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#91
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Atkins Diet
"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
... What Ignoramus was saying is that a former fat person needs to more or less keep on doing the same thing that enabled them to lose the weight. To just say "oh I got my number now", and go back to their *old habits*, which *made them fat* is quite stupid. We do agree there, except their old habits were *not* the habits of a normal person. That's what got them fat in the first place (unless of course, they were actually normal but of slightly overweight body type and are embarking on the way to super-obesity through yo-yo dieting). Before the diet, they were eating like a fat obese, and after the diet, they are eating like a slim obese. But never are they eating like a regular slim person. And I include the so-called "balanced" diet. I mean, very few real slim people actually eat a balanced diet every single meal... It does not mean they even HAVE TO stick to that diet for the rest of their lives. Actually, most will have to. They will have at least to stick to a maintenance form of their diet. Just that they've now learned how to not get fat again. No, they have learnt how to do diet A. It has taught them nothing about doing diet B or actually eating like normal people. Actually, it has taught them exactly how NOT to eat like normal people. Normal people eat whatever they crave for - dieters eat whatever they do NOT crave for. Normal people do not eat when they're not hungry - many dieters are taught to stuff themselves with food they don't like (vegetables, fruits) in order to resist the urge to eat BAD food (fats, carbs). Normal people stop eating when they're not hungry anymore - many dieters eat until their stomach is full (which might include reducing the size of their stomach, so they can get it full anyway) for fear that they would get hungry and eat outside of the allowed hours and/or snack on BAD food. For normal people, having your stomach full is an emergency warning that any more food will make them throw up - for many dieters, having one's stomach full is the feeling they mistake for satiety ("veggies are great, they make me feel so *full*"). They have only learnt how to be a good dieter. When they snap and binge, they keep doing the same thing, except reversing BAD and GOOD, thus trying to get their stomach full on BAD food to compensate for their frustration. Any changes one makes to their life have to be permanent. As in, never again back to the old way, even if the changes vary from time to time. The old way was wrong, but this doesn't mean the new way is normal. I do agree that for *some* people with true organic disorders or allergies, you *do* need a diet. However, I do think they are a very very small minority. Likewise, some people actually do seem to be able to become "normal" eaters after a diet. From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC, you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and put in a museum or something. If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese... |
#92
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Atkins Diet
"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
... What Ignoramus was saying is that a former fat person needs to more or less keep on doing the same thing that enabled them to lose the weight. To just say "oh I got my number now", and go back to their *old habits*, which *made them fat* is quite stupid. We do agree there, except their old habits were *not* the habits of a normal person. That's what got them fat in the first place (unless of course, they were actually normal but of slightly overweight body type and are embarking on the way to super-obesity through yo-yo dieting). Before the diet, they were eating like a fat obese, and after the diet, they are eating like a slim obese. But never are they eating like a regular slim person. And I include the so-called "balanced" diet. I mean, very few real slim people actually eat a balanced diet every single meal... It does not mean they even HAVE TO stick to that diet for the rest of their lives. Actually, most will have to. They will have at least to stick to a maintenance form of their diet. Just that they've now learned how to not get fat again. No, they have learnt how to do diet A. It has taught them nothing about doing diet B or actually eating like normal people. Actually, it has taught them exactly how NOT to eat like normal people. Normal people eat whatever they crave for - dieters eat whatever they do NOT crave for. Normal people do not eat when they're not hungry - many dieters are taught to stuff themselves with food they don't like (vegetables, fruits) in order to resist the urge to eat BAD food (fats, carbs). Normal people stop eating when they're not hungry anymore - many dieters eat until their stomach is full (which might include reducing the size of their stomach, so they can get it full anyway) for fear that they would get hungry and eat outside of the allowed hours and/or snack on BAD food. For normal people, having your stomach full is an emergency warning that any more food will make them throw up - for many dieters, having one's stomach full is the feeling they mistake for satiety ("veggies are great, they make me feel so *full*"). They have only learnt how to be a good dieter. When they snap and binge, they keep doing the same thing, except reversing BAD and GOOD, thus trying to get their stomach full on BAD food to compensate for their frustration. Any changes one makes to their life have to be permanent. As in, never again back to the old way, even if the changes vary from time to time. The old way was wrong, but this doesn't mean the new way is normal. I do agree that for *some* people with true organic disorders or allergies, you *do* need a diet. However, I do think they are a very very small minority. Likewise, some people actually do seem to be able to become "normal" eaters after a diet. From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC, you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and put in a museum or something. If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese... |
#93
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Atkins Diet
Lictor,
I wish to apologize if the tone of my recent posts came across as either offensive OR offending, and or impatient. I re-read my posts and I did sound very impatient, harsh, and resentful, and that is not how I like to be, nor was it the way I was feeling when I wrote the posts. Anyway, my main point of view is that I am raised in a culture (Canada, not the USA - they are two different countries - by the way), where there are many ways to be polite, not just one. One is to simply take a serving of whatever is offered, another is to politely say "No, thank you", another is to systematically slice up said food on one's plate and pretend to have eaten some. Just wanted to make you aware that in the culture I grew up in, there are many ways to be socially polite, and yet they are all radically different from each other. Surprisingly though it may seem, MOST Of the time I do end up just eating whatever is put in front of me, without question, and then putting up with the effects afterward. But there are times when I can get away with not having to have something I don't want, something which makes my body feel yucky, and I definitely will take advantage of those times and the host(ess) will never EVER feel slighted. Peace, Crafting Mom |
#94
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Lictor,
I wish to apologize if the tone of my recent posts came across as either offensive OR offending, and or impatient. I re-read my posts and I did sound very impatient, harsh, and resentful, and that is not how I like to be, nor was it the way I was feeling when I wrote the posts. Anyway, my main point of view is that I am raised in a culture (Canada, not the USA - they are two different countries - by the way), where there are many ways to be polite, not just one. One is to simply take a serving of whatever is offered, another is to politely say "No, thank you", another is to systematically slice up said food on one's plate and pretend to have eaten some. Just wanted to make you aware that in the culture I grew up in, there are many ways to be socially polite, and yet they are all radically different from each other. Surprisingly though it may seem, MOST Of the time I do end up just eating whatever is put in front of me, without question, and then putting up with the effects afterward. But there are times when I can get away with not having to have something I don't want, something which makes my body feel yucky, and I definitely will take advantage of those times and the host(ess) will never EVER feel slighted. Peace, Crafting Mom |
#95
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Atkins Diet
"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
... Which is a pity, really. Far more to the point, if that happens, to work out *why* it happened, and to accept that one's goal might take another week to reach.... And then to spend a few days eating more carefully. Yet, most diet do not even attempt to deal with the fact that it *will* happen to many people. The advices are usually just plain lame, from "don't. butch up." to "eat delicious cuncumber sticks instead". One might wonder if the people who write these books have ever experienced a binge crisis and how strong it can be... They seem to think it's some kind of weird craving, where real bingeing is an earthquake that can obliterate all willpower. It's actually symptomatic of the whole approach. Bingeing is a purely psychological phenomenon, yet most insist on dealing with it from a purely dietetic point of view... |
#96
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Atkins Diet
"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
... Which is a pity, really. Far more to the point, if that happens, to work out *why* it happened, and to accept that one's goal might take another week to reach.... And then to spend a few days eating more carefully. Yet, most diet do not even attempt to deal with the fact that it *will* happen to many people. The advices are usually just plain lame, from "don't. butch up." to "eat delicious cuncumber sticks instead". One might wonder if the people who write these books have ever experienced a binge crisis and how strong it can be... They seem to think it's some kind of weird craving, where real bingeing is an earthquake that can obliterate all willpower. It's actually symptomatic of the whole approach. Bingeing is a purely psychological phenomenon, yet most insist on dealing with it from a purely dietetic point of view... |
#97
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"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
... Which is a pity, really. Far more to the point, if that happens, to work out *why* it happened, and to accept that one's goal might take another week to reach.... And then to spend a few days eating more carefully. Yet, most diet do not even attempt to deal with the fact that it *will* happen to many people. The advices are usually just plain lame, from "don't. butch up." to "eat delicious cuncumber sticks instead". One might wonder if the people who write these books have ever experienced a binge crisis and how strong it can be... They seem to think it's some kind of weird craving, where real bingeing is an earthquake that can obliterate all willpower. It's actually symptomatic of the whole approach. Bingeing is a purely psychological phenomenon, yet most insist on dealing with it from a purely dietetic point of view... |
#98
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Atkins Diet
Lictor wrote:
From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC, you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and put in a museum or something. Lictor, my impression about you was incorrect. I do apologize for my argumentative tone in my other posts. Yes, I was on low-carb, but it was just by coincidence. Being on low-carb helped me identify a lot of things which, if not kept under control, can lead to the urge to binge. I now do eat pretty normally. Not much sugar, not much grain, but more or less "normal". I don't go out of my way to buy any packaged, *******ized, polluted foods with 25-syllable additives to it, but there is a bit more variety in my diet. I stop when satiated and eat slowly. If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese... Actually, it's my (self made) low-carb diet that helped put the cravings at bay for a good long time, and gave me enough time to discern the difference between hunger (stomach empty, need to eat soon) and cravings (I wish I had a [whatever]). I had confused the two for so long that I NEEDED a physical representation of both in my own body, so I could discern them both as opposites. Before that, I very much had them marked as one and the same. Crafting Mom |
#99
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Atkins Diet
Lictor wrote:
From reading your posts, you actually sound like one. IIRC, you just happened on low carb through your own reasonning, and stuck to it as long as it mimicked what you had found for yourself. But mostly, you kept to your own feelings about food. Likewise, you do seem to be pretty well tuned to your own satiety and hunger feelings. I don't know if you realize just how lucky you are. Many people have dieted so much that to them feeling hungry is just an abstract concept. These can go through a one year therapy before something actually falls in place in their brain and they get a reliable hunger feeling... Your probably so rare you should be embalmed and put in a museum or something. Lictor, my impression about you was incorrect. I do apologize for my argumentative tone in my other posts. Yes, I was on low-carb, but it was just by coincidence. Being on low-carb helped me identify a lot of things which, if not kept under control, can lead to the urge to binge. I now do eat pretty normally. Not much sugar, not much grain, but more or less "normal". I don't go out of my way to buy any packaged, *******ized, polluted foods with 25-syllable additives to it, but there is a bit more variety in my diet. I stop when satiated and eat slowly. If you have become a rather normal eater, with a slightly peculiar diet that you might or might not need, it's mostly despite the diets, not thanks to them. I mean, diets mostly try to teach you how to *ignore* your hunger and how to mess up with your satiety (full breakfast, light dinner, fill up with veggies...). This doesn't sound like a good plan to re-educate obese... Actually, it's my (self made) low-carb diet that helped put the cravings at bay for a good long time, and gave me enough time to discern the difference between hunger (stomach empty, need to eat soon) and cravings (I wish I had a [whatever]). I had confused the two for so long that I NEEDED a physical representation of both in my own body, so I could discern them both as opposites. Before that, I very much had them marked as one and the same. Crafting Mom |
#100
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Atkins Diet
"Crafting Mom" wrote in message
... Lictor wrote: Well, I've been on all kinds of "weird diets", from vegan to vegetarian, to "no this" and "no that", and I've never had a problem enjoying life with friends! Here, people on a diet tend to just lock themselves and diet until they experiment some kind of transformation and the ugly worms turns into a beautiful butterfly that can go shine into the outside world. Anyway, that seems to be the common process among women dieters in my country. Male dieters, on the other hand, just go sulk with their friends where they remind everyone of how much they are NOT enjoying themselves and how hard it is to be on a diet, until they either manage to ruin the party for everyone OR managed to get "convinced" that the doctor actually told them not to diet at parties (then, they get drunk, eat a bunch and then spend the next few days complaining). Another male behaviour is to throw up a party to celebrate each lost couple of pounds - well managed, this provides an endless supply of parties as you yo-yo around the very same weight forever. I'm not saying it's sane (it's not), but it's just the way people do it. That also explains dieters don't get invited to parties. In the case of females, it would be rude to tempt them while they're turning into nuns, and it the case of males, they just ruin the party with their bad mood. Otherwise, the polite way to do things is just in reverse. You're not supposed to bother your host with your own peculiarities, and likewise, when the host comes to eat at your home, he's the one who won't bother you. I've been at wonderful gatherings with friends where an abundance of delicious food was served, and I didn't know attending said party had an admission fee of eating a food you don't like... grin. I just go without. And I do so happily while respecting my friend's rights to eat whatever they want. It's more like *tasting* and showing that the food is well cooked. If you're a vegan, noone will ask you to eat the meat of course, though you can earn cookie point by commenting on it - even if you don't eat it, you might say it looks good, that it smells so good you would *almost* wish you weren't vegan... If you're dieting, people will understand that you don't three tons of food. They might understand that you don't eat some food too. But if you don't eat anything at all *and* bring your own food, the host will just conclude that you think his cooking sucks and that you are telling it in the rudest way... See that is the thing. Respect. I go out of my way to cook things for my friends "weird eating habits", even if I don't eat it. It's called give and take. It's one of the things that hold friends together. Well, I go out of my way to *taste* what my weird friend cook for me... Including disgusting things like kidneys... I even managed some nice commenting while repressing the gag reflex... And if a woman has just a "starter" at a restaurant... so what? I've seen the portion size of some "starters", and that's enough for a whole entire meal! Maybe she is actually enjoying the taste of her starter, and is exercising real self control by *stopping when full* That's not in the USA, starters are *small* here You don't do a whole meal with one of our starters, even if you had gastric surgery. Actually, I do practice the stopping when "full" thing, that's my only mean of dieting. This doesn't prevent me from eating the whole menu at restaurants - I just eat about half the portions I'm served, and eventually do not have a dessert. That way, I eat in sync with the other people (which is the polite thing to do) and I experience a bit of each tastes... I just wish we had doggy bags Besides, she doesn't really enjoyed her starter, she seemed a lot more interested in what we were eating. And she's even underweight. Besides, she's the kind of person who has a kitchen I would kill for, fully featured with the best cooking technologies, yet *never* cooks in it because it would *dirty* it. Actually, she doesn't know how to cook, even pasta or rice. That's a sure sign of a troublesome relationship with food. So which is it? It just seems there's no pleasing anybody (which is now why I stop trying, where my own body is concerned). If a person is too fat, they're looked upon with disgust with a sneering upturned nose, and the person (sometimes verbally saying) "Ewww doesn't this woman have ANY self control???" OR, when they are thinner and more energetic and healthier due to their eating habits it's "Look at this chick, she's gone all weird and will not eat anything we offer!!" Well, I never claimed society is rationnal... But since we have to live in it, there is some level of adaptation to have. One is to find a way to make your eating habits society friendly and another is to try to change society (through fat acceptance for instance). But what else is new, life is full of double standards. Yup. But they're not that hard to manage actually. Besides, some of these standards are actually what keeps cooking tradition alive - over the course of your life, it makes sure you will eat plenty of different cooking traditions. In a country where you have different cooking styles every 100km, it's an important way of keeping diversity alive. It also means kids have a hard time living on a burger and fries only diet, since they too are expected to eat what is given to them instead of bringing their own food with them. |
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