Ketosis Question

I am struggling with this concept. If Ketones are a product of fat
burning, how do you know whether it is stored fat that is being burnt or
dietary fat. regarding the latter, Atkins speaks about kick-starting
fat burning using the "fat fast" for insulin resistant individuals, and
to monitor urinary ketones with ketostix. He reports, and I have found,
that the ketostix turn strongly purple.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the utility of testing for ketones. If it
is more about checking that the body has moved from burning glucose to
fat, what value are ketostix beyond the time it takes for this to occur
(in my case 3 days)?

Peter wrote:
I am struggling with this concept. If Ketones are a product of fat
burning, how do you know whether it is stored fat that is being burnt or
dietary fat.

You probably don't know that. Theoretically fat is continually going in
and out of storage and sometimes for burning or energy purposes. You may
be burning freshly stored fat at 6:00 PM before dinner or it may be
"old fat".

regarding the latter, Atkins speaks about kick-starting
fat burning using the "fat fast" for insulin resistant individuals, and
to monitor urinary ketones with ketostix. He reports, and I have found,
that the ketostix turn strongly purple.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the utility of testing for ketones. If it
is more about checking that the body has moved from burning glucose to
fat, what value are ketostix beyond the time it takes for this to occur
(in my case 3 days)?

You will get considerable debate on the issue ranging from A)Just being
in ketosis is enough for all practical purposes to B) you can use the
ketosis indication in specific ways .......


A number of people never bother with the ketosis strip thing, they just
keep using the weight loss as an indication of the process working.

Others swear that the use of these strips is absolutely essential and
one should be diligent in the use of them.

Personally, I enjoyed peeing on the strips, at first, but then nothing
much else was happening and they never turned more than a slight shade.
But I never did the "fat fast." And I quit use of the sticks well before
they were all used up.

Be prepared for all kinds of answers.

Good Luck.

Peter wrote:
I am struggling with this concept. If Ketones are a product of fat
burning, how do you know whether it is stored fat that is being burnt or
dietary fat.

It can be either.

Additionally and to over-simply:

- FFA doesn't need to be converted to ketones to be used as
a fuel,

- understand that fat/FFA can be directly used as a fuel by
many cells but not all,

- ketone production occurs to produce fuel for the brain.

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Peter wrote:

I am struggling with this concept.

It's easy to find confusig. The obvious behavior would be every gram
of dietary fat will displace a gram of withdrawn stored fat and so the
sticks indicate a mixture of dietary and stored fat that can be
predicted based on those numbers. The thing is obvious does not
equal true and this obvious idea is completely and utterly false. It
just plain doesn't even slightly work the obvious way.

If Ketones are a product of fat
burning, how do you know whether it is stored fat that is being burnt or
dietary fat.

The way it actually works in the non-obvious very strange real
chemistry of the situation is the more the ketones, the more that
came out of storage and even more anti-obviously more dietary
fat causes more stored fat to be withdrawn. So no matter the
level, the answer is both. Higher levels mean more of both, lower
levels mean less of both (with the high levels in the first two weeks
being almost independent of dietary fat intake a temporary
anomaly).

Of course it isn't magical working that way forever. Overeat enough
and the ketosis starts to turn itself down and the more fat is better
thing stops working. It's more fat traded for less protein that
works,
not just overeating more and more. Fat grams within the same
total caloric intake is what matters not just fat grams period.

regarding the latter, Atkins speaks about kick-starting
fat burning using the "fat fast" for insulin resistant individuals,

False. He only recommends the fat fast for individuals who fail to
get into ketosis at Induction levels. Induction is named Induction
because *IT* is the kickstart program designed to *induce*
ketosis.

But the fat fast is an execellent example of the anti-obvious
principle of how ketosis works its chemistry -

1) It has a 9-to-1 ratio of fat calores to protein calories and it
triggers very high levels of ketosis.

2) If is at 1000 calories per day so it is far away from the
overeating
range.

and to monitor urinary ketones with ketostix.

If you can find a better way to confirm that you are in ketonuria, go
for it. Consider that the chemical framework of the Atkins process
uses ketonuria as its keystone - In ketonuria and losing, phases 1
and 2. Out of ketonuria while drifting towards ideal weight, phrase
3. Out of ketonuria but still low enough to prevent carb cravings to
maintain without hunger, phase 4.

He reports, and I have found,
that the ketostix turn strongly purple.

Not to worry - In 2 weeks the body adjusts to the new fuel and it
adjusts so they are just barely pink aka positive. You're aware
that the sticks are designed to warn diabetics that they are dying
from ketoacidosis by turning dark black, right? And therefore
darker is not better on the sticks. Darker on the sticks is utterly
irrelevant until you get to the life threatening dark black region
that doesn't happen with non-diabetic low carbing.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the utility of testing for ketones.

If you are trying to read anything at all into the darkness of them,
you are definitely misunderstanding their utility. Darker is not
better.
any positive change away from biege is positive and there's no more
meaning to darker after that than a pregnancy test kit can tell you
you're having triplets because it gave a darker plus sign.

If it
is more about checking that the body has moved from burning glucose to
fat, what value are ketostix beyond the time it takes for this to occur
(in my case 3 days)?

If getting into ketonuria once and then never again in your life
needing
to know if you're still in ketonuria was all that mattered (a point
that is
true enough in the 14 days of phase 1), then one positive would be all
you ever needed.

But that completely misses the conceptual framework of the Atkins
process. Phase 2 starts by increasing your carb quota weekly until
you
spend that week out of ketonuria to find your CCLL. And then you
cruise 5-10 under that level back in ketosis losing without hunger.
This
process that customizes your carb quota to the level determined by
your own body's reactions is why Atkins works so well for so many
people.

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I am struggling with this concept. If Ketones are a product of fat burning,
how do you know whether it is stored fat that is being burnt or dietary
fat. regarding the latter, Atkins speaks about kick-starting fat burning
using the "fat fast" for insulin resistant individuals, and to monitor
urinary ketones with ketostix. He reports, and I have found, that the
ketostix turn strongly purple.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the utility of testing for ketones. If it is
more about checking that the body has moved from burning glucose to fat,
what value are ketostix beyond the time it takes for this to occur (in my
case 3 days)?

Self testing for ketones with sticks is a fun way to see if you are in the
ballpark of low carbing right. They are not exact, and can be influenced by
things like how much water you drink. However, a newbie at low carb needs
all the emotional support they can get. Seeing a purple ketostick can be a
big boost.

3 days was faster than it took me. I think I needed weeks.

I have had ketones be flagged by the computer on a urinalysis. It concerns
the doctors until you tell them about low carbing.

"Peter" wrote in message
...
I am struggling with this concept. If Ketones are a product of fat burning,
how do you know whether it is stored fat that is being burnt or dietary
fat.

You won't know until you start dropping significant weight/inches after the
first few weeks when the water-weight loss is occuring.

regarding the latter, Atkins speaks about kick-starting
fat burning using the "fat fast" for insulin resistant individuals, and to
monitor urinary ketones with ketostix. He reports, and I have found, that
the ketostix turn strongly purple.

Most people dont' need to do a fat fast...and most over-weight people are
insulin resistant to some degree.


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the utility of testing for ketones. If it is
more about checking that the body has moved from burning glucose to fat,
what value are ketostix beyond the time it takes for this to occur (in my
case 3 days)?

IFAIC, none. I did away with strips very quickly after i started in 2003.

Good for you that you're in ketosis or whatever, that shows you're headed in
the right direction. You can cut those sticks in half lengthwise if you want
and save some $. You can also tell whether or not you are in ketosis by the
smell of your urine and breath (unfortunately). I guess the bottom line is
whether you are able to stick with Atkins (or low-carb in general) as a way
of eating, and whether it works for you in terms of losing weight. It's
going really well for me & I hope it works for you to.

"em" wrote:

You can cut those sticks in half lengthwise if you want
and save some $.

If you do this be paranoid about keeping the sticks dry. Close
the cover and keep a silica gel in it to draw out any humidity
that gets in while the cover is open. Humidity ages the sticks
and that's part of why they are sold in cans' of 30 or 50. To
make them last longer tasks fastidious avoidance of humidity.

You can also tell whether or not you are in ketosis by the
smell of your urine and breath (unfortunately).

The smell is strong early on but it fades in about two weeks.
After that some can and some can't detect the faded smell.
I suggest folks focus on the smell early on to learn it in the
hopes that increases the chance of being able to tell it once it
fades. If you can still smell it once it fades, that's more
accurate than the sticks so no need for the sticks. But not
everyone can still smell it once it fades.

"em" wrote in message ...
Good for you that you're in ketosis or whatever, that shows you're headed
in the right direction.

Do those carb blockers help to keep the carb count down?

No, they are a scam.

DB wrote:
| "em" wrote in message
| ...
|| Good for you that you're in ketosis or whatever, that shows you're
|| headed in the right direction.
|
| Do those carb blockers help to keep the carb count down?