Take this for what it's worth.....

Bob (this one) wrote:

jtees4 wrote:

Just because you believe it doesn't mean anyone has to respect an
obviously stupid idea.

Have a lovely day.

Pastorio

I didn't ask anyone to respect or believe anything....as you said- I
stated what I believe.


You believe it out of ignorance and laziness. It's your life and
you're entrusting it to others without question. You're not helping
yourself to understand your condition and what you can do about it.

If it's obviously stupid to you, great. Thats
why the heading was " Take this for what it's worth....." not" This
is a fact and you better believe it".There were professionals in the
hospital who did not think it was stupid. In fact, many of them feel
that low carb is not healthy at all. My last morning in the hospital I
was lectured by a nutritionist to make sure I get enough carbs- 60 per
meal which seems like a lot to me, but I think I'll listen to them
before I decide to listen to you. You have a nice day too.


If you eat 60 grams of carb per meal and you're diabetic, the value of
that nutritionist's advice might, unfortunately, be clear very soon.
You might want to talk with other diabetics about that.

These are the same people who are making a last-ditch stand to insist
on the utterly discredited food pyramid. Times change and the research
says they're not right.

Pastorio

Dear Bob,

Thanks for your reply. I am diabetic and my health DOES rely on honest
and accurate information.
I've never understood people who think it's fun to joke around or put
their own spin on information I need to develop the best basic health
plan I can. And since diabetes in an ongoing and constantly changing
health situation, this is a daily effort for me and everyone else who
has diabetes. You're right about the old food pyramid; it was always
part of the problem, not part of the solution. It's only been recently
that food experts have realized and acknowledged that fact.

It does take time and effort to develop a good plan, and that energy
must be spent every day... no vacation days on this one. It's a lot
easier to rationalize that you're doing the right thing by following
someone else's advice (even when you know it's wrong). Then when things
go wrong you can blame someone else besides yourself.

We all know that 60g of carbs a meal is way off base; that's not
low-carb. God knows I would love to use that excuse to have more
noodles, biscuits, or macroni&cheese with my meals, but I have to be
honest with myself and reject that amount of carbs. My mind might want
to play games with the numbers, but my body does not play games with the
numbers, no matter what. If I want to consider 60 or more carbs per DAY
at times, I can do that. But not on a regular basis. And I have to be
honest about counting the carbs in that day's totals. Maybe once a
month I can let myself have a serving of noodles or a biscuit. That's if
I use the Dreamfields low-carb pasta or eat a half a biscuit on two
different days. What's available today in terms of options is a world
of inprovement over 10, or even 5, years ago. But that doesn't change
the numbers in terms of carbs you can eat to maintain a healthy body.
Those numbers remain the same even if the way you can adequately satisfy
those numbers has expanded. But no matter what, 60 carbs a meal? No.

But the bottom line is that it still takes your time and effort to live
a healthy life. There are some good dietary guides around: Dr. Atkins
low-carb diet, Agatston's South Beach diet, and others (Dr. Phil comes
to mind). And the new book "Atkins Diabetes Revolution" is especially
good. And, of course, there are cookbooks to go with every WOL. None
of these diets consider 60 carbs per meal to be low carb.

Barbara

jtees4 wrote in message . ..
I just got back from the hospital. Multiple heart attacks, quadruple
bypass surgery and reconstruction of the left ventricle. I should not
be alive. My wife has lost 50lbs. on a low carb diet over the course
of about a year. I tried it for 2 months before the heart attacks, I
am a diabetic for 12 years. What I know for sure is low carb +
diabeties = bad news for me. The funny thing is since I'm out of the
hospital I am supposed to eat 60 carbs per meal + a 37 carb snack at
night. Low carb my ass.

jtees4,

Hi, I'm Duffy, long time member of this group. I've been busy lately
and don't have the time to post as much as I'd like. However, your
post screamed for a response. Why? Because I don't get what part of
low carbing made you sick. Were you eating a high fat diet? Had you
had any history of heart trouble? What were your baseline numbers
before you started the program? How many carbs, fat grams and protein
grams did you eat per day during your two month stint?

For the record, I eat a low carb diet that is fairly low fat. While my
meals aren't as exiting to some people as meals and snacks on on the
Atkins plan (heavy cream, high fat cheese, heavy cream, etc is out for
me)I have a wide range of choices and can eat in just about any
restaurant in the world. I don't eat starches or processed food.

I've gone from 182 to the low 120's and kept it off for several years.
I'm healthier than I've ever been in my life. I look much better
wearing size 6 clothes than I did wearing size 16 clothes.

So I have to ask you, jtees4, what's your problem? You've identified
"LOW CARB" as the root of your problems but you haven't really told us
much. If you're going to vilify LOW CARB, share the details of your
total plan. What were you eating? Were you eating sugar alcohols? Did
you experience any spikes? Were you exercising too? These factors are
important.

Hey, low carb doesn't work for everyone. Not everyone does low carb
the same way and not everyone does it right.

Duffy
182/122
size16 - size6
since 12-01-01

jtees4 wrote in message . ..
I just got back from the hospital. Multiple heart attacks, quadruple
bypass surgery and reconstruction of the left ventricle. I should not
be alive. My wife has lost 50lbs. on a low carb diet over the course
of about a year. I tried it for 2 months before the heart attacks, I
am a diabetic for 12 years. What I know for sure is low carb +
diabeties = bad news for me. The funny thing is since I'm out of the
hospital I am supposed to eat 60 carbs per meal + a 37 carb snack at
night. Low carb my ass.

jtees4,

Hi, I'm Duffy, long time member of this group. I've been busy lately
and don't have the time to post as much as I'd like. However, your
post screamed for a response. Why? Because I don't get what part of
low carbing made you sick. Were you eating a high fat diet? Had you
had any history of heart trouble? What were your baseline numbers
before you started the program? How many carbs, fat grams and protein
grams did you eat per day during your two month stint?

For the record, I eat a low carb diet that is fairly low fat. While my
meals aren't as exiting to some people as meals and snacks on on the
Atkins plan (heavy cream, high fat cheese, heavy cream, etc is out for
me)I have a wide range of choices and can eat in just about any
restaurant in the world. I don't eat starches or processed food.

I've gone from 182 to the low 120's and kept it off for several years.
I'm healthier than I've ever been in my life. I look much better
wearing size 6 clothes than I did wearing size 16 clothes.

So I have to ask you, jtees4, what's your problem? You've identified
"LOW CARB" as the root of your problems but you haven't really told us
much. If you're going to vilify LOW CARB, share the details of your
total plan. What were you eating? Were you eating sugar alcohols? Did
you experience any spikes? Were you exercising too? These factors are
important.

Hey, low carb doesn't work for everyone. Not everyone does low carb
the same way and not everyone does it right.

Duffy
182/122
size16 - size6
since 12-01-01

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 04:21:26 -0400, Bob (this one) wrote:

and the research
says they're not right.

lol

Research reader now, huh? There's a waste of your time.

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004, jtees4 wrote:

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:08:58 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
wrote:

Did you have a heart attack because you're stupid, or did you get stupid
because you had a heart attack?

What a nice person you are.

You're just like 0 for 4 here, y'know?

Martha

--
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can
go." -- T.S. Eliot

MU wrote:

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 04:21:26 -0400, Bob (this one) wrote:

and the research says they're not right.

lol

Research reader now, huh? There's a waste of your time.

Every luddite who can't read scientific papers thinks that.
Particularly the anonymous ones who aren't proud of their
accomplishments and who are too timid to stand behind their words.

Welcome, flyweight. I guess all you need is faith to ascertain the
science you claim supports you.

Sap.

Pastorio

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:47:54 GMT, "Carmen"
wrote:

Hi,
On 21-Aug-2004, jtees4 wrote:

Look what I said in my post which you quoted above-"I am also
diabetic
and had it for 12 years never in control...that's what did me in." I
said the diabetes did me in and you keep insisting that I said the
low carb for two months did me in. I never said that, and if I did,
I
certainly did not mean it. I fully understand that my heart attack
was caused by my diabetes.

Ah, but you said your diabetes was to blame in another group, not this
one. In here you said
"What I know for sure is low carb + diabeties = bad news for me."
and
"To answer your last question........No I don't think two months of
low carbing caused my heart attack. I do think it sped things up,
however."
Those statements seem to clearly say you blame low carbing (at least
in part) for your heart attack.
That's why you've gotten the reaction(s) you have. Nobody can
disabuse a *belief* that you may have - primarily because beliefs do
not require a basis in fact - but they can dispute it for the benefit
of those reading the thread.
In another part of the thread you mentioned that some of the people
involved in your care encouraged your belief that low carb played a
part in your heart attack. Some of them no doubt knew better
(doctors, nurses) but there's something you have to understand. A
person in your position is at one of the most vulnerable moments of
their life while they're lying in the hospital. Mentally it's not
going to do you any good if they tell you, "Eat your vegetables, watch
your weight and blood sugar, get regular exercise and this could
happen again anyway. Too bad about your genetics." Where's the
incentive to improve your lifestyle then? It's better for you in the
long run if they tell you that low carbing put you in the hospital
then tell you what you should be doing (omitting the part about it
possibly happening again anyway).
The first part is great for invoking some guilt, and that makes it
more likely that you'll make some effort to abide by the second part.
Machiavellian, true, but think about who you're dealing with. People
who decided early on that they were smart enough that (with enough
training and practice) they could take the health and lives of fellow
human beings into their hands and stand a good chance of improving
and/or saving them. Have you ever wondered what sort of mindset it
takes to think "I can take knives to my fellow human beings and leave
them better off for the experience"?
I'm not of the mindset that everyone should low carb. It may not be a
good way for you to go, but there are more than a few diabetics in
here who found it was right for them. I'm a diabetic too. For me the
last 5 and a half years of low carbing have given me an HBA1c of 4.9%
My HDL cholesterol more than *doubled* while my LDL dropped a few
points (staying essentially at a normal level). My overall cardiac
risk is now much lower than the average woman my age - never mind
comparing me to other diabetics. My yearly diabetic eye exams
continue to show no changes. The cool thing is the doc can't tell I'm
a diabetic unless I tell them. :-) Dropping 100 pounds was nice too.
As for this part...
To wrap it up:
*I'm sorry you had to go through the whole ordeal.
*You *must* get your blood sugar under control.
*The biggest single person in control of your health is you. Act
like it.
Good luck.
Carmen

I agree...and thank you for the kind words.
Take care. Joe T.

I'm not all claws and teeth. G BTW, remember what I said above
about people who become docs?
I'm a senior pre-med student. It's for your own good. ;-)

take care,
Carmen


I'm glad for you as far as your diabetes. The truth is that I was
getting very encouraged about my sugar levels because when I was low
carbing, my sugar went down below 200 for the first time in years.
Then of course the heart attack happened. I actually have a strong
heart, it had to be to survive the damage I had (it was extensive,
much more than the clogged arteries). I've only been home a few weeks
and really have not even come to grips with all I've been
through...and I'll be the first to admit I am not always thinking
clearly all the time. I am still in a lot of pain from my leg and
hardly sleep at all which certainly does not help. I was very
surprised when I was told to have the 60 grams of carbs per meal...I
immediately felt that was too much. I am not against low carbing per
se, but I left out a little. My wife lost around 50 lbs., but her
energy level was way down and she didn't look healthy to me....so I
have been on her case (since before my ordeal) to eat more carbs...not
necessarily a lot, but more than she was....and she has and looks
healthier and she has not gained back any weight. I think a lot of the
problem is like with anything...degree...low carb can mean many
different amounts. Too little or too much is probably not healthy, as
it usually works with everything. Same goes for low fat diets....and
probably every other kind too. Well, the bottom line is that I am not
against low carbing....Since I know that I was able to lower my blood
sugar with it, I may even reserve the right to do it from time to time
when my sugar levels are in need. Once again, thank you for the kind
words...I'm glad we can part as friends and good luck in your medical
carreer.


*-------------------------------*
NEVER FORGET!!!
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/01...toyen.amy.html