Fat people

On Apr 21, 4:11 pm, Ragnar wrote:
On Apr 21, 1:46 pm, Daedalus wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar

wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:04 pm, Daedalus wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar

wrote:
On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote
this stuff here :

Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price
wrote this stuff here :

Naughty Boy wrote:
Tiger_Lily wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com:

Naughty Boy wrote:
WaCoder wrote in
:

Pete wrote:
Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you...
What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese,
i mean...

Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid.
This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted
statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat"
with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of
hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But
just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away
with it. For shame....
Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race
they were born. Fat people do it to themselves.
Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you
for the straight dope?
How else do fat people get fat?

Certainly not by being lazy or stupid.

What theories do you have? let's hear them!

untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add
thyroid meds to diabetes meds

is that good enough for you?

kate
The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take
for that one to come up.

What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? I can't
imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public.

For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid
condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do
not exercise.

i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment

look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon

at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30
years ago

ok, back to you on your high horse

kate

I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders,
although more than half remain undiagnosed."
This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual
number of people affected.
According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology,
Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the
upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to
3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry,
there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo
Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million
people would be hypothyroid.

The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely
far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million
people.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm

Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of
thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it
could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not
saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does
seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would
believe.

Ragnar

Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and
hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of
any information on obesity given by the medical community at large,
would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid
disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in
general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they
can uncover.

Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never
spoke in absolutes.

You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If
someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will
die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet
industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you
could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting
something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility.
Hy-Po-Crite.

You missed the entire point asswipe; I only presented some an article
that may have shed some light on what a poster was questioning. The
“always learning” stated something to the effect that thyroid
disorders only affect 1 in a million people. I present some numbers
that contradicted his or her ludicrous claims. I never presented them
as completely undeniably factual. Do you have supportable numbers to
the contrary, I’d love to see them?

Besides dumbass show me where I ever pitched a fit over cancer rates
and a supposed correlation to obesity. People post inflammatory
articles that at times even contradict each other and you rarely see
me making statement as you claim I do. You obviously are still
fishing
for an argument. Is your life that lacking for entertainment? You
pathetic piece of ****. What’s the matter you ugly slob? Still can’t
get laid on the weekends?

Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is
you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting
tiresome.

Hypocrite

Idiot

My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected
by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid
issues and obesity.

I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly
where this discussion was headed however.

Okay, now Jade can read minds. Got anymore tricks for us dumbass?
HEY EVERYBODY JADES SHOWING OFF HER POWERS OF CLAIRVOYANCE! COME SEE
THE SHOW!
What’s next, communication with the dead?

You really are a presumptuous ass.

If you go back and read I only suggested that the
number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and
never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in
fact hard data.

But it is a viable possiblity in your mind, because this one fits your
agenda.

Viable in your opinion or not, it is a possibility just like it
might not be. I can’t
say for certain, nor can you. But you do seem to think that the
numbers are bogus so why don’t you set me straight and produce some
more accurate numbers that are verifiable.

In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only
suggests that the numbers quoted could be real.

Not only that. They go on to ridiculously state that the numbers could
only be real if they changed the definition of what a thyroid disorder
was.

The article suggests lowering the upper limit of the TSH test from .
05 to 5 down to .03 to 3 as recommended by the American Association
of
Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical
Biochemistry. But it doesn’t give a reason why. So commenting on that
is irrelevant. You have no clue regarding the reasoning behind the
testing threshold so you are not qualified to dispute it.

I clearly understood this when I wrote my post which you did not get
at all.

More of Jade’s circle jerk bull**** noted. You clearly recognized
nothing of the sort in your pitiful attempt at an argument.

I any event doctors
will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is
afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating
the numbers.

Are you serious?

Yes very, a miss or false diagnosis of thyroid disease can lead to
serious health complications or even death. No competent doctor would
take that kind of chance, so providing inflated study numbers
translates to nothing in the real world.

Do you think that suddenly people are just going to
willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they
don’t have?

Of course they are. It happens all the time. That's how the ADD
industry came to be a booming business.

It makes it much easier when they change the definition of thyroid
problems.

ADHD and thyroid are very different issues. Diagnosing thyroid
disease requires lab blood analysis and as I stated before a
misdiagnosis of a thyroid issue can lead to serious health
consequences VERY rapidly. In other words provide a bad diagnosis and
prescribe the wrong meds and the patient can die. While ADHD only
requires sociological profiling of the suspected individual and the
meds prescribed do not carry the same health risks.
Prescribing the wrong meds for a thyroid issue can be just as deadly
as prescribing the wrong heart medication for a person that doesn’t
need it.

Maybe you should brush up on thyroid disease and the meds
provided for such diseases before you make anymore ludicrous
statement
and embarrass your self further.

You are a certifiable idiot. You obviously know nothing about hypo or
hyperthyroidism and what constitutes the disease.

You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that
isn’t there.

Actually, that's what you were setting up to do. I'm calling you on
it.

Yeah okay you are privy to what’s in my head. LOL.

If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive
more funding for research then so be it.

And if inflated numbers help you argue with people on usenet, then who
cares if it is real data or a guess?

You still haven't proven that the numbers are inflated and I wasn’t
arguing That point seems to escape you constantly.

You got something against
healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet
fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular
affiction.

It is exactly like that, dummy. Guess where much of the R&D money
comes from?

And guess who benefits from the R&D money they spend -

You're still not getting it, are you?

Everyone benefits that’s how it works. Pharmaceuticals make money and
those afflicted with the disease get a cure or a way to control their
affliction.

If you think it works any other way then you are obviously paranoid
delusional. It matters not the motive.



Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any
thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he?

I don’t know and I don’t care.

So you post questionable information to prove a point on usenet and
admit not caring whether it is completely inaccurate or even
intentionally perverted?

Some integrity you got there.

So you can’t disprove the numbers so you attack the integrity of the
poster and the data provided, how typical of you Jade.
Look at it this way, if integrity was what I was after I wouldn't be
dignifying you with a response now would I?

Maybe he just receives grant money from
big pharma, most research facilities do.

And theyare usually pressured to pay it back in new drug patents or in
research data that supports the business. That is the only reason that
grant money is ever given.

So you are saying that all grant supported medical research is
tainted?

Are you trying to say he has
a hidden agenda?

I don't know, but unlike you, I care to know.

Yeah of course you do. Why don’t you investigate and report back to
me plebe.

Isn’t that what many members of this group have been
suggesting about medical research and the diet industry?

LOLOLOLOL! Jesus ****ing Christ! the monkey and the keyboard axiom
comes to life.

You didn't read my post at all, did you?

Frankly Jade your posts get so predictable that reading them becomes
a matter of wading through bull**** and never getting anything
conclusive.

Again you
seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as
real hard facts.

Nope. Your protobrain once again imported thoughts that never appeared
on usenet.

Please reread what I posted. You will look far less like a fool next
time you respond to me.

Then what is your point you mean you haven’t been attacking me for
posting unverifiable data and claiming it is for real? Did you spew
so
much bull**** that you forget your own argument? LOL.

That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more
common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to
promote it as evidence of something.

I guess any info that fits your agenda, right?

Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100%
factual. Show me where I made that claim.

You presented the estimates as evidence, Ragnar. You felt that they
proved there was a possibility of massive thyroid epidemics or you
would not have posted them. People don't post things they think are
wrong in an argument, even people as stupid as you.

I never said the number were right or wrong. I only wanted to
illustrate that the 1 in a million figure posted by “always learning”
was in all likelihood a trolls fabrication much like your current
argument.
So you think the numbers are bogus? Well they could very well be but
don’t make assumptions on what I think they are. I’ve already stated
that they may or may not be true but one thing is certain the numbers
are a lot higher than 1 in a million as “always learning” was trying
to claim.
Since you claim to be so concerned why don’t you counter those
supposedly bogus numbers with the real data? I would also like to see
it.

My own stance on this issue has never been one of absolutes as you
have claimed it is. I’m still waiting for you to show me where I came
out and endorsed the quoted numbers as 100% factual. I would suspect
that even a bright bulb like you would be hard pressed to prove that.



Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go
undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to
verify.

No ****. That's why making an estimate that one in six people has one
is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Doing a good job here tearing apart your
own post. Do you still think that the good Dr's estimate is a viable
possiblity?

Idiot, since you claim the numbers are essentially unverifiable then
claiming a 1 in 6 ratio is a possibility until disproved with
provable
data. I don’t really care how ridiculous it looks to you. Prove the
numbers wrong then open your ignorant maw.

Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be
present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being
noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever
picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves
readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be
affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as
supposition.

Nobody knows. Yet you posted it as though it meant something.

So did the doctor that claims the numbers to be true. I still
haven’t
seen anything out of you to the contrary other than your arguably
unqualified opinion.

Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an
argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here.

oops. Guess you got me there. lol

I’m glad we can agree ****stick. Now run along and find the
supportable contrary data that you are so concerned about before I am
forced to kick you in that rotten **** of yours again.

hypocrite.

Hypocrite? Do you even know the meaning of the word?

Ragnar

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar
wrote:

On Apr 21, 1:46*pm, Daedalus wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar

wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:04*pm, Daedalus wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar

wrote:
On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote
this stuff here :

Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price
wrote this stuff here :

Naughty Boy wrote:
Tiger_Lily wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com:

Naughty Boy wrote:
WaCoder wrote in
:

Pete wrote:
Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you...
What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese,
i mean...

Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid.
This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted
statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat"
with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of
hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But
just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away
with it. For shame....
Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race
they were born. Fat people do it to themselves.
Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you
for the straight dope?
How else do fat people get fat?

Certainly not by being lazy or stupid.

What theories do you have? let's hear them!

untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add
thyroid meds to diabetes meds

is that good enough for you?

kate
The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take
for that one to come up.

What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? *I can't
imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public.

For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid
condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do
not exercise.

i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment

look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon

at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30
years ago

ok, back to you on your high horse

kate

I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders,
although more than half remain undiagnosed."
This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual
number of people affected.
According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology,
Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the
upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to
3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry,
there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo
Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million
people would be hypothyroid.

The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely
far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million
people.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm

Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of
thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it
could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not
saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does
seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would
believe.

Ragnar

Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and
hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of
any information on obesity given by the medical community at large,
would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid
disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in
general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they
can uncover.

Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never
spoke in absolutes.

You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If
someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will
die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet
industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you
could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting
something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility.
Hy-Po-Crite.

You missed the entire point asswipe; I only presented some an article
that may have shed some light on what a poster was questioning.

We've only gone through that several times now. Stop whining that I'm
the one missing the point when you clearly can't ****ing understand
simple English.

The
“always learning” stated something to the effect that thyroid
disorders only affect 1 in a million people. I present some numbers
that contradicted his or her ludicrous claims. I never presented them
as completely undeniably factual.

NO ****. See above, illiterate moron.

Do you have supportable numbers to
the contrary, I’d love to see them?

Why would I? See above, illiterate moron.


Besides dumbass show me where I ever pitched a fit over cancer rates
and a supposed correlation to obesity.

OMFG are you stupid. bwahahahaha! Reread the post, illiterate moron.
Pay special attention to the word "if"

People post inflammatory
articles that at times even contradict each other and you rarely see
me making statement as you claim I do. You obviously are still fishing
for an argument. Is your life that lacking for entertainment? You
pathetic piece of ****. What’s the matter you ugly slob? Still can’t
get laid on the weekends?

Calm down, Ragnar. Remember your heart.

Hold on tight to the fantasy that I'm unattractive and sexless. It
clearly makes you feel better.



Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is
you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting
tiresome.

Hypocrite

Idiot

My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected
by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid
issues and obesity.

I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly
where this discussion was headed however.

Okay, now Jade can read minds. Got anymore tricks for us dumbass?
HEY EVERYBODY JADES SHOWING OFF HER POWERS OF CLAIRVOYANCE! COME SEE
THE SHOW!
What’s next, communication with the dead?

I love it when you get hysterical. Where did I say I read your mind,
illiterate moron?


You really are a presumptuous ass.

Taking flaming lessons from Bobbi, I see.


If you go back and read I only suggested that the
number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and
never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in
fact hard data.

But it is a viable possiblity in your mind, because this one fits your
agenda.

Viable or not, it is a possibility just like it might not be. I can’t
say for certain, nor can you. But you do seem to think that the
numbers are bogus so why don’t you set me straight and produce some
more accurate numbers that are verifiable.

I don't need to. That wasn't the point. The point was you posted them,
making you a hypocrite. I already win. Keep throwing your temper
tantrum though.


In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only
suggests that the numbers quoted could be real.

Not only that. They go on to ridiculously state that the numbers could
only be real if they changed the definition of what a thyroid disorder
was.

The article suggests lowering the upper limit of the TSH test from .
05 to 5 down to .03 to 3 as recommended by the American Association of
Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical
Biochemistry.

The people that would make money off of it.

But it doesn’t give a reason why. So commenting on that
is irrelevant.
You have no clue regarding the reasoning behind the
testing threshold so you are not qualified to dispute it.

I have firsthand knowledge about the pharma industry and research
funding. I guarantee you I know a lot more about it than you do.


I clearly understood this when I wrote my post which you did not get
at all. *

More of Jade’s circle jerk bull**** noted. You clearly recognized
nothing of the sort in your pitiful attempt at an argument.


IKYABWAI!

I any event doctors
will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is
afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating
the numbers.

Are you serious?

Yes very, a miss or false diagnosis of thyroid disease can lead to
serious health complications or even death. No competent doctor would
take that kind of chance, so providing inflated study numbers
translates to nothing in the real world.

You know nothing and are very wrong here.


Do you think that suddenly people are just going to
willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they
don’t have?

Of course they are. It happens all the time. That's how the ADD
industry came to be a booming business.

It makes it much easier when they change the definition of thyroid
problems.

ADHD and thyroid are very different issues.

So are hairloss and the ****ing clap. Pharma industry works the same
across the board.

Diagnosing thyroid
disease requires lab blood analysis and as I stated before a
misdiagnosis of a thyroid issue can lead to serious health
consequences VERY rapidly. In other words provide a bad diagnosis and
prescribe the wrong meds and the patient can die.

It isn't about the WRONG meds. It is about a certain kind of meds and
getting the FDA to approve use of lower dosages. Again, you are
talking to someone who knows first hand about how the pharma industry
works. You clearly know nothing.

While ADHD only
requires sociological profiling of the suspected individual and the
meds prescribed do not carry the same health risks.

OH right, they can only cause kids to kill themselves and may have a
connection to sachizophrenia and other adult mental illness.

Prescribing the wrong meds for a thyroid issue can be just as deadly
as prescribing the wrong heart medication for a person that doesn’t
need it.

Heart meds are prescribed all the time for people who don't need them.
They "play around" with the dosages all the time to fix certain
problems. People may or may not need those drugs.

Maybe you should brush up on thyroid disease and the meds
provide for such diseases before you make anymore ludicrous statement
and embarrass your self further.

Read above again and eat ****.


You are a certifiable idiot. You obviously know nothing about hypo or
hyperthyroidism and what constitutes the disease.

I know all about the business end of medicine and how research funding
works. You are wrong again.


You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that
isn’t there.

Actually, that's what you were setting up to do. I'm calling you on
it.

Yeah okay you are privy to what’s in my head. LOL.

air.


If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive
more funding for research then so be it.

And if inflated numbers help you argue with people on usenet, then who
cares if it is real data or a guess?

You still haven't proven that the numbers are inflated and I wasn’t
arguing, that point seems to escape you constantly.

Doesnt' matter. You posted them. You are a hypocrite. I win.


You got something against
healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet
fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular
affiction.

It is exactly like that, dummy. Guess where much of the R&D money
comes from?

And guess who benefits from the R&D money they spend -

You're still not getting it, are you?

Everyone benefits that’s how it works. Pharmaceuticals make money and
those afflicted with the disease get a cure or a way to control their
affliction.

Pharma makes money. End of story.


If you think it works any other way then you are obviously paranoid
delusional. It matters not the motive.

Ask the dead people who took vioxx, procrit, chantix and a host of
other hastily approved and over indicated drugs if it matters.

You are out of your league talking to me about this.




Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any
thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he?

I don’t know and I don’t care.

So you post questionable information to prove a point on usenet and
admit not caring whether it is completely inaccurate or even
intentionally perverted?

Some integrity you got there.

So you can’t disprove the numbers so you attack the integrity of the
poster and the data provided, how typical of you Jade.
Look at it this way, if integrity was what I was after I would be
dignifying you with a response now would I?

You can't help it. You have to respond to me.


Maybe he just receives grant money from
big pharma, most research facilities do.

And theyare usually pressured to pay it back in new drug patents or in
research data that supports the business. That is the only reason that
grant money is ever given.

So you are saying that all grant supported medical research is
tainted?

Far more of it than you realize is. All depends on where the funding
comes from.


Are you trying to say he has
a hidden agenda?

I don't know, but unlike you, I care to know.

Yeah of course you do. Why don’t you investigate and report back to
me plebe.

Isn’t that what many members of this group have been
suggesting about medical research and the diet industry?

LOLOLOLOL! Jesus ****ing Christ! the monkey and the keyboard axiom
comes to life.

You didn't read my post at all, did you?

Frankly Jade your posts get so predictable that reading them becomes
a matter of wading through bull**** and never getting anything
conclusive.

Admission you didn't read it noted.


Again you
seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as
real hard facts.

Nope. Your protobrain once again imported thoughts that never appeared
on usenet.

Please reread what I posted. You will look far less like a fool next
time you respond to me.

Then what is your point you mean you haven’t been attacking me for
posting unverifiable data and claiming it is for real?

That is correct. I never said you claimed it was real. If you were not
an illiterate moron you would get that.

Did you spew so
much bull**** that you forget your own argument? LOL.

Nope, but you do explode so specatacularly.



That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more
common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to
promote it as evidence of something.

I guess any info that fits your agenda, right?

Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100%
factual. Show me where I made that claim.

You presented the estimates as evidence, Ragnar. You felt that they
proved there was a possibility of massive thyroid epidemics or you
would not have posted them. People don't post things they think are
wrong in an argument, even people as stupid as you.

I never said the number were right or wrong. I only wanted to
illustrate that the 1 in a million figure posted by “always learning”
was in all likelihood a trolls fabrication much like your current
argument.
So you think the numbers are bogus? Well they could very well be but
don’t make assumptions on what I think they are. I’ve already stated
that they may or may not be true but one thing is certain the numbers
are a lot higher than 1 in a million as “always learning” was trying
to claim.
Since you claim to be so concerned why don’t you counter those
supposedly bogus numbers with the real data? I would also like to see
it.

My own stance on this issue has never been one of absolutes as you
have claimed it is. I’m still waiting for you to show me where I came
out and endorsed the quoted numbers as 100% factual. I would suspect
that even a bright bulb like you would be hard pressed to prove that.

Nice rant!




Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go
undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to
verify.

No ****. That's why making an estimate that one in six people has one
is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Doing a good job here tearing apart your
own post. Do you still think that the good Dr's estimate is a viable
possiblity?

Idiot, since you claim the numbers are essentially unverifiable then
claiming a 1 in 6 ratio is a possibility until disproved with provable
data. I don’t really care how ridiculous it looks to you. Prove the
numbers wrong then open your maw.

Yes. More anger. I do enjoy your anger.


Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be
present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being
noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever
picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves
readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be
affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as
supposition.

Nobody knows. Yet you posted it as though it meant something.

So did the doctor that claims the numbers to be true. I still haven’t
seen anything out of you to the contrary other than your arguably
unqualified opinion.

That's because I only had to point out your hypocrisy to be right.
Making fun of the Dr's claim here is just gravy.



Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an
argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here.

oops. Guess you got me there. lol

I’m glad we can agree ****stick. Now run along and find the
supportable contrary data that you are so concerned about before I am
forced to kick you in that rotten **** of yours again.

Victolly for Ragnar the Stupid!!!! LOL!


hypocrite.

Hypocrite? Do you even know the meaning of the word?


You wrote it below:

Ragnar


Thanks for playing!

Jade

On Apr 22, 11:00 am, Daedalus wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar
3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry,
there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism..

Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo
Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million
people would be hypothyroid.

The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely
far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million
people.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...awareness..htm

Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of
thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it
could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not
saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does
seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would
believe.

Ragnar

Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and
hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of
any information on obesity given by the medical community at large,
would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid
disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in
general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they
can uncover.

Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never
spoke in absolutes.

You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If
someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will
die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet
industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you
could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting
something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility.
Hy-Po-Crite.

You missed the entire point asswipe; I only presented some an article
that may have shed some light on what a poster was questioning.

We've only gone through that several times now. Stop whining that I'm
the one missing the point when you clearly can't ****ing understand
simple English.

Right, we have gone through it several times and I still don’t
understand why you don’t get it.

The
“always learning” stated something to the effect that thyroid
disorders only affect 1 in a million people. I present some numbers
that contradicted his or her ludicrous claims. I never presented them
as completely undeniably factual.

NO ****. See above, illiterate moron.

No meaningful response noted.

Do you have supportable numbers to
the contrary, I’d love to see them?

Why would I? See above, illiterate moron.

No meaningful response noted.


Besides dumbass show me where I ever pitched a fit over cancer rates
and a supposed correlation to obesity.

OMFG are you stupid. bwahahahaha! Reread the post, illiterate moron.
Pay special attention to the word "if"

Okay, have it your way. “if” that makes your whole argument
supposition. You’re good at that aren’t you?
****ing moron, how does your foot feel with that bullet hole in it?


People post inflammatory
articles that at times even contradict each other and you rarely see
me making statement as you claim I do. You obviously are still fishing
for an argument. Is your life that lacking for entertainment? You
pathetic piece of ****. What’s the matter you ugly slob? Still can’t
get laid on the weekends?

Calm down, Ragnar. Remember your heart.

Hold on tight to the fantasy that I'm unattractive and sexless. It
clearly makes you feel better.

Fantasy???


Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is
you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting
tiresome.

Hypocrite

Idiot

My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected
by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid
issues and obesity.

I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly
where this discussion was headed however.

Okay, now Jade can read minds. Got anymore tricks for us dumbass?
HEY EVERYBODY JADES SHOWING OFF HER POWERS OF CLAIRVOYANCE! COME SEE
THE SHOW!
What’s next, communication with the dead?

I love it when you get hysterical. Where did I say I read your mind,
illiterate moron?

You were the one that claimed that you had some knowledge of where my
argument was headed. That would imply you could read my mind and
intentions. The ignorant statement is right there for all to see so
don’t play dumb.

Oh I forgot you aren’t playing.



You really are a presumptuous ass.

Taking flaming lessons from Bobbi, I see.

I guess you see her hand in everything. After all she is your
passion.


If you go back and read I only suggested that the
number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and
never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in
fact hard data.

But it is a viable possiblity in your mind, because this one fits your
agenda.

Viable or not, it is a possibility just like it might not be. I can’t
say for certain, nor can you. But you do seem to think that the
numbers are bogus so why don’t you set me straight and produce some
more accurate numbers that are verifiable.

I don't need to. That wasn't the point. The point was you posted them,
making you a hypocrite. I already win. Keep throwing your temper
tantrum though.

You still haven’t proven the Hypocrite claim. I’ve asked for proof
but you seem to constantly dance around the question. Perhaps you
don’t really know what a hypocrite actually is?

BTW calling me a hypocrite for posting allegedly false data doesn’t
make it true until you dispute what I have written. So far we are
still waiting.


In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only
suggests that the numbers quoted could be real.

Not only that. They go on to ridiculously state that the numbers could
only be real if they changed the definition of what a thyroid disorder
was.

The article suggests lowering the upper limit of the TSH test from .
05 to 5 down to .03 to 3 as recommended by the American Association of
Clinical Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical
Biochemistry.

The people that would make money off of it.

"Knowledgeable doctors know that a TSH of around 1 - 2 --- in the low
end of the normal range -- is the normal level for people without
thyroid disease, and they aim for this range in treating thyroid
patients. Keep in mind that a doctor telling you your TSH is "fine" is
not enough, because if your doctor is using the standard normal range
of .5 to 5 , you could have a TSH of 4 and be told that you are
"normal." (Note, some doctors are following a new, recommended TSH
range of 0.3 to 3.0). In my own situation, I know I feel terrible at a
TSH of 3.0 or above, and I get hyperthyroid symptoms at .1, but I feel
well at around 1.5 or so. (NOTE: this TSH is usually kept even lower
than 1-2 for thyroid cancer survivors to help prevent recurrence.)"
http://thyroid.about.com/od/hypothyr.../tshnormal.htm

Treating people with thyroid disease is a balancing act that a one
size fits all approach cannot be used. Lowering the threshold numbers
is for the benefit of those that may seem to have normal levels but
still exhibit symptoms. This is not an uncommon phenomenon when
dealing with thyroid issues. It’s amazing that where normal
intelligent people see an advantage in helping people lead better and
more healthful lives, a pig like you sees profiteering.

Your ignorance on this subject disqualifies you from any further
serious discussion.

But it doesn’t give a reason why. So commenting on that
is irrelevant.
You have no clue regarding the reasoning behind the
testing threshold so you are not qualified to dispute it.

I have firsthand knowledge about the pharma industry and research
funding. I guarantee you I know a lot more about it than you do.

“First hand knowledge” BWAHAHAHAHAH. That’s the best claim by you to
date. Try again you unemployed loser.

Well I take that back. You probably did have a job attached to the
pharmaceutical industry at one time but got caned for ****ing around
on Usenet all day.


I clearly understood this when I wrote my post which you did not get
at all.

More of Jade’s circle jerk bull**** noted. You clearly recognized
nothing of the sort in your pitiful attempt at an argument.

IKYABWAI!

No meaningful response noted.

I any event doctors
will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is
afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating
the numbers.

Are you serious?

Yes very, a miss or false diagnosis of thyroid disease can lead to
serious health complications or even death. No competent doctor would
take that kind of chance, so providing inflated study numbers
translates to nothing in the real world.

You know nothing and are very wrong here.

No meaningful response noted.
You can’t prescribe lower dosages for thyroid issues the level of meds
must match what the body requires to function. Do you even know how a
thyroid works?


Do you think that suddenly people are just going to
willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they
don’t have?

Of course they are. It happens all the time. That's how the ADD
industry came to be a booming business.

It makes it much easier when they change the definition of thyroid
problems.

ADHD and thyroid are very different issues.

So are hairloss and the ****ing clap. Pharma industry works the same
across the board.

Thank you captain obvious.

Diagnosing thyroid
disease requires lab blood analysis and as I stated before a
misdiagnosis of a thyroid issue can lead to serious health
consequences VERY rapidly. In other words provide a bad diagnosis and
prescribe the wrong meds and the patient can die.

It isn't about the WRONG meds. It is about a certain kind of meds and
getting the FDA to approve use of lower dosages. Again, you are
talking to someone who knows first hand about how the pharma industry
works. You clearly know nothing.

Again you are missing the point. And don’t wave you bull****
qualifications around.
While some medications can be over-prescribed with little of no
detrimental effects you can’t do it with all meds across the board
without serious repercussions. Thyroid meds happen to be the type if
over-prescribed will lead to major health problems. YOU clearly have
no idea what you are talking about and are trying to confuse the issue
with your pseudo expertise bull****.

While ADHD only
requires sociological profiling of the suspected individual and the
meds prescribed do not carry the same health risks.

OH right, they can only cause kids to kill themselves and may have a
connection to sachizophrenia and other adult mental illness.

Bull**** child worship noted.
Again you shoot your own argument down with your own words “may have a
connection” Do you know what the word “may: means dumb ass?
The difference is that doctors know what the risks are if thyroid meds
are over-prescribed.

Prescribing the wrong meds for a thyroid issue can be just as deadly
as prescribing the wrong heart medication for a person that doesn’t
need it.

Heart meds are prescribed all the time for people who don't need them.
They "play around" with the dosages all the time to fix certain
problems. People may or may not need those drugs.

Jade’s brand of circle talk noted
Not only is it circler bull****, it has to be the dumbest statement
you’ve uttered to date.
Why would a doctor prescribe a med if the patient DIDN’T have a
“certain problem” that needed fixing? By implying that there is a
problem you have justified the need to prescribe a medication you
****ing moron.

Competent doctors don’t prescribe heart meds for people that don’t
have some kind of need.

Do I have to rub your face in your own stupidity time and time again?
Do you enjoy being humiliated like this?

Maybe you should brush up on thyroid disease and the meds
provide for such diseases before you make anymore ludicrous statement
and embarrass your self further.

Read above again and eat ****.

Don't bother reading because you don't understand, just eat the ****
and shut the **** up.


You are a certifiable idiot. You obviously know nothing about hypo or
hyperthyroidism and what constitutes the disease.

I know all about the business end of medicine and how research funding
works. You are wrong again.

Proof? I suspect, like everything you say the above statement is
bull**** as well.


You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that
isn’t there.

Actually, that's what you were setting up to do. I'm calling you on
it.

Yeah okay you are privy to what’s in my head. LOL.

air.

But unlike you it's not hot.


If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive
more funding for research then so be it.

And if inflated numbers help you argue with people on usenet, then who
cares if it is real data or a guess?

You still haven't proven that the numbers are inflated and I wasn’t
arguing, that point seems to escape you constantly.

Doesnt' matter. You posted them. You are a hypocrite. I win.

I'm glad you are happy in your own little world.

BTW, No meaningful response noted.


You got something against
healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet
fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular
affiction.

It is exactly like that, dummy. Guess where much of the R&D money
comes from?

And guess who benefits from the R&D money they spend -

You're still not getting it, are you?

You're still missing the point aren't you?

Everyone benefits that’s how it works. Pharmaceuticals make money and
those afflicted with the disease get a cure or a way to control their
affliction.

Pharma makes money. End of story.

Isn't that what they are in business for?


If you think it works any other way then you are obviously paranoid
delusional. It matters not the motive.

Ask the dead people who took vioxx, procrit, chantix and a host of
other hastily approved and over indicated drugs if it matters.

More emotional crap noted. Jade you really are reaching.

You are out of your league talking to me about this.

Oh yeah you've proven that one PFFFFFT lol.


Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any
thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he?

I don’t know and I don’t care.

So you post questionable information to prove a point on usenet and
admit not caring whether it is completely inaccurate or even
intentionally perverted?

Some integrity you got there.

So you can’t disprove the numbers so you attack the integrity of the
poster and the data provided, how typical of you Jade.
Look at it this way, if integrity was what I was after I would be
dignifying you with a response now would I?

You can't help it. You have to respond to me.

You're stupidity is entertaining I will admit.


Maybe he just receives grant money from
big pharma, most research facilities do.

And theyare usually pressured to pay it back in new drug patents or in
research data that supports the business. That is the only reason that
grant money is ever given.

So you are saying that all grant supported medical research is
tainted?

Far more of it than you realize is. All depends on where the funding
comes from.

No doubt.


Are you trying to say he has
a hidden agenda?

I don't know, but unlike you, I care to know.

Yeah of course you do. Why don’t you investigate and report back to
me plebe.

Isn’t that what many members of this group have been
suggesting about medical research and the diet industry?

LOLOLOLOL! Jesus ****ing Christ! the monkey and the keyboard axiom
comes to life.

You didn't read my post at all, did you?

No meaningful response noted.

Frankly Jade your posts get so predictable that reading them becomes
a matter of wading through bull**** and never getting anything
conclusive.

Admission you didn't read it noted.

No meaningful response noted.


Again you
seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as
real hard facts.

Nope. Your protobrain once again imported thoughts that never appeared
on usenet.

Please reread what I posted. You will look far less like a fool next
time you respond to me.

Then what is your point you mean you haven’t been attacking me for
posting unverifiable data and claiming it is for real?

That is correct. I never said you claimed it was real. If you were not
an illiterate moron you would get that.

So you have no point to this argument afterall. Thank you for
admitting it.

Did you spew so
much bull**** that you forget your own argument? LOL.

Nope, but you do explode so specatacularly.

No meaningful response noted.


That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more
common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to
promote it as evidence of something.

I guess any info that fits your agenda, right?

Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100%
factual. Show me where I made that claim.

You presented the estimates as evidence, Ragnar. You felt that they
proved there was a possibility of massive thyroid epidemics or you
would not have posted them. People don't post things they think are
wrong in an argument, even people as stupid as you.

I never said the number were right or wrong. I only wanted to
illustrate that the 1 in a million figure posted by “always learning”
was in all likelihood a trolls fabrication much like your current
argument.
So you think the numbers are bogus? Well they could very well be but
don’t make assumptions on what I think they are. I’ve already stated
that they may or may not be true but one thing is certain the numbers
are a lot higher than 1 in a million as “always learning” was trying
to claim.
Since you claim to be so concerned why don’t you counter those
supposedly bogus numbers with the real data? I would also like to see
it.

My own stance on this issue has never been one of absolutes as you
have claimed it is. I’m still waiting for you to show me where I came
out and endorsed the quoted numbers as 100% factual. I would suspect
that even a bright bulb like you would be hard pressed to prove that.

Nice rant!

Thank you
BTW, No meaningful response noted.


Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go
undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to
verify.

No ****. That's why making an estimate that one in six people has one
is pretty ****ing ridiculous. Doing a good job here tearing apart your
own post. Do you still think that the good Dr's estimate is a viable
possiblity?

Idiot, since you claim the numbers are essentially unverifiable then
claiming a 1 in 6 ratio is a possibility until disproved with provable
data. I don’t really care how ridiculous it looks to you. Prove the
numbers wrong then open your maw.

Yes. More anger. I do enjoy your anger.

Funny, you've never seen me angry.


Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be
present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being
noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever
picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves
readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be
affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as
supposition.

Nobody knows. Yet you posted it as though it meant something.

So did the doctor that claims the numbers to be true. I still haven’t
seen anything out of you to the contrary other than your arguably
unqualified opinion.

That's because I only had to point out your hypocrisy to be right.
Making fun of the Dr's claim here is just gravy.

Dream on. The hyprocrisy part is still hanging.


Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an
argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here.

oops. Guess you got me there. lol

I’m glad we can agree ****stick. Now run along and find the
supportable contrary data that you are so concerned about before I am
forced to kick you in that rotten **** of yours again.

Victolly for Ragnar the Stupid!!!! LOL!

No meaningful response noted. AGAIN.


hypocrite.

Hypocrite? Do you even know the meaning of the word?

You wrote it below:

Ragnar

Thanks for playing!

And thank you for being such a gracious target.

Ragnar

You can bring your thyroid back with coconut oil and avoiding PUFAs.
I think there is an anecdotal example of woman who lost weight and got
pregnant at the age of 45 after switching to coconut oil at the
raypeat.com site.

Taka

Ragnar wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:04 pm, Daedalus wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar





wrote:
On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote
this stuff here :
Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price
wrote this stuff here :
Naughty Boy wrote:
Tiger_Lily wrote in
:
Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
:
Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
m:
Naughty Boy wrote:
WaCoder wrote in
:
Pete wrote:
Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you...
What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese,
i mean...
Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid.
This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted
statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat"
with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of
hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But
just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away
with it. For shame....
Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race
they were born. Fat people do it to themselves.
Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you
for the straight dope?
How else do fat people get fat?
Certainly not by being lazy or stupid.
What theories do you have? let's hear them!
untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add
thyroid meds to diabetes meds
is that good enough for you?
kate
The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take
for that one to come up.
What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? I can't
imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public.
For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid
condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do
not exercise.
i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment
look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon
at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30
years ago
ok, back to you on your high horse
kate
I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
"1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders,
although more than half remain undiagnosed."
This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual
number of people affected.
According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology,
Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the
upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to
3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry,
there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism.
Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo
Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million
people would be hypothyroid.
The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely
far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million
people.
http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm
Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of
thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it
could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not
saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does
seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would
believe.
Ragnar
Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and
hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of
any information on obesity given by the medical community at large,
would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid
disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in
general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they
can uncover.

Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never
spoke in absolutes. Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is
you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting
tiresome.
My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected
by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid
issues and obesity. If you go back and read I only suggested that the
number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and
never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in
fact hard data.
In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only
suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. I any event doctors
will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is
afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating
the numbers. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to
willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they
don’t have? You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that
isn’t there.
If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive
more funding for research then so be it. You got something against
healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet
fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular
affiction.

Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any
thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he?

I don’t know and I don’t care. Maybe he just receives grant money from
big pharma, most research facilities do. Are you trying to say he has
a hidden agenda? Isn’t that what many members of this group have been
suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? Again you
seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as
real hard facts.

That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more
common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to
promote it as evidence of something.

I guess any info that fits your agenda, right?

Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100%
factual. Show me where I made that claim.

Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go
undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to
verify. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be
present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being
noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever
picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves
readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be
affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as
supposition.

Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an
argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here.

Ragnar

Endocrinology often isn't cut-and-dry. There are some conditions which
show up clearly (like tumors on organs, visibly abnormal tissue
biopsies, and far out-of-range lab results), and others which have to be
defined by complicated lists of criteria, and for which borderline cases
far outnumber obvious ones, so deciding on those criteria can be a very
tricky business.


(I was going to compliment you on providing the figures, Ragnar, but
seeing you call somebody "bitch," "dumbass," "stupid fool," "moron," and
so on has made me reconsider!)


--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

Daedalus wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:10:43 +0000, The Master
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Daedalus wrote:

"1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders,
although more than half remain undiagnosed."
You missed the point, dip****, or rather you're avoiding it. If
someone posted an AMA article "estimating" that 50% of fat people will
die early from cancer, you'd be pitching a fit over the diet
industry's ownership of the medical community and any other reason you
could think of to doubt the truth of it. Yet here you are posting
something equally questionable and calling it a viable possibility.
Hy-Po-Crite.
How many people are diagnosed with hypothyroid? Rather then using the 49
million "revised estimate", is the 27 million by "current standard"
accepted? If we assume the real value is 20 million, and only half are
diagnosed, that would be 10 million have been diagnosed. Is that about
correct? 10 million diagnosed, assuming a 50/50 split for hypo vrs hyper,
that leaves 5 million diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Is that a figure
that is agreed upon?

I don't know. My argument here is only that Ragnar is a hypocrite.

My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected
by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid
issues and obesity.
I never said you were relating it. See above. That is undoubtedly
where this discussion was headed however.
Well, someone that shall remain nameless has said that the ratio of
hypothiroidism to normal is 1 out of 1 million. So, doing the math... 5
million americans with hypo, times the 1 million ratio... That would
require the United States Population to be 5 trillion. What's the
population of the United States again? For that matter, what's the
population of the entire world?

I do believe the 1:1 million ratio is a tad off.


1 in a million is a ridiculous figure if taken literally. I think the
poster who said that figuratively meant that people who were obese due
to thyroid problems were very rare. I would agree with that.

My point, once again, was that Ragnar tried to rebut the poster with
specious medical claims when he has a history of railing against what
he considers to be specious medical claims.

Jade

For what it's worth, I've seen quite plausible arguments that estimates
of the incidence of schizophrenia in the general population ought to be
85% (rather than about 5%), based on identifiable symptoms and sound
statistics.

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c

On Apr 21, 1:03*pm, Ragnar wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:04*pm, Daedalus wrote:



On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar

wrote:
On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote
this stuff here :

Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price
wrote this stuff here :

Naughty Boy wrote:
Tiger_Lily wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com:

Naughty Boy wrote:
WaCoder wrote in
:

Pete wrote:
Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you...
What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese,
i mean...

Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid.
This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted
statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat"
with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of
hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But
just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away
with it. For shame....
Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race
they were born. Fat people do it to themselves.
Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you
for the straight dope?
How else do fat people get fat?

Certainly not by being lazy or stupid.

What theories do you have? let's hear them!

untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add
thyroid meds to diabetes meds

is that good enough for you?

kate
The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take
for that one to come up.

What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? *I can't
imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public.

For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid
condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do
not exercise.

i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment

look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon

at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30
years ago

ok, back to you on your high horse

kate

I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders,
although more than half remain undiagnosed."
This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual
number of people affected.
According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology,
Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the
upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to
3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry,
there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo
Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million
people would be hypothyroid.

The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely
far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million
people.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm

Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of
thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it
could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not
saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does
seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would
believe.

Ragnar

Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and
hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of
any information on obesity given by the medical community at large,
would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid
disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in
general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they
can uncover.

Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never
spoke in absolutes. Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is
you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting
tiresome.
My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected
by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid
issues and obesity. If you go back and read I only suggested that the
number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and
never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in
fact hard data.
In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only
suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. I any event doctors
will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is
afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating
the numbers. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to
willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they
don’t have? You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that
isn’t there.
If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive
more funding for research then so be it. You got something against
healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet
fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular
affiction.

* Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he?

I don’t know and I don’t care. Maybe he just receives grant money from
big pharma, most research facilities do. Are you trying to say he has
a hidden agenda? Isn’t that what many members of this group have been
suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? Again you
seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as
real hard facts.

That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more
common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to
promote it as evidence of something.

I guess any info that fits your agenda, right?

Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100%
factual. Show me where I made that claim.

Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go
undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to
verify. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be
present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being
noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever
picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves
readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be
affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as
supposition.

Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an
argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here.

Ragnar- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ragnar, you must not pay any attention to Deadanus, jade, no matter
what you say to her, in your eyes you are wrong. she just know it all.
jenius

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 04:33:16 -0700 (PDT), jenius
wrote:

On Apr 21, 1:03*pm, Ragnar wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:04*pm, Daedalus wrote:



On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Ragnar

wrote:
On Apr 18, 12:33 pm, Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:55:13 -0600, Tiger_Lily wrote
this stuff here :

Always Learning wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:25:25 -0400, Marshall Price
wrote this stuff here :

Naughty Boy wrote:
Tiger_Lily wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
:

Naughty Boy wrote:
Marshall Price wrote in
news:Z7qdnWpVRfQX9WranZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@eart hlink.com:

Naughty Boy wrote:
WaCoder wrote in
:

Pete wrote:
Today, i would like to discuss fat people with all of you...
What do we know about fat people? Other than that they are obese,
i mean...

Generally speaking, fat people are lazy and stupid.
This is the most insulting, uninformed, prejudiced, bigoted
statement I have ever heard in my life. If you had replaced "fat"
with "black" or "Mexican", you would have been dismissed out of
hand as a bigot, racist, stupid and not worth the time of day. But
just because you're bashing fat ppl, you think you can get away
with it. For shame....
Not really. Black or Mexican people had no choice as to what race
they were born. Fat people do it to themselves.
Is that how bariatricians explain it, or do we have to rely on you
for the straight dope?
How else do fat people get fat?

Certainly not by being lazy or stupid.

What theories do you have? let's hear them!

untreated hypothyroid for 3 years because my GP didn't want to add
thyroid meds to diabetes meds

is that good enough for you?

kate
The old "thyroid" bull**** excuse. I was wondering how long it would take
for that one to come up.

What makes you presume to imply thyroid diseases don't exist? *I can't
imagine why you want to flaunt such ignorance in public.

For every one million fatasses their might be ONE with some thyroid
condition. Most fattys are fat because they eat too much food and do
not exercise.

i lost 30 lbs in the first 3 mo of synthroid treatment

look up Hashimoto's and i hope YOU don't have to deal with this soon

at 5'6" i have weighed 125 lbs since high school........... over 30
years ago

ok, back to you on your high horse

kate

I noticed you didn't deny it's probably 1 in 1 million.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"1.) Up to 27 million Americans may be affected by thyroid disorders,
although more than half remain undiagnosed."
This number may actually be a substantial underestimate of the actual
number of people affected.
According to Vahab Fatourechi, MD, of the Division of Endocrinology,
Diabetes, Metabolism and Nutrition at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, if the
upper limit of normal range of the TSH test were reduced from 5.0 to
3.0, as recommended by the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists and the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry,
there would be a 3-fold increase in the diagnosis of hypothyroidism.

Dr. Fatourechi's estimates, which were reported in the Mayo
Endocrinology Update, mean that an additional 22 million to 28 million
people would be hypothyroid.

The actual number of people with thyroid disease, therefore, is likely
far higher, falling somewhere in the range of 49 million to 55 million
people.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/publicaw...7awareness.htm

Possibly 49 to 55 million people are affected with some form of
thyroid disease in the US alone. So out of 300 million in the US it
could be approx. 20%. of the population could be affected. I'm not
saying everyone with a weight issue has a thyroid problem but it does
seem that there could be a lot more of them out there than one would
believe.

Ragnar

Just going from the part you quoted above, I find it ignorant and
hypocritical that you, a person who always seems to be suspicious of
any information on obesity given by the medical community at large,
would be wholeheartedly accepting an admitted guess about thyroid
disorders from a group of people (Mayo Clinic and Endocrinologists in
general) who stand to make more money the more thyroid problems they
can uncover.

Jade I was only commenting on what might or might not be. I never
spoke in absolutes. Please re-read. The only thing ignorant here is
you bitch. Your continuous running off at the mouth is getting
tiresome.
My comment was directed toward the possible number of those affected
by some form of thyroid disorder not the correlation between thyroid
issues and obesity. If you go back and read I only suggested that the
number of obese people COULD be affected with thyroid disease and
never made any claims that the numbers claimed in the article were in
fact hard data.
In fact I do believe that the article itself states as such and only
suggests that the numbers quoted could be real. I any event doctors
will not treat someone for thyroid issues unless the patient is
afflicted with thyroid disease so how can anyone profit from inflating
the numbers. Do you think that suddenly people are just going to
willingly go to their physician and get treated for diseases they
don’t have? You’re an idiot and stop fishing for an argument that
isn’t there.
If the Mayo Clinic is trying to inflate numbers in order to receive
more funding for research then so be it. You got something against
healthcare R&D? It not like they are trying to push the latest diet
fad or inflate the number of deaths attributed to a perticular
affiction.

* Dr. Fatourechi wouldn't happen to be on the advisory board of any thyroid treatment producing pharmaceutical companies, would he?

I don’t know and I don’t care. Maybe he just receives grant money from
big pharma, most research facilities do. Are you trying to say he has
a hidden agenda? Isn’t that what many members of this group have been
suggesting about medical research and the diet industry? Again you
seem to be laboring under the idea that I’m pushing his numbers as
real hard facts.

That is an outlandish figure that would make thyroid problems more
common than colds and it is an admitted estimate, yet you choose to
promote it as evidence of something.

I guess any info that fits your agenda, right?

Wrong as usual dumbass, I never claimed his numbers to be 100%
factual. Show me where I made that claim.

Besides you stupid fool, some forms of thyroid disease can go
undiagnosed for years in individuals so real numbers are difficult to
verify. Minor elevated or decreased levels of thyroid hormone can be
present in people without physical symptoms of the disease being
noticeable. My wife had thyroid issues for years and no one ever
picked up on it because the symptoms didn’t manifest themselves
readily. That being the case who really knows how many people could be
affected and any proposed number can only be looked at as
supposition.

Does that sound like an agenda building case to you moron? Look for an
argument elsewhere, you failed at finding one here.

Ragnar- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ragnar, you must not pay any attention to Deadanus, jade, no matter
what you say to her, in your eyes you are wrong. she just know it all.
jenius

Oh how I must have hurt you. Can you tell me what it was specifically?

Jade