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#11
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Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
*the* village idiot wrote:
... Look at the pictures and note that *HEAT* is used to process lecithin from liquid to granules. How much heat? I wrote 'high temperatures'- in the context of cooking. Cooking doesn't make any difference, either, at least with respect to changing its state. Lecithin remains lecithin, regardless of heat. All you do is exchange (add, subtract) moisture. Note also 'need for short residence time'. How long does it take to dry, regardless of method? Heat is applied. It doesn't destroy any property of lecithin aside to change its physical state from liquid to granule. The same occurs whether processing lecithin from soy oil or even cooking (which only puts lecithin in solution with other ingredients) with lecithin, dummy. Now try again. With your claims that it is best to consume lecithin 'raw' and that it is 'destroyed by high temperatures,' aside from the absence of moisture, how else are lecithin granules *chemically distinct* from liquid lecithin? What part of 'temperature-sensitive food' don't you understand, 'usual suspect'? You're the one not comprehending or supporting your claim that "lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures; it's best to take it raw." The lecithin you purchase -- liquid or granule -- as a supplement or a food additive has been subjected to heat. Lots of heat over long periods of time. It's *still* lecithin, it'll *still* work as an emulsifier in either state, and it *still* contains choline. Just how is lecithin separated from soy oil anyway? Lecithin is a combination of naturally-occurring phospholipids, which are extracted during the processing of soybean oil. The soybeans are tempered by keeping them at a consistent temperature and moisture level for approximately seven to 10 days. This process hydrates the soybeans and loosens the hull. The soybeans are then cleaned and cracked into small pieces and the hulls are separated from the cracked beans. Next, the soybean pieces are heated and pressed into flakes. Soybean oil is extracted from the flakes through a distillation process and lecithin is separated from the oil by the addition of water and centrifugation or steam precipitation. http://www.talksoy.com/pdfs/SoyLecithinFactSheet3.pdf Did someone say distillation? That involves heat, LOTS of heat for a LONG period of time. So does steam precipitation -- that happens at 100c over time: distillation, process used to separate the substances composing a mixture. It involves a change of state, as of liquid to gas, and subsequent condensation. The process was probably first used in the production of intoxicating beverages. Today, refined methods of distillation are used in many industries, including the alcohol and petroleum industries. http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0815646.html (read the part about distillation processes, dummy) Apparently much commercial soy-derived lecithin is rancid. IPSE DIXIT, DIP****. HOBOES.COM DOES *NOT* COUNT AS A VALID SOURCE. 'Much lecithin on the market is rancid. Thebest form of lecithin I know is Twin Labs brand "PC 55" - it contains 55% PC and is always very fresh. http://tinyurl.com/2rnyl hoboes.com??? Mondo 2000??? Surely you can do better than some Berkeley dork's personal zine. I wonder if they use a different extraction method for "PC 55". Yeah, so do I. Not. Lecithin is lecithin. 'Lecithin is a complex mixture of phospholipids and other materials. They vary greatly in their physical form, from viscous semiliquids to powders, depending upon their free fatty acid content. They are almost odorless and will vary in color from brown to light yellow. Lecithins are used as dispersing, emulsifying and stabilizing agents. They will decompose at extreme pH, are hygroscopic and will oxidize, darken and *decompose at high temperatures*. Lecithin should be stored at room temperature protected from light. Refrigeration may cause the material to separate.' http://www.rx4u.com/lecithn.htm *emphasis added. Ipse dixit. That site offers no evidence to support such claims. It also flies in the face of soy processing: lecithin results from a distillate process followed by centrifuge- or steam-separation from soy oil. So it goes through at least one stage in which sustained heat is absolutely required, and optionally a second. BTW, I'm surprised you advocate the use of a soy byproduct. When soy lecithin supplements were given throughout perinatal development, they reduced activity in the cerebral cortex and "altered synaptic characteristics in a manner consistent with disturbances in neural function." http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm - in non-human animals, So? possibly in excess. Excess according to what or whom? I'm not keen on soy products in general, but I think that many of the problems discovered may have been due to contaminants. The feminizing aspects of phytoestrogens are not contaminants. Rat pups, exposed to high doses of the plant estrogen coumestrol (found in sunflower seeds and oil and alfalfa sprouts) through their mother's milk, suffered permanent reproductive problems: female pups when grown did not ovulate, and males had altered mounting behavior and fewer ejaculations (2). [Whitten, P., C. Lewis and F. Naftolin. 1993. A Phytoestrogen diet induces the premature anovulatory syndrome in lactationally exposed female rats. Biology of Reproduction 49:1117-21.] Neonatal and immature rats exposed to coumestrol experienced estrogen-related responses, such as premature estrous cycles. Coumestrol also interrupted ovarian cycles in adult female rats (3). [Barrett, J. 1996. Phytoestrogens: Friends or Foes? Environmental Health Perspectives 104:478-82.] Newborn rats exposed to the phytoestrogen genistein (a compound found in soy products), experienced altered hormone secretions and the onset of puberty may have been delayed because female rats were exposed to the compound as fetuses (3). [Ibid.] “In males, levels of 17B-estradiol and testosterone were not affected, but levels of 3a, 17B- androstanediol glucuronide (a metabolite of dihydrotestosterone) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate were decreased by 13% and 14%, respectively, after 2-4 weeks of daily soya ingestion.” [Supported by USPHS CA56273, CA65628, CA45181, John Sealy Memorial Endowment Fund for Biomedical Research, American Institute for Cancer Research grant 95B119, and NIH NCRR GCRC grant M01 RR00073] All above lifted from: http://www.cheapbodybuildingsuppleme...estrogen.shtml Additionally, see: http://www.t-mag.com/articles/185soy.html http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter6.htm |
#12
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Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
*the* village idiot "usual suspect" wrote in message
... pearl wrote: ... I wonder if they use a different extraction method for "PC 55". Yeah, so do I. Not. Lecithin is lecithin. “lecithin” differs from “phosphatidylcholine”, however. 'Supplements labeled as “lecithin” usually contain 10–20% PC. Relatively pure PC supplements are generally labeled as “phosphatidylcholine.” PC best duplicates supplements used in medical research. http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/Supp/Lecithin.htm 'Impact of Cooking, Storage and Processing How do cooking, storage & processing affect choline? Although consistent information is not available on the effects of cooking, storage, and processing on the choline content of food, choline’s participation in cell membranes and in the fatty portion of food renders it susceptible to alteration by oxygen and heat. While maximizing choline content would not be a good reason to choose raw egg yolk over cooked egg yolk (too many safety risks are involved with raw egg yolk), overcooking of foods high in choline would be a practice worth avoiding to help preserve choline content. ' http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=50 'Lecithin is a complex mixture of phospholipids and other materials. They vary greatly in their physical form, from viscous semiliquids to powders, depending upon their free fatty acid content. They are almost odorless and will vary in color from brown to light yellow. Lecithins are used as dispersing, emulsifying and stabilizing agents. They will decompose at extreme pH, are hygroscopic and will oxidize, darken and *decompose at high temperatures*. Lecithin should be stored at room temperature protected from light. Refrigeration may cause the material to separate.' http://www.rx4u.com/lecithn.htm *emphasis added. Ipse dixit. That site offers no evidence to support such claims. It also flies in the face of soy processing: lecithin results from a distillate process followed by centrifuge- or steam-separation from soy oil. So it goes through at least one stage in which sustained heat is absolutely required, and optionally a second. Lecithin is produced for many different usages, I'm talking about quality phosphatidylcholine nutritional supplements. BTW, I'm surprised you advocate the use of a soy byproduct. When soy lecithin supplements were given throughout perinatal development, they reduced activity in the cerebral cortex and "altered synaptic characteristics in a manner consistent with disturbances in neural function." http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm - in non-human animals, So? So they are completely different species with different reactions to various substances. And you call others pseudo-scientific quacks! possibly in excess. Excess according to what or whom? According to a RAT's tolerance, ducky. I'm not keen on soy products in general, but I think that many of the problems discovered may have been due to contaminants. The feminizing aspects of phytoestrogens are not contaminants. Rat Rats are not humans. snip cruel time-wasting 'research' All above lifted from: http://www.cheapbodybuildingsuppleme...estrogen.shtml Additionally, see: http://www.t-mag.com/articles/185soy.html http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter6.htm |
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