Verbal attack on Low Carb'ng

Nope, but I will now! I just don't like mustard on a hamburger!!

Thanks, I will look for it.

On 5 Nov 2004 05:37:24 -0800, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:

"Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need
so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad
diet? "

Heh Papa, have you tried the Heinz LC ketchup? Tastes just like the regular to me.



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Nope, but I will now! I just don't like mustard on a hamburger!!

Thanks, I will look for it.

On 5 Nov 2004 05:37:24 -0800, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:

"Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need
so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad
diet? "

Heh Papa, have you tried the Heinz LC ketchup? Tastes just like the regular to me.



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Papa Joe wrote:
:: Hi
:: I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, in
:: reality could be, it is not necessarily so.
::
:: Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need fat
:: or
:: more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ketosis
:: gets the fat elsewhere.
::
:: However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and still
:: exist......at least I think so!
::
:: I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb individual...granted
:: for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me.
:: I do not shun fat but do not look for it either.
:
What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of calories
comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does not imply
eating a lot of fat.

If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your eating for
a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high fat. So
unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies with no dressing,
you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat. you don't have to
hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it is fairly
easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My sat fat
intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories.


:
:: FWIW.
:: Joe
::
::
::
:: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:
::
::: Papa Joe wrote:
::::: Hi
::::: I read an
:::::
:::
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca
::: rb_trend.aspx)
::::: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back
::::: against low carbing..which is OK.
:::::
::::: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I
::::: know it is for me anyway--it goes:
:::::
::::: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it
::::: is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our
::::: culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways
::::: Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that
::::: organized the event."
:::
:::
::: The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat
::: diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is
::: true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is
::: the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it
::: comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of
::: calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do
::: well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin
::: resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too.
:::
:::
:::::
::::: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat
::::: are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.
:::
::: That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not
::: eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of
::: carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of
::: BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not
::: hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight.
:::
::: Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while
::: keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight.
::: They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially
::: if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country
::: were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight.
:::
::: In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a
::: high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous.
:::
::: It's not like we
::::: go out of the way to eat fat,
:::
::: Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides
::: satiety.
:::
::: but, I would rather think we have a
::::: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not
::::: fat free.
:::
::: That works....
:::
::::: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to.
:::
::: That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet.
:::
::: I
::::: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk
::::: and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad
::::: thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best.
:::::
::::: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and
::::: the
::::: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out
::::: of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think
::::: tank" no less.
:::::
:::
::: I don't know what you're saying there.
:::
::::: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the
::::: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ).
:::::
::::: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which
::::: need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of
::::: a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low
::::: carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does
::::: that make it 'bad'?
:::::
::::: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time
::::: during
::::: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the
::::: extremes to
::::: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of
::::: foods
::::: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad
::::: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not
::::: to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is
::::: hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control!
::::: Five carbs a a
::::: week increase is not easy to pull off.
:::::
::::: Probably should not be as touchy.
:::::
::::: FWIW.
::::: Joe
:::::
::::: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of
::::: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make
::::: them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes
::::: and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys'
::::: that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked
::::: ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him
::::: there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart
::::: attack. He enjoyed food and I
::::: am glad he did.
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
::::: Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup
::::: Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast
::::: Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
:::
::
::
::
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:: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total
:: Privacy via Encryption =---

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Papa Joe wrote:
:: Hi
:: I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, in
:: reality could be, it is not necessarily so.
::
:: Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need fat
:: or
:: more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ketosis
:: gets the fat elsewhere.
::
:: However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and still
:: exist......at least I think so!
::
:: I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb individual...granted
:: for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me.
:: I do not shun fat but do not look for it either.
:
What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of calories
comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does not imply
eating a lot of fat.

If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your eating for
a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high fat. So
unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies with no dressing,
you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat.

.........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies with
no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk, Strawberries,
and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods. If one is
in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from the
'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with some
unavoidable fat.....

If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that may
be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating
habits.

Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested, but
that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and weight
loss. He did not say High Fat.

I like this ng.
Joe
you don't have to
hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it is fairly
easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My sat fat
intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories.


:
:: FWIW.
:: Joe
::
::
::
:: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:
::
::: Papa Joe wrote:
::::: Hi
::::: I read an
:::::
:::
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca
::: rb_trend.aspx)
::::: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back
::::: against low carbing..which is OK.
:::::
::::: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I
::::: know it is for me anyway--it goes:
:::::
::::: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it
::::: is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our
::::: culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways
::::: Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that
::::: organized the event."
:::
:::
::: The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat
::: diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is
::: true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is
::: the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it
::: comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of
::: calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do
::: well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin
::: resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too.
:::
:::
:::::
::::: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat
::::: are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.
:::
::: That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not
::: eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of
::: carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of
::: BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not
::: hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight.
:::
::: Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while
::: keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight.
::: They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially
::: if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country
::: were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight.
:::
::: In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a
::: high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous.
:::
::: It's not like we
::::: go out of the way to eat fat,
:::
::: Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides
::: satiety.
:::
::: but, I would rather think we have a
::::: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not
::::: fat free.
:::
::: That works....
:::
::::: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to.
:::
::: That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet.
:::
::: I
::::: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk
::::: and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad
::::: thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best.
:::::
::::: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and
::::: the
::::: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out
::::: of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think
::::: tank" no less.
:::::
:::
::: I don't know what you're saying there.
:::
::::: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the
::::: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ).
:::::
::::: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which
::::: need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of
::::: a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low
::::: carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does
::::: that make it 'bad'?
:::::
::::: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time
::::: during
::::: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the
::::: extremes to
::::: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of
::::: foods
::::: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad
::::: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not
::::: to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is
::::: hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control!
::::: Five carbs a a
::::: week increase is not easy to pull off.
:::::
::::: Probably should not be as touchy.
:::::
::::: FWIW.
::::: Joe
:::::
::::: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of
::::: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make
::::: them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes
::::: and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys'
::::: that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked
::::: ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him
::::: there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart
::::: attack. He enjoyed food and I
::::: am glad he did.
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
::::: Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup
::::: Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast
::::: Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
:::
::
::
::
:: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
:: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
:: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total
:: Privacy via Encryption =---




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Papa Joe wrote:
:: Hi
:: I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, in
:: reality could be, it is not necessarily so.
::
:: Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need fat
:: or
:: more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ketosis
:: gets the fat elsewhere.
::
:: However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and still
:: exist......at least I think so!
::
:: I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb individual...granted
:: for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me.
:: I do not shun fat but do not look for it either.
:
What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of calories
comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does not imply
eating a lot of fat.

If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your eating for
a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high fat. So
unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies with no dressing,
you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat.

.........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies with
no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk, Strawberries,
and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods. If one is
in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from the
'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with some
unavoidable fat.....

If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that may
be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating
habits.

Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested, but
that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and weight
loss. He did not say High Fat.

I like this ng.
Joe
you don't have to
hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it is fairly
easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My sat fat
intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories.


:
:: FWIW.
:: Joe
::
::
::
:: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:
::
::: Papa Joe wrote:
::::: Hi
::::: I read an
:::::
:::
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca
::: rb_trend.aspx)
::::: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back
::::: against low carbing..which is OK.
:::::
::::: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I
::::: know it is for me anyway--it goes:
:::::
::::: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it
::::: is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our
::::: culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways
::::: Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that
::::: organized the event."
:::
:::
::: The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat
::: diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is
::: true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is
::: the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it
::: comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of
::: calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do
::: well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin
::: resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too.
:::
:::
:::::
::::: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat
::::: are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.
:::
::: That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not
::: eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of
::: carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of
::: BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not
::: hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight.
:::
::: Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while
::: keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight.
::: They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially
::: if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country
::: were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight.
:::
::: In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a
::: high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous.
:::
::: It's not like we
::::: go out of the way to eat fat,
:::
::: Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides
::: satiety.
:::
::: but, I would rather think we have a
::::: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not
::::: fat free.
:::
::: That works....
:::
::::: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to.
:::
::: That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet.
:::
::: I
::::: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk
::::: and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad
::::: thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best.
:::::
::::: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and
::::: the
::::: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out
::::: of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think
::::: tank" no less.
:::::
:::
::: I don't know what you're saying there.
:::
::::: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the
::::: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ).
:::::
::::: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which
::::: need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of
::::: a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low
::::: carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does
::::: that make it 'bad'?
:::::
::::: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time
::::: during
::::: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the
::::: extremes to
::::: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of
::::: foods
::::: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad
::::: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not
::::: to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is
::::: hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control!
::::: Five carbs a a
::::: week increase is not easy to pull off.
:::::
::::: Probably should not be as touchy.
:::::
::::: FWIW.
::::: Joe
:::::
::::: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of
::::: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make
::::: them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes
::::: and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys'
::::: that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked
::::: ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him
::::: there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart
::::: attack. He enjoyed food and I
::::: am glad he did.
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
::::: Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup
::::: Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast
::::: Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
:::
::
::
::
:: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
:: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
:: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total
:: Privacy via Encryption =---




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Got the ketchup...some hamburger and made a delicious hamburger with
two slices of Land o Lakes cheese on two slices of low carb bread!
Delicious!!

I find that a number of low carb products use splendra....wonder how
long it will be before they decide, after X period of time, that one
leg will get longer than the other because of it?
Actually, the products I see it in are pretty good--the skippy peanut
butter being a good example--the ketchup, while good, is not the
primary focus of the meal like the peanut butter is.

Anyway, if you find a low carb popcorn.......or potato.....

Thanks Chet.
Joe

5 Nov 2004 05:37:24 -0800, (Chet Hayes) wrote:

"Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need
so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad
diet? "

Heh Papa, have you tried the Heinz LC ketchup? Tastes just like the regular to me.



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Papa Joe wrote:
|| On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
|| wrote:
||
||| Papa Joe wrote:
||||| Hi
||||| I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it,
||||| in
||||| reality could be, it is not necessarily so.
|||||
||||| Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need
||||| fat
||||| or
||||| more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in
||||| ketosis
||||| gets the fat elsewhere.
|||||
||||| However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and
||||| still exist......at least I think so!
|||||
||||| I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb
||||| individual...granted
||||| for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me.
||||| I do not shun fat but do not look for it either.
||||
||| What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of
||| calories
||| comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does
||| not imply eating a lot of fat.
|||
||| If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your
||| eating for
||| a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high
||| fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies
||| with no dressing,
||| you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat.
||
|| ........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies with
|| no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk, Strawberries,
|| and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods.

I'm sorry, but i don't understand what you mean.

If one
|| is
|| in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from the
|| 'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with some
|| unavoidable fat.....

? Again, I don't follow you. On a typical LC, Atkins style diet, fat is not
restricted, carbs are. So if you eat meat, cheese, eggs, cream, fatty fish,
nuts, etc, then you're going to be eating a goodly amount of fat. Not neces
sarily a lot of fat, because if your goal is weight loss then carb
restriction will likely enable you to eat less food, and those lose weight.

||
|| If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that may
|| be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating
|| habits.

Okay.

||
|| Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested, but
|| that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and weight
|| loss. He did not say High Fat.

What is a sensible amount of fat and what is high fat? I gave you my
definition of high fat. If you are getting enough protein in your diet,
then a sensible fat intake may be upto the amount it takes to maintain your
current weight. Fat, like carbs, aren't inherently evil.

||
|| I like this ng.
|| Joe
|| you don't have to
||| hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it
||| is fairly
||| easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My
||| sat fat intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories.
|||
|||
||||
||||| FWIW.
||||| Joe
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||| On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
||||| wrote:
|||||
|||||| Papa Joe wrote:
|||||||| Hi
|||||||| I read an
||||||||
||||||
|||
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca
|||||| rb_trend.aspx)
|||||||| that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back
|||||||| against low carbing..which is OK.
||||||||
|||||||| But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably
|||||||| incorrect--I
|||||||| know it is for me anyway--it goes:
||||||||
|||||||| "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact
|||||||| it
|||||||| is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our
|||||||| culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways
|||||||| Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank
|||||||| that
|||||||| organized the event."
||||||
||||||
|||||| The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a
|||||| high-fat
|||||| diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is
|||||| true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It
|||||| is
|||||| the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because
|||||| it
|||||| comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of
|||||| calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do
|||||| well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin
|||||| resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too.
||||||
||||||
||||||||
|||||||| I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I
|||||||| eat
|||||||| are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.
||||||
|||||| That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not
|||||| eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of
|||||| carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization
|||||| of
|||||| BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not
|||||| hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight.
||||||
|||||| Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake
|||||| while
|||||| keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight.
|||||| They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before
|||||| (especially
|||||| if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country
|||||| were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight.
||||||
|||||| In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a
|||||| high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous.
||||||
|||||| It's not like we
|||||||| go out of the way to eat fat,
||||||
|||||| Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it
|||||| provides
|||||| satiety.
||||||
|||||| but, I would rather think we have a
|||||||| handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are
|||||||| not
|||||||| fat free.
||||||
|||||| That works....
||||||
|||||||| Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to.
||||||
|||||| That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC
|||||| diet.
||||||
|||||| I
|||||||| do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb
|||||||| milk
|||||||| and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad
|||||||| thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best.
||||||||
|||||||| I think that some people are really stretching this food thing
|||||||| and
|||||||| the
|||||||| right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit
|||||||| out
|||||||| of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues
|||||||| think
|||||||| tank" no less.
||||||||
||||||
|||||| I don't know what you're saying there.
||||||
|||||||| Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the
|||||||| website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ).
||||||||
|||||||| Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which
|||||||| need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part
|||||||| of
|||||||| a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low
|||||||| carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular'
|||||||| bread--does
|||||||| that make it 'bad'?
||||||||
|||||||| Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time
|||||||| during
|||||||| which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the
|||||||| extremes to
|||||||| be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best
|||||||| of
|||||||| foods
|||||||| out there, which may include low carb components, not to be
|||||||| bad
|||||||| thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it
|||||||| not
|||||||| to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is
|||||||| hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control!
|||||||| Five carbs a a
|||||||| week increase is not easy to pull off.
||||||||
|||||||| Probably should not be as touchy.
||||||||
|||||||| FWIW.
|||||||| Joe
||||||||
|||||||| ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of
|||||||| each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make
|||||||| them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset
|||||||| diabetes
|||||||| and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys'
|||||||| that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked
|||||||| ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him
|||||||| there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart
|||||||| attack. He enjoyed food and I
|||||||| am glad he did.
||||||||
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
|||||||| Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup
|||||||| Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast
|||||||| Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
||||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
||||| Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup
||||| Service in the
||||| World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms -
||||| Total
||||| Privacy via Encryption =---
|||
||
||
||
|| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
|| News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
|| World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total
|| Privacy via Encryption =---

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:05:00 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Papa Joe wrote:
|| On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
|| wrote:
||
||| Papa Joe wrote:
||||| Hi
||||| I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it,
||||| in
||||| reality could be, it is not necessarily so.
|||||
||||| Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need
||||| fat
||||| or
||||| more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in
||||| ketosis
||||| gets the fat elsewhere.
|||||
||||| However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and
||||| still exist......at least I think so!
|||||
||||| I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb
||||| individual...granted
||||| for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me.
||||| I do not shun fat but do not look for it either.
||||
||| What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of
||| calories
||| comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does
||| not imply eating a lot of fat.
|||
||| If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your
||| eating for
||| a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high
||| fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies
||| with no dressing,
||| you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat.
||
|| ........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies with
|| no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk, Strawberries,
|| and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods.

I'm sorry, but i don't understand what you mean.
*********...I am just taking your words "Most foods on a LC diet
other than veggies are high| fat. So unless you're only eating lean
meat, lean fish & veggies" and saying I don't agree entirely, that's
all. That is what I eat and it/they are not what most would call high
fat. Yes, I know that Atkins does not restrict fat but in his book he
also uses 'sensible' a lot--I don't fill up on bacon and do look for
the leaner hamburger, but, mostly I eat what you refer to as high
fat--(Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high
fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies
with no dressing" and disagreeing a bit as I do not consider them
high fat.


|| is
|| in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from the
|| 'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with some
|| unavoidable fat.....

? Again, I don't follow you. On a typical LC, Atkins style diet, fat is not
restricted, carbs are.

...again, I am referring to Low carb and not Atkins--fat should be
restricted, IMHO, as excess of anything other than money or ??? is not
good.
I think we are all here because we know carbs are restricted--hence
the title of the ng...


So if you eat meat, cheese, eggs, cream, fatty fish,(he(Atkins)
mentions the kinds of fish to avoid(fatty specimens)). The cream and
cheese I do not restrict but I am usually full so eating is just out
of habit! The eggs are one thing I have cut way back on since finding
the variety of low carb cereals--they are enjoyable with the low carb
milk and some strawberries, so the breakfast variety is opened a
little wider.
nuts, etc, then you're going to be eating a goodly amount of fat. Not neces
sarily a lot of fat, because if your goal is weight loss then carb
restriction will likely enable you to eat less food, and those lose weight.

||
|| If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that may
|| be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating
|| habits.

Okay.

||
|| Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested, but
|| that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and weight
|| loss. He did not say High Fat.

What is a sensible amount of fat and what is high fat? I gave you my
definition of high fat. If you are getting enough protein in your diet,
then a sensible fat intake may be upto the amount it takes to maintain your
current weight. Fat, like carbs, aren't inherently evil.

I look at it this way, which suits me and I cannot get an answer if it
is correct or not:

If I can make the ketostix 'show' a bit, I am on the edge of having
enough carbs to maintain ketosis and, if I am either not gaining
weight or continue to lose, then I must not be eating very much fat.
It works for me. My only concern, which I stated in an earlier post,
is how much of a problem is long term ketosis.....and, what is long
term? Now, I am eating an awful lot of food, not gaining weight and
keeping either a trace or better on the stix.

Heck, here is yesterdays eats:
Breakfast-large bowl of cereal with refill--say 15 grams....
no lunch...did not feel like eating.
supper--2 slices of low carb bread(5 grams per slice) with sausage
and peppers(12)..2 glasses of low carb/low fat milk(6) and an
apple(12)..3 gram low carb candy bar at 1145PM...Low Carb Nacho Chip
'Crumbs'...5
....days total about 53.

I spent the day feeling filled and went to bed the same way. Woke up
and was at the same weight as the last two days.
As soon as I finsh the carton of low fat low carb milk, I am going to
'regular' low fat milk to reduce the container congestion in the
'fridge.
To me, that is both a lot of food and typical for me and not high fat.
Sausage was pretty lean but still had fat content.

Heck we all are on the same page here. I really appreciate having a
place to read, discuss and look for insights...and add posts myself.
Thankfully there is a ng like this one where we can share.
I think usenet is the best part of the 'Internet'.

I thank all for their input and for putting up with mine.
Joe


||
|| I like this ng.
|| Joe
|| you don't have to
||| hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it
||| is fairly
||| easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My
||| sat fat intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories.
|||
|||
||||
||||| FWIW.
||||| Joe
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||| On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
||||| wrote:
|||||
|||||| Papa Joe wrote:
|||||||| Hi
|||||||| I read an
||||||||
||||||
|||
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca
|||||| rb_trend.aspx)
|||||||| that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back
|||||||| against low carbing..which is OK.
||||||||
|||||||| But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably
|||||||| incorrect--I
|||||||| know it is for me anyway--it goes:
||||||||
|||||||| "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact
|||||||| it
|||||||| is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our
|||||||| culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways
|||||||| Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank
|||||||| that
|||||||| organized the event."
||||||
||||||
|||||| The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a
|||||| high-fat
|||||| diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is
|||||| true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It
|||||| is
|||||| the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because
|||||| it
|||||| comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of
|||||| calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do
|||||| well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin
|||||| resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too.
||||||
||||||
||||||||
|||||||| I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I
|||||||| eat
|||||||| are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.
||||||
|||||| That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not
|||||| eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of
|||||| carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization
|||||| of
|||||| BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not
|||||| hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight.
||||||
|||||| Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake
|||||| while
|||||| keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight.
|||||| They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before
|||||| (especially
|||||| if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country
|||||| were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight.
||||||
|||||| In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a
|||||| high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous.
||||||
|||||| It's not like we
|||||||| go out of the way to eat fat,
||||||
|||||| Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it
|||||| provides
|||||| satiety.
||||||
|||||| but, I would rather think we have a
|||||||| handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are
|||||||| not
|||||||| fat free.
||||||
|||||| That works....
||||||
|||||||| Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to.
||||||
|||||| That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC
|||||| diet.
||||||
|||||| I
|||||||| do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb
|||||||| milk
|||||||| and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad
|||||||| thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best.
||||||||
|||||||| I think that some people are really stretching this food thing
|||||||| and
|||||||| the
|||||||| right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit
|||||||| out
|||||||| of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues
|||||||| think
|||||||| tank" no less.
||||||||
||||||
|||||| I don't know what you're saying there.
||||||
|||||||| Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the
|||||||| website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ).
||||||||
|||||||| Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which
|||||||| need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part
|||||||| of
|||||||| a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low
|||||||| carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular'
|||||||| bread--does
|||||||| that make it 'bad'?
||||||||
|||||||| Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time
|||||||| during
|||||||| which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the
|||||||| extremes to
|||||||| be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best
|||||||| of
|||||||| foods
|||||||| out there, which may include low carb components, not to be
|||||||| bad
|||||||| thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it
|||||||| not
|||||||| to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is
|||||||| hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control!
|||||||| Five carbs a a
|||||||| week increase is not easy to pull off.
||||||||
|||||||| Probably should not be as touchy.
||||||||
|||||||| FWIW.
|||||||| Joe
||||||||
|||||||| ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of
|||||||| each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make
|||||||| them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset
|||||||| diabetes
|||||||| and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys'
|||||||| that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked
|||||||| ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him
|||||||| there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart
|||||||| attack. He enjoyed food and I
|||||||| am glad he did.
||||||||
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
|||||||| Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup
|||||||| Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast
|||||||| Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
||||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
||||| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
||||| Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup
||||| Service in the
||||| World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms -
||||| Total
||||| Privacy via Encryption =---
|||
||
||
||
|| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
|| News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
|| World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total
|| Privacy via Encryption =---




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Hahahahahaha. I love it when the high-carb industry screams as they are
dying. Why are pasta peddlers in Italy so concerned about how Americans
eat anyhow? I thought that Europeans hated Americans and didn't care
for what they did?

In the summer of 2000 I lost 38 pounds by going low-carb. In order to
impress/shock my family and friends I would melt a big slab of butter
and pour it on everything that I ate. They all claimed that I would die
of a heart attack, though my blood pressure was as fit as a professional
athlete's when all was said and done.

The high-carb industry is conspiring to get the government to put a tax
on "high fat" foods. These assholes pay lip service to the "wonders of
the free market" on TV but they are hardcore communists trying to get
the government to manipulate the market in favor of them.

Die, high-carbers, die. I shed nary a tear for you...

Papa Joe wrote:

Hi
I read an
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...arb_trend.aspx)
that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back against
low carbing..which is OK.

But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I know
it is for me anyway--it goes:

"How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it is a
dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our culture?" railed
K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways Preservation Trust, the
Boston-based food issues think tank that organized the event."

I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are
any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.It's not like we
go out of the way to eat fat, but, I would rather think we have a
handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not fat
free. Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. I
do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk and
the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad thing
because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best.

I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and the
right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out of
control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think tank"
no less.

Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the
website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ).

Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need
so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad
diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low carb--maybe the
slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does that make it 'bad'?

Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time during
which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the extremes to
be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of foods
out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad
thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not to
be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is hard to
move from it as I do not have really good self control! Five carbs a a
week increase is not easy to pull off.

Probably should not be as touchy.

FWIW.
Joe

ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of
each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make them
both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes and into
cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' that it was
not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ketchup on his
hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him there)....he passed
away at 80 with his first and only heart attack. He enjoyed food and I
am glad he did.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Hahahahahaha. I love it when the high-carb industry screams as they are
dying. Why are pasta peddlers in Italy so concerned about how Americans
eat anyhow? I thought that Europeans hated Americans and didn't care
for what they did?

In the summer of 2000 I lost 38 pounds by going low-carb. In order to
impress/shock my family and friends I would melt a big slab of butter
and pour it on everything that I ate. They all claimed that I would die
of a heart attack, though my blood pressure was as fit as a professional
athlete's when all was said and done.

The high-carb industry is conspiring to get the government to put a tax
on "high fat" foods. These assholes pay lip service to the "wonders of
the free market" on TV but they are hardcore communists trying to get
the government to manipulate the market in favor of them.

Die, high-carbers, die. I shed nary a tear for you...

Papa Joe wrote:

Hi
I read an
article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...arb_trend.aspx)
that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back against
low carbing..which is OK.

But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I know
it is for me anyway--it goes:

"How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it is a
dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our culture?" railed
K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways Preservation Trust, the
Boston-based food issues think tank that organized the event."

I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are
any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.It's not like we
go out of the way to eat fat, but, I would rather think we have a
handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not fat
free. Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. I
do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk and
the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad thing
because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best.

I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and the
right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out of
control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think tank"
no less.

Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the
website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ).

Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need
so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad
diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low carb--maybe the
slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does that make it 'bad'?

Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time during
which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the extremes to
be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of foods
out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad
thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not to
be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is hard to
move from it as I do not have really good self control! Five carbs a a
week increase is not easy to pull off.

Probably should not be as touchy.

FWIW.
Joe

ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of
each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make them
both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes and into
cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' that it was
not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ketchup on his
hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him there)....he passed
away at 80 with his first and only heart attack. He enjoyed food and I
am glad he did.

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