLESTEROL. What a fool.
They don't know what causes heart disease but you know it isn't cholesterol
based on an idiotic book. Go read some more comic books.


Some factors, such as smoking or diabetes, increase the risk of heart
attacks, but the mechanisms have not, to my knowledge, been completely
elucidated.

The S447X polymorphism at the LPL locus interacts with both cigarette
smoking and alcohol consumption in relation to HDL-cholesterol
concentration. In terms of raising HDL-cholesterol, Homozygotes for the S447
allele may benefit more from smoking cessation and less from increasing
alcohol intake. These observations may provide the first steps in our
ability to personalize dietary therapy to maximize the risk reduction
achievable.

PMID: 15294478 [PubMed - in process]

The metabolic syndrome (MS) poses an increased risk for the development of
diabetes mellitus and cardiovascular events. The syndrome typically includes
dyslipidemia, characterized by elevated plasma triglycerides and low
high-density lipoprotein cholesterol concentrations. Retrospective analyses
of coronary artery disease outcomes trials in patient subpopulations with
diabetes or the MS indicate that lipid-altering therapies provide benefits
for patients with the MS at least as much as observed in patients without
diabetes or the MS. Analyses of the effects of lipid-altering therapy on the
lipid profile in patients with the MS also indicate that beneficial lipid
changes are similar in patients with the MS compared with those in patients
without the MS. The benefits of statin treatment in patients with the MS
have become increasingly clear, and it is likely that further improvements
in treatment may be achieved with newer statins or a combination of
lipid-altering drugs. Prospective data from clinical trials examining the
preventive effects of lipid-altering therapy in MS patients are needed to
better define potential benefits and optimal treatment in this population.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 15178513 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


If you can correct me and know something I do not know, I
would love to see you clarify this issue as I myself took great
interest in it.

i

Try reading the new book "The myth about the myth of cholesterol"

"Ignoramus26161" wrote in message
...
In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 13:25:16 GMT, Ignoramus26161
wrote:

In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even
eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?


If you want my complete answer (meaning complete based on what I know
personally), it is a number of things and the cause is well known.

What is known is that going on a low fat diet does not help very much
in randomized controlled studies. Specifically, it does not reduce
mortality.

A book that is great entertainment, if you are that kind of person, is
_The Cholesterol Myth_ by Uffe Ravnskov. Complete with references to
relevant studies. It is available on amazon, used.

It shows that a few commonly made statements like "saturated fat
causes heart disease", "saturated fat clogs arteries", "high
cholesterol causes heart disease" are based on wishful thinking and
not hard evidence.

Lowering cholesterol by means of draconian diets combined with statins
also does not lower all cause mortality.

What is also known is that high blood sugars cause heart disease and
heart attacks, and that controlling blood sugar in people with poor
control helps prevent heart attacks. Other causes of heart attacks
include smoking.

i
Thats all well and good and I have had many people tell me in this
thread that a high fat high cholesterol diet does not cause heart
disease but nobody can tell me what does.

You see, our bodies (liver) make about 4 times the cholesterol the
normal person would eat with his food. This production goes up and
down depending on what we eat, to maintain the cholesterol level.

Yes and that doesn't make it good for some of us just because our bodies
makes it. Our body makes a lot of things that are not good for us including
cancers and over active inflammatory diseases.


If you are interested, I can dig up some references and so on.

Check out this website for excerpts from the cholesterol myth book,
complete with references to actual studies mentioned.

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

A bunch of crap based on speculation that is never ending.


What exactly causes heart disease is not completely clear to science.

But YOU ARE SURE IT ISN"T CHOLESTEROL. What a fool.
They don't know what causes heart disease but you know it isn't cholesterol
based on an idiotic book. Go read some more comic books.


Some factors, such as smoking or diabetes, increase the risk of heart
attacks, but the mechanisms have not, to my knowledge, been completely
elucidated.

The S447X polymorphism at the LPL locus interacts with both cigarette
smoking and alcohol consumption in relation to HDL-cholesterol
concentration. In terms of raising HDL-cholesterol, Homozygotes for the S447
allele may benefit more from smoking cessation and less from increasing
alcohol intake. These observations may provide the first steps in our
ability to personalize dietary therapy to maximize the risk reduction
achievable.

PMID: 15294478 [PubMed - in process]

The metabolic syndrome (MS) poses an increased risk for the development of
diabetes mellitus and cardiovascular events. The syndrome typically includes
dyslipidemia, characterized by elevated plasma triglycerides and low
high-density lipoprotein cholesterol concentrations. Retrospective analyses
of coronary artery disease outcomes trials in patient subpopulations with
diabetes or the MS indicate that lipid-altering therapies provide benefits
for patients with the MS at least as much as observed in patients without
diabetes or the MS. Analyses of the effects of lipid-altering therapy on the
lipid profile in patients with the MS also indicate that beneficial lipid
changes are similar in patients with the MS compared with those in patients
without the MS. The benefits of statin treatment in patients with the MS
have become increasingly clear, and it is likely that further improvements
in treatment may be achieved with newer statins or a combination of
lipid-altering drugs. Prospective data from clinical trials examining the
preventive effects of lipid-altering therapy in MS patients are needed to
better define potential benefits and optimal treatment in this population.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 15178513 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


If you can correct me and know something I do not know, I
would love to see you clarify this issue as I myself took great
interest in it.

i

Try reading the new book "The myth about the myth of cholesterol"

"Ignoramus26161"

You have earned your name sake.

You site a dietary study involving people with MI who have proven heart
disease. These are diseased individuals who need medical intervention. It is
there genetic makeup along with lack of exercise along with nutritional
problems. You can not simply rely on nutritional changes to help them out.
It does not prove anything as far as the cause of the heart disease.



wrote in message
...
In article , MikeL wrote:
On 10 Sep 2004 01:12:00 GMT, Ignoramus26161
wrote:

In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 13:25:16 GMT, Ignoramus26161
wrote:

In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even
eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?


If you want my complete answer (meaning complete based on what I know
personally), it is a number of things and the cause is well known.

What is known is that going on a low fat diet does not help very much
in randomized controlled studies. Specifically, it does not reduce
mortality.

A book that is great entertainment, if you are that kind of person, is
_The Cholesterol Myth_ by Uffe Ravnskov. Complete with references to
relevant studies. It is available on amazon, used.

It shows that a few commonly made statements like "saturated fat
causes heart disease", "saturated fat clogs arteries", "high
cholesterol causes heart disease" are based on wishful thinking and
not hard evidence.

Lowering cholesterol by means of draconian diets combined with statins
also does not lower all cause mortality.

What is also known is that high blood sugars cause heart disease and
heart attacks, and that controlling blood sugar in people with poor
control helps prevent heart attacks. Other causes of heart attacks
include smoking.

i
Thats all well and good and I have had many people tell me in this
thread that a high fat high cholesterol diet does not cause heart
disease but nobody can tell me what does.

You see, our bodies (liver) make about 4 times the cholesterol the
normal person would eat with his food. This production goes up and
down depending on what we eat, to maintain the cholesterol level.

If you are interested, I can dig up some references and so on.

Check out this website for excerpts from the cholesterol myth book,
complete with references to actual studies mentioned.

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

What exactly causes heart disease is not completely clear to science.

Some factors, such as smoking or diabetes, increase the risk of heart
attacks, but the mechanisms have not, to my knowledge, been completely
elucidated. If you can correct me and know something I do not know, I
would love to see you clarify this issue as I myself took great
interest in it.

i
Well, as far as I am concerned saturated fat and cholesterol causes
heart disease.

What does this mean? That you conducted your own studies?

It always amazes me that people will pour bacon grease into a cup
and let it harden because they don't want to clog their pipes yet
they don't see the correlation with the clogging of their arteries.

You are, unfortunately, misinformed, as was I until quite recently.

``Eight such trials using diet as the only treatment has been
performed (76), but neither the number of fatal or non-fatal heart
attacks were reduced significantly in any of these trials, not even if
the results were added in a meta-analysis.''


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

``A randomised controlled trial with a factorial design was done to
examine the effects of dietary intervention in the secondary
prevention of myocardial infarction (MI). 2033 men who had recovered
from MI were allocated to receive or not to receive advice on each of
three dietary factors: a reduction in fat intake and an increase in
the ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fat, an increase in fatty
fish intake, and an increase in cereal fibre intake. The advice on fat
was not associated with any difference in mortality, perhaps because
it produced only a small reduction (3-4%) in serum cholesterol. The
subjects advised to eat fatty fish had a 29% reduction in 2 year
all-cause mortality compared with those not so advised. This effect,
which was significant, was not altered by adjusting for ten potential
confounding factors. Subjects given fibre advice had a slightly higher
mortality than other subjects (not significant). The 2 year incidence
of reinfarction plus death from ischaemic heart disease was not
significantly affected by any of the dietary regimens. A modest intake
of fatty fish (two or three portions per week) may reduce mortality in
men who have recovered from MI.''

"Ignoramus26161"

You have earned your name sake.

You site a dietary study involving people with MI who have proven heart
disease. These are diseased individuals who need medical intervention. It is
there genetic makeup along with lack of exercise along with nutritional
problems. You can not simply rely on nutritional changes to help them out.
It does not prove anything as far as the cause of the heart disease.



wrote in message
...
In article , MikeL wrote:
On 10 Sep 2004 01:12:00 GMT, Ignoramus26161
wrote:

In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 13:25:16 GMT, Ignoramus26161
wrote:

In article , MikeL wrote:
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even
eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?


If you want my complete answer (meaning complete based on what I know
personally), it is a number of things and the cause is well known.

What is known is that going on a low fat diet does not help very much
in randomized controlled studies. Specifically, it does not reduce
mortality.

A book that is great entertainment, if you are that kind of person, is
_The Cholesterol Myth_ by Uffe Ravnskov. Complete with references to
relevant studies. It is available on amazon, used.

It shows that a few commonly made statements like "saturated fat
causes heart disease", "saturated fat clogs arteries", "high
cholesterol causes heart disease" are based on wishful thinking and
not hard evidence.

Lowering cholesterol by means of draconian diets combined with statins
also does not lower all cause mortality.

What is also known is that high blood sugars cause heart disease and
heart attacks, and that controlling blood sugar in people with poor
control helps prevent heart attacks. Other causes of heart attacks
include smoking.

i
Thats all well and good and I have had many people tell me in this
thread that a high fat high cholesterol diet does not cause heart
disease but nobody can tell me what does.

You see, our bodies (liver) make about 4 times the cholesterol the
normal person would eat with his food. This production goes up and
down depending on what we eat, to maintain the cholesterol level.

If you are interested, I can dig up some references and so on.

Check out this website for excerpts from the cholesterol myth book,
complete with references to actual studies mentioned.

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

What exactly causes heart disease is not completely clear to science.

Some factors, such as smoking or diabetes, increase the risk of heart
attacks, but the mechanisms have not, to my knowledge, been completely
elucidated. If you can correct me and know something I do not know, I
would love to see you clarify this issue as I myself took great
interest in it.

i
Well, as far as I am concerned saturated fat and cholesterol causes
heart disease.

What does this mean? That you conducted your own studies?

It always amazes me that people will pour bacon grease into a cup
and let it harden because they don't want to clog their pipes yet
they don't see the correlation with the clogging of their arteries.

You are, unfortunately, misinformed, as was I until quite recently.

``Eight such trials using diet as the only treatment has been
performed (76), but neither the number of fatal or non-fatal heart
attacks were reduced significantly in any of these trials, not even if
the results were added in a meta-analysis.''


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

``A randomised controlled trial with a factorial design was done to
examine the effects of dietary intervention in the secondary
prevention of myocardial infarction (MI). 2033 men who had recovered
from MI were allocated to receive or not to receive advice on each of
three dietary factors: a reduction in fat intake and an increase in
the ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fat, an increase in fatty
fish intake, and an increase in cereal fibre intake. The advice on fat
was not associated with any difference in mortality, perhaps because
it produced only a small reduction (3-4%) in serum cholesterol. The
subjects advised to eat fatty fish had a 29% reduction in 2 year
all-cause mortality compared with those not so advised. This effect,
which was significant, was not altered by adjusting for ten potential
confounding factors. Subjects given fibre advice had a slightly higher
mortality than other subjects (not significant). The 2 year incidence
of reinfarction plus death from ischaemic heart disease was not
significantly affected by any of the dietary regimens. A modest intake
of fatty fish (two or three portions per week) may reduce mortality in
men who have recovered from MI.''

On 9 Sep 2004 20:35:29 -0700, (Tony Lew) wrote:

MikeL wrote in message . ..
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?

Polyunsaturated fats.

uh no

On 9 Sep 2004 20:35:29 -0700, (Tony Lew) wrote:

MikeL wrote in message . ..
On 9 Sep 2004 00:41:33 -0700, (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

MikeL wrote in message

Try dense small-particle LDL, which can be minimized and even eliminated
by eating a low-carb diet like that proposed by the Atkins diet.

Don't you know anything?

Priscilla

Ok which is raised by saturated fats found in lard, meat, poultry,
butter, cheese etc.

Ummm wrong. So wonderful when people make such ignorant baseless
statements. Seems you need a reality check. Try getting some facts
before you make yourself look stupid. Not only do those fats NOT
raise spLDL but in the case of milk fat it REDUCES spLDL.

My original question still stands, what food is clogging people's
arteries?

Polyunsaturated fats.

uh no