Ready to quit

Linda,

My experience is that something ugly happens to our metabolisms when we get
to a very low weight. Our caloric needs drop and anything can put weight
back on.

I certainly haven't gotten this one beat. I've maintained okay, but only by
limiting calories very tightly all the time.

A couple thoughts:

1. When you are low carbing are you eating commercial "low carb" foods that
are full of sugar alcohols and, increasingly, transfat? If so, you may be
getting a lot more carbohydrate than you think.

2. Have you tracked your calorie intake while low carbing to see how much
you are eating. The classic low carb diet which works so beautifully when
people have 30 or more pounds to lose can stop working for those of us who
are even just ten pounds below the weight our bodies would like to be. I
find it takes 500 less calories a day to maintain at 142 lbs than it did at
152 lbs. That's because 152 was my body's chosen weight and 142 the level I
forced it down to.

3. I have found that high insulin production can mess up my weight even when
I am eating perfectly. Do you have a family history of diabetes or any
other suggestion that you might have high insulin levels. Contrary to what
the diet books suggest, long term low carbing can increase insulin
resistance. It did in my case. However, this takes some specialized medical
tests to check out.
One hint that high insulin might be at work is if you are mostly gaining
abdominal weight--pants tighter at same weight as before.


-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm


"Linda" wrote in message
om...
I've been lurking here for quite a while, and have gotten much support
and information from this group (thank you!) But now I've reached the
end of my rope and need some advice, and I thought some of you might
be able to give me some words of wisdom.

I started low-carbing in May 2002, one year ahead of my wedding, at
the weight of 152 (I am 5'6"). By my wedding date, I was 25 pounds
lighter, at 127 (yay!) On my two-week honeymoon in Tahiti, I put on
14 pounds (yikes!), 7 pounds of which I was able to take off the first
week back.

Since then (one year and four months) I have been basically taking one
step forward and two steps back. During my pre-wedding weight loss, I
was pretty much keeping around 30-40 carbs a day. Almost a year ago I
cut back to 20 grams a day, and rarely go over that. Once every
couple of months, either on a business trip or a weekend getaway, I
eat whatever I want, gain about 4 pounds, and then over the next few
weeks lose about 3 of them, so I've been slowly going backwards. I am
now at 142. Even when I go for months at a time staying faithfully at
20 grams or less, I can't lose anything, and often gain.

I feel so frustrated, and deprived and angry at passing up the food I
really want to eat, exercising 3 times a week, following all the
rules, and still.I gained two pounds this week! What the heck is that
all about? I eat meat, cheese, salad, and that's about it. I'm ready
to chuck it all, but I'm afraid to because if I gain weight staying at
20 carbs a day, what's going to happen if I quit? I don't want to be
one of those statistics that gain back everything they lose and then
some.

Can anybody out there give me any advice?

Thank you in advance,
Linda

Linda,

My experience is that something ugly happens to our metabolisms when we get
to a very low weight. Our caloric needs drop and anything can put weight
back on.

I certainly haven't gotten this one beat. I've maintained okay, but only by
limiting calories very tightly all the time.

A couple thoughts:

1. When you are low carbing are you eating commercial "low carb" foods that
are full of sugar alcohols and, increasingly, transfat? If so, you may be
getting a lot more carbohydrate than you think.

2. Have you tracked your calorie intake while low carbing to see how much
you are eating. The classic low carb diet which works so beautifully when
people have 30 or more pounds to lose can stop working for those of us who
are even just ten pounds below the weight our bodies would like to be. I
find it takes 500 less calories a day to maintain at 142 lbs than it did at
152 lbs. That's because 152 was my body's chosen weight and 142 the level I
forced it down to.

3. I have found that high insulin production can mess up my weight even when
I am eating perfectly. Do you have a family history of diabetes or any
other suggestion that you might have high insulin levels. Contrary to what
the diet books suggest, long term low carbing can increase insulin
resistance. It did in my case. However, this takes some specialized medical
tests to check out.
One hint that high insulin might be at work is if you are mostly gaining
abdominal weight--pants tighter at same weight as before.


-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 4 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/...0Diagnosed.htm


"Linda" wrote in message
om...
I've been lurking here for quite a while, and have gotten much support
and information from this group (thank you!) But now I've reached the
end of my rope and need some advice, and I thought some of you might
be able to give me some words of wisdom.

I started low-carbing in May 2002, one year ahead of my wedding, at
the weight of 152 (I am 5'6"). By my wedding date, I was 25 pounds
lighter, at 127 (yay!) On my two-week honeymoon in Tahiti, I put on
14 pounds (yikes!), 7 pounds of which I was able to take off the first
week back.

Since then (one year and four months) I have been basically taking one
step forward and two steps back. During my pre-wedding weight loss, I
was pretty much keeping around 30-40 carbs a day. Almost a year ago I
cut back to 20 grams a day, and rarely go over that. Once every
couple of months, either on a business trip or a weekend getaway, I
eat whatever I want, gain about 4 pounds, and then over the next few
weeks lose about 3 of them, so I've been slowly going backwards. I am
now at 142. Even when I go for months at a time staying faithfully at
20 grams or less, I can't lose anything, and often gain.

I feel so frustrated, and deprived and angry at passing up the food I
really want to eat, exercising 3 times a week, following all the
rules, and still.I gained two pounds this week! What the heck is that
all about? I eat meat, cheese, salad, and that's about it. I'm ready
to chuck it all, but I'm afraid to because if I gain weight staying at
20 carbs a day, what's going to happen if I quit? I don't want to be
one of those statistics that gain back everything they lose and then
some.

Can anybody out there give me any advice?

Thank you in advance,
Linda

Linda wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Are you still in ketosis?

No, I'm not in ketosis. I've NEVER been in ketosis. Even during my
active weight loss period, I've never registered anything on the
strip. I've always wondered about that. I thought maybe I got a bad
batch of strips so I bought another bottle, and still nothing.

Ketosis is the primary tool of Atkins. As you have learned from
staying low, and from losing better at 30-40 than at 20, the
scale cannot possibly be used to judge CCLL. Since staying lower
triggers stalls in some including you, the scale doersn't work
to judge ideal carb intake.

But if you've never registered anything but completely unaltered
biege, that makes it much harder to figure out your CCLL. Have
have never registered trace, right? Some folks mistakenly think
that darker purple is needed to count as positive. Your statement
"never registered anything" is quite explicit that you never saw
anything but completely unaltered biege but I like to double,
triple and quadruple check the point just in case.

Figuring out CCLL without ketosis is a much more difficult game
but staying low isn't the way to do it. You've already proven
that doesn't work.

I'm afraid to increase my carb intake

Everyone is afraid. Join the club.

because I know my body pretty well, and I'll start gaining
immediately.

False. You have confused short term temporary water swings
with long term new fat storage. Do NOT do this to yourself.
Increasing carbs does NOT trigger new fat storage like that.
That's the entire principle of how the Premaintenance phase
and finding CCLM works.

I mean, obviously if I'm gaining at 20 grams, I'll gain
more at 40, won't I?

Obvious does NOT equal true!

Obvious - You can only get fat by eating fat. Obvious -
From each according to his ability, to each according to his
need. Obvious - If we repeal Prohibition there will be
crowds of drunks in the street.

It just makes sense to me.

I know. The actual working of Atkins are not obvious and it
makes sense to not follow the directions. I bet Dr A was
astonished when he tried the obvious of telling some of his
patients to stay low and saw some stall and the non-obvious
of telling some of his patients to go higher and they lost
faster.

The 4-phase Atkins core process works better than the obvious.
The 4-phase Atkins core process does not make sense on the
surface until you dig deep into the hormones that drive what
happens. The 4-phase Atkins core process works no matter
that it isn't obvious.

How's doing the obvious been working for you these days?

Take a step back. You've spent months clutching on the
obvious and you've stalled because you did that. It is time
to try something else. The obvious has already failed for you,
so you may as well try the non-obvious.

The time scale for loss is month to month. Without ketosis
you have no choice but to try on a month to month time scale
because you don't have the week to week tool of ketosis.
Spend a month a 30, a month at 40, a month at 50. Evaluate
each month at the end of the month afterwards. When you
finish the month of 40, see how the month of 30 worked.

Yes, this is not obvious. Yes, you don't believe that it
will work. Yes, the obvious has already failed for you.
Step out in faith and try it!

Linda wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Are you still in ketosis?

No, I'm not in ketosis. I've NEVER been in ketosis. Even during my
active weight loss period, I've never registered anything on the
strip. I've always wondered about that. I thought maybe I got a bad
batch of strips so I bought another bottle, and still nothing.

Ketosis is the primary tool of Atkins. As you have learned from
staying low, and from losing better at 30-40 than at 20, the
scale cannot possibly be used to judge CCLL. Since staying lower
triggers stalls in some including you, the scale doersn't work
to judge ideal carb intake.

But if you've never registered anything but completely unaltered
biege, that makes it much harder to figure out your CCLL. Have
have never registered trace, right? Some folks mistakenly think
that darker purple is needed to count as positive. Your statement
"never registered anything" is quite explicit that you never saw
anything but completely unaltered biege but I like to double,
triple and quadruple check the point just in case.

Figuring out CCLL without ketosis is a much more difficult game
but staying low isn't the way to do it. You've already proven
that doesn't work.

I'm afraid to increase my carb intake

Everyone is afraid. Join the club.

because I know my body pretty well, and I'll start gaining
immediately.

False. You have confused short term temporary water swings
with long term new fat storage. Do NOT do this to yourself.
Increasing carbs does NOT trigger new fat storage like that.
That's the entire principle of how the Premaintenance phase
and finding CCLM works.

I mean, obviously if I'm gaining at 20 grams, I'll gain
more at 40, won't I?

Obvious does NOT equal true!

Obvious - You can only get fat by eating fat. Obvious -
From each according to his ability, to each according to his
need. Obvious - If we repeal Prohibition there will be
crowds of drunks in the street.

It just makes sense to me.

I know. The actual working of Atkins are not obvious and it
makes sense to not follow the directions. I bet Dr A was
astonished when he tried the obvious of telling some of his
patients to stay low and saw some stall and the non-obvious
of telling some of his patients to go higher and they lost
faster.

The 4-phase Atkins core process works better than the obvious.
The 4-phase Atkins core process does not make sense on the
surface until you dig deep into the hormones that drive what
happens. The 4-phase Atkins core process works no matter
that it isn't obvious.

How's doing the obvious been working for you these days?

Take a step back. You've spent months clutching on the
obvious and you've stalled because you did that. It is time
to try something else. The obvious has already failed for you,
so you may as well try the non-obvious.

The time scale for loss is month to month. Without ketosis
you have no choice but to try on a month to month time scale
because you don't have the week to week tool of ketosis.
Spend a month a 30, a month at 40, a month at 50. Evaluate
each month at the end of the month afterwards. When you
finish the month of 40, see how the month of 30 worked.

Yes, this is not obvious. Yes, you don't believe that it
will work. Yes, the obvious has already failed for you.
Step out in faith and try it!

I feel so frustrated, and deprived and angry at passing up the food I
really want to eat, exercising 3 times a week, following all the
rules, and still?I gained two pounds this week! What the heck is that
all about? I eat meat, cheese, salad, and that's about it. I'm ready
to chuck it all, but I'm afraid to because if I gain weight staying at
20 carbs a day, what's going to happen if I quit? I don't want to be
one of those statistics that gain back everything they lose and then
some.

Can anybody out there give me any advice?

i'd advise you to pull your head out of your ass. at 142 you're not
overweight by any stretch of the imagination.


Minus the less-than-positive comment, I whole-heartedly agree! Linda,
I think it is a matter of perception. I am 5'6" and my GOAL is 142. I
am 163 now. When I got married (21 years ago), I was 115. LOL, I can't
go by the "pre-married" weight as a goal. I'd have to be sickly to
reach that. Funny how things change. Back then I could eat anything
and never gain. Then over the next couple years of married life, I
gained up to "normal" weight (135). I was horrified then, because I
had gained 20 pounds (then babies came and *bam* I was 200 lbs.). But
now I'd LOVE to be 135. If you really want to lose more try doing more
intense exercise on the 3 days or add a day and make it 4 days.

Don't quit! Quitting is not an option. Do you want to feel more
depressed and and discouraged? You do NOT want to "go there" and you
know it. Make small changes to your diet and exercise and see if more
pounds drop, but even if you maintain, you are still doing great at
that weight.

Peggy

Peggy

I feel so frustrated, and deprived and angry at passing up the food I
really want to eat, exercising 3 times a week, following all the
rules, and still?I gained two pounds this week! What the heck is that
all about? I eat meat, cheese, salad, and that's about it. I'm ready
to chuck it all, but I'm afraid to because if I gain weight staying at
20 carbs a day, what's going to happen if I quit? I don't want to be
one of those statistics that gain back everything they lose and then
some.

Can anybody out there give me any advice?

i'd advise you to pull your head out of your ass. at 142 you're not
overweight by any stretch of the imagination.


Minus the less-than-positive comment, I whole-heartedly agree! Linda,
I think it is a matter of perception. I am 5'6" and my GOAL is 142. I
am 163 now. When I got married (21 years ago), I was 115. LOL, I can't
go by the "pre-married" weight as a goal. I'd have to be sickly to
reach that. Funny how things change. Back then I could eat anything
and never gain. Then over the next couple years of married life, I
gained up to "normal" weight (135). I was horrified then, because I
had gained 20 pounds (then babies came and *bam* I was 200 lbs.). But
now I'd LOVE to be 135. If you really want to lose more try doing more
intense exercise on the 3 days or add a day and make it 4 days.

Don't quit! Quitting is not an option. Do you want to feel more
depressed and and discouraged? You do NOT want to "go there" and you
know it. Make small changes to your diet and exercise and see if more
pounds drop, but even if you maintain, you are still doing great at
that weight.

Peggy

Peggy

(Doug Freyburger) wrote in message . com...
Linda wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Are you still in ketosis?

No, I'm not in ketosis. I've NEVER been in ketosis. Even during my
active weight loss period, I've never registered anything on the
strip. I've always wondered about that. I thought maybe I got a bad
batch of strips so I bought another bottle, and still nothing.

Ketosis is the primary tool of Atkins. As you have learned from
staying low, and from losing better at 30-40 than at 20, the
scale cannot possibly be used to judge CCLL. Since staying lower
triggers stalls in some including you, the scale doersn't work
to judge ideal carb intake.

But if you've never registered anything but completely unaltered
biege, that makes it much harder to figure out your CCLL. Have
have never registered trace, right? Some folks mistakenly think
that darker purple is needed to count as positive. Your statement
"never registered anything" is quite explicit that you never saw
anything but completely unaltered biege but I like to double,
triple and quadruple check the point just in case.

Beige, beige, beige. That's it. How is that possible?


Figuring out CCLL without ketosis is a much more difficult game
but staying low isn't the way to do it. You've already proven
that doesn't work.

I'm afraid to increase my carb intake

Everyone is afraid. Join the club.

because I know my body pretty well, and I'll start gaining
immediately.

False. You have confused short term temporary water swings
with long term new fat storage. Do NOT do this to yourself.
Increasing carbs does NOT trigger new fat storage like that.
That's the entire principle of how the Premaintenance phase
and finding CCLM works.

I mean, obviously if I'm gaining at 20 grams, I'll gain
more at 40, won't I?

Obvious does NOT equal true!

Obvious - You can only get fat by eating fat. Obvious -
From each according to his ability, to each according to his
need. Obvious - If we repeal Prohibition there will be
crowds of drunks in the street.

It just makes sense to me.

I know. The actual working of Atkins are not obvious and it
makes sense to not follow the directions. I bet Dr A was
astonished when he tried the obvious of telling some of his
patients to stay low and saw some stall and the non-obvious
of telling some of his patients to go higher and they lost
faster.

The 4-phase Atkins core process works better than the obvious.
The 4-phase Atkins core process does not make sense on the
surface until you dig deep into the hormones that drive what
happens. The 4-phase Atkins core process works no matter
that it isn't obvious.

How's doing the obvious been working for you these days?

Take a step back. You've spent months clutching on the
obvious and you've stalled because you did that. It is time
to try something else. The obvious has already failed for you,
so you may as well try the non-obvious.

I know it's time to try something different. I've been insanely doing
the same thing that hasn't been working, expecting it to somehow
magically start working. That IS the definition of insanity!


The time scale for loss is month to month. Without ketosis
you have no choice but to try on a month to month time scale
because you don't have the week to week tool of ketosis.
Spend a month a 30, a month at 40, a month at 50. Evaluate
each month at the end of the month afterwards. When you
finish the month of 40, see how the month of 30 worked.

Yes, this is not obvious. Yes, you don't believe that it
will work. Yes, the obvious has already failed for you.
Step out in faith and try it!

I'll give anything a try. I just didn't know what to try. Thanks for
the advice.

On 19 Aug 2004 10:13:13 -0700, Linda wrote:



.. Once every
couple of months, either on a business trip or a weekend getaway, I
eat whatever I want, gain about 4 pounds, and then over the next few
weeks lose about 3 of them, so I've been slowly going backwards.

It sounds like the binge and purge of low carb. What EXACTLY does "eat
whatever I want" mean?

I feel so frustrated, and deprived and angry at passing up the food I
really want to eat, exercising 3 times a week, following all the
rules, and still…I gained two pounds this week!

You are treating this as a DIET not as a change in your way of eating. You
must change your way of thinking.

What the heck is that
all about? I eat meat, cheese, salad, and that's about it.

Where are your veggies?



--
Morgoth

morgoth wrote:

On 19 Aug 2004 10:13:13 -0700, Linda wrote:



. Once every
couple of months, either on a business trip or a weekend getaway, I
eat whatever I want, gain about 4 pounds, and then over the next few
weeks lose about 3 of them, so I've been slowly going backwards.

It sounds like the binge and purge of low carb. What EXACTLY does "eat
whatever I want" mean?

I feel so frustrated, and deprived and angry at passing up the food I
really want to eat, exercising 3 times a week, following all the
rules, and still…I gained two pounds this week!

You are treating this as a DIET not as a change in your way of eating. You
must change your way of thinking.

What the heck is that
all about? I eat meat, cheese, salad, and that's about it.

Where are your veggies?

she said she eats salad.

morgoth wrote:

On 19 Aug 2004 10:13:13 -0700, Linda wrote:



. Once every
couple of months, either on a business trip or a weekend getaway, I
eat whatever I want, gain about 4 pounds, and then over the next few
weeks lose about 3 of them, so I've been slowly going backwards.

It sounds like the binge and purge of low carb. What EXACTLY does "eat
whatever I want" mean?

I feel so frustrated, and deprived and angry at passing up the food I
really want to eat, exercising 3 times a week, following all the
rules, and still…I gained two pounds this week!

You are treating this as a DIET not as a change in your way of eating. You
must change your way of thinking.

What the heck is that
all about? I eat meat, cheese, salad, and that's about it.

Where are your veggies?

she said she eats salad.