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OT - Opinions about bleach as a cleanser



 
 
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  #51  
Old September 8th, 2004, 06:43 AM
Bob (this one)
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Roger Zoul wrote:

FOB wrote:
|| Yes, it is safe. It is added to drinking water and swimming pools
|| routinely. You don't want to breath the vapors too much, good thing
|| to do is spray some around and leave the room while it does its
|| stuff, come back and rinse when the fumes have died down. What do
|| dioxins have to do with bleach, it's just chlorine in water?

Byproducts.

http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html


Looks like bad info. Here's some stuff from the NIH:
"How are dioxins formed?
Dioxins are chemical contaminants that have no commercial usefulness
by themselves. They are formed during combustion processes, such as
waste incineration, forest fires and backyard trash burning, and
during manufacturing processes such as herbicide manufacture and paper
manufacture. e.g. dioxin was a contaminant of the herbicide Agent
Orange used as a defoliant by U.S. forces in Vietnam."

Says nothing about bleach in the home. It looks like the process of
creating dioxins is rather more complex than just using bleach in any
of the myriad uses generally considered.

"Formed during combustion processes" - that leaves bleach out. "During
manufacturing processes" - leaves bleach out.
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/oc/factsheets/dioxin.htm

Pastorio

||
|| In ,
|| Roger Zoul stated
||| I would like to know what you all think of using common bleach to
||| clean your bathroom and kitchen areas. Do you think it is safe to
||| use around your family? Do you feel it is environmentally safe?
||| What about those dioxins and stuff? It kills mold and stuff, but
||| personally, I hate the smell of the stuff.



  #52  
Old September 8th, 2004, 06:43 AM
Bob (this one)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Roger Zoul wrote:

FOB wrote:
|| Yes, it is safe. It is added to drinking water and swimming pools
|| routinely. You don't want to breath the vapors too much, good thing
|| to do is spray some around and leave the room while it does its
|| stuff, come back and rinse when the fumes have died down. What do
|| dioxins have to do with bleach, it's just chlorine in water?

Byproducts.

http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html


Looks like bad info. Here's some stuff from the NIH:
"How are dioxins formed?
Dioxins are chemical contaminants that have no commercial usefulness
by themselves. They are formed during combustion processes, such as
waste incineration, forest fires and backyard trash burning, and
during manufacturing processes such as herbicide manufacture and paper
manufacture. e.g. dioxin was a contaminant of the herbicide Agent
Orange used as a defoliant by U.S. forces in Vietnam."

Says nothing about bleach in the home. It looks like the process of
creating dioxins is rather more complex than just using bleach in any
of the myriad uses generally considered.

"Formed during combustion processes" - that leaves bleach out. "During
manufacturing processes" - leaves bleach out.
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/oc/factsheets/dioxin.htm

Pastorio

||
|| In ,
|| Roger Zoul stated
||| I would like to know what you all think of using common bleach to
||| clean your bathroom and kitchen areas. Do you think it is safe to
||| use around your family? Do you feel it is environmentally safe?
||| What about those dioxins and stuff? It kills mold and stuff, but
||| personally, I hate the smell of the stuff.



  #53  
Old September 8th, 2004, 11:16 AM
Cailleachschilde
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Cailleachschilde wrote:
|| Personally I like the smell. It lets me know something is clean.


Roger Zoul wrote:
All it tells me is there was bleach used somewhere.



Where bleach is used, the surface is clean.
I can't stand those phony flowery cleansers. They reek to me.

Yvonne

  #54  
Old September 8th, 2004, 11:16 AM
Cailleachschilde
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Default

Cailleachschilde wrote:
|| Personally I like the smell. It lets me know something is clean.


Roger Zoul wrote:
All it tells me is there was bleach used somewhere.



Where bleach is used, the surface is clean.
I can't stand those phony flowery cleansers. They reek to me.

Yvonne

  #55  
Old September 8th, 2004, 11:33 AM
Carmen
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Hi,
On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:

How It Causes Harm:
"The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say
that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true,
but
only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions.
Chlorine
itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of
chlorine such
as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment.


You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A
"byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine is an
element. It is already in its simplest naturally occuring form.
Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and oxygen or salt elements
like sodium.
These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of*
substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to occur
just because of the presence of chlorine atoms.

Take care,
Carmen
  #56  
Old September 8th, 2004, 11:46 AM
Martin W. Smith
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"Roger Zoul" wrote:

The paragraph below is where I got that notion:
How It Causes Harm:
"The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say that it
breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true, but only in a
laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions.


Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.

Chlorine itself is
not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of chlorine such as
organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. These byproducts do
not break down easily and readily, therefore they bioaccumilate. This makes
the water very toxic and carcinogenic. This contaminated water is then
discarded into streams and waterways and then come in contact with other
organic materials where in some cases can build up and form an extremely
toxic chemical. These high potent chemicals have been linked to a numerous
amount of human health problems. Such include birth defects, cancer,
reproductive disorders and immune system breakdowns. Bleach is a very
harmful chemical which can have long term effects on the environment and the
people and animals in and around them. "

Which I got from he
http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html




  #57  
Old September 8th, 2004, 11:46 AM
Martin W. Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Roger Zoul" wrote:

The paragraph below is where I got that notion:
How It Causes Harm:
"The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say that it
breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true, but only in a
laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions.


Chlorine is an element. It doesn't break down into anything else.

Chlorine itself is
not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of chlorine such as
organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment. These byproducts do
not break down easily and readily, therefore they bioaccumilate. This makes
the water very toxic and carcinogenic. This contaminated water is then
discarded into streams and waterways and then come in contact with other
organic materials where in some cases can build up and form an extremely
toxic chemical. These high potent chemicals have been linked to a numerous
amount of human health problems. Such include birth defects, cancer,
reproductive disorders and immune system breakdowns. Bleach is a very
harmful chemical which can have long term effects on the environment and the
people and animals in and around them. "

Which I got from he
http://carbon.cfr.washington.edu/esc.../cleaning.html




  #58  
Old September 8th, 2004, 12:05 PM
Carmen
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Default

Hi,
That's kind of the extent of my
germ warfare. I agree with the other poster when it comes to to
much germ warfare can be a bad thing.


Snip

That's true. For most people normal soap and water, with
antimocrobial agents when working with raw meats, is just fine.
In the case of our family it's a necessity though. My DH just
finished up 6 rounds of chemo last Monday and that plays holy hell
with the
immune system. Right now he's back in the hospital. He spiked a
fever Sunday and got admitted with neutropenic fever (white cell
count was 400. Low end of normal is 5000.) Then chest pain
cropped up.
Pneumonia this time. Bleh.
Until his immune system recovers we're going to have to be
psychotic germ-o-phobes ------note the scientific terminology.
G


You're a special needs household. That comes with a whole different
set of rules, doesn't it. My best to your husband, Carmen. I have a
friend who recently completed her 3rd bout in chemo ring. When bad
things
happen to good people...


Howard will be alright. It's hard for someone who isn't used to being
sick to have to live a restricted lifestyle, but if you take into
account the nature of the chemo they gave him (adriamycin and
ifosfamide), the doses they used (adriamycin has a lifetime max dose
because it damages the heart and he got the max) and the amputation
surgery too he's been remarkably healthy. This is only the second
time in the whole chemo routine that he's been hospitalized due to an
illness. He went in for the chemo itself (the doses were too high to
be done outpatient), blood transfusions a few times and platelets
once. Another remarkable thing was that the chemo schedule only got
delayed once, due to the first illness and even then only for a week.
I expected a lot more delays and illnesses going into this, but we've
really been fortunate.

I do hope your friend's chemo is as kind to her. Cancer doesn't care
who it hits. As a professor of mine put it, "Cancer is cells that
have lost all their manners." (Imagine this being said by Christopher
Lowell in a Georgia accent. That's what Dr. B sounds like.)
Best wishes for your friend. (BTW, gentle lotions make an excellent
little gift for someone during chemo. The skin tends to really
suffer. Just make sure it isn't heavily scented. Smells tend to get
weird.)

Take care,
Carmen
  #59  
Old September 8th, 2004, 12:05 PM
Carmen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi,
That's kind of the extent of my
germ warfare. I agree with the other poster when it comes to to
much germ warfare can be a bad thing.


Snip

That's true. For most people normal soap and water, with
antimocrobial agents when working with raw meats, is just fine.
In the case of our family it's a necessity though. My DH just
finished up 6 rounds of chemo last Monday and that plays holy hell
with the
immune system. Right now he's back in the hospital. He spiked a
fever Sunday and got admitted with neutropenic fever (white cell
count was 400. Low end of normal is 5000.) Then chest pain
cropped up.
Pneumonia this time. Bleh.
Until his immune system recovers we're going to have to be
psychotic germ-o-phobes ------note the scientific terminology.
G


You're a special needs household. That comes with a whole different
set of rules, doesn't it. My best to your husband, Carmen. I have a
friend who recently completed her 3rd bout in chemo ring. When bad
things
happen to good people...


Howard will be alright. It's hard for someone who isn't used to being
sick to have to live a restricted lifestyle, but if you take into
account the nature of the chemo they gave him (adriamycin and
ifosfamide), the doses they used (adriamycin has a lifetime max dose
because it damages the heart and he got the max) and the amputation
surgery too he's been remarkably healthy. This is only the second
time in the whole chemo routine that he's been hospitalized due to an
illness. He went in for the chemo itself (the doses were too high to
be done outpatient), blood transfusions a few times and platelets
once. Another remarkable thing was that the chemo schedule only got
delayed once, due to the first illness and even then only for a week.
I expected a lot more delays and illnesses going into this, but we've
really been fortunate.

I do hope your friend's chemo is as kind to her. Cancer doesn't care
who it hits. As a professor of mine put it, "Cancer is cells that
have lost all their manners." (Imagine this being said by Christopher
Lowell in a Georgia accent. That's what Dr. B sounds like.)
Best wishes for your friend. (BTW, gentle lotions make an excellent
little gift for someone during chemo. The skin tends to really
suffer. Just make sure it isn't heavily scented. Smells tend to get
weird.)

Take care,
Carmen
  #60  
Old September 8th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Roger Zoul
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Posts: n/a
Default

Carmen wrote:
:: Hi,
:: On 7-Sep-2004, "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: How It Causes Harm:
::: "The Clorox company states that chlorine is basically safe. They say
::: that it breaks down into harmless salt and water. This is very true,
::: but
::: only in a laboratory test tube under very controlled conditions.
::: Chlorine
::: itself is not the real issue at hand, but how the byproducts of
::: chlorine such
::: as organochlrines and dioxins remain in the environment.
::
:: You're smart and well-educated, but not in chemistry. :-) A
:: "byproduct" is a breakdown product of some mixture. Chlorine is an
:: element. It is already in its simplest naturally occuring form.
:: Chlorine cannot break down into hydrogen and oxygen or salt elements
:: like sodium.

I think what they mean is that if chlorine gets into the environment it can
act on other materials and the resulting chemical reaction may lead to
things like organochlorines and dioxins.

:: These people probably meant that chlorine can be made *part of*
:: substances such as the ones they list, but that's not going to occur
:: just because of the presence of chlorine atoms.

Well, the issue is that the bleach has to go somewhere in the environment,
which may result in these byproducts. I never said dioxin are in bleach,
someone else simply made the comment they aren't, which I don't dispute.


 




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