Starvation mode - advice

Now, I wonder if any of you have any experience about getting the body
off starvation mode. Other than the "refeeding" theory.
I dare not try again the "refeeding" theory, that one should "eat up" a
little to get the fat burning going again when when on a plateau for a
longer time. It backfired on me and I finished eating also all the
forbidden things, gaining 10 kg, until I started counting calories, and
cutting my carbs to induction level.

I have googled but became none the wiser and ask the group of your
experience.

As it is now, it seems that I need to eat a little less for every day
that comes to keep losing, the body seems to fight back about every
microgram. I pretend not to worry of daily fluctuations, though , but I
cannot help weighing myself also in the middle of the week , even though
I have decided that Sunday is Weighing Day.

I wonder if I shall have to keep nibbling till I get to goal weight,
which is a long way away (94 kg - 72 kg), or could I expect say a
WHOOSH sometimes or that the body actually will start wanting more than
under 1000 calories a day. (I am down at about 800 -900 kcal/day now ,
carbs under 20 g, anything more, and I stall or gain.)

In case anybody wonders, I don't feel so ravenous, though, hardly
hungry at all, but that is perhaps because I fill my stomach with water
if it feels empty. And 2 mugs of coffee (definitively not decaf) in the
morning, which I refuse to give up. My family think that I will end up
anorectic. Do middle-aged men risk becoming anorectic?

May the force be with you

Arto F.

IMHO "Starvation Mode" is a myth. There is a small increase in metabolic
efficiency, if you eat 600 calories per day. This gets exaggerated by
wishful thinking of those who hate to count calories.

http://www.FitDay.com is a great way to find out how many calories you
average. Find your BMR on the internet and the math should be obvious.
Note: Fitday over-estimates caloric burn rate.

"Arto Frobeus" wrote in message
...
Now, I wonder if any of you have any experience about getting the body
off starvation mode. Other than the "refeeding" theory.
I dare not try again the "refeeding" theory, that one should "eat up" a
little to get the fat burning going again when when on a plateau for a
longer time. It backfired on me and I finished eating also all the
forbidden things, gaining 10 kg, until I started counting calories, and
cutting my carbs to induction level.

I have googled but became none the wiser and ask the group of your
experience.

As it is now, it seems that I need to eat a little less for every day
that comes to keep losing, the body seems to fight back about every
microgram. I pretend not to worry of daily fluctuations, though , but I
cannot help weighing myself also in the middle of the week , even though
I have decided that Sunday is Weighing Day.

I wonder if I shall have to keep nibbling till I get to goal weight,
which is a long way away (94 kg - 72 kg), or could I expect say a
WHOOSH sometimes or that the body actually will start wanting more than
under 1000 calories a day. (I am down at about 800 -900 kcal/day now ,
carbs under 20 g, anything more, and I stall or gain.)

In case anybody wonders, I don't feel so ravenous, though, hardly
hungry at all, but that is perhaps because I fill my stomach with water
if it feels empty. And 2 mugs of coffee (definitively not decaf) in the
morning, which I refuse to give up. My family think that I will end up
anorectic. Do middle-aged men risk becoming anorectic?

May the force be with you

Arto F.

IMHO "Starvation Mode" is a myth. There is a small increase in metabolic
efficiency, if you eat 600 calories per day. This gets exaggerated by
wishful thinking of those who hate to count calories.

http://www.FitDay.com is a great way to find out how many calories you
average. Find your BMR on the internet and the math should be obvious.
Note: Fitday over-estimates caloric burn rate.

"Arto Frobeus" wrote in message
...
Now, I wonder if any of you have any experience about getting the body
off starvation mode. Other than the "refeeding" theory.
I dare not try again the "refeeding" theory, that one should "eat up" a
little to get the fat burning going again when when on a plateau for a
longer time. It backfired on me and I finished eating also all the
forbidden things, gaining 10 kg, until I started counting calories, and
cutting my carbs to induction level.

I have googled but became none the wiser and ask the group of your
experience.

As it is now, it seems that I need to eat a little less for every day
that comes to keep losing, the body seems to fight back about every
microgram. I pretend not to worry of daily fluctuations, though , but I
cannot help weighing myself also in the middle of the week , even though
I have decided that Sunday is Weighing Day.

I wonder if I shall have to keep nibbling till I get to goal weight,
which is a long way away (94 kg - 72 kg), or could I expect say a
WHOOSH sometimes or that the body actually will start wanting more than
under 1000 calories a day. (I am down at about 800 -900 kcal/day now ,
carbs under 20 g, anything more, and I stall or gain.)

In case anybody wonders, I don't feel so ravenous, though, hardly
hungry at all, but that is perhaps because I fill my stomach with water
if it feels empty. And 2 mugs of coffee (definitively not decaf) in the
morning, which I refuse to give up. My family think that I will end up
anorectic. Do middle-aged men risk becoming anorectic?

May the force be with you

Arto F.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:06:19 +0200, "Arto Frobeus"
wrote:

Now, I wonder if any of you have any experience about getting the body
off starvation mode. Other than the "refeeding" theory.

I dare not try again the "refeeding" theory, that one should "eat up" a
little to get the fat burning going again when when on a plateau for a
longer time.

First, some clarification: Cyclical ketogenic (which is what it
sounds like you're attempting to do) is a bit different from just
doing the occasional refeed.

However, I'm not sure I understand why you would be attempting
cyclical ketogenic when you're almost 50 lbs from goal. Are you doing
this in conjunction with a weight training program, perhaps?

Suggestions:
(1) Stay in ketosis to control your appetite. Forget about refeeds.
(2) Make sure you're getting enough protein.
(3) Increase exercise.
(4) Calories matter. Bodyweight (in pounds) x 10 would be a good
starting point to estimate daily caloric intake. Start there and take
it down a bit if necessary.

It backfired on me and I finished eating also all the forbidden things,
gaining 10 kg, until I started counting calories, and
cutting my carbs to induction level.

Again, cyclical keto isn't what you want to be doing at this point.

I have googled but became none the wiser and ask the group of your
experience.

If you still care to read up on the subject, do an advanced google
*groups* search on misc.fitness weights for the terms "refeed", and
also "ketogenic". Putting "lyle" in as author will narrow the
searches further.

http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:06:19 +0200, "Arto Frobeus"
wrote:

Now, I wonder if any of you have any experience about getting the body
off starvation mode. Other than the "refeeding" theory.

I dare not try again the "refeeding" theory, that one should "eat up" a
little to get the fat burning going again when when on a plateau for a
longer time.

First, some clarification: Cyclical ketogenic (which is what it
sounds like you're attempting to do) is a bit different from just
doing the occasional refeed.

However, I'm not sure I understand why you would be attempting
cyclical ketogenic when you're almost 50 lbs from goal. Are you doing
this in conjunction with a weight training program, perhaps?

Suggestions:
(1) Stay in ketosis to control your appetite. Forget about refeeds.
(2) Make sure you're getting enough protein.
(3) Increase exercise.
(4) Calories matter. Bodyweight (in pounds) x 10 would be a good
starting point to estimate daily caloric intake. Start there and take
it down a bit if necessary.

It backfired on me and I finished eating also all the forbidden things,
gaining 10 kg, until I started counting calories, and
cutting my carbs to induction level.

Again, cyclical keto isn't what you want to be doing at this point.

I have googled but became none the wiser and ask the group of your
experience.

If you still care to read up on the subject, do an advanced google
*groups* search on misc.fitness weights for the terms "refeed", and
also "ketogenic". Putting "lyle" in as author will narrow the
searches further.

http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en

"Arto Frobeus" wrote in message
...
Now, I wonder if any of you have any experience about getting the body
off starvation mode. Other than the "refeeding" theory.
I dare not try again the "refeeding" theory, that one should "eat up" a
little to get the fat burning going again when when on a plateau for a
longer time. It backfired on me and I finished eating also all the
forbidden things, gaining 10 kg, until I started counting calories, and
cutting my carbs to induction level.

I have googled but became none the wiser and ask the group of your
experience.

As it is now, it seems that I need to eat a little less for every day
that comes to keep losing, the body seems to fight back about every
microgram. I pretend not to worry of daily fluctuations, though , but I
cannot help weighing myself also in the middle of the week , even though
I have decided that Sunday is Weighing Day.

I wonder if I shall have to keep nibbling till I get to goal weight,
which is a long way away (94 kg - 72 kg), or could I expect say a
WHOOSH sometimes or that the body actually will start wanting more than
under 1000 calories a day. (I am down at about 800 -900 kcal/day now ,
carbs under 20 g, anything more, and I stall or gain.)

In case anybody wonders, I don't feel so ravenous, though, hardly
hungry at all, but that is perhaps because I fill my stomach with water
if it feels empty. And 2 mugs of coffee (definitively not decaf) in the
morning, which I refuse to give up. My family think that I will end up
anorectic. Do middle-aged men risk becoming anorectic?

May the force be with you

Arto F.


Everyone has opinions, and I agree with the previous posters. They are
knowledgeable.

I would like to add that you should not let a stall discourage you. It's
almost certainly going to happen. I know it sucks when things were working
so well for you, and then suddenly nothing changes, but stick to the plan.
Things will happen again, it just might take a week or a month, no way to
predict.

In aviation, there is a thing called "ground effect." It happens when you
are taking off, and again when you are landing. A small plane, in that
phase, kind of 'floats' along. When landing, you wait for the plane to
start sinking towards the ground again, and then flare.

There is no constant. Relax and enjoy the diet regimen you are on. Please
don't think you have to change anything because you're not seeing results
right now. Eventually, they will happen.

"Arto Frobeus" wrote in message
...
Now, I wonder if any of you have any experience about getting the body
off starvation mode. Other than the "refeeding" theory.
I dare not try again the "refeeding" theory, that one should "eat up" a
little to get the fat burning going again when when on a plateau for a
longer time. It backfired on me and I finished eating also all the
forbidden things, gaining 10 kg, until I started counting calories, and
cutting my carbs to induction level.

I have googled but became none the wiser and ask the group of your
experience.

As it is now, it seems that I need to eat a little less for every day
that comes to keep losing, the body seems to fight back about every
microgram. I pretend not to worry of daily fluctuations, though , but I
cannot help weighing myself also in the middle of the week , even though
I have decided that Sunday is Weighing Day.

I wonder if I shall have to keep nibbling till I get to goal weight,
which is a long way away (94 kg - 72 kg), or could I expect say a
WHOOSH sometimes or that the body actually will start wanting more than
under 1000 calories a day. (I am down at about 800 -900 kcal/day now ,
carbs under 20 g, anything more, and I stall or gain.)

In case anybody wonders, I don't feel so ravenous, though, hardly
hungry at all, but that is perhaps because I fill my stomach with water
if it feels empty. And 2 mugs of coffee (definitively not decaf) in the
morning, which I refuse to give up. My family think that I will end up
anorectic. Do middle-aged men risk becoming anorectic?

May the force be with you

Arto F.


Everyone has opinions, and I agree with the previous posters. They are
knowledgeable.

I would like to add that you should not let a stall discourage you. It's
almost certainly going to happen. I know it sucks when things were working
so well for you, and then suddenly nothing changes, but stick to the plan.
Things will happen again, it just might take a week or a month, no way to
predict.

In aviation, there is a thing called "ground effect." It happens when you
are taking off, and again when you are landing. A small plane, in that
phase, kind of 'floats' along. When landing, you wait for the plane to
start sinking towards the ground again, and then flare.

There is no constant. Relax and enjoy the diet regimen you are on. Please
don't think you have to change anything because you're not seeing results
right now. Eventually, they will happen.

I've never heard of a middle aged man being anorexic.

Becky P.

I've never heard of a middle aged man being anorexic.

Becky P.

Concordia wrote:

First, some clarification: Cyclical ketogenic (which is what it
sounds like you're attempting to do) is a bit different from just
doing the occasional refeed.

However, I'm not sure I understand why you would be attempting
cyclical ketogenic when you're almost 50 lbs from goal. Are you doing
this in conjunction with a weight training program, perhaps?

Suggestions:
(1) Stay in ketosis to control your appetite. Forget about refeeds.
(2) Make sure you're getting enough protein.
(3) Increase exercise.
(4) Calories matter. Bodyweight (in pounds) x 10 would be a good
starting point to estimate daily caloric intake. Start there and take
it down a bit if necessary.


Again, cyclical keto isn't what you want to be doing at this point.

If you still care to read up on the subject, do an advanced google
*groups* search on misc.fitness weights for the terms "refeed", and
also "ketogenic". Putting "lyle" in as author will narrow the
searches further.


I do not understand one word. What qualified gibberish is that? What
ever in the world is cyclical ketogenic? (You do not actually need to
answer and explain).

What I am doing is trying to lose weight.
This thing about refeed is something I read about nearly a year ago, and
I understood it so that it might help me out of plateau if I overeat a
couple of times to get the system going again. I did that and could not
stop overeating for six months (that means a lot of lovely carbs in the
food), something like what happens to alcoholics when they fall for
temptation after a dry period. So much for refeed. Gained back half of
what I had lost but my metabolism obviously had decided to keep the new
heavier weight, because I could get weight loss going againonly by
cutting portions drastically.

I am not doing Atkins with any interest in serious scientific detail. I
can count my carbs and calories, I can read the scales and I know when I
grow too big for my clothes, or when I can go try one size smaller to
put on. And I know when I see a waistline appear in the mirror (some
day, I hope).

If I eat as much calories at present as the suggested formula above I
gain weight. I dislike doing mathematics. I weigh my food, look up the
calories and carbs from list the I have set up on the fridge door and
have thus come to the conclusion that maximum about 800-900 calories
keeps me losing. We'll see how it is next Sunday, today I had gone down
800g from last Sunday. (but now, in the evening I am actually one kilo
heavier.)

Why I wrote my piece in the first place is that my body obviously is
fighting against the weight loss very strongly and I am seriously
concerned if eating very little calories of which a greater part are
protein (chicken, pork, fish, only a little lettuce, cucumber or
broccoli to give it some colour) is harmful in some way inthe long run
or if my body will return to burning calories at more normal rate.

The question actually is, is there a way to get out of this starvation
mode, as I have seen it called so often, or shall I just go on and see
what happens and hope for continued weight loss.

I am not really interested in any conversation or hairsplitting theories
about what starvation mode is actually called, or is there anything
like starvation mode at all or whatever. I use that term out of
convenience, in lack of anything better.

As far as I know I am not in ketosis, at least I have not got the
"dragon breath" yet I developed earlier. Ketostix are not available in
Sweden. Would something they call lacmus (litmos) paper do?

The official Swedish medical opinion is that Atkins diet is dangerous
for your health and leads to all kinds of unexpected unpleasant
illnesses and death.
Nevertheless, light in darkness has been found. Some Atkins Nutritonal
low carb products have found their way to shops that mainly sell
alternative herbal medicine and such. Not to food markets, probably as
they are in some way a suspicious product conncted to a fatal diet :-)

Arto F.