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  #1  
Old March 13th, 2009, 07:25 AM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Lavender, Lord of Darkness
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Posts: 7
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Good afternoon, all,

Been doing various types of dieting for about 5 or 6 years, losing a few
kilos, regaining a few kilos, etc. (I do body-building, too, with the same
gain a few kilos of muscle, then lose a few kilos of muscle... So, it's
impossible to guess how well I'm doing just by looking at my overall weight)

This year, I'm taking a more extreme and consistant approach to dieting
(basically, I aim for 250 calories per day (I think I've only done maybe 7
or 8 days like that) and then I have an upper limit of 1000 calories (my BMR
is 2000) With a 15 - 30 minute workout each day to avoid muscle loss.

Another big help this year (crucial, even) I got a 'bioelectrical
impedence' scale. They're not perfect, but used properly (same level of
hydration, etc.) they can offer a reasonably consistent example of weight
loss, without having to factor in bone-mass, water-weight, etc. (I'm down
from 34kg of fat, to about 25.5kg since start of January (diet started
seriously in February))
Or, in more traditional terms, I'm 6' and down from 104kg (or thereabouts)
to 93.5kg.

Wonderful system, for me, but probably useless for anyone else reading.
(Going to the gym once a day, and doing a serious weight-lifting workout is
absolutely crucial. Also, my energy levels seem unaffected by so little food
(occasional headaches/faintness on 250 cal, absolutely fine on 1000cal)

So, anyway, here I am. Seen some interesting recipe ideas (although I'm not
using the 'points' system myself) and a few fascinating articles. A quick
browse suggest that folks are nice enough (maybe a little bit too 'support
group-ish' for my tastes, but that's to be expected from a support group)
Also, you just can't go past the basic charm of ancient usenet
messageboards, nice little throwback to the proto-internet era when I grew
up.


  #2  
Old March 13th, 2009, 05:00 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Willow Herself
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Posts: 1,887
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Let me get this straight, you're 6' tall, 104 Kg, and you aim for 250
cal/day (which gives you headache and make you feel faint) and you're
planning on working out 15-30 minutes/day to avoid muscle loss?

You've lost about 19 lbs in 1 month, and hope to keep this rate of loss.

I don't even know where to start. If you manage to keep this up long enough
to get results, you better take a picture, cause they ain't gonna last long.

Will~


"Lavender, Lord of Darkness" wrote in message
...
Good afternoon, all,

Been doing various types of dieting for about 5 or 6 years, losing a few
kilos, regaining a few kilos, etc. (I do body-building, too, with the same
gain a few kilos of muscle, then lose a few kilos of muscle... So, it's
impossible to guess how well I'm doing just by looking at my overall
weight)

This year, I'm taking a more extreme and consistant approach to dieting
(basically, I aim for 250 calories per day (I think I've only done maybe 7
or 8 days like that) and then I have an upper limit of 1000 calories (my
BMR is 2000) With a 15 - 30 minute workout each day to avoid muscle loss.

Another big help this year (crucial, even) I got a 'bioelectrical
impedence' scale. They're not perfect, but used properly (same level of
hydration, etc.) they can offer a reasonably consistent example of weight
loss, without having to factor in bone-mass, water-weight, etc. (I'm down
from 34kg of fat, to about 25.5kg since start of January (diet started
seriously in February))
Or, in more traditional terms, I'm 6' and down from 104kg (or thereabouts)
to 93.5kg.

Wonderful system, for me, but probably useless for anyone else reading.
(Going to the gym once a day, and doing a serious weight-lifting workout
is absolutely crucial. Also, my energy levels seem unaffected by so little
food (occasional headaches/faintness on 250 cal, absolutely fine on
1000cal)

So, anyway, here I am. Seen some interesting recipe ideas (although I'm
not using the 'points' system myself) and a few fascinating articles. A
quick browse suggest that folks are nice enough (maybe a little bit too
'support group-ish' for my tastes, but that's to be expected from a
support group) Also, you just can't go past the basic charm of ancient
usenet messageboards, nice little throwback to the proto-internet era when
I grew up.



  #3  
Old March 14th, 2009, 10:32 AM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Nathalie W
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Posts: 77
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Lavender, Lord of Darkness wrote:
Good afternoon, all,

Been doing various types of dieting for about 5 or 6 years, losing a few
kilos, regaining a few kilos, etc. (I do body-building, too, with the same
gain a few kilos of muscle, then lose a few kilos of muscle... So, it's
impossible to guess how well I'm doing just by looking at my overall weight)

This year, I'm taking a more extreme and consistant approach to dieting
(basically, I aim for 250 calories per day (I think I've only done maybe 7
or 8 days like that) and then I have an upper limit of 1000 calories (my BMR
is 2000) With a 15 - 30 minute workout each day to avoid muscle loss.

Another big help this year (crucial, even) I got a 'bioelectrical
impedence' scale. They're not perfect, but used properly (same level of
hydration, etc.) they can offer a reasonably consistent example of weight
loss, without having to factor in bone-mass, water-weight, etc. (I'm down
from 34kg of fat, to about 25.5kg since start of January (diet started
seriously in February))
Or, in more traditional terms, I'm 6' and down from 104kg (or thereabouts)
to 93.5kg.

Wonderful system, for me, but probably useless for anyone else reading.
(Going to the gym once a day, and doing a serious weight-lifting workout is
absolutely crucial. Also, my energy levels seem unaffected by so little food
(occasional headaches/faintness on 250 cal, absolutely fine on 1000cal)

So, anyway, here I am. Seen some interesting recipe ideas (although I'm not
using the 'points' system myself) and a few fascinating articles. A quick
browse suggest that folks are nice enough (maybe a little bit too 'support
group-ish' for my tastes, but that's to be expected from a support group)
Also, you just can't go past the basic charm of ancient usenet
messageboards, nice little throwback to the proto-internet era when I grew
up.


Welcome, Lavender. This is indeed a group many come to for support...
but there are some great recipes shared, and it's always good to have
more people joining and sharing. Careful though, such an extremely low
amount of calories might catch up on you later, yoyo-dieting comes to
mind... You would most definitely still lose while eating more calories.

--
Nathalie from Belgium
  #4  
Old March 14th, 2009, 02:17 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Lavender, Lord of Darkness
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Also new...


"Nathalie W" wrote in message
...
Welcome, Lavender. This is indeed a group many come to for support... but
there are some great recipes shared, and it's always good to have more
people joining and sharing. Careful though, such an extremely low amount
of calories might catch up on you later, yoyo-dieting comes to mind... You
would most definitely still lose while eating more calories.


Thanks for the welcome :-)

I should probably emphasise that, despite my original intention of 250cal
per day, I have in reality been at about 1000cal for every day of my diet
(with a few days slightly over, this past week (mostly due to eating foods
that made calorie-counting difficult. Mother's cooking, etc.)

About yo-yo dieting, I did try something similarly extreme a few years ago
and the results lasted. One January (in 2006, I think) I tried doing the
'Machinist'* diet and lost about 10kg in a month (but that's 10kg total
including, I assume, a lot of water weight and probably some muscle) Going
from about 110kg to a little under 100kg (96kg or 97kg, I think)
I slowly fell off that diet (adding increasingly more dubious 'negative
calorie' foods) and by mid-February I was off it completely, but I did stay
at or just below 100kg for years afterwards (only getting back up to about
106kg, suddenly, last semester (or, I should say, suddenly, last summer;
just because I like obscure movie references)
These are terribly vague and inaccurate figures (one of the reasons I had
trouble staying on the 'Machinist' diet; not taking my workouts very
seriously, I was never certain how much weight-loss was water, fat or
muscle) but I think they suggest I'll probably be able to avoid the 'yo-yo'
dieting effect. (Although, one very significant difference is that on the
'Machinist' diet, I didn't reach my goal-weight, so in the years that
followed I was still basically trying to lose weight, just not as seriously.
By contrast, if I succeed in reaching my goal weight on this current diet,
then it becomes a matter of maintaining that weight (which may be more
difficult, psychologically)
*The 'Machinist' diet I refer to is a very extreme diet that the actor
Christian Bale used to lose weight for a movie called 'The Machinist' (good
film, btw) Consisted of an apple, a cup of coffee and a can of tuna. My diet
started off like that, but quickly added filling, supposedly 'negative
calorie' meals (lots of cucumber salads, that sort of thing. There's a whole
list of foods that supposedly take more calories to digest than are actually
gained from the food. But, I don't know how good the research is)

Anyway, I am considering increasing my 'basic diet' to about 500 calories,
in the hope of spending more days at that level. Possibly with the addition
of a second protein-shake. But, realistically, I'll probably end up around
1000cal for the rest of my diet, which is still a decent weight-loss.


  #5  
Old March 14th, 2009, 02:26 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Lavender, Lord of Darkness
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Also new...


"Willow Herself" wrote in
message news
Let me get this straight, you're 6' tall, 104 Kg, and you aim for 250
cal/day (which gives you headache and make you feel faint) and you're
planning on working out 15-30 minutes/day to avoid muscle loss?

You've lost about 19 lbs in 1 month, and hope to keep this rate of loss.

I don't even know where to start. If you manage to keep this up long
enough to get results, you better take a picture, cause they ain't gonna
last long.


I responded to a lot of this in my reply to 'Nathalie W,' so it would be
excessive to repeat myself. But, I just thought I should add...
1. Thanks for the reply.

2. During the first five days of my diet (when I managed to maintain the
250cal thing) I didn't just 'plan' on working out 15 - 30 minutes a day, I
DID work out 15 - 30 minutes a day. (To the amazement of everyone who knew
about my diet)
As to how that was physically possible, I think it's related to a concept
called 'foraging mode' I haven't read very much about this but, apparently,
the idea is that when some people and animals are dealing with limited food,
the body actually increases energy levels in order to give them a better
chance of finding food. (What determines wether a person goes into 'foraging
mode' (more energy) or 'starvation mode' (less energy) I'm not sure.)
The headaches and faintness didn't start until about day 4, and I've been
fine since I started allowing myself 1000cal maximum.


  #6  
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:30 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Dee Flint
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 122
Default Also new...


"Lavender, Lord of Darkness" wrote in message
...
Good afternoon, all,

Been doing various types of dieting for about 5 or 6 years, losing a few
kilos, regaining a few kilos, etc. (I do body-building, too, with the same
gain a few kilos of muscle, then lose a few kilos of muscle... So, it's
impossible to guess how well I'm doing just by looking at my overall
weight)

This year, I'm taking a more extreme and consistant approach to dieting
(basically, I aim for 250 calories per day (I think I've only done maybe 7
or 8 days like that) and then I have an upper limit of 1000 calories (my
BMR is 2000) With a 15 - 30 minute workout each day to avoid muscle loss.

Another big help this year (crucial, even) I got a 'bioelectrical
impedence' scale. They're not perfect, but used properly (same level of
hydration, etc.) they can offer a reasonably consistent example of weight
loss, without having to factor in bone-mass, water-weight, etc. (I'm down
from 34kg of fat, to about 25.5kg since start of January (diet started
seriously in February))
Or, in more traditional terms, I'm 6' and down from 104kg (or thereabouts)
to 93.5kg.

Wonderful system, for me, but probably useless for anyone else reading.
(Going to the gym once a day, and doing a serious weight-lifting workout
is absolutely crucial. Also, my energy levels seem unaffected by so little
food (occasional headaches/faintness on 250 cal, absolutely fine on
1000cal)

So, anyway, here I am. Seen some interesting recipe ideas (although I'm
not using the 'points' system myself) and a few fascinating articles. A
quick browse suggest that folks are nice enough (maybe a little bit too
'support group-ish' for my tastes, but that's to be expected from a
support group) Also, you just can't go past the basic charm of ancient
usenet messageboards, nice little throwback to the proto-internet era when
I grew up.


This is an unhealthy level of restriction. You may be fine now but longer
term you are probably in for some health issues from it.


  #7  
Old March 14th, 2009, 03:50 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Lavender, Lord of Darkness
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Also new...


"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


This is an unhealthy level of restriction. You may be fine now but longer
term you are probably in for some health issues from it.


How do you mean 'longer term'?

I estimate reaching my goal-weight somewhere between 2 and 4 months from
now. Then it's exactly 1 week without any worrying about diet, followed by a
more healthy diet for the rest of my life (probably 2000cal, if I keep up
the body-building)


  #8  
Old March 14th, 2009, 04:53 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Dee Flint
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 122
Default Also new...


"Lavender, Lord of Darkness" wrote in message
u...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


This is an unhealthy level of restriction. You may be fine now but
longer term you are probably in for some health issues from it.


How do you mean 'longer term'?

I estimate reaching my goal-weight somewhere between 2 and 4 months from
now. Then it's exactly 1 week without any worrying about diet, followed by
a more healthy diet for the rest of my life (probably 2000cal, if I keep
up the body-building)


Gallstones & possible gall bladder surgery
Heart Palpitations
Reduction of muscle. At such low calorie levels the body has no choice but
to burn muscle in addition to fat.

It's much healthier to lose slower.

Check the government food pyramid for recommended calorie levels for losing
and maintaining. A 6 foot male will need significantly more than 2000
calories per day to maintain for example. If you are exercising you will
need even more.


  #9  
Old March 14th, 2009, 05:14 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Dee Flint
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 122
Default Also new...


"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Lavender, Lord of Darkness" wrote in message
u...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


This is an unhealthy level of restriction. You may be fine now but
longer term you are probably in for some health issues from it.


How do you mean 'longer term'?

I estimate reaching my goal-weight somewhere between 2 and 4 months from
now. Then it's exactly 1 week without any worrying about diet, followed
by a more healthy diet for the rest of my life (probably 2000cal, if I
keep up the body-building)


Gallstones & possible gall bladder surgery
Heart Palpitations
Reduction of muscle. At such low calorie levels the body has no choice
but to burn muscle in addition to fat.

It's much healthier to lose slower.

Check the government food pyramid for recommended calorie levels for
losing and maintaining. A 6 foot male will need significantly more than
2000 calories per day to maintain for example. If you are exercising you
will need even more.


Just a quick check of the (US) government food pyramid shows about 2000
calories for a sedentary male to lose weight and somewhat more to maintain.


  #10  
Old March 14th, 2009, 06:19 PM posted to alt.support.diet.weightwatchers
Lavender, Lord of Darkness
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Also new...


"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

Gallstones & possible gall bladder surgery
Heart Palpitations
Reduction of muscle. At such low calorie levels the body has no choice
but to burn muscle in addition to fat.

It's much healthier to lose slower.

Check the government food pyramid for recommended calorie levels for
losing and maintaining. A 6 foot male will need significantly more than
2000 calories per day to maintain for example. If you are exercising you
will need even more.


Just a quick check of the (US) government food pyramid shows about 2000
calories for a sedentary male to lose weight and somewhat more to
maintain.


I see. I'll probably do 2500 or whatever it is to maintain, when I get
there.
At this point, I genuinely haven't done much research on what's the proper
calorie intake for a 75 - 80kg 6' male.
I vaguely remember checking one calculator, just out of curiosity, which
said a 77kg, 6' male has a BMR of about 1700 (plus calories for walking,
exercise and all the rest)
I do wonder about the food pyramid thing, if it's only saying 2000 calories
for any 6' male. A 70kg man and a 270kg man will have vastly different
calorie requirements, even if they're the same height.

Point is, the 'maintaining' number of calories I mentioned was chosen almost
at random. There's far too many variables for me to figure out, now, how
many calories I'll need to eat once I'm at my ideal weight. (And that will
change, too, depending on how much I want to continue with bodybuilding, if
I take up any other sports, etc.)


Also, I don't think I mentioned, but I'm only 26. That's part of why I think
it's so crucial for me to lose weight now, while it's reasonably easy for my
body to handle it.
The alternative, realistically, would be for me to continue having little
attempts at dieting for the next 5 or 10 or 20 years (just like the last
five years,) lose a little weight, gain a little, etc. and eventually
realise that a serious diet like this is the only thing that can work for
me. (Of course, realising that when I'm 30 or 40 or 50 would mean my body
would be even less capable of taking the strain)

As you all probably know, good dieting is as much (actually, I think, more)
about the psychology than it is about the physical. I know (from 5 or 6
years trying) that a 'physically' ideal diet (losing weight a kilogram or
two a month) simply will not work for me 'psychologically.'


 




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