question about muscle

I used to eat around 3000-4000
calories a day (yes, really) in college,

actually, i probably was eating close to that amount, too. let's see, i'm
curious to find out: breakfast was either a bagel with cream cheese or brunch
at the dining hall, which was always great tasting and i probably ate a large
amount of food; lunch was maybe macaroni and cheese from the box, a bagel with
cream cheese (bagels were free at my co-op), or something at the dining hall,
which was maybe two hot dogs, a couple servings of pasta with sauce and cheese,
a custom-tossed salad with feta and a serving of oil-based dressing, creamy
soup and bread, grilled cheese/some other sandwich, or cheese quesadilla;
hmm...dinner was usually at the dining hall and meant a plate of various items,
or some custom made stir-fry (which would have been healthy if they didn't use
too much oil), and dessert, usually a cookie or cup of ice cream; and then
after staying up late we sometimes had a "dinner two" because we were pretty
starving by 2am, which probably consisted of either a buffalo chicken sandwich,
a slice or two of pizza, ramen noodle soup, french fries, hot pockets, or
chicken fingers (the only places that had food that late at night didn't have
much else). then, add on any random snacks and all the *alcohol* and you've got
10-15 lbs gained in 4-6 months.

is that how you ate, too? i mean, it wasn't every single day. sometimes i would
skip dessert, or make healthier choices at dinner because i felt like them. on
the whole, though, i was making bad choices and overeating. i always get hungry
late at night but i usually eat fruit or a container of f/f yogurt now instead.
two days ago i had a one-scoop ice cream cone with my boyfriend. it was
probably around 350 calories, but i had only eaten 1050-1150 calories by then
so why not? the problem is when you've eaten so much throughout the day and
then make your "snacks" into meals; it builds up like crazy.

thanks for the advice.

sara

hello teacher tell me what's my lesson,
look right through me, look right through me.

I think you are a little too worried and I don't think you have made too
many mistakes. The unfortunate truth for someone your size is that it is
nearly impossible to simultaneously gain muscle and lose fat. At best,
strength training throughout a weight loss diet will maintain muscle or will
cause less muscle loss.

As you are attempting to gain muscle, you will need to eat more calories
than you have been. Perhaps 100-150 per day above maintenance. And you will
gain fat as you lose muscle. At some point you will decide you have gained
too much fat with the muscle and will need to reverse the process, reducing
calories to below maintenance while trying to preserve the muscle you gained
previously. It can get very involved. If you really want to get involved in
this way of living google for the Ultimate Diet by Lyle McDonald.


thanks to you and everyone else for the advice.

sara

hello teacher tell me what's my lesson,
look right through me, look right through me.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:10:07 -0700, Matthew Venhaus wrote:

MU wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:27:15 -0700, Matthew Venhaus wrote:

As you are attempting to gain muscle, you will need to eat more calories
than you have been. Perhaps 100-150 per day above maintenance.

No you don't. I have many who have severely cut cals and food volumes and
hypertrophied very well.

Were they females below 20% bodyfat?

Yep, a few of the many. Say "ballet dancer".

MU wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:10:07 -0700, Matthew Venhaus wrote:

MU wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:27:15 -0700, Matthew Venhaus wrote:

As you are attempting to gain muscle, you will need to eat more
calories
than you have been. Perhaps 100-150 per day above maintenance.

No you don't. I have many who have severely cut cals and food volumes
and
hypertrophied very well.

Were they females below 20% bodyfat?

Yep, a few of the many. Say "ballet dancer".

Perhaps you could post a protocol here? And--since you like to cross-post to
groups with potentially better knowledge on the subject at hand--how about
cross-posting said protocol to misc.fitness.weights?

ASD regulars: If this guy is a troll just tell me and I'll stop replying. My
e-mail is valid.

I had the same problem. I'd wake up and inhale about three cups of
cereal with fruit, two pieces of toast, and a chocolate bar. Then I'd
skip afternoon snacks because I was on campus and away from my
apartment. I was always famished by the time I came home, so I ate
about three to four cups of rice with some greasy side dish like fried
chicken. Then I'd go to the supermarket to stockpile snacks such as
cheese puffs, pudding, applesauce, granola, ice cream, and fish sticks.
Everything (we are not talking about just one serving here, but entire
cartons) would disappear by night's end. I'd sleep pretty late and made
it a *point* to finish every box or carton I opened. It was very
unhealthy, but I never got extremely overweight, but I felt pretty
disgusting. On other days I'd have Indian food (buffet!) where I'd eat
about five to six cups of rice with five to six cups of curry, tandori
chicken on the side, cheese balls, and rice pudding. This happened
almost daily.

Alas, I eat much better now and feel much better as a result. I am
happy with this lifestyle, but I can see myself "cheating" a day or two
during the week and totally binging.

146/135/130

No you don't. I have many who have severely cut cals and food volumes
and
hypertrophied very well.

Were they females below 20% bodyfat?

Yep, a few of the many. Say "ballet dancer".

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:44:13 -0700, Matthew Venhaus wrote:

Perhaps you could post a protocol here? And--since you like to cross-post to
groups with potentially better knowledge on the subject at hand--how about
cross-posting said protocol to misc.fitness.weights?

Be my guest. Explain to me exactly what it is that you are trying to
accomplish with females below 20% BF, be specific, since I used only
specific training programs designed around specific details of the client.

MU wrote in message
...


Were they females below 20% bodyfat?

Yep, a few of the many. Say "ballet dancer".

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:44:13 -0700, Matthew Venhaus wrote:

Perhaps you could post a protocol here? And--since you like to
cross-post to
groups with potentially better knowledge on the subject at hand--how
about
cross-posting said protocol to misc.fitness.weights?

Be my guest. Explain to me exactly what it is that you are trying to
accomplish with females below 20% BF, be specific, since I used only
specific training programs designed around specific details of the client.

Well how about this:

Name: Sara
Weight: 118
Height: 5'7"
Goal: Build 5 pounds of muscle without added bodyfat, regain pre-diet
strength
Equipment available: 5lb ankle weights
Current exercise routine: Almost daily walking, occasional jogging,
occasional calisthenics
Current diet: 1400-1600 kcal per day

or the record, I could eat pretty much like you and Sara when I was
in college, and I didn't really put on any weight. I was at around
140 lbs. all through college.

yeah, i was about 125 lbs all through high school and sometimes i would inhale
an entire small pizza after school, meaning after already eating lunch in the
cafeteria (for the record, i was a vegetarian for awhile and so my sandwiches
were usually bread, cheese slice, lettuce and tomato, but i was still eating
whole boxes of macaroni and cheese). i could have probably still consumed whole
boxes of macaroni and cheese (2.5 servings) for lunch or dinner without a
problem, because i don't think my metabolism actually slowed down, but the
whole packing on of other things, i.e. eating more than i ever had before, in
that one semester led to weight gain. i don't think i'd ever become very
overweight unless i *seriously* overate (i mean binged, which i would not do),
but it was a little upsetting to hear at my physical that i had gained "the
freshman 15" when i was a sophomore. i'm just glad that i changed my lifestyle,
too, because buying healthy grains and lean, organic meats and vegetables have
definitely made me feel better than greasy cheese fries or chicken fingers ever
could.

pizza, though--- i'll always love pizza. as long as it's not too oily.

sara

hello teacher tell me what's my lesson,
look right through me, look right through me.

Alas, I eat much better now and feel much better as a result. I am
happy with this lifestyle, but I can see myself "cheating" a day or two
during the week and totally binging.

i don't binge, i've never had that problem, but i will definitely eat a couple
brownies/cookies or slices of pizza once a week if we go out to dinner or
someone makes them (or, for example, tomorrow is our last final and we are
planning to get some dessert to celebrate). the only real splurges i have
either occur on holidays, occasions where my mother has cooked good homemade
food, or trips for pizza in new haven with my boyfriend (we eat a lot of food
there--- split a large, probably, and leave a couple pieces. it's amazing
pizza, and the italian bakery next door makes the best raspberry canoli). my
problem was definitely eating too much "bad" food but not necessarily bad
portion sizes, i.e. way too much french fries, taco bell, tgifridays and stuff
like that.

sara

hello teacher tell me what's my lesson,
look right through me, look right through me.

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:33:01 +1000, PJ wrote:

MU, you are one of the most consistently idiotic posters on here.

Thanks. The truth is most often met by resistance.

Increase muscle mass, increase the energy required for that mass at
rest, in other words, increase BMR. Simple physics, no "not
necessarily" involved.

PJ

There is nothing simple about physics.