Harvard study/CNN article

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.....ap/index.html

this article raises several points that have been debated (often hotly) in
this newsgroup, dividing even Atkins adherents. The most provacative being
that even with INCREASED calories, more weight was lost by atkins followers
Here are some quotes that capture some of the shock.....and hit phrases
argued he

1)"It doesn't make sense, does it?" said Barbara Rolls of Pennsylvania State
University. "It violates the laws of thermodynamics.
2)"That strikes at one of the most revered beliefs in nutrition: A calorie
is a calorie is a calorie. It does not matter whether they come from bacon
or mashed potatoes; they all go on the waistline in just the same way. "
3)"Each afternoon, the volunteers picked up that evening's dinner, a bedtime
snack and the next day's breakfast and lunch. Instead of lots of red meat
and saturated fat, which many find disturbing about low-carb diets, these
people ate mostly fish, chicken, salads, vegetables and unsaturated oils.
"This is not what people think of when they think about an Atkins diet,"
Greene said."

This last part is my favorite quote, as for the first time, it captures my
main beef (pardon the pun) with coverage of atkins, as my diet is nothing
like the red meat-dripping with blood-diet portrayed normally in the media.
Fish, salads, vegatables, chicken, blueberries and nuts. That is my atkins
diet.

Some of the misconceptions were discussed: "Or perhaps the food choices are
just so limited that low-carb dieters are too bored to eat a lot. "
(Hahahahahahahahahah!)

A truth that all of us agree on was mentioned: "Maybe the low-carb diets are
more satisfying, so they do not get so hungry." and related: "perhaps the
people eating more calories also got more exercise or they were less apt to
cheat because they were less hungry."

But the thrust of this article was reporting the astounding fact that people
ate MORE calories and lost MORE weight. This has been debated hotly here,
amongst those of us who believe in atkins.

To me there are the following possibilities:
1) people cheat in studies, but on atkins they cheat on atkins.
2) something changes in the digestive process, either passing calories (this
would be easy (if somewhat disgusting) to test by running fecies and uring
through a calorimeter.)
3) it costs more calories to digest atkins food (mentioned in this article,
but this seems doubtful to me)
4) A change in the metabolic rate. This was doubted in the article, but i am
not even sure how they would measure it
5) A fundamental flaw in our understading of the nutritional models
incorporating all or some of the above or some other aspects known to us.

glad i stocked up on atkins freindly food this week, i predict a 10%
increase in prices before the weekend.


Bob Morrell
197/164/160

Bob Morrell
197/164/160

Great points, Bob, and even better numbers in your sig. Sounds like your
doing real good.

One thing I wish I could see was the actual study itself- not just articles
written about it. There are so many factors to a scientific study that
it's difficult to take any article at face value without actually seeing
what the control points were.

Jake

--
My favorite animal is steak.--Fran Lebowitz

"bob" writes:
5) A fundamental flaw in our understading of the nutritional models
incorporating all or some of the above or some other aspects known
to us.

Ignorance is always a safe bet ;-)

Jake,

The actual study will probably appear in this week's Medscape newsletter. To
get it, go to www.medscape.com and sign up. It's free. When you do, tell
'em you're a physician to get the non-dumbed down version of the newsletter.

I get the Endocrinology and Family Medicine version every week. It's
extremely useful for tracking the latest in medical research, though if you
read it for a while, you'll soon realize how much of that research is badly
designed and poorly analyzed.

-- Jenny

168.5/137

Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?


"Jake" wrote in message
...


Bob Morrell
197/164/160

Great points, Bob, and even better numbers in your sig. Sounds like your
doing real good.

One thing I wish I could see was the actual study itself- not just
articles
written about it. There are so many factors to a scientific study that
it's difficult to take any article at face value without actually seeing
what the control points were.

Jake

--
My favorite animal is steak.--Fran Lebowitz

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:13:10 -0400, Jenny wrote:

Jake,

The actual study will probably appear in this week's Medscape newsletter. To
get it, go to www.medscape.com and sign up. It's free. When you do, tell
'em you're a physician to get the non-dumbed down version of the newsletter.

I get the Endocrinology and Family Medicine version every week. It's
extremely useful for tracking the latest in medical research, though if you
read it for a while, you'll soon realize how much of that research is badly
designed and poorly analyzed.

-- Jenny

168.5/137

Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?


"Jake" wrote in message
...


Bob Morrell
197/164/160

Great points, Bob, and even better numbers in your sig. Sounds like your
doing real good.

One thing I wish I could see was the actual study itself- not just
articles
written about it. There are so many factors to a scientific study that
it's difficult to take any article at face value without actually seeing
what the control points were.

Jake

--
My favorite animal is steak.--Fran Lebowitz

Thanks!

Jake

--
My favorite animal is steak.--Fran Lebowitz