manly men do LC

I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.

I'm appending the article instead of the link because the Post requires a
subscription.

Suddenly, It's a Guy Thing

By Judith Weinraub

In the battle of the sexes, women rule when it comes to dieting.

We've done it all our lives. We know how to count calories, weigh foods,
measure portion sizes. We've learned to choose the least fattening foods
on a menu. We know that restraint is inevitable. And we're very motivated.
At least at first.

To men, dieting seems "girlie," something they don't talk about. They
don't want to be seen eating classic diet food -- salads with dressing on
the side, vegetables without butter, fillets of fish and skinless chicken.

Then along came the Atkins diet and other low-carbohydrate, high-protein
eating plans, and things changed -- at least, that's the contention of New
York University's Amy Bentley, an associate professor in nutrition, food
studies and public health at its school of education.

The way she sees it, the current mania for low-carb diets has made
dieting politically correct for men. Suddenly a man can still be manly
even if he's on a diet: He can go out in public and carve up a hunk of red
meat for dinner. "It's made dieting more acceptable for men to think
about," she says. "It's important for men to prove that they are men in
the world we live in. To do anything female in some classes makes you
suspect -- it devalues your power."

Diets such as Atkins and South Beach severely restrict carbohydrates,
promote eating protein and recommend some fats. Anyone on such a diet is
consuming lots of meat -- not the restrained amounts allowed on low-fat
diets. And "in many cultures," says Bentley, "meat is masculine."

Eat the low-carb way, she argues, and not only are you allowed to eat all
that masculine meat. You're supposed to. "On low-carb diets," she says,
"Meat is not only not taboo. It's a good food."

That's the complete opposite of the presumption that foods high in fat
and calories aren't "diet foods" -- a point of view that women in America
have long been socialized to accept. Men, on the other hand, have been
less comfortable with the rabbit-food approach -- especially in public.
Eating a diet of red meat, bacon, eggs, nuts, cheese and butter is
acceptable, says Bentley. "Low-carb dieting gives people license to eat
foods that were tagged as forbidden in the low-fat world."

Bentley and the other people interviewed for this story are careful to
point out they are not saying all men react one way to dieting, and all
women another. But look at the powerful role models for popular diets. The
gurus of low-carb eating tend to be men, Bentley points out: the late
Robert Atkins; South Beach's creator (another doctor), Arthur Agatson; the
three doctors and one CEO of a Fortune 500 company who created Sugar
Busters. These are strong, successful male models, who promote eating
plans that seem to have quick results, not the female role models
identified with plans such as Weight Watchers, the L.A. Weight Loss Diet
and Jenny Craig, programs that require dieters to weigh food, count
calories or tally points (a scoring system for foods) and to accept
continuous, moderate changes in weight loss as a good thing. More than
half the testimonials on the Atkins Web site come from men, too, she
notes.

Bentley's article in the August issue of Gastronomica: The Journal of
Food and Culture, however, isn't based on long- or even short-term
studies. And the research she reports in her essay isn't footnoted. So,
academic arguments aside, do men and women actually approach dieting
differently?

Yes, they do, says John La Puma, a Santa Barbara-based internist and
professionally trained chef with a national practice that focuses on
medical nutrition and healthy weight.

"In my practice, men respond well when you tell them what to do and when
to do it, what to eat and what not to eat, when to eat and when not to,"
says LaPuma, whose patients are about evenly divided between the sexes.
"Both men and women need specific goals for achievement. But goals are
larger, more like visions or missions. Men often need objectives -- little
guideposts or milestones along the way. And we need strategies and tactics
to get there. It's the language of business school."

Initially LaPuma, who is also the co-author of "The RealAge Diet: Make
Yourself Younger With What You Eat" (HarperCollins, 2002) and "Cooking the
RealAge Way: Turn Back Your Biological Clock With More Than 80 Delicious
and Easy Recipes" (HarperCollins, 2003) took a more traditional approach.
"When I was investigating weight-loss programs 10 years ago, I found that
98 out of 100 were targeted for women," he says. "They were often
process-oriented -- that is, they tried to make sense of the problem and
reason through it the way women often do with relationships, to turn the
problems over to fully understand them, and then to come out with a
solution better than what they went in with. It's a thoughtful examination
of the reasons for eating other than hunger, with small changes making a
big difference. I started that way. . . . Three years ago, it became clear
to me that it worked for some people but not for others, and the people it
worked for tended to be women."

What he observed about the men he treated was that generally they were
goal-oriented, numbers-oriented and specific about wanting to be told
exactly what to do. In general, he found that approach works for his male
patients and some women -- with a caution. "The flip side is that it can
seem parental," he says. "But it's not. It's more like a business partner
with experience in a specific area. . . . I give them specific goals --
weight, blood pressure, cholesterol -- and I give them a specific time
period to do it. . . . It's prescriptive, clear, based in science, and it
gives us something to shoot for."

La Puma isn't the only one to see a difference in the way men and women
diet. At Weight Watchers (where the amount and kinds of food allowed have
been based on a point system that is reliant on calories as well as grams
of dietary fiber and fat), low-carb diets are seen as serious competition,
especially for male clients. Men have never been a large part of the
Weight Watchers constituency. Trying to make sense of that, the company
did extensive research about "extreme dieting" -- that is low-carb and
no-carb dieting -- in the United States. "We wanted to understand men, and
their needs, preferences and weight issues," says Karen Miller-Kovach, the
company's chief scientific officer.

Previously, their studies had found that men weren't even comfortable
talking about dieting. Then about a year and a half ago, they began to see
a difference in their focus groups. "I was consistently hearing men
admitting to dieting and weight loss," says Miller-Kovach. "You generally
didn't see that. With the no- and low-carb diets, suddenly it was okay for
a man to be on a diet and to credit a weight-loss method as the way the
weight was lost. Now for the first time it was a macho thing to do."

Not only were men talking about weight loss; women were often making
dieting decisions based on the recommendations of men -- their husbands, a
co-worker at the office. And the recommendations were for low-carb
dieting.

At times, the research showed, a woman's decision to go on a low-carb
diet was motivated by a desire to get support from, or give support to,
her husband. "We heard from women that 'this low-carb approach is not my
preferred way of dieting, but my husband wanted to do it this way. I'm not
keen on doing it that way. But if I can get him to do it with me, I'll do
it.' "

At other times, women reported they had tried the low-carb approach
because they had seen men succeed. A typical female reaction, says
Miller-Kovach, was to say, "I know about weight loss and if this guy can
lose weight, and he doesn't know about this stuff, I can really do it."

Weight Watchers was so impressed by the change in men's (and some
women's) attitudes, that the discovery played a major role in the
company's decision to introduce an alternative program to its popular Flex
Plan in which foods are assigned a point value, and dieters are given a
point goal for each day and week. The recently launched program, the Core
Plan, doesn't rely on the traditional Weight Watchers point system.
Instead, it offers dieters a list of "allowed" foods (designed to provide
both good nutrition and satisfaction) that they can eat and still lose
weight.

In other words, eat only these foods and you'll be fine. It's an approach
that's a mainstay of low-carb diets -- and an approach the company feels
will be attractive to many men.

At Atkins Nutritionals, the company founded by Robert Atkins, which is
now an international enterprise that sells food products and provides
information about the diet, there is resistance to seeing Atkins dieters
through a gender prism.

"The appeal of Atkins is not just limited to men," says Stuart Trager, an
orthopedist and the medical director of Atkins Nutritionals as well as the
chairman of the Atkins Physical Council. "Obesity and overeating cross
gender lines. . . . We're seeing a move in general toward results-oriented
programs that appeal to the new health-conscious and weight-conscious
[group of dieters]. That includes perhaps more men than it has in the
past."

That said, at one of the Atkins-inspired Web sites (which are not
sponsored by the company but have sprung up as forums where dieters can
discuss their experiences and concerns), there's a special chat room for
men where participants discuss their experiences on the diet -- from
sexual implications and how it affects weight training to recipes.

Take, for example, Web site chatter from Oregon last month: "I was really
self-conscious about [dieting]. I told people at work I was on it (if it
came up) but I always added 'Even if I don't lose any weight . . . I feel
great.' Then when the pounds started falling off it was the guys who were
the most supportive telling me how great I looked and how Atkins was
really working."

And another from Denver earlier this summer: "I generally don't like
talking about dieting at all. I remember being right out of high school
and working at a bank . . . sitting in the lunch room listening to the
women talking about all the different diets. . . . They had the various
menus memorized. . . . I'm at a point now where I do occasionally brag
about it. When I go out to lunch with a customer and they see how I'm
ordering and immediately pick it up as Atkins (everyone knows Atkins) I
always end up talking about it. [i] make it a point to tell them I'm
already 60 lbs down, because NO ONE can argue about success."

Just how long the low-carb landslide will last is anybody's guess. And
there aren't any long-term studies to show how successful its dieters are
in keeping the weight off. For that matter, we don't know for sure that
men as a group are dieting more than they used to, although it certainly
looks that way.

If men are dieting in increasing numbers, what is the reason? Have baby
boomers reached an age where unless they stay fit, high cholesterol,
diabetes and coronary heart disease are just around the corner? Is the
relentless tide of information about obesity in America hitting close to
home? Has popular culture, with its trendy metrosexuals and women who
openly discuss men's bodies on TV shows like "Friends" and "Sex and the
City," made men more aware of their sexual attractiveness?

It's probably a little of all of the above.

At Weight Watchers, for example, research has indicated that men go on
diets primarily for the same reasons that women do: to feel and look
better, as opposed to a concern about their health.

In contrast, LaPuma finds that his patients (who tend to be CEOs, very
successful people, yet they haven't been able to solve their weight
problems) care mightily about potential health hazards of being
overweight. "They don't want the fact they're obese or hypertense or have
high cholesterol to steal from them what they've earned in life," he says.

Whatever the reason for dieting, the weight problem isn't going to go
away -- for women or for men. "There's too much food out there, too many
choices. It's too tempting," says NYU's Bentley. "We're in desperate
times."

Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
|| I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.

There's a strong ring of truth in parts of that article...though it is too
simplistic for me now....it may apply to a lot of men just starting out.

For example, I find eating a plate of veggies to be manly.....because
getting them down (initially, anyway) took a lot of willpower. Another
example, fasting for 24 to 36 hours -- that's a manly thing to do, imo!

I still don't like how the article paints LCers are eating mostly meat,
eggs, bacon, and cheese, though. I think not eating just that stuff can be
more manly that just eating that stuff.

I have to admit I never enjoyed talking about dieting, until I came to the
newsgroup and actually started seriously trying to lose weight.

Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
|| I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.

There's a strong ring of truth in parts of that article...though it is too
simplistic for me now....it may apply to a lot of men just starting out.

For example, I find eating a plate of veggies to be manly.....because
getting them down (initially, anyway) took a lot of willpower. Another
example, fasting for 24 to 36 hours -- that's a manly thing to do, imo!

I still don't like how the article paints LCers are eating mostly meat,
eggs, bacon, and cheese, though. I think not eating just that stuff can be
more manly that just eating that stuff.

I have to admit I never enjoyed talking about dieting, until I came to the
newsgroup and actually started seriously trying to lose weight.

"Roger Zoul"

writes:

Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
|| I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.

There's a strong ring of truth in parts of that article...though it is too
simplistic for me now....it may apply to a lot of men just starting out.

My SO was in 3 workplace-based Weight Watchers groups while he was losing. The
first was 29 women and him, the next was 31 women and three other guys and him,
and the last was 32 women and him. The funny thing was, after he lost the
weight, some of the other guys in his department began slimming down. And
they'd come into his office and shut the door and confess -- a word used
deliberately -- that they, too, were doing WW, they were inspired by him, and
they knew they needed to lose weight. BUT they weren't about to go to meetings
at the workplace, they were going to meetings where fewer people knew them.
And yet I've never known a low-carbing guy to be all secretive about it like
that. (I don't get it, and I don't have a theory, I'm just reporting what
happened.)

I still don't like how the article paints LCers are eating mostly meat,
eggs, bacon, and cheese, though. I think not eating just that stuff can be
more manly that just eating that stuff.

If you ever hear of me falling over from a heart attack on a Wednesday, you may
then suspect that the Post food section has someone talking about low-carb who
actually knows something about it. I don't think they've ever had anyone
knowledgeable make a single comment on it. Talk about people who need to read
the damned book!

I have to admit I never enjoyed talking about dieting, until I came to the
newsgroup and actually started seriously trying to lose weight.

Here's a question: do the men here ever feel peer or media pressure to lose
weight? Because women get a lot of peer and media pressure, not that it's kept
the nation's obesity rates low.

Daria
166/under 145/under 145
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

DG511 wrote:
||| "Roger Zoul"
||
|| writes:
||
||| Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
||||| I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.
|||
||| There's a strong ring of truth in parts of that article...though it
||| is too simplistic for me now....it may apply to a lot of men just
||| starting out.
||
|| My SO was in 3 workplace-based Weight Watchers groups while he was
|| losing. The first was 29 women and him, the next was 31 women and
|| three other guys and him, and the last was 32 women and him. The
|| funny thing was, after he lost the weight, some of the other guys in
|| his department began slimming down. And they'd come into his office
|| and shut the door and confess -- a word used deliberately -- that
|| they, too, were doing WW, they were inspired by him, and they knew
|| they needed to lose weight. BUT they weren't about to go to
|| meetings at the workplace, they were going to meetings where fewer
|| people knew them. And yet I've never known a low-carbing guy to be
|| all secretive about it like that. (I don't get it, and I don't have
|| a theory, I'm just reporting what happened.)
||
||| I still don't like how the article paints LCers are eating mostly
||| meat,
||| eggs, bacon, and cheese, though. I think not eating just that
||| stuff can be more manly that just eating that stuff.
||
|| If you ever hear of me falling over from a heart attack on a
|| Wednesday, you may then suspect that the Post food section has
|| someone talking about low-carb who actually knows something about
|| it. I don't think they've ever had anyone knowledgeable make a
|| single comment on it. Talk about people who need to read the damned
|| book!
||
||| I have to admit I never enjoyed talking about dieting, until I came
||| to the newsgroup and actually started seriously trying to lose
||| weight.
||
|| Here's a question: do the men here ever feel peer or media pressure
|| to lose weight? Because women get a lot of peer and media pressure,
|| not that it's kept the nation's obesity rates low.

Heck yes. When you weigh 367 lbs and get on an airplane, you tend to spill
over. Also, on the dating scene, at least for me, being that fat puts you
at a disadvantage. Also, the general, usually unspoken, opinion of really
overweight guys is that they are less viral and thus less effective overall.
Obviously, there are degrees of this phenom and it depends on what crowds
you hang out with, too.

The amazing thing to me is how people manage to deal with peer pressure.
You get thick skin (if you are like most guys or of the right mindset as a
woman). And it's hard not to since you have to deal with being you
everyday.