Diet Linked To Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma

"usual suspect" wrote in message ...
..
You missed the point again. Where does it say that these things are
absorbed through the wall of the large intestine?

'AUTOINTOXICATION: any factor that lengthens the transit
time of food in the large bowel increases gas, putrefaction and
constipation. '
http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~sreinis/digest15.html


I have little doubt that YOU are full of

'troll - An outrageous message posted to a newsgroup
or mailing list or message board to bait people to answer.
Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a
discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos
by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it.
Also, the person who posts such messages.'
www.walthowe.com/glossary/t.html

restore

Asia Pacific J Clin Nutr (1996) Vol5, No 1: 2-9
Intestinal flora and human health
Tomotari Mitsuoka, DVM, PhD
Professor Emeritus, The University of Tokyo, Japan
...
Other intestinal bacteria produce substances that are harmful to
the host, such as putrefactive products, toxins and carcinogenic
substances. When harmful bacteria dominate in the intestines,
essential nutrients are not produced and the level of harmful
substances rises. These substances may not have an immediate
detrimental effect on the host but they are thought to be
contributing factors to ageing, promoting cancer, liver and kidney
disease, hypertension and arteriosclerosis, and reduced immunity.
Little is known regarding which intestinal bacteria are responsible
for these effects. A number of factors can change the balance of
intestinal flora in favour of harmful bacteria. These include
peristalsis disorders, surgical operations of stomach or small
intestine, liver or kidney diseases, pernicious anaemia, cancer,
radiation or antibiotic therapies, immune disorders, emotional
stress, poor diet and ageing.
.....
The intestinal flora may play an important role in the causation
of cancer and ageing

Dietary factors are considered important environmental risk
determinants for colorectal cancer development. From
epidemiological observations, a high fat intake is associated
positively and a high fibre intake negatively with colorectal cancer.
This is thought to occur by the following mechanisms. From food
components in the gastrointestinal tract, organisms produce
various carcinogens from the dietary components and endogenous
substances, detoxify carcinogens, or enhance the host's immune
function, which results in changes in the incidence of cancers. The
ingestion of large amounts of animal fat enhances bile secretion,
causing an increase in bile acid and cholesterol in the intestine.
These increased substances are converted by intestinal bacteria
into secondary bile acids, their derivatives, aromatic polycyclic
hydrocarbons, oestrogen and epoxides derivatives that are
related to carcinogenesis. Various tryptophan metabolites (indole,
skatole, 3-hydroxykinurenine, 3-hydroxyanthranilic acid, etc.)
phenols, amines, and nitroso compounds produced by intestinal
bacteria from protein also participate in carcinogenesis (Fig. 5).
...
Figure 5. Relationships among diet, intestinal bacteria and cancer.

Recent epidemiological studies have revealed that insufficient intake
of dietary fibre is associated with high incidences of Western
diseases such as colorectal cancer, obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
and hypertension. Ingested dietary fibre causes increased volume
of faeces, dilution of noxious substances, and shortening of the
transit time of intestinal contents, resulting in early excretion of
noxious substances such as carcinogens produced by intestinal
bacteria. '
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN.../51p02.htm#top

"Patricia Heil" wrote in message ...
I agree. Why doesn't she just take some massive
dose of antibiotics and kill off all those nasty
intestinal bacteria?

[Hint; because it will make her sick as hell.]

Massive doses of antibiotics can change the balance
of intestinal flora in favour of harmful bacteria..

Asia Pacific J Clin Nutr (1996) Vol5, No 1: 2-9
Intestinal flora and human health
Tomotari Mitsuoka, DVM, PhD
Professor Emeritus, The University of Tokyo, Japan
...
Other intestinal bacteria produce substances that are harmful to
the host, such as putrefactive products, toxins and carcinogenic
substances. When harmful bacteria dominate in the intestines,
essential nutrients are not produced and the level of harmful
substances rises. These substances may not have an immediate
detrimental effect on the host but they are thought to be
contributing factors to ageing, promoting cancer, liver and kidney
disease, hypertension and arteriosclerosis, and reduced immunity.
Little is known regarding which intestinal bacteria are responsible
for these effects. *A number of factors can change the balance of
intestinal flora in favour of harmful bacteria.* These include
peristalsis disorders, surgical operations of stomach or small
intestine, liver or kidney diseases, pernicious anaemia, cancer,
radiation or *antibiotic therapies*, immune disorders, emotional
stress, poor diet and ageing.
.....
The intestinal flora may play an important role in the causation
of cancer and ageing

Dietary factors are considered important environmental risk
determinants for colorectal cancer development. From
epidemiological observations, a high fat intake is associated
positively and a high fibre intake negatively with colorectal cancer.
This is thought to occur by the following mechanisms. From food
components in the gastrointestinal tract, organisms produce
various carcinogens from the dietary components and endogenous
substances, detoxify carcinogens, or enhance the host's immune
function, which results in changes in the incidence of cancers. The
ingestion of large amounts of animal fat enhances bile secretion,
causing an increase in bile acid and cholesterol in the intestine.
These increased substances are converted by intestinal bacteria
into secondary bile acids, their derivatives, aromatic polycyclic
hydrocarbons, oestrogen and epoxides derivatives that are
related to carcinogenesis. Various tryptophan metabolites (indole,
skatole, 3-hydroxykinurenine, 3-hydroxyanthranilic acid, etc.)
phenols, amines, and nitroso compounds produced by intestinal
bacteria from protein also participate in carcinogenesis (Fig. 5).
...
Figure 5. Relationships among diet, intestinal bacteria and cancer.

Recent epidemiological studies have revealed that insufficient intake
of dietary fibre is associated with high incidences of Western
diseases such as colorectal cancer, obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
and hypertension. Ingested dietary fibre causes increased volume
of faeces, dilution of noxious substances, and shortening of the
transit time of intestinal contents, resulting in early excretion of
noxious substances such as carcinogens produced by intestinal
bacteria. '
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN.../51p02.htm#top

"usual suspect" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote:
You missed the point again. Where does it say that these things are
absorbed through the wall of the large intestine?

'AUTOINTOXICATION: any factor that lengthens the transit
time of food in the large bowel increases gas, putrefaction and
constipation. '
http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~sreinis/digest15.html


I have little doubt that YOU are full of

restore

full of ****e

... suspect.

restore

Asia Pacific J Clin Nutr (1996) Vol5, No 1: 2-9
Intestinal flora and human health
Tomotari Mitsuoka, DVM, PhD
Professor Emeritus, The University of Tokyo, Japan
...
Other intestinal bacteria produce substances that are harmful to
the host, such as putrefactive products, toxins and carcinogenic
substances. When harmful bacteria dominate in the intestines,
essential nutrients are not produced and the level of harmful
substances rises. These substances may not have an immediate
detrimental effect on the host but they are thought to be
contributing factors to ageing, promoting cancer, liver and kidney
disease, hypertension and arteriosclerosis, and reduced immunity.
Little is known regarding which intestinal bacteria are responsible
for these effects. A number of factors can change the balance of
intestinal flora in favour of harmful bacteria. These include
peristalsis disorders, surgical operations of stomach or small
intestine, liver or kidney diseases, pernicious anaemia, cancer,
radiation or antibiotic therapies, immune disorders, emotional
stress, poor diet and ageing.
.....
The intestinal flora may play an important role in the causation
of cancer and ageing

Dietary factors are considered important environmental risk
determinants for colorectal cancer development. From
epidemiological observations, a high fat intake is associated
positively and a high fibre intake negatively with colorectal cancer.
This is thought to occur by the following mechanisms. From food
components in the gastrointestinal tract, organisms produce
various carcinogens from the dietary components and endogenous
substances, detoxify carcinogens, or enhance the host's immune
function, which results in changes in the incidence of cancers. The
ingestion of large amounts of animal fat enhances bile secretion,
causing an increase in bile acid and cholesterol in the intestine.
These increased substances are converted by intestinal bacteria
into secondary bile acids, their derivatives, aromatic polycyclic
hydrocarbons, oestrogen and epoxides derivatives that are
related to carcinogenesis. Various tryptophan metabolites (indole,
skatole, 3-hydroxykinurenine, 3-hydroxyanthranilic acid, etc.)
phenols, amines, and nitroso compounds produced by intestinal
bacteria from protein also participate in carcinogenesis (Fig. 5).
...
Figure 5. Relationships among diet, intestinal bacteria and cancer.

Recent epidemiological studies have revealed that insufficient intake
of dietary fibre is associated with high incidences of Western
diseases such as colorectal cancer, obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
and hypertension. Ingested dietary fibre causes increased volume
of faeces, dilution of noxious substances, and shortening of the
transit time of intestinal contents, resulting in early excretion of
noxious substances such as carcinogens produced by intestinal
bacteria. '
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN.../51p02.htm#top

snip quackpotery

"usual suspect" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote:
...
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN.../51p02.htm#top

By Tomotari Mitsuoka, DVM, PhD?!

Why are you now using veterinarians for your pseudoscience, Chelsea?

Why do you insist on making yourself look even more foolish than
you already are?

http://www.riken.go.jp/engn/r-world/...news/2004/feb/.

"Moosh" wrote in message ...
..
absorbed through the wall of the large intestine?

'The intestinal epithelium and the normal intestinal microflora represent
a barrier to the movement of pathogenic bacteria, antigens and other
noxious substances from the gut lumen. Under normal circumstances
this barrier is intact and provides normal intestinal function. When either
the epithelial cells or the normal microflora are disturbed altered
permeability facilitates the invasion of pathogens, foreign antigens and
other harmful substances. '
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN...Num1/51p53.htm

See;
http://www.riken.go.jp/engn/r-world/...news/2004/feb/
Figure 3: Relationship between intestinal microbiota and disease

..

pearl wrote:
...
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN.../51p02.htm#top

By Tomotari Mitsuoka, DVM, PhD?!

Why are you now using veterinarians for your pseudoscience, Chelsea?

Answer my question, Chelsea.

snip dodge

"usual suspect" wrote in message ...
pearl wrote:
...
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN.../51p02.htm#top

By Tomotari Mitsuoka, DVM, PhD?!

Why are you now using veterinarians for your pseudoscience, Chelsea?

Answer my question, Chelsea.

snip dodge

A snip dodge, eh.

Dr. Tomotari Mitsuoka is an authority on intestinal microbiota.

'In the mid-19th century, Theodor von Escherich of the University
of Vienna found bacteria in feces - the species that would eventually
be called Escherichia coli. However, until the mid-20th century,
few fecal bacteria other than E. coli had been successfully cultured,
leading most to believe that the majority of bacteria existing in the
intestines were dead. The dispeller of this long-held belief was
Dr. Tomotari Mitsuoka, a RIKEN scientist who, in the 1950s,
began to reveal that there are many living bacteria in the intestinal
tract through the use of anaerobic culturing. It turned out that most
intestinal bacteria are anaerobic bacteria that cannot survive in the
presence of oxygen. "I spent my younger days with intestinal
microbiota," says Dr. Benno, who joined Dr. Mitsuoka's
laboratory at RIKEN approximately 30 years ago. "Different
bacterial species require different culturing conditions. ..
Dr. Mitsuoka received the Japan Academy Award in 1988 for
his work on systematic research on intestinal microbiota utilizing
original culturing techniques. "Everyone thought that we knew
all there was to know about intestinal microbiota, and that
Dr. Mitsuoka's work was complete." ....'

http://www.riken.go.jp/engn/r-world/...news/2004/feb/

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:04:23 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

From; 'The mineral content of organic food - Rutgers University USA

Trace Elements.
Parts per million
Dry matter

Vegetable: Cobalt
Snap Beans
Organic 0.26
Non-organic 0
Cabbage
Organic 0.15
Non-organic 0
Lettuce
Organic 0.19
Non-organic 0
Tomatoes
Organic 0.63
Non-organic 0
Spinach
Organic 0.25
Non-organic 0.2

http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk/wh...whyorganic.htm

I've already commented on this pathetically misleading quote.

On browsing around, I came across this far more accurate assessment of
cobalt status in our foods.

From:

http://www.healthyeatingclub.com/inf...ta/data5p.html

Elements -

40: COBALT

Cobalt is essential for humans because it is a part of vitamin B-12.
This form of cobalt is obtainable from micro-organisms or from animal
sources. Vegetable sources of cobalt are more important to animals
that are ruminants (sheep and cattle). Cobalt deficiency in humans is
like vitamin B-12 deficiency, with anaemia and nervous system
problems. As little as 0.1 microgram cobalt as vitamin B-12 per day is
needed by adults. Total cobalt intake may be in a range from 10 to
1800 micrograms per day. Cobalt in a different chemical form (i.e. not
as part of vitamin B-12) will stimulate blood formation, but this is
probably not a normal action.

When cobalt was used to stabilize beer froth, it was found to have a
toxic effect on the heart. Its toxicity, at cobalt intakes of about
8000 micrograms per day, probably arose from its interaction with
alcohol itself, and other nutritional problems created by alcohol.

COBALT INTAKE

A safe and adequate range of intake has not been specified.

FIGURE 57: COBALT CONTENT OF SOME FOODS


COBALT CONTENT
(micrograms per 100 grams of food)

Green leafy vegetables 20-60
Organ meats 15-25
Muscle meats 7-12

Some cobalt is present as vitamin B-12 in foods of animal origin."

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:55:32 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

"Moosh" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:18:20 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

"Moosh" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:07:22 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

So we have an increased risk observed for higher consumption
of white bread, but a significantly reduced risk observed for
dark bread - both high in carbohydrates. So it can't be the
carbohydrate in bread that increases risk, but the form in
which it's consumed- wholegrain (inc. fibre and nutrients) or
refined (stripped of fibre and valuable nutrients). 'a significantly
reduced risk was observed for a greater intake of dietary fiber'
(helps peristalsis), while white bread contributes to constipation,
so,- that improperly digested putrefying meat sits in the colon
moving through ever-so-slowly, (as opposed to moving through
at a steadyish rate), as toxins are absorbed into the bloodstream.

White breads are not all the same. Some are high fibre and all in
Australia have good levels of micronutrients.

And what toxins are absorbed from the large intestine?

Toxins produced from improperly digested animal protein.

'Carnivores have a much higher concentration of hydrochloric acid
in the stomach for break down of proteins and to kill any dangerous
bacteria. Their stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with
food in the stomach, while humans have a pH 4 to 5.
http://www.b-naturals.com/win00.htm

''According to Harper's Biochemistry, the putrefaction bacteria
in the large intestine convert amino acids from undigested protein
into toxic amines or ptomaines, such as cadaverine (from lysine),
agmatine (from arginine), tyramine (from tyroseine), putrescine
(from orithine) and histamine (from histidine). And these amines
are "powerful vasopressor substances". Tryptophan undergoes a
series of reactions to form indole and methylindole (skatole), which
produces the distinctive putrefying faecal smell of a high protein diet.
The sulphur-containing amino acids (cysteine and methionine) are
transformed into mercaptans such as ethyl and methyl mercaptan
as well as hydrogen sulphide (H2S). All these compounds are very
poisonous and unpleasant. Phosphatidylcholine, only found in meats,
breaks down into choline and the related toxic amines such as neurine. ..

.. plant protein is less digestible .. because it is found in the tough
cellulose walls of plant cells which pass through the gut undigested
if not sufficiently masticated. These proteins are not available as
soil for putrefying bacteria in the bowel. Animal protein wastes are
highly bioavailable to putrefying bowel bacteria since they have no
cellulose cell wall.'
http://web.archive.org/web/200304180...mc/protein.htm

'Because waste products such as hydrogen sulfide, ammonia,
histamines, phenols and indoles are toxic, the body's defense
mechanisms try to eliminate them by releasing neutrophils (a
type of leukocyte, or white corpuscle). These neutrophils
produce active oxygen, oddball oxygen molecules that are
capable of scavenging disintegrating tissues by gathering
electrons from the molecules of toxic cells.

Problems arise, however, when too many of these active oxygen
molecules, or free radicals, are produced in the body. They are
extremely reactive and can also attach themselves to normal, healthy
cells and damage them genetically. These active oxygen radicals steal
electrons from normal, healthy biological molecules. This electron
theft by active oxygen oxidizes tissue and can cause disease.

OXODIZED TISSUE LEADS TO:

Liver - Hepatitis, cirrhosis, cancer

Pancreas - Pancreatitis, diabetes, cancer

Kidney - Nephritis, nephrosis, cancer

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/alkalinewater.html



You missed the point again. Where does it say that these things are
absorbed through the wall of the large intestine?

'AUTOINTOXICATION: any factor that lengthens the transit
time of food in the large bowel increases gas, putrefaction and
constipation. '
http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~sreinis/digest15.html

Sorry, try again, this says no such thing.

' The abnormal toxins which cause disease when they overload
the liver and kidneys and pollute the blood and milieu interieur a

What are you talking about?

Last , and probably the most harmful--various acids and toxins
produced in the colon by bacterial putrification of improperly
digested remnants of cooked, high-fat, high-protein food which
enter the bloodstream in the water reabsorbed from the colon
back into the circulation.
..
The most poisonous form of toxemia, however, originates
in the colon (large bowel) because of constipation, which on
the Western diet is unavoidable due to a lack of dietary fiber.
It must be understood that a person can be "as regular as
clockwork" and still be constipated. On a natural diet of
mainly fruit and vegetables (raw), low in protein and fat, the
indigestible cellulose remnants are quickly processed for
elimination on reaching the colon by the normal aerobic
bacteria there and are then readily defecated, having made the
entire transit of the digestive tract in about twenty-four hours.
However, when the undigested remnants of a high-fat,
high-protein diet arrive in the colon they are difficult to break
down further, and the normal aerobic bacteria must change in
form to an anaerobic form which putrefies the remnants and
produces different acids and toxic chemicals. Because meat,
chicken, fish, dairy products and refined carbohydrates are
completely lacking in fiber, the process is slow moving. Thus
the "transit time" of the Western diet is about seventy-two
hours instead of twenty-four, giving the potent toxins ample
time to be absorbed into the body by way of the bile
circulation and to set up the irritation which leads to
appendicitis and bowel cancer. ..'
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201...020122ch3.html

"Soil And Health Library
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health begins in the soil; Healing begins with hygiene; Liberty begins
with freedom.

This is a free public library offering full-text books about holistic
agriculture, holistic health, self-sufficient homestead living, and
personal development. Most of the titles in this library are out of
print. Some of these books can be quite hard to find; many of them are
old enough to be public domain materials. The library also offers a
collection about why globalised society is resistant to changing its
food and health systems."

Can you find nothing but whacko nutter sites?


Nitrogen waste products
... Certain compounds that are produced in the digestion of the food
are toxic and cause harm in different tissues. When there is intestinal
dysbiosis these compounds are found in high quantities. Probiotics
will reduce the dysbiosis and thereby the accumulation of toxic waste
products. When protein is digested through the action of these
harmful intestinal micro-organisms, directly or indirectly, a variety of
nitrogen waste products will be produced, such as ammonia, urea,
indols, phenols, nitrites and nitrosamines. These toxic items could in
a later sequence influence the outcome of different unhealthy conditions,
such as chronic diseases where the immune system is seriously involved.
They also promote the development of polyarthritis and skin diseases.
Normally the liver is able to detoxify all these toxins. However, if the
load is heavy and prolonged, the liver will not be able to cleanse
completely.

Detoxification and retoxification
Certain beneficial bacteria are able to neutralise toxic metabolites.
This is called detoxification. The opposite is retoxification. It is
conversion of non-harmful products to harmful ones. Probiotics
reduce the pH in the intestine causing the activity of the coliform
putrefactive bacteria, such as bacteroides and clostridia to be
inhibited. The production of their metabolites will then be reduced.
Additionally the absorption of these is impaired, resulting in them
being excreted in the faeces.

Conjugation and deconjugation
One of the methods the liver uses is to neutralise toxins by
conjugating them with glucuronic acid, thereby creating glucuronides.
This process is called conjugation. When these are excreted from
the gallbladder out into the intestine, it is given the capability to get
rid of toxins. When there is a dysbiotic condition in the intestine,
certain bacterias improve their ability to digest these conjugates.
This is called deconjugation. The toxins are reabsorbed into the
blood. The result is retoxification.'
http://www.positivehealth.com/permit...th/probiot.htm

More altie gibbereish. Please get some proper cites for your whacko
ideas or perhaps you shouldn't post them here.

Asia Pacific J Clin Nutr (1996) Vol5, No 1: 2-9
Intestinal flora and human health
Tomotari Mitsuoka, DVM, PhD
Professor Emeritus, The University of Tokyo, Japan
..
Other intestinal bacteria produce substances that are harmful to
the host, such as putrefactive products, toxins and carcinogenic
substances. When harmful bacteria dominate in the intestines,
essential nutrients are not produced and the level of harmful
substances rises. These substances may not have an immediate
detrimental effect on the host but they are thought to be
contributing factors to ageing, promoting cancer, liver and kidney
disease, hypertension and arteriosclerosis, and reduced immunity.
Little is known regarding which intestinal bacteria are responsible
for these effects. A number of factors can change the balance of
intestinal flora in favour of harmful bacteria. These include
peristalsis disorders, surgical operations of stomach or small
intestine, liver or kidney diseases, pernicious anaemia, cancer,
radiation or antibiotic therapies, immune disorders, emotional
stress, poor diet and ageing.
....
The intestinal flora may play an important role in the causation
of cancer and ageing

Dietary factors are considered important environmental risk
determinants for colorectal cancer development. From
epidemiological observations, a high fat intake is associated
positively and a high fibre intake negatively with colorectal cancer.
This is thought to occur by the following mechanisms. From food
components in the gastrointestinal tract, organisms produce
various carcinogens from the dietary components and endogenous
substances, detoxify carcinogens, or enhance the host's immune
function, which results in changes in the incidence of cancers. The
ingestion of large amounts of animal fat enhances bile secretion,
causing an increase in bile acid and cholesterol in the intestine.
These increased substances are converted by intestinal bacteria
into secondary bile acids, their derivatives, aromatic polycyclic
hydrocarbons, oestrogen and epoxides derivatives that are
related to carcinogenesis. Various tryptophan metabolites (indole,
skatole, 3-hydroxykinurenine, 3-hydroxyanthranilic acid, etc.)
phenols, amines, and nitroso compounds produced by intestinal
bacteria from protein also participate in carcinogenesis (Fig. 5).
..
Figure 5. Relationships among diet, intestinal bacteria and cancer.

Recent epidemiological studies have revealed that insufficient intake
of dietary fibre is associated with high incidences of Western
diseases such as colorectal cancer, obesity, heart disease, diabetes,
and hypertension. Ingested dietary fibre causes increased volume
of faeces, dilution of noxious substances, and shortening of the
transit time of intestinal contents, resulting in early excretion of
noxious substances such as carcinogens produced by intestinal
bacteria. '
http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/APJCN.../51p02.htm#top

Did you read this?

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:34:29 +0100, "pearl"
posted:

What I'm saying is that ongoing excess consumption of wheat
will often precipitate a wheat-specific allergic response.

No evidence for this. Some folk are allergic to just about anything.
I'm allergic to paper wasp stings. They cure this by giving me weekly
stings Go figure.

Eating
anything in excess may result in some problems as well, I agree.

But most of Western man's problems stem from too much energy.

can produce a craving
as well as allergic response (headaches, tiredness, fuzzy-headedness,
abdominal discomfort, bloating, tinnitus (referred) [especially with,
wheat-bran, shredded wheat, and weetabix, ..

Evidence? Or is this just personal opinion?

Evidence to what?

Your ipse dixit

Symptoms of allergic response to wheat,
or the part about tinnitus? The former is well known,

In a very few people, so what?

You admit it's not just my ipse dixit then.

No I asked you for evidence of what you said above.
Sure some folks are intolerant of wheat, or milk, or nuts, or
shellfish....

the latter
I learned during my training,

As what?

As a reflexologist.

OK. What are you doing on this group, then?

I hope you are not appealing to authority?

No, just answering your question 'Evidence? Or is this
just personal opinion?'.

So why mention "training" as though this gives what you say some
authority. It doesn't. It is just an ignorant personal opinion.

and has been confirmed many times
during almost ten years of clinical practice.

As what?

A reflexologist.

Sort of Tarot cards of the feet?

Anecdotal I know,
but I doubt I could do any better than that in this case, sorry.

So it is meaningless? Thanks.

It might be meaningless to you.

Or anyone else here.

Probably not to the tinnitus-suffering
all-bran/weetabix/shredded-wheat eating folks reading this though.

Show us any evidence that these things cause what you claim in any but
a tiny tiny minority of overfed Westerners who are becoming
increasingly allergic to everything. Possibly coz of our obbsessive
cleanliness.

all of which are highly
abrasive to the colon, especially the ileo-caecal valve, situated
between the small and large intestine- just above the appendix]).

Nonsense. We've evolved to eat such things.

'All-bran' and 'weetabix' bushes? (That's 'nonsense').
We haven't evolved to eat large amounts of course grain-fibre.

Well we've certainly survived it. And that's what really counts.

'Survived it' in what sense? As a species?

We're discussing individual's health, not surviving as a species.

No, we are discussing epidemiology, I would have thought.
General principles.

because vegetables alone didn't fill me up.

Nuts, seeds, legumes, cereals, sweet fruits, roots, leafy greens, rice?

But the pasta and bread didn't fill me up either!

Wholegrain or refined?

I could eat unlimited quantities of starchy foods, seemingly,
and never feel satiated.

You may have been missing out some higher protein plant-foods.

(Were you drinking 'diet' cokes, etc?).

Eliminating those foods has made it a lot easier
to eat less, and I feel a lot better too.

For cutting out all the wheat, no doubt.

Meat is a nutritionally dense
food, meat eating animals don't need to eat nearly as frequently to survive
as plant eating animals do.

Meat is a high protein food, in fact so high that it's unhealthy for us.

More nonsense! Do you regard eggs as unhealthy?

Animal product consumption and mortality because of all
causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes,
and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists.

Noticed they are nearly all skinny as rakes? I have.

Funny that, because many of them aren't vegetarians!

Well the few dozen that I have known have been, and the pictures I've
seen of SDA conferences were.

Snowdon DA. Division of Epidemiology, School of Public
Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.

This report reviews, contrasts, and illustrates previously published
findings from a cohort of 27,529 California Seventh-day Adventist
adults who completed questionnaires in 1960 and were followed
for mortality between 1960 and 1980. Within this population, meat
consumption was positively associated with mortality because of all
causes of death combined (in males), coronary heart disease (in
males and females), and diabetes (in males). Egg consumption was
positively associated with mortality because of all causes combined
(in females), coronary heart disease (in females), and cancers of the
colon (in males and females combined) and ovary. Milk consumption
was positively associated with only prostate cancer mortality, and
cheese consumption did not have a clear relationship with any cause
of death. The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not
have negative associations with any of the causes of death investigated.

PMID: 3046303 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Have you taken note of that?

Yes, so what? It tells us nothing but what it tells us. What were
these correlations like compared with say smoking, drinking,
overweight, sedentariness...

Otherwise, plant foods are far richer than meat in most nutrients,
and we can obtain all the essential nutrients we require, in suitable
and balanced amounts; sans all the unhealthy anti-nutrients in meat.

What ARE you talking about?

What part isn't clear?

The assertion abour anti-nutrients in meat.

Yes. I really should have written 'components' instead.

Again, what are you talking about?

I think one of the things that gets missed in
the debate about low-carb diets is that for the people who respond well to
it, you end up eating less overall than before.

The conclusion in the in-depth documentary I saw, was that protein
satiates appetite very quickly. But you could just as easily eat plant
foods that are high in protein, such as nuts and legumes, also rice.

Potatoes are the most satiating, when you measure it scientifically.

I find a diet comprised of a variety of quality plant foods very satiating.

I agree. But that doesn't mean that a little meat shouldn't be
included in this variety.

'In short, disease rates were significantly associated within a range
of dietary plant food composition that suggested an absence of a
disease prevention threshold. That is, the closer a diet is to an all-plant
foods diet, the greater will be the reduction in the rates of these diseases.'
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases...sis_paper.html

OBSERVED-TO-EXPECTED CORONARY
HEART DISEASE MORTALITY IN ADVENTIST MEN
Total Vegetarians 14%
Lacto-Ovo-Vegetarians 39%
Meat Users 56%
Phillips et al. (Amer. J. of Clinical Nutrition, 1978, 31: S191-S198)

RELATIVE risk of breast cancer among Japanese woman
Meat Eggs Butter/cheese
less than once per week 1.0 1.0 1.0
2-4 times per week 2.55 1.91 2.10
almost daily 3.83 2.86 3.23
(from a paper by Hirayama cited in John Scharffenberg's
"Problems with Meat", 1989)


So? Associations? Londoners who get run over by London busses have a
strong association with drinking tea.