Take this for what it's worth.....

Joe,
You know full well what lead to your heart attack - at least you'll
admit it sometimes.
***************************
Posted by you on 8/19/2004:
"Thanks. I hope I feel the way you describe in a year or so.
Right now it is over three weeks since the actual operation and
I feel a lot better than I did, but not as good as I think I should.
It's slow and tough, but I look forward to feeling better and
being able to exercise, etc. I am also diabetic and had it for
12 years never in control...that's what did me in. My heart attack
should have killed me based on the amount of damage I had,
so my take on that is I actually had a very strong heart or I would
not have survived. Thanks for the kind words. "
*************************************
I can well imagine the fear your heart attack caused in you. I can
also imagine
that fear of that magnitude might well lead to irrational
actions/thoughts.
If I had to guess I'd say you may have focused on the 2 months of low
carbing
as something you could control. i.e. "If I don't low-carb any more I
won't have another heart attack. I'll be safe."
Sort of the "Bargaining" stage of grief.
Goodness knows you can't change 12 years of uncontrolled diabetes, nor
can
you control your genetics. Under the circumstances it's probably
miraculous
that believing 2 months of any sort of diet had any real effect on the
development
of your heart disease is the only "out there" stuff you've posted.
To wrap it up:
*I'm sorry you had to go through the whole ordeal.
*You *must* get your blood sugar under control.
*The biggest single person in control of your health is you. Act like
it.
Good luck.
Carmen

jtees4 wrote:

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 01:51:25 GMT, "Carmen"
wrote:


On 20-Aug-2004, jtees4 wrote:


On 19-Aug-2004, jtees4 wrote:


I just got back from the hospital. Multiple heart attacks,
quadruple bypass surgery and reconstruction of the left
ventricle. I should
not be alive. My wife has lost 50lbs. on a low carb diet over the
course of about a year. I tried it for 2 months before the heart
attacks, I am a diabetic for 12 years. What I know for sure is
low carb +
diabeties = bad news for me. The funny thing is since I'm out of
the hospital I am supposed to eat 60 carbs per meal + a 37 carb
snack
at night. Low carb my ass.

Let me see if I have your version of events correct. You ate
poorly enough to get overweight for God knows how many *years*
(plus you
were a diabetic) before you did a whole 2 MONTHS low carbing.
You've
convinced yourself that those 2 MONTHS are what lead to your heart
attack? Is that the gist of it?

Carmen

Yes that is...except for the fact that I did not eat poorly and was
not overweight (except for a short time as a kid)). Let's just make
up some "facts" why don't we.

Posted by you on 5/27/2004:
"Good for you. Hope to join you soon. Haven't seen 200 in 11 years,
but I'm getting there."
You aren't overweight but you were dieting to lose weight? It doesn't
wash.
You also haven't answered the larger question Joe. Do you *really*
think that two months low carbing is what caused your heart attack?
Carmen


To answer your last question........No I don't think two months of low
carbing caused my heart attack. I do think it sped things up, however.

What horse****. Clearly you don't know what a heart attack actually is
and clearly you don't know what restricted carbs have to do with anything.

Just because you believe it doesn't mean anyone has to respect an
obviously stupid idea.

Have a lovely day.

Pastorio

I did the low carb thing to try and bring my sugar down, not to lose
weight. If I lost weight I would have considered it an added benefit.
I actually did bring my sugar down on the low carb. That's why I got
encouraged and kept doing it even after I started to have low energy
and generally feel crappy. I am not going to argue with you, I am in
no mood or shape, nor do I have the time to look up old posts etc. You
said, "You aren't overweight but you were dieting to lose weight? It
doesn't wash". I don't believe that I said I was dieting to lose
weight. Also, please re-read my subject heading for this post....."
Take this for what it's worth.....". Think about why I said it that
way...;.because it was meant as a warning for the good of everyone.
For what it's worth implies that I am not stating facts, but something
that may have some meaning to some people here. I'm glad you like low
carbing, good for you. I believe that in the long run it is not
healthy, though I may be wrong. Have a good healthy life.


*-------------------------------*
NEVER FORGET!!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/01...toyen.amy.html

jtees4 wrote:

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 01:51:25 GMT, "Carmen"
wrote:


On 20-Aug-2004, jtees4 wrote:


On 19-Aug-2004, jtees4 wrote:


I just got back from the hospital. Multiple heart attacks,
quadruple bypass surgery and reconstruction of the left
ventricle. I should
not be alive. My wife has lost 50lbs. on a low carb diet over the
course of about a year. I tried it for 2 months before the heart
attacks, I am a diabetic for 12 years. What I know for sure is
low carb +
diabeties = bad news for me. The funny thing is since I'm out of
the hospital I am supposed to eat 60 carbs per meal + a 37 carb
snack
at night. Low carb my ass.

Let me see if I have your version of events correct. You ate
poorly enough to get overweight for God knows how many *years*
(plus you
were a diabetic) before you did a whole 2 MONTHS low carbing.
You've
convinced yourself that those 2 MONTHS are what lead to your heart
attack? Is that the gist of it?

Carmen

Yes that is...except for the fact that I did not eat poorly and was
not overweight (except for a short time as a kid)). Let's just make
up some "facts" why don't we.

Posted by you on 5/27/2004:
"Good for you. Hope to join you soon. Haven't seen 200 in 11 years,
but I'm getting there."
You aren't overweight but you were dieting to lose weight? It doesn't
wash.
You also haven't answered the larger question Joe. Do you *really*
think that two months low carbing is what caused your heart attack?
Carmen


To answer your last question........No I don't think two months of low
carbing caused my heart attack. I do think it sped things up, however.

What horse****. Clearly you don't know what a heart attack actually is
and clearly you don't know what restricted carbs have to do with anything.

Just because you believe it doesn't mean anyone has to respect an
obviously stupid idea.

Have a lovely day.

Pastorio

I did the low carb thing to try and bring my sugar down, not to lose
weight. If I lost weight I would have considered it an added benefit.
I actually did bring my sugar down on the low carb. That's why I got
encouraged and kept doing it even after I started to have low energy
and generally feel crappy. I am not going to argue with you, I am in
no mood or shape, nor do I have the time to look up old posts etc. You
said, "You aren't overweight but you were dieting to lose weight? It
doesn't wash". I don't believe that I said I was dieting to lose
weight. Also, please re-read my subject heading for this post....."
Take this for what it's worth.....". Think about why I said it that
way...;.because it was meant as a warning for the good of everyone.
For what it's worth implies that I am not stating facts, but something
that may have some meaning to some people here. I'm glad you like low
carbing, good for you. I believe that in the long run it is not
healthy, though I may be wrong. Have a good healthy life.


*-------------------------------*
NEVER FORGET!!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/01...toyen.amy.html

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:08:58 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
wrote:

Did you have a heart attack because you're stupid, or did you get stupid
because you had a heart attack?

What a nice person you are.


*-------------------------------*
NEVER FORGET!!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/01...toyen.amy.html

What a stupid person you are.

--
Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at
birth?


"jtees4" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:08:58 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
wrote:

Did you have a heart attack because you're stupid, or did you get stupid
because you had a heart attack?

What a nice person you are.


*-------------------------------*
NEVER FORGET!!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/01...toyen.amy.html

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:41:30 GMT, "Carmen"
wrote:

Joe,
You know full well what lead to your heart attack - at least you'll
admit it sometimes.
***************************
Posted by you on 8/19/2004:
"Thanks. I hope I feel the way you describe in a year or so.
Right now it is over three weeks since the actual operation and
I feel a lot better than I did, but not as good as I think I should.
It's slow and tough, but I look forward to feeling better and
being able to exercise, etc. I am also diabetic and had it for
12 years never in control...that's what did me in. My heart attack
should have killed me based on the amount of damage I had,
so my take on that is I actually had a very strong heart or I would
not have survived. Thanks for the kind words. "
*************************************
I can well imagine the fear your heart attack caused in you. I can
also imagine
that fear of that magnitude might well lead to irrational
actions/thoughts.
If I had to guess I'd say you may have focused on the 2 months of low
carbing
as something you could control. i.e. "If I don't low-carb any more I
won't have another heart attack. I'll be safe."
Sort of the "Bargaining" stage of grief.
Goodness knows you can't change 12 years of uncontrolled diabetes, nor
can
you control your genetics. Under the circumstances it's probably
miraculous
that believing 2 months of any sort of diet had any real effect on the
development
of your heart disease is the only "out there" stuff you've posted.
To wrap it up:
*I'm sorry you had to go through the whole ordeal.
*You *must* get your blood sugar under control.
*The biggest single person in control of your health is you. Act like
it.
Good luck.
Carmen

Look what I said in my post which you quoted above-"I am also diabetic
and had it for 12 years never in control...that's what did me in." I
said the diabetes did me in and you keep insisting that I said the low
carb for two months did me in. I never said that, and if I did, I
certainly did not mean it. I fully understand that my heart attack was
caused by my diabetes.
As for this part...
To wrap it up:
*I'm sorry you had to go through the whole ordeal.
*You *must* get your blood sugar under control.
*The biggest single person in control of your health is you. Act like
it.
Good luck.
Carmen

I agree...and thank you for the kind words.
Take care. Joe T.


*-------------------------------*
NEVER FORGET!!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/01...toyen.amy.html

Just because you believe it doesn't mean anyone has to respect an
obviously stupid idea.

Have a lovely day.

Pastorio


I didn't ask anyone to respect or believe anything....as you said- I
stated what I believe. If it's obviously stupid to you, great. Thats
why the heading was " Take this for what it's worth....." not" This
is a fact and you better believe it".There were professionals in the
hospital who did not think it was stupid. In fact, many of them feel
that low carb is not healthy at all. My last morning in the hospital I
was lectured by a nutritionist to make sure I get enough carbs- 60 per
meal which seems like a lot to me, but I think I'll listen to them
before I decide to listen to you. You have a nice day too.


*-------------------------------*
NEVER FORGET!!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/01...toyen.amy.html

Hi,
On 21-Aug-2004, jtees4 wrote:

Look what I said in my post which you quoted above-"I am also
diabetic
and had it for 12 years never in control...that's what did me in." I
said the diabetes did me in and you keep insisting that I said the
low carb for two months did me in. I never said that, and if I did,
I
certainly did not mean it. I fully understand that my heart attack
was caused by my diabetes.

Ah, but you said your diabetes was to blame in another group, not this
one. In here you said
"What I know for sure is low carb + diabeties = bad news for me."
and
"To answer your last question........No I don't think two months of
low carbing caused my heart attack. I do think it sped things up,
however."
Those statements seem to clearly say you blame low carbing (at least
in part) for your heart attack.
That's why you've gotten the reaction(s) you have. Nobody can
disabuse a *belief* that you may have - primarily because beliefs do
not require a basis in fact - but they can dispute it for the benefit
of those reading the thread.
In another part of the thread you mentioned that some of the people
involved in your care encouraged your belief that low carb played a
part in your heart attack. Some of them no doubt knew better
(doctors, nurses) but there's something you have to understand. A
person in your position is at one of the most vulnerable moments of
their life while they're lying in the hospital. Mentally it's not
going to do you any good if they tell you, "Eat your vegetables, watch
your weight and blood sugar, get regular exercise and this could
happen again anyway. Too bad about your genetics." Where's the
incentive to improve your lifestyle then? It's better for you in the
long run if they tell you that low carbing put you in the hospital
then tell you what you should be doing (omitting the part about it
possibly happening again anyway).
The first part is great for invoking some guilt, and that makes it
more likely that you'll make some effort to abide by the second part.
Machiavellian, true, but think about who you're dealing with. People
who decided early on that they were smart enough that (with enough
training and practice) they could take the health and lives of fellow
human beings into their hands and stand a good chance of improving
and/or saving them. Have you ever wondered what sort of mindset it
takes to think "I can take knives to my fellow human beings and leave
them better off for the experience"?
I'm not of the mindset that everyone should low carb. It may not be a
good way for you to go, but there are more than a few diabetics in
here who found it was right for them. I'm a diabetic too. For me the
last 5 and a half years of low carbing have given me an HBA1c of 4.9%
My HDL cholesterol more than *doubled* while my LDL dropped a few
points (staying essentially at a normal level). My overall cardiac
risk is now much lower than the average woman my age - never mind
comparing me to other diabetics. My yearly diabetic eye exams
continue to show no changes. The cool thing is the doc can't tell I'm
a diabetic unless I tell them. :-) Dropping 100 pounds was nice too.
As for this part...
To wrap it up:
*I'm sorry you had to go through the whole ordeal.
*You *must* get your blood sugar under control.
*The biggest single person in control of your health is you. Act
like it.
Good luck.
Carmen

I agree...and thank you for the kind words.
Take care. Joe T.

I'm not all claws and teeth. G BTW, remember what I said above
about people who become docs?
I'm a senior pre-med student. It's for your own good. ;-)

take care,
Carmen

Hi,
On 21-Aug-2004, "ClabberHead 4.01"
wrote:

WOW! Remind me to never get into an argument with you!!!

Hmm. Why? In differences of opinion I can agree to disagree
usually. It's when someone starts dissembling that my posts start
to get more
pointed.
I've never seen you stomping on the truth so you're safe. ;-)

It's just that when it came to that guy, you did your homework, and
caught him good! Notice he hasn't said anything else in this thread


You haven't been paying attention I see. I always do my homework -
it's the anal retentive in me. ;-)

Take care,
Carmen

jtees4 wrote:

Just because you believe it doesn't mean anyone has to respect an
obviously stupid idea.

Have a lovely day.

Pastorio

I didn't ask anyone to respect or believe anything....as you said- I
stated what I believe.

You believe it out of ignorance and laziness. It's your life and
you're entrusting it to others without question. You're not helping
yourself to understand your condition and what you can do about it.

If it's obviously stupid to you, great. Thats
why the heading was " Take this for what it's worth....." not" This
is a fact and you better believe it".There were professionals in the
hospital who did not think it was stupid. In fact, many of them feel
that low carb is not healthy at all. My last morning in the hospital I
was lectured by a nutritionist to make sure I get enough carbs- 60 per
meal which seems like a lot to me, but I think I'll listen to them
before I decide to listen to you. You have a nice day too.

If you eat 60 grams of carb per meal and you're diabetic, the value of
that nutritionist's advice might, unfortunately, be clear very soon.
You might want to talk with other diabetics about that.

These are the same people who are making a last-ditch stand to insist
on the utterly discredited food pyramid. Times change and the research
says they're not right.

Pastorio