Did you see the diet comparisons?

On Mar 14, 8:19 pm, Chris Braun wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:03:58 -0500, "LFM"
wrote:



wrote in message
roups.com...

To me, the choice was clear. I want FOOD. Someone could try and make a
point that fat (or protein) might be more filling, or stay with you
longer, or curb appetite. All I know is there is a difference of
opinion on that. Although Atkins might have better results at 10
months, I would go for the high carb Ornish diet and MORE FOOD. Not
even close. dkw

Forgive me here, but I've never looked into the Ornish diet. What would a
typical dinner consist of?

Butting in here, as I'm not the one who posted about this originally:
Ornish is a virtually fat-free diet. Hence it's vegetarian. Only
fat-free dairy is permitted. I think pretty much the only fats
considered acceptable are those occurring naturally in fruits and
veggies. I'm not sure about the low levels of fats that are generally
found in bread and such.

As I understand it, Ornish initially published this more as a strategy
for heart health; weight loss is a side effect, in general. A close
friend of mine did it for about a year due to a desire to try to lower
his cholesterol without drugs, but ultimately couldn't stick with it
because it's so restrictive. He did lose a fair bit of weight, though
that wasn't his reason for doing it. It also lowered his cholesterol
some, but not really enough. This was several years ago -- now he has
gained back the weight and gone on Lipitor :-(.

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

"Restrictive" must be in the eye and mouth of the beholder, because I
don't find it restrictive. I love the foods that I can eat on
it...cereals like farina, grits, oatmeal, are my favorite thing to
eat. Any vegetables or fruit.

At the back of my mind is the thought of preventing heart disease,
which should be a concern for most people, so lowering cholesterol is
important. I eat NO cholesterol at all, since I am vegetarian. I admit
Ornish would be much easier for a vegetarian, but I think that is
healthier for your weight and heart. Many people look seriously into
Ornish AFTER their first heart attack or bypass surgery. dkw

On Mar 14, 11:03 pm, Chris Braun wrote:
On 14 Mar 2007 21:14:26 -0700, "Caleb" wrote:



On Mar 14, 7:19 pm, Chris Braun wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:03:58 -0500, "LFM"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

To me, the choice was clear. I want FOOD. Someone could try and make a
point that fat (or protein) might be more filling, or stay with you
longer, or curb appetite. All I know is there is a difference of
opinion on that. Although Atkins might have better results at 10
months, I would go for the high carb Ornish diet and MORE FOOD. Not
even close. dkw

Forgive me here, but I've never looked into the Ornish diet. What would a
typical dinner consist of?

Butting in here, as I'm not the one who posted about this originally:
Ornish is a virtually fat-free diet. Hence it's vegetarian. Only
fat-free dairy is permitted. I think pretty much the only fats
considered acceptable are those occurring naturally in fruits and
veggies. I'm not sure about the low levels of fats that are generally
found in bread and such.

As I understand it, Ornish initially published this more as a strategy
for heart health; weight loss is a side effect, in general. A close
friend of mine did it for about a year due to a desire to try to lower
his cholesterol without drugs, but ultimately couldn't stick with it
because it's so restrictive. He did lose a fair bit of weight, though
that wasn't his reason for doing it. It also lowered his cholesterol
some, but not really enough. This was several years ago -- now he has
gained back the weight and gone on Lipitor :-(.

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Apparently the Ornish diet is much like the Pritikin diet and that's
one of the downsides mentioned about Pritikin -- that it was difficult
to stick with. (I'm pretty sure that my vegetarian daughter would have
little difficulty sticking with Ornish or Pritikin -- it's pretty much
her choice now.)

Caleb

I'm recalling another reason my friend stopped doing it: In order to
get enough protein, he was eating quite a lot of legumes, and he began
having a lot of trouble digesting them. That kind of diet isn't easy
on some people's digestive systems.

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

If you eat dairy and or eggs, there is no problem at all getting lots
of protein. I eat 9 egg whites a day in meringues made with Splenda
and drink nonfat, lactose free milk, so I get about 60 gm. of protein
per day, more than adequate. People who are vegan and abstain from
dairy do have a harder time, but they usually rely on soy. I do also
eat a lot of green beans and high fiber. dkw

On Mar 15, 9:02 am, Jo Anne wrote:
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:01:32 GMT, wrote:
No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.

What is unrealistic about eating fresh vegetables every day? I've been
doing it for years. It takes no more time than frozen or canned stuff,
and I find it cheaper.

(I hate canned vegetables, btw.)

Jo Anne

Here, here. In fact, I eat out every day, sometimes twice. I go to
restaurants that have salad bars and eat only that, and whoever I go
with can eat other food. You can always pick up prepared packaged
salads in any supermarket, too. It is simple to eat fresh salads.
People probably think I'm weird, but I like canned green beans. I eat
one, and sometimes two cans per day. Most people prefer frozen. Either
way they are loaded with protein and fiber (based on their very low
calories). dkw

On Mar 14, 10:14 pm, "Caleb" wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:19 pm, Chris Braun wrote:



On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:03:58 -0500, "LFM"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...

To me, the choice was clear. I want FOOD. Someone could try and make a
point that fat (or protein) might be more filling, or stay with you
longer, or curb appetite. All I know is there is a difference of
opinion on that. Although Atkins might have better results at 10
months, I would go for the high carb Ornish diet and MORE FOOD. Not
even close. dkw

Forgive me here, but I've never looked into the Ornish diet. What would a
typical dinner consist of?

Butting in here, as I'm not the one who posted about this originally:
Ornish is a virtually fat-free diet. Hence it's vegetarian. Only
fat-free dairy is permitted. I think pretty much the only fats
considered acceptable are those occurring naturally in fruits and
veggies. I'm not sure about the low levels of fats that are generally
found in bread and such.

As I understand it, Ornish initially published this more as a strategy
for heart health; weight loss is a side effect, in general. A close
friend of mine did it for about a year due to a desire to try to lower
his cholesterol without drugs, but ultimately couldn't stick with it
because it's so restrictive. He did lose a fair bit of weight, though
that wasn't his reason for doing it. It also lowered his cholesterol
some, but not really enough. This was several years ago -- now he has
gained back the weight and gone on Lipitor :-(.

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Apparently the Ornish diet is much like the Pritikin diet and that's
one of the downsides mentioned about Pritikin -- that it was difficult
to stick with. (I'm pretty sure that my vegetarian daughter would have
little difficulty sticking with Ornish or Pritikin -- it's pretty much
her choice now.)

Caleb

It would be difficult to stick with any diet that changed your food
preferences. If you have to eat meat, and feel cheated without it,
Ornish would be difficult. If, like me, you feel cheated without bread
and cereals, and want to avoid fat, Atkins wouldn't work long for you
probably. I'm afraid yo-yo and quitting diets is a part of all of
them. It's why people are overweight in the first place..they have a
hard time not overeating. dkw

"Jo Anne" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:01:32 GMT, wrote:


No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.

What is unrealistic about eating fresh vegetables every day? I've been
doing it for years. It takes no more time than frozen or canned stuff,
and I find it cheaper.

(I hate canned vegetables, btw.)

Jo Anne


It depends on where you live. There are many months of the year when I have
to depend on frozen because the fresh stuff is too expensive (way out of
season) or half rotted before it even hits the store (again, way out of
season and travelling long distance). The driving distance in rural areas
for a grocery store can be prohibitive to do more than a weekly visit - and
not all fresh things last a week.
--
the volleyballchick

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:01:32 GMT, wrote:


No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.

What is unrealistic about eating fresh vegetables every day? I've been
doing it for years. It takes no more time than frozen or canned stuff,
and I find it cheaper.

(I hate canned vegetables, btw.)

Jo Anne

On Mar 15, 8:59 am, "Nunya B." wrote:
"Jo Anne" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:01:32 GMT, wrote:

No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.

What is unrealistic about eating fresh vegetables every day? I've been
doing it for years. It takes no more time than frozen or canned stuff,
and I find it cheaper.

(I hate canned vegetables, btw.)

Jo Anne

It depends on where you live. There are many months of the year when I have
to depend on frozen because the fresh stuff is too expensive (way out of
season) or half rotted before it even hits the store (again, way out of
season and travelling long distance). The driving distance in rural areas
for a grocery store can be prohibitive to do more than a weekly visit - and
not all fresh things last a week.
--
the volleyballchick

Frozen works just as well. In fact, usually frozen (or canned) is
better tasting than fresh for fruits and vegetables, because they
wouldn't process a lot of poor tasting food. The supermarkets however
seem to have a lot of tasteless, or poor quality fruits and vegetables
which I end up throwing out after I've bought them, taken them home
and found them to be poor quality.

You would need to buy fresh lettuce though. I suppose if I couldn't
get to a supermarket...I shop daily....I would eat more canned and
frozen veggies, which should be just as healthy. dkw

wrote:

No, I didn't see that, but I recall watching a show about a month ago.
I think it was The Zone. They talked to the guy (doctor I think) who
developed it. He said one one of the keys is to buy and eat fresh
vegetables every day.

How unrealistic to think most people could or would do that. Just
like a doctor to think that most of us mortals have the time and
inclination to do that. No wonder people quit diets so quickly.



I'll say it again: all these "formula" diets are silly for most people.

The key to sticking on a diet is simple: eat only the foods you
really like, throwing out what you don't like. If you love fats,
eat fat. If you love carrots, eat carrots. If you love chocolate, eat
chocolate. If you love raw tuna, eat raw tuna.

Simply count calories and cut back on total calories.

Doug McDonald

Turning the food pyramid upside down might be a good thing.


EXACTLY, at least for some people. It works great for me.

Doug McDonald

wrote:
Today on NBC, I think, they talked about the study that someone
reviewed in this group a week ago. Anyway, it gave you visually a
comparison of a typical dinner for the Zone, Atkins, and Ornish diets.
Some lady reviewed the study saying that people lost weight on all
three, but Atkins was the best after 10 months. She pointed out also
that people in the study cheated...eating too much fat on the Ornish
diet, etc. Still overall, all 3 diets worked. The reason of course is
people were still eating fewer calories, even if they cheated. I'm
rehashing this cause someone already talked about it. The thing that
stood out to me though was visually, looking at the representative
plates of food. You had Atkins with some chicken and something else on
it....and quite a bit of plate showing. The Zone had a bit more food
on it...but not much....but the Ornish plate had a LOT of food...not
bottom of the plate showing there. It was stacked with great food
including 2 slices of bread. I will never ever give up bread. It ain't
the protein either folks cause protein and carbs have the same no. of
calories. It's the fat that makes you eat less in order to stay on the
diet. That's less by weight, not calories, since fat has concentrated
calories.

To me, the choice was clear. I want FOOD. Someone could try and make a
point that fat (or protein) might be more filling, or stay with you
longer, or curb appetite. All I know is there is a difference of
opinion on that. Although Atkins might have better results at 10
months, I would go for the high carb Ornish diet and MORE FOOD. Not
even close. dkw


rant

I had the displeasure of sharing a ski trip with a vegan this weekend.
He's been vegan for quite some time apparently but made our group (10)
dining quite uncomfortable.

We stayed at a bed & breakfast. The morning meal was a spread of eggs,
sausage, toast w/homemade jam, cold cereal and fruit. The hostess
offered hot cereal to our vegan guest but he seemed more expecting than
grateful when his special meal was served.

The group decided after skiing that convenience and bad weather made the
Inn our first choice for evening dining. Our vegan wasn't pleased at
the idea of paying $40(flat multi-course dinner rate)for pasta but
joined us anyway. Again the chef catered to him with a sauteed mushroom
appetizer, a Caesar salad w/out dressing and a vegetable oil pasta dish.
Our vegan complained about the food, the price and even ordered
chocolate cake for dessert(huh?).

The following mornings breakfast was yogurt, pancakes w/vermont syrup,
bacon and fruit. The hostess again offered the hot cereal but this time
our vegan protested that he needed more choices. She apologized
repeatedly but had no other offerings. He ate the oatmeal but didn't
hide the fact that he was upset from the rest of our group.

It was uncomfortable being present during these meals. It was also
surprising to me that the vegan never offered alternate food suggestion
but rather waited for the host and hostess to guess what he might want.
Almost like he was testing them.

I have a vegetarian meal from time to time but this vegan's diet
restriction, the trouble the host and hostess had to go through to
please him and his reluctance to be tolerant and flexible completely
turned me off. I'll stick to trying small portions of what is put in
front of me and throwing away over-sized portions any day.

end rant

--

Cheese

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