Child Information

LCer09 wrote:

Sorry, but those don't sound all that bad to me. You wouldn't suggest
giving a child low-fat milk would you?

My son's pediatrician recommended low-fat milk when my son was little. He
said you definitely don't want to give your kids skim milk, but that the 1%
or 2% milk is far closer to the fat composition of human breast milk.
--
Debbie

camilla wrote:
| WOW Thank you all for the repliees. I am not real sure how I can
| possibly respond to all the posts.
| I feeel like I should have given a little more information. My
| daughter is 4'6 and she weighs 101 pounds. Maybe she is more
| overweight than I said before. Maybe less. I only guessed on how
| much. She is nt as active as she needs to be. We are working on
| that. She just learned (July 4) to ride her bike without the training
| wheels! We are now walking the dogs on a leash instead of
| letting them out the back door to run in the yard. We spend more time
| in the pool SWIMMING instead of floating on floatation devices. We
| really are trying!
| Why is my daughter so fat? Hhhmmm only one answer to that. Wrong
| food choices such as buffalo chicken wings, cheeseburgers, shrimp,
| pasta, and her whole milk, These are all her favorites. She does
| over eat, and has been inactive for to long. Do I feel guilty? Of
| course! Do I feel like a bad mom? NO! I love my children and I try
| hard to be a great mom.
| Thanks again for all the information and your thoughts and advice.
| Some replies were wonderful and helpful and others were a little harsh
| but I appreciate them all the same. This was a difficult decision for
| us to make but our daughter is happy about it and I am thrilled about
| that.


Camilla, I really hope my comments didn't offend; I'm sorry if I was too
direct.

What I didn't say is, this issue hit a bit too close to home for me. My
sister's 11-year old boy was normal height/weight until a year or so ago,
when he began to gain rapidly. He is extremely obese for his age and height
now. It's so frustrating to me to watch what she is doing to him.

The child has his own cupboard this is stocked with every kind of candy,
cookies, snacks, hips, cakes, etc. --- whatever he wants or points to when
they are grocery shopping, He helps himself whenever he wants. The only
cereal is frosted or chocolate this or that. He also gives her a menu for
every meal, and she fixes exactly whatever he wants. Usually it's macaroni
and cheese out of a box or something like that, followed by more junk food.
He gets no exercise and rarely goes outdoors. I could go on an on, but you
get the idea. When I've tried to gently suggest that he eat healthier
foods, she takes it personally and goes into a rage. She says she is not
going to "deprive" him of what he likes, and that he'll outgrow it. She
claims her doctor says his weight gain is just a "stage" and that he'll
ougrow it, although I would be a years salary that she doesn't tell him the
whole situation. I'm very upset because the child is at an age where he's
nearing puberty and unfortunately his weight -- as many of us know -- will
not make him very popular. He has very few friends now, and he is proabably
made fun of in school because of his weight.

I have my own theory. My sister herself is very overweight as well as
diabetic but continues to eat whatever and whenever she wants. I think that
she actually wants the child to be fat so that he will depend on her for his
friendship as well as for all his other emptional support so that she will
have him to herself. (He is completely undisciplined and she calls hm
i"buddy" like he's her best friend). She herself has no friends andI
believe she doesn't want him to either; she wants him all to herself. Yes,
it's sick. Literally. She screams at her husband and treats him like he's
the child, and treats the child as if he's the husband. Yes, she need
psichiatric help. But she would never acknowledget his; thinks she is doing
nothing wrong. She will not even discuss the situation.

Despite the fact that I love both my nephew and my sister, I find myself
avoiding them because I get so stressed out over the situation every time
I'm around them.

I hope that you can see no why I may have over-reacted to the OP. I just
have a real sore spot when it comes to parents not just ignoring -- but
actually abetting -- obesity in their children. It certainly wasn't fair of
me to imply that you might do the same; every one and every situation is
different.

I was also reacting to Carolyn's statement that it is "child abuse" to feed
an obese child a low-carb diet. You can understand why I feel exactly the
opposite.

Consider this Camilla , and please accept my apology for my not-too-nice
post in your thread.

Peter
270/215/180
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/wei...htlosspix.html

camilla wrote:
| WOW Thank you all for the repliees. I am not real sure how I can
| possibly respond to all the posts.
| I feeel like I should have given a little more information. My
| daughter is 4'6 and she weighs 101 pounds. Maybe she is more
| overweight than I said before. Maybe less. I only guessed on how
| much. She is nt as active as she needs to be. We are working on
| that. She just learned (July 4) to ride her bike without the training
| wheels! We are now walking the dogs on a leash instead of
| letting them out the back door to run in the yard. We spend more time
| in the pool SWIMMING instead of floating on floatation devices. We
| really are trying!
| Why is my daughter so fat? Hhhmmm only one answer to that. Wrong
| food choices such as buffalo chicken wings, cheeseburgers, shrimp,
| pasta, and her whole milk, These are all her favorites. She does
| over eat, and has been inactive for to long. Do I feel guilty? Of
| course! Do I feel like a bad mom? NO! I love my children and I try
| hard to be a great mom.
| Thanks again for all the information and your thoughts and advice.
| Some replies were wonderful and helpful and others were a little harsh
| but I appreciate them all the same. This was a difficult decision for
| us to make but our daughter is happy about it and I am thrilled about
| that.


Camilla, I really hope my comments didn't offend; I'm sorry if I was too
direct.

What I didn't say is, this issue hit a bit too close to home for me. My
sister's 11-year old boy was normal height/weight until a year or so ago,
when he began to gain rapidly. He is extremely obese for his age and height
now. It's so frustrating to me to watch what she is doing to him.

The child has his own cupboard this is stocked with every kind of candy,
cookies, snacks, hips, cakes, etc. --- whatever he wants or points to when
they are grocery shopping, He helps himself whenever he wants. The only
cereal is frosted or chocolate this or that. He also gives her a menu for
every meal, and she fixes exactly whatever he wants. Usually it's macaroni
and cheese out of a box or something like that, followed by more junk food.
He gets no exercise and rarely goes outdoors. I could go on an on, but you
get the idea. When I've tried to gently suggest that he eat healthier
foods, she takes it personally and goes into a rage. She says she is not
going to "deprive" him of what he likes, and that he'll outgrow it. She
claims her doctor says his weight gain is just a "stage" and that he'll
ougrow it, although I would be a years salary that she doesn't tell him the
whole situation. I'm very upset because the child is at an age where he's
nearing puberty and unfortunately his weight -- as many of us know -- will
not make him very popular. He has very few friends now, and he is proabably
made fun of in school because of his weight.

I have my own theory. My sister herself is very overweight as well as
diabetic but continues to eat whatever and whenever she wants. I think that
she actually wants the child to be fat so that he will depend on her for his
friendship as well as for all his other emptional support so that she will
have him to herself. (He is completely undisciplined and she calls hm
i"buddy" like he's her best friend). She herself has no friends andI
believe she doesn't want him to either; she wants him all to herself. Yes,
it's sick. Literally. She screams at her husband and treats him like he's
the child, and treats the child as if he's the husband. Yes, she need
psichiatric help. But she would never acknowledget his; thinks she is doing
nothing wrong. She will not even discuss the situation.

Despite the fact that I love both my nephew and my sister, I find myself
avoiding them because I get so stressed out over the situation every time
I'm around them.

I hope that you can see no why I may have over-reacted to the OP. I just
have a real sore spot when it comes to parents not just ignoring -- but
actually abetting -- obesity in their children. It certainly wasn't fair of
me to imply that you might do the same; every one and every situation is
different.

I was also reacting to Carolyn's statement that it is "child abuse" to feed
an obese child a low-carb diet. You can understand why I feel exactly the
opposite.

Consider this Camilla , and please accept my apology for my not-too-nice
post in your thread.

Peter
270/215/180
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/wei...htlosspix.html

This is all fine and dandy, but at 4'6" and 101 lbs, she is at normal
weight, according to adult standard.

She's not an adult. No breasts, no hips, etc. She's a child.

LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/186/140
& hubby- 6' 310/199/180
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

"Debbie Cusick" wrote in message
...
LCer09 wrote:

Sorry, but those don't sound all that bad to me. You wouldn't suggest
giving a child low-fat milk would you?

My son's pediatrician recommended low-fat milk when my son was little. He
said you definitely don't want to give your kids skim milk, but that the
1%
or 2% milk is far closer to the fat composition of human breast milk.
--
Debbie


Rubbish - more than half of the calories in breast milk come from fat. A
baby
needs to grow fast and fat is the best and densest way of getting the
required
energy as they can only take so much volume.

Maybe your doc was talking about colostrum - the foremilk, meant to quench
the babies thirst before the hindmilk comes through. However the hindmilk is
where the babies main nutition comes from.

According to nutitionists, no child should be given reduced fat cows milk
until
they are at least 2 years of age and even then I think switching to reduced
fat is
unnecessary.
Julie

Julie T wrote:
"Debbie Cusick" wrote in message

My son's pediatrician recommended low-fat milk when my son was
little. He said you definitely don't want to give your kids skim
milk, but that the 1% or 2% milk is far closer to the fat
composition of human breast milk.

Rubbish - more than half of the calories in breast milk come from
fat.

Well, not utter rubbish as far as I've been able to google up. For example
at:
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/-583729150.htm it says:
"Fat content in human breast milk is variable during the feed. Initially the
fat content of human milk is low and this rises to about 3% by the end of
the feed."

so it seem that my doctor was correct when he said that whole cow's milk,
which averages about 3.5% fat, has more fat than human breast milk. Back in
those pre-home-computer days I essentially just took his word for it, and 2%
milk does seem to be a fair average for the percentage of fat in breast
milk, since, interestingly enough. it starts out low and then rises up to 3%
by the end of the feed, but never reaches the fat content of whole cow's
milk, which would be uniform throughout, not just at the end of the feed.

Another one of the web sites I saw suggested that this rise to 3% fat at the
end of the feed was a way to induce a sense of satiety in the infant, which
the lower fat milk earlier on did not do, to trigger the end of the feeding.
Based on what I've been reading the charge of "rubbish" seems a bit harsh
and over the top.

But back in 1979 I had no easy way to research the composition of breast
milk, or reason to doubt my doctor. I stopped breastfeeding my son when he
was 10 months old, and then switched him to 2% milk. He is now 25 and in law
school, and drinking 2% milk certainly does not seem to have hurt him any.
:-)
--
Debbie

Julie T wrote:
"Debbie Cusick" wrote in message

My son's pediatrician recommended low-fat milk when my son was
little. He said you definitely don't want to give your kids skim
milk, but that the 1% or 2% milk is far closer to the fat
composition of human breast milk.

Rubbish - more than half of the calories in breast milk come from
fat.

Well, not utter rubbish as far as I've been able to google up. For example
at:
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/-583729150.htm it says:
"Fat content in human breast milk is variable during the feed. Initially the
fat content of human milk is low and this rises to about 3% by the end of
the feed."

so it seem that my doctor was correct when he said that whole cow's milk,
which averages about 3.5% fat, has more fat than human breast milk. Back in
those pre-home-computer days I essentially just took his word for it, and 2%
milk does seem to be a fair average for the percentage of fat in breast
milk, since, interestingly enough. it starts out low and then rises up to 3%
by the end of the feed, but never reaches the fat content of whole cow's
milk, which would be uniform throughout, not just at the end of the feed.

Another one of the web sites I saw suggested that this rise to 3% fat at the
end of the feed was a way to induce a sense of satiety in the infant, which
the lower fat milk earlier on did not do, to trigger the end of the feeding.
Based on what I've been reading the charge of "rubbish" seems a bit harsh
and over the top.

But back in 1979 I had no easy way to research the composition of breast
milk, or reason to doubt my doctor. I stopped breastfeeding my son when he
was 10 months old, and then switched him to 2% milk. He is now 25 and in law
school, and drinking 2% milk certainly does not seem to have hurt him any.
:-)
--
Debbie

"Debbie Cusick" wrote in message
...
Julie T wrote:
"Debbie Cusick" wrote in message

My son's pediatrician recommended low-fat milk when my son was
little. He said you definitely don't want to give your kids skim
milk, but that the 1% or 2% milk is far closer to the fat
composition of human breast milk.

Rubbish - more than half of the calories in breast milk come from
fat.

Well, not utter rubbish as far as I've been able to google up. For example
at:
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/-583729150.htm it says:
"Fat content in human breast milk is variable during the feed. Initially
the
fat content of human milk is low and this rises to about 3% by the end of
the feed."


Breast milk composition.

From he
http://www.breastfeedingbasics.org/c...om_mature.html

Mature milk is produced from approximately ten days after delivery up until
the termination of the breastfeeding. Mature milk contains:

1.. Energy (750 kcal / liter)

2.. Lipids (38 g / liter) - The main lipids found in human breast milk are
the triacyl-glycerols, phospholipids, and fatty acids including essential
fatty acids. Maternal diet does not affect the amount of fat in milk but
does affect the types of fat. Cholesterol is present in breast milk.

3.. Casein (2.5 g / liter) - protein - Casein or curds are proteins with
low solubility which complex with calcium. These are present in breast milk
in much lower concentration than in cow's milk.

4.. Whey (6.4 g / liter) - protein - the whey proteins are located in the
clear liquid left behind when clotted milk stands. The largest components
are alpha-lactalbumen, lactoferrin, lyzozyme, albumen and immunoglobulins.

5.. Nonprotein Nitrogen is used in amino acid synthesis and includes the
nitrogen in urea, creatine, creatinine, uric acid and ammonia. Peptides,
such as epidermal growth factor, somatomedin - C and insulin are also
present in this fraction. Nucleotides such as cytidine monophosphate are
derived from nucleic acids and play an important role in the immune system
and protein synthesis.

6.. Lactose (70 g / liter) carbohydrate - Lactose is the major
carbohydrate in breast milk. It is composed of galactose and glucose.
Lactose concentration in breast milk increases over the duration of
breastfeeding.
The amount of all of these substances (except lactose) varies with the time
of day of the breast milk production, the woman producing the breast milk,
and whether it is at the beginning or the end of the feeding. Fats and
lipids are particularly high at the end of the feeding (hind milk)

So, of 750 calories per litre, over 300 of them come from the various
lipids - no way is that less than 40% fat. And this is an average over the
whole feed.

Maybe the problem here is that you are including the water content in your
calculations and I am counting only the nutritional parts?

Julie

"Debbie Cusick" wrote in message
...
Julie T wrote:
"Debbie Cusick" wrote in message

My son's pediatrician recommended low-fat milk when my son was
little. He said you definitely don't want to give your kids skim
milk, but that the 1% or 2% milk is far closer to the fat
composition of human breast milk.

Rubbish - more than half of the calories in breast milk come from
fat.

Well, not utter rubbish as far as I've been able to google up. For example
at:
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/-583729150.htm it says:
"Fat content in human breast milk is variable during the feed. Initially
the
fat content of human milk is low and this rises to about 3% by the end of
the feed."


Breast milk composition.

From he
http://www.breastfeedingbasics.org/c...om_mature.html

Mature milk is produced from approximately ten days after delivery up until
the termination of the breastfeeding. Mature milk contains:

1.. Energy (750 kcal / liter)

2.. Lipids (38 g / liter) - The main lipids found in human breast milk are
the triacyl-glycerols, phospholipids, and fatty acids including essential
fatty acids. Maternal diet does not affect the amount of fat in milk but
does affect the types of fat. Cholesterol is present in breast milk.

3.. Casein (2.5 g / liter) - protein - Casein or curds are proteins with
low solubility which complex with calcium. These are present in breast milk
in much lower concentration than in cow's milk.

4.. Whey (6.4 g / liter) - protein - the whey proteins are located in the
clear liquid left behind when clotted milk stands. The largest components
are alpha-lactalbumen, lactoferrin, lyzozyme, albumen and immunoglobulins.

5.. Nonprotein Nitrogen is used in amino acid synthesis and includes the
nitrogen in urea, creatine, creatinine, uric acid and ammonia. Peptides,
such as epidermal growth factor, somatomedin - C and insulin are also
present in this fraction. Nucleotides such as cytidine monophosphate are
derived from nucleic acids and play an important role in the immune system
and protein synthesis.

6.. Lactose (70 g / liter) carbohydrate - Lactose is the major
carbohydrate in breast milk. It is composed of galactose and glucose.
Lactose concentration in breast milk increases over the duration of
breastfeeding.
The amount of all of these substances (except lactose) varies with the time
of day of the breast milk production, the woman producing the breast milk,
and whether it is at the beginning or the end of the feeding. Fats and
lipids are particularly high at the end of the feeding (hind milk)

So, of 750 calories per litre, over 300 of them come from the various
lipids - no way is that less than 40% fat. And this is an average over the
whole feed.

Maybe the problem here is that you are including the water content in your
calculations and I am counting only the nutritional parts?

Julie

Julie T wrote:

Maybe the problem here is that you are including the water content in
your calculations and I am counting only the nutritional parts?

Well I'm not sure but we surely seem to be counting different things.
http://www.annecollins.com/calories/calories-milk.htm gives the caloric
breakdown of different types of milk. Whole milk, which averages about 3.5%
fat content, has 150 calories, and 8g of fat, so roughly 72 of those 150
calories, or 48% of the calories, come from fat.

2% milk has 120 calories a cup, and 5g of fat - so 45 calories of the 120
come from fat, or 37.5% of the calories.

--
Debbie