Guar Gum Reprise

".." wrote:
"April Goodwin-Smith" wrote:
Question: can guar gum be used in things that are not
going to be heated ever - will they still thicken?
And I have discovered that the answer is "yes" - snip
April, how the heck did you get the guar gum to thicken
something cold? I bought the stuff a few weeks ago to
experiment with my breakfast drink. I used two teaspoons
and whipped it up with two cups of soy milk and cream. I
blended the mixture for a couple of minutes but the guar
gum just sank back to the bottom.


Hmmm. I think that you might have used too much, maybe.
To be honest, the only non-heated experiment I have tried
so far is in a salad dressing. I used 1/4 cup oil, and
1/8 cup vinegar, and a scant 1/8 teaspoon of guar gum.
It took some time to thicken - say about 5 minutes, and
it didn't get mayonnaise thick, but more like unwhipped
whipping cream thick (more thick than the oil alone).

I tried to find out how much liquid guar gum absorbs, but
I didn't find any information about that. I've been meaning
to do an experiment of, say, one to one, one to ten, and one
to twenty to see what it does, but I haven't done it yet.

I was looking for something that would help me mimic the
structure of mayonnaise, but it has gotten so cold here
so quickly, that I'm not interested in cold food right
now (tuna salad etc), so the experiment in further down
my list of priorities.

Um. That didn't really answer the question, did it?

April.
Put out the cat.
--
"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things. Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax (Pratchett 1988)

April Goodwin-Smith wrote:

".." wrote:

"April Goodwin-Smith" wrote:

Question: can guar gum be used in things that are not
going to be heated ever - will they still thicken?

And I have discovered that the answer is "yes" - snip

April, how the heck did you get the guar gum to thicken
something cold? I bought the stuff a few weeks ago to
experiment with my breakfast drink. I used two teaspoons
and whipped it up with two cups of soy milk and cream. I
blended the mixture for a couple of minutes but the guar
gum just sank back to the bottom.

The chemistry of how gums work and when they work is relatively
complex and loaded with jargon. Simply stated, one thing that affects
them is "shear" which is what happens in blending them. Too little
blending and they clump. But too much and they don't thicken very well.

Mixing them for a couple of minutes means that you very likely got
past the clumping stage, past the thickening stage and all the way to
breaking those molecular chains that thicken. Try it with just enough
mixing that you don't see any white clumps and then stop.

Another important thing is to note what April wrote below. The gums
will continue to thicken after they've been mixed into the solution as
they rehydrate and become swollen with the fluids.

Mixing gums with water-based liquids lets them rehydrate more quickly
and more fully. And it's good if the liquid isn't strongly acid,
although that often can't be avoided, as in the salad dressing below.
In the recipe below, were I doing it, I'd quickly mix the gum and
vinegar in a blender and let it sit for about 10 minutes. Then I'd
incorporate the oil slowly as the blender runs. Total mixing time of
less than a minute. I wouldn't do this recipe this way, though. I'd
want other things in the dressing for flavor and interest. Herbs,
salt, pepper, maybe and other flavor elements. If using any dry
ingredients, I'd mix them with the gum as "diluents" to separate the
grains of gum from each other so they don't clump. Then I'd finish it
as described above.

In professional recipes for commercial products, ingredients are
listed as percentages of the whole. Gums are very variable in their
properties and there are many of them. They will also vary depending
on their purity, standardization and a bunch of other conditions.
Depending on the degree of thickening, the percentages will vary
widely. One gum I'm experimenting with operates in the .25 to .8 range
to get a thick but pourable opaque gel. Another takes upwards of 4%
but results in a slightly more oily-looking result.

For home purposes, the amounts of xanthan or guar gums will be in the
decimal ranges. If you have an electronic scale, you can weigh to the
2nd decimal place. Otherwise, it'll have to be pinches and fractions
of teaspoons.

Hmmm. I think that you might have used too much, maybe.
To be honest, the only non-heated experiment I have tried
so far is in a salad dressing. I used 1/4 cup oil, and
1/8 cup vinegar, and a scant 1/8 teaspoon of guar gum.
It took some time to thicken - say about 5 minutes, and
it didn't get mayonnaise thick, but more like unwhipped
whipping cream thick (more thick than the oil alone).

I tried to find out how much liquid guar gum absorbs, but
I didn't find any information about that. I've been meaning
to do an experiment of, say, one to one, one to ten, and one
to twenty to see what it does, but I haven't done it yet.

I was looking for something that would help me mimic the
structure of mayonnaise, but it has gotten so cold here
so quickly, that I'm not interested in cold food right
now (tuna salad etc), so the experiment in further down
my list of priorities.

Gums won't give you the same or even a really close approximation of
the texture of mayo. What are you trying to accomplish? Perhaps some
experience that I've had could help point a way.

Pastorio

Bob Pastorio wrote:
April Goodwin-Smith wrote:

snip snap snorum

I was looking for something that would help me mimic the
structure of mayonnaise, but it has gotten so cold here
so quickly, that I'm not interested in cold food right
now (tuna salad etc), so the experiment in further down
my list of priorities.

Gums won't give you the same or even a really close
approximation of the texture of mayo. What are you trying
to accomplish? Perhaps some experience that I've had
could help point a way.


I have difficulty with the eggs (non-lethal gut ache). But
I get bored with oil & vinegar based salad dressings, and
would occasionally like to add something similar to a blob
of mayonnaise.

The guar gum was good for a change of pace, although it was
definitely not creamy. I could use sour cream or yoghurt,
but I also have difficulty with dairy (just an intolerance,
but I find it intolerable), and so I restrict my dairy to
cream for my one cup of coffee a day, and the occasional real
lump of cheese (I have a lump of gorgonzola double wrapped in
the fridge, waiting for the perfect moment).

The other place a mayonnaise-a-like would be useful is in
tuna salad or egg salad or chicken salad.

Any pointers you have will be gratefully welcomed.

April.
Put the cat out.
--
"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things. Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax (Pratchett 1988)