An interesting observation.

"Kate Dicey" wrote:

The way I see it, all those cakes and and cookies and high
fat chips and salted nuts were the things that triggered my over eating,
and to break the cycle I needed to get away from them, not find low
fat/calorie versions of the danger foods. I needed to form new habits
and break old ones rather than needing radical re-education.

Well see for me if I had to completely get rid of ALL of those things (which
I don't eat much of to begin with) then I would not be able to succeed with
the program. I can't do Atkins. I can NOT cut out an entire food group for
the sake of losing weight. I don't believe in it and I'm not good at going
cold turkey like that. For me, it is MORE productive to eat nearly the same
things (but better choices and in smaller amounts) than trying to cut them
out all together. What happens is that I do that and then when I come across
them again I lose control and eat WAY too much of it!! Again, everyone is
different. I can NOT just toss the towel in the air and walk away from all
of my old habits. Some people can.

I'm lucky because I really *prefer* fruit and vegetables to crisps/chips
and their ilk, and always did. Heading for the cupboard and the cookie
barrel was habit rather than preference. Now I head for the fridge and
hunt in the vegetable drawer... Beware, you raw cauliflower that was
supposed to be for Sunday Dinner! Kate's rampaging Saturday night
nibble-fest might get you first!

Lol. You are lucky in that you prefer them. I'm finding that to be a weak
point for me but I eat plenty of fruits with meals.

I suppose the cultural thing is as much a family culture as anything

Yep, could be.

Now I'm heading back in the direction of childhood: 3 decent meals a day
and a few healthy snacks to fill the gaps if needed. I find I nibble if
bored, so I try to keep busy. I don't always succeed: some days I fail
miserably. I'm still learning what my triggers are. TOM triggers carb
cravings, and I head for the bread bin! I can swallow half a loaf at a
sitting! Rice is another thing I can eat until it's almost coming out
my ears! But not potatoes... Funny, that! Depression triggers sugar
and chocolate cravings, and so does pain. When the fibro is bad, I want
to nibble chocolate cookies and cake all day!

That makes sense. I can see the cycle.

-Kara.

Odd you mentioned desert as even in the before times I rarely ordered it due
to the fact that I knew it wouldn't be a treat because my mom would have
cooked it better at some point, Lee who is liking all these observations
Anny Middon wrote in message
om...
"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...

Portion size also puzzles me... Are portions REALLY so large that
taking half home to eat later is expected? Here, portions can be
generous, but are rarely THAT big, and 'doggy-bagging' the remains is
only valid if the dog is there to back your claims! Re-heated
restaurant food is not the most attractive option...


Often, yes, they are that large. Last weekend we went to a new local
restaurant. The burgers were made from 8 ounces of meat each. This is
actually pretty standard around here for dinner burgers at restaurants.
Steaks that weigh in at 10 or more ounces are common (and 22 ounce "hearty
eater" portions are seen in quite a few restaurants).

But a difference between you and me is that I *love* re-heated restaurant
food! There's nothing like peering into the fridge and realizing that
there's still some kung pao shrimp to nuke for lunch.

And the whole "doggy bag" thing does seem to be somewhat cultural. I read
just a few days ago about how uncommon this is in Europe, while here in
the
US if you leave more than a few bites on your plate it's almost guaranteed
that the waitperson will offer to wrap it up for you. And not just at
casual places -- fine restaurants with name chefs pretty much expect
people
to want to take their leftovers with them.

Another cultural difference seems to be the number of courses expected in
a
restaurant dinner. In many restaurants, a salad or soup is included with
your meal and many people have only that for starters. I'd estimate that
at
least 95% of the time I do not order an appetizer at a restaurant, and
that
most of the times when appetizers are ordered, one or two will be ordered
to
be shared by the four or six people at the table. Many Europeans and
Australians seem to expect that any restaurant meal includes a starter
course.

I almost never order dessert in a restaurant, either, and I'd guess this
is
true of many other Americans. In fact I wouldn't be a bit surprised to
find
that more than half of all diners here forego a dessert course in most
restaurants. I expect this is not true in Europe.

Anny

but that French meal sure sounds decadent and wonderful, Lee
Kate Dicey wrote in message
...
Anny Middon wrote:

Often, yes, they are that large. Last weekend we went to a new local
restaurant. The burgers were made from 8 ounces of meat each. This is
actually pretty standard around here for dinner burgers at restaurants.
Steaks that weigh in at 10 or more ounces are common (and 22 ounce
"hearty
eater" portions are seen in quite a few restaurants).

I could (and do!) feed the whole family on that much meat! Ye gods and
little fishes!

But a difference between you and me is that I *love* re-heated
restaurant
food! There's nothing like peering into the fridge and realizing that
there's still some kung pao shrimp to nuke for lunch.

Ugh! Bleah! I'd rather cook fresh noodles and throw in a few veggies!

And the whole "doggy bag" thing does seem to be somewhat cultural. I
read
just a few days ago about how uncommon this is in Europe, while here in
the
US if you leave more than a few bites on your plate it's almost
guaranteed
that the waitperson will offer to wrap it up for you. And not just at
casual places -- fine restaurants with name chefs pretty much expect
people
to want to take their leftovers with them.

Most of the places I go will wrap it for you if you ask, but some will
give you funny looks! Mind you, with much smaller, more sensible sized
portions, much less is left.

Another cultural difference seems to be the number of courses expected
in a
restaurant dinner. In many restaurants, a salad or soup is included
with
your meal and many people have only that for starters. I'd estimate
that at
least 95% of the time I do not order an appetizer at a restaurant, and
that
most of the times when appetizers are ordered, one or two will be
ordered to
be shared by the four or six people at the table. Many Europeans and
Australians seem to expect that any restaurant meal includes a starter
course.

If soup or salad was included as part of the meal, I wouldn't order an
extra starter either. They are usually separate he there are '2
courses for £XX' type deals, and you get to decide if you want starter
or pudding. If you want both, you add the cost of the more expensive
option to the price of the meal.

I almost never order dessert in a restaurant, either, and I'd guess this
is
true of many other Americans. In fact I wouldn't be a bit surprised to
find
that more than half of all diners here forego a dessert course in most
restaurants. I expect this is not true in Europe.

Oh, yes: very common in the UK to go from main course to coffee with no
pudding. Many years ago, my parents would often 'share' a meal: Mum
would have a substantial starter and a pudding, Dad would have only a
main course, and they would both end with coffee. If we are in the
right sort of pub, and DH isn't driving, he'll often forgo pudding for
another pint of really good live beer.

It is a little different in France where the set menu of 3 or 4 courses
is more common. There we've had meals that started with an aperitif
followed by soup, progressed through salad followed by the main meat
course, pudding of some sort, and cheese and crackers to finish, topped
off with coffee and a digestifs like cognac... None of the courses were
huge, but you ended up very well fed! I cannot imagine doing that now -
I'd explode!
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

that does sound very different and quite wonderful, Lee
Kate Dicey wrote in message
...
Miss Violette wrote:

I think at least part of it is cultural and I think another part is
preference, and some is health related, for me beer = severe allergic
reaction, wine= a migraine at least half the time. I am the type of
person
who got fat not by eating too much "junk" like cookies but by eating fat
on
everything and in too big of portions. Our portions in restaurants are
actually huge. I recently got the whole wheat pasta from Olive Garden,
It
was a dollar cheaper to get all you can eat and I was doing core, I had
one
bowl of minestrone soup, 2 pts, then I had a first serving of pasta, it
was
a cup and a half, and DH said it was smaller than the regular one
serving
that he was sure was at least two cups. Now to chain restaurants, Here
in
the U.S. there are less and less "mom and pop" places, I would never go
into
a tavern to eat because most of the food is greasy and suspect at best.
Don't get me wrong, I will eat at a place that is a restaurant that
serves
adult beverages just not an adult beverage place that has food, when
these
are taken out of the mix there are few independents left. now to
snacks. I
am not a sweet eater by nature, I have no difficulty eating 1 Hershey's
kiss, rarely eat salty chip type things. When we make the regular box
cake
most is thrown away because we both forgot we made it and it is hiding
in
the cover. I think this is a very valid topic and bears looking at,
Lee,
who brought home ten ounces of a "small" t-bone the other day
Kate Dicey wrote in message
...

I think our pubs and yours must be very different. There days here in
the UK it's very difficult to make a living out of booze alone, and many
people want to take the whole family for an informal lunch. Proper home
cooked food is normal in a pub, and ranges from fish & chips through
giant Yorkshire puds filled with roast beef and onion gravy to gourmet
French restaurant or Thai or Mexican delicacies. There are 'family
rooms' where you can take the kids, or you find the whole place is open
to kids. Every year a thing called The Good Pub Guide comes out, that
will list places as good for families, good food places, tell you the
opening times and whether or not they are child friendly. It covers the
whole of Britain, and we tend to plan lunch stops on long journeys using
it!

There are a lot of independent ethnic restaurants as well: in almost
every town you will find a decent Italian and Chinese places, and in
bigger places there will be a decent vegetarian place too, as well as
those serving UK and French based menus.


--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Kara H wrote:

"Miss Violette" wrote:


I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the
difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural in
nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and Kate
celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee


I don't think she was judging either. Some of her comments came off a little
'but your way isn't my way' but I know for a fact that those were NOT her
intentions and I probably read into it too much anyway! I'm good at that!

-Kara.


This is my area of curiosity, if you like... Your's is *not* my way,
and this is not to say either one is better than the other: I'm just
wondering why these differences occur, so why some of us find it easier
to switch to the fruit and vegetables we all *know* are better for us
than the sugar and salt laden invented snacks and cakes and cookies,
even the low fat ones. We can know it in our heads as much as we like,
but this doesn't mean we can find it easy to do!

Saying to someone who has a severe aversions to vegetables, 'But you
*KNOW* this is better for you: just eat them - they are delicious!' just
does not work! If we understand better WHY a person is like that, it
gets easier to support their excellent efforts and tailor our advice.
So, is not eating vegetables a cultural thing (some parts of the world
have far fewer vegetables in the diet than others, after all), a family
thing (never had them at home as a kid, so isn't used to vegetables on a
regular basis), a personal thing (choked on a carrot as a child, and
therefore is scared of eating vegetables), or a matter of the way their
taste buds are wired (my younger sister had the same food experiences as
I did at home, but there are very few vegetables she'll eat just as
vegetables! Chuck the same things in a soup or stew, or make coleslaw,
and she's happy!)? When I was a student, I had a friend who hated all
vegetables until I gave him fresh cooked ones: all he'd ever had before
was tinned vegetables! With parents brought up on them during the war
in a city area where fresh vegetables were hard to come by, this was all
he knew until I widened his horizons. So for him it was based on family
culture.

I'm not out to knock anyone's choices, though they may strike me as
unwise. I'm looking for a greater understanding of why we make those
choices, and why it is harder for some to switch to a healthier eating
lifestyle than for others. I'm all for finding healthier versions of
things, but I'm much more likely to buy a WW cookbook than a box of
sticky cakes or a pack of low fat crisp/chips! I'd look at using
chicken mince and low fat cooking methods for making Bolognese sauce
rather than buying a WW salt laden ready meal version. One of the big
differences that make this possible for me is that I work at home and my
time is flexible: I can take an hour or two to make cakes and complex
recipes during the day and shift my sewing time to the evenings when
James is in bed and I get no interruptions from the phone. Folk who are
working outside their homes sometimes need to make different choices
because they do not have my flexibility.

I *am* judgmental: we all are. But I'm looking for an understanding of
why we are the way we are, rather than putting my 'Kate knows best'
jackboots on and stamping all over everyones sensibilities and cultural
differences by telling someone with a fresh veg problem who currently
needs those snacks to help them through the day to stop buying the
crappy things and wasting their cash on them when fresh veg is cheaper,
better for them, and and if they are really hungry in the evening they'd
get better food and money value out of a nice 4 point ham sandwich!

--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Willow wrote:

If what you do works for you.. then good for you.. I'd rather have a little
treat every day than have a big treat every now and then.. it's a matter of
how you want it to work for you..

I do have treats every day - they are just not always food! I don't see
that a treat needs to be food. A treat is something that lifts your
spirits and makes you feel good about the day. For me it could be a
cheese scone with coffee while out, or a new hair decoration, or a fat
quarter if a particularly lovely quilt fabric, or a new book, or a CD...
An excellent treat for me is an uninterrupted hour with some fabric I
already own, a rotary cutter, and the radio tuned to Classic FM.

I lost 70 lbs in 9 months, got my blood pressure, cholesterol, sugar level
in control and got myself in shape.. and still had cheetos (cheese puffs)
every night.. in controlled portions.. it satisfied me, it worked, and it
still does..

Excellent! I wish I could lose that fast, but I am a very slow loser:
it's taken me 8 months to lose 10 pounds... My total is 40 gone, but it
has taken a loooong time! Part of my problem is exercise. I hate most
forms as they are so boring, and I'm restricted in what I'm allowed to
do because of the fibro: swimming and walking are about it! I try to do
my 2 miles 5 days a week, fetching my son home from school, and I try to
swim every week, but work can interfere with the best plans!

There's different ways to live the program for different people..

Absolutely! And it's those differences that I need to understand.

And YES here in the States that portions are big enough for 2 FULL meals..
and no I wouldn't doggie bag certain food.. but other (like chicken breast
or fish that I add to a salad later) make good "left overs" and I don't have
a dog..

I can see that might work...

What works for one person might not at all work for another.. I couldn't eat
only vegetables and lean meat and have no treats.. because there's nothing
wrong with treats anyway.. food is not the enemy..

Part of my low fat/lean meat/lots of veg regime is imposed by the lack
of gall bladder. Even a minor departure can have disastrous and painful
consequences! And food is not my enemy either. Naturally, I'm a
Nigella Lawson sort of a cook, with sympathy for the Two Fat Ladies!
Sometimes it's VERY hard, and sometimes I DO backslide, but not often as
paying for it is painful!



--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

we all sometimes read extras into comments. I am still working on your
vegetable problem, Lee
Kara H wrote in message
...
"Miss Violette" wrote:

I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the
difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural
in
nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and
Kate
celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee

I don't think she was judging either. Some of her comments came off a
little
'but your way isn't my way' but I know for a fact that those were NOT her
intentions and I probably read into it too much anyway! I'm good at
that!

-Kara.

Kara, can you eat popcorn? I was wondering if it counted as a vegetable and
if you could cook it, portion it out and eat it throughout the day. You
need to check the portion to equal a vegetable and the points but this might
help a bit with variety, and I was also thinking about squash and zucchini,
can you or rather have you tried these two raw or just cooked. After
reading Ray's post, I was thinking the texture of a squash and zucchini are
vastly different in these states and you might be able to sneak them into a
salad for a bit of variety, Lee still thinking.
Kara H wrote in message
...
"Kate Dicey" wrote:

The way I see it, all those cakes and and cookies and high
fat chips and salted nuts were the things that triggered my over eating,
and to break the cycle I needed to get away from them, not find low
fat/calorie versions of the danger foods. I needed to form new habits
and break old ones rather than needing radical re-education.

Well see for me if I had to completely get rid of ALL of those things
(which
I don't eat much of to begin with) then I would not be able to succeed
with
the program. I can't do Atkins. I can NOT cut out an entire food group for
the sake of losing weight. I don't believe in it and I'm not good at going
cold turkey like that. For me, it is MORE productive to eat nearly the
same
things (but better choices and in smaller amounts) than trying to cut them
out all together. What happens is that I do that and then when I come
across
them again I lose control and eat WAY too much of it!! Again, everyone is
different. I can NOT just toss the towel in the air and walk away from all
of my old habits. Some people can.

I'm lucky because I really *prefer* fruit and vegetables to crisps/chips
and their ilk, and always did. Heading for the cupboard and the cookie
barrel was habit rather than preference. Now I head for the fridge and
hunt in the vegetable drawer... Beware, you raw cauliflower that was
supposed to be for Sunday Dinner! Kate's rampaging Saturday night
nibble-fest might get you first!

Lol. You are lucky in that you prefer them. I'm finding that to be a weak
point for me but I eat plenty of fruits with meals.

I suppose the cultural thing is as much a family culture as anything

Yep, could be.

Now I'm heading back in the direction of childhood: 3 decent meals a day
and a few healthy snacks to fill the gaps if needed. I find I nibble if
bored, so I try to keep busy. I don't always succeed: some days I fail
miserably. I'm still learning what my triggers are. TOM triggers carb
cravings, and I head for the bread bin! I can swallow half a loaf at a
sitting! Rice is another thing I can eat until it's almost coming out
my ears! But not potatoes... Funny, that! Depression triggers sugar
and chocolate cravings, and so does pain. When the fibro is bad, I want
to nibble chocolate cookies and cake all day!

That makes sense. I can see the cycle.

-Kara.

--
Will~

196.2 / 133.4 / 137 lbs
89 / 60.5 / 62.1 Kg

Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg
"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
Willow wrote:

If what you do works for you.. then good for you.. I'd rather have a
little
treat every day than have a big treat every now and then.. it's a matter
of
how you want it to work for you..

I do have treats every day - they are just not always food! I don't see
that a treat needs to be food. A treat is something that lifts your
spirits and makes you feel good about the day. For me it could be a
cheese scone with coffee while out, or a new hair decoration, or a fat
quarter if a particularly lovely quilt fabric, or a new book, or a CD...
An excellent treat for me is an uninterrupted hour with some fabric I
already own, a rotary cutter, and the radio tuned to Classic FM.

What I treat myself with often these days is a drive around in the
countryside. We just moved north out of San Francisco, Cali.. so it's a
different scene around here ! I love Sonoma County ! another non food treat
used to be to sit down for a cuddle time with my cats.. haven't done all
that much of it Since Belkira's gone.. but still sometimes when River Gaya
isn't in a ****y mood *rolls eyes*


I lost 70 lbs in 9 months, got my blood pressure, cholesterol, sugar
level
in control and got myself in shape.. and still had cheetos (cheese
puffs)
every night.. in controlled portions.. it satisfied me, it worked, and
it
still does..

Excellent! I wish I could lose that fast, but I am a very slow loser:
it's taken me 8 months to lose 10 pounds... My total is 40 gone, but it
has taken a loooong time! Part of my problem is exercise. I hate most
forms as they are so boring, and I'm restricted in what I'm allowed to
do because of the fibro: swimming and walking are about it! I try to do
my 2 miles 5 days a week, fetching my son home from school, and I try to
swim every week, but work can interfere with the best plans!

See that's my strenght actually.. I loooooooooooove to exercise.. I have to
be carefull not to do it too much (like I did a few weeks ago and had to
stop.. grrr)


There's different ways to live the program for different people..

Absolutely! And it's those differences that I need to understand.

And YES here in the States that portions are big enough for 2 FULL
meals..
and no I wouldn't doggie bag certain food.. but other (like chicken
breast
or fish that I add to a salad later) make good "left overs" and I don't
have
a dog..

I can see that might work...

You have to either doggie bag or trow away.. it's even worst in the States
than in Canada sometimes you have food for a whole family in one plate.. but
then Applebee's made a menu for WW and people complained that the portions
were too small... DUH...


What works for one person might not at all work for another.. I couldn't
eat
only vegetables and lean meat and have no treats.. because there's
nothing
wrong with treats anyway.. food is not the enemy..

Part of my low fat/lean meat/lots of veg regime is imposed by the lack
of gall bladder. Even a minor departure can have disastrous and painful
consequences! And food is not my enemy either. Naturally, I'm a
Nigella Lawson sort of a cook, with sympathy for the Two Fat Ladies!
Sometimes it's VERY hard, and sometimes I DO backslide, but not often as
paying for it is painful!


Not cool.. that would slow me down too.. I live on the principle that no
food is "off limit" since I don't have any physical "stop signs" and that I
can eat whatever I want, but in limited portions.. if I tell myself I can't
eat this or that.. that's when I start craving it REALLY BAD..

For exemple I've alway been a chicken wings maniac.. for real.. I LOVED
THOSE WINGS.. and ate a lot of them often.. I didn't say I can't have them..
just didn't choose to have them.. but if I'm craving them I can have them...
I had about 10 chicken wings in the last 2 years.. same goes for
everything..

A normal day for me is about 6 meals.. and 4 snacks.. works for me.. I don't
like pastries much.. but I like ice cream and that sort of stuff (it's HOT
HERE) so I find low pts alternatives.. mixed with fruits... mmmmmmmmmm *goes
downstairs to find a banana and yogurt*



--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

--
Will~

196.2 / 133.4 / 137 lbs
89 / 60.5 / 62.1 Kg

Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg
"Kate Dicey" wrote in message
...
Kara H wrote:

"Miss Violette" wrote:


I don't think Kate was judging Kara, I think she was wondering about the
difference in eating styles and considering if the styles are cultural
in
nature. One of the best thing about this group is our diversity and
Kate
celebrates that as much as anyone else, Lee


I don't think she was judging either. Some of her comments came off a
little
'but your way isn't my way' but I know for a fact that those were NOT
her
intentions and I probably read into it too much anyway! I'm good at
that!

-Kara.


This is my area of curiosity, if you like... Your's is *not* my way,
and this is not to say either one is better than the other: I'm just
wondering why these differences occur, so why some of us find it easier
to switch to the fruit and vegetables we all *know* are better for us
than the sugar and salt laden invented snacks and cakes and cookies,
even the low fat ones.

That doesn't mean that the snacks are BAD... see that's the idea that I have
a hard time with.. the idea that anything that isn't "veggies/fruits/etc" is
bad food and should be avoided.. there's no reason for that (unless it's a
medical reason)Overdoing them can be bad for your system.. but in moderation
there's nothing bad about them.. even the high fat ones at that.. as long as
you control the portions and don't overdo it.. having a snicker bar isn't a
sin or anything.. food is NOT the enemy... if it doesn't send you on a
binge... if you don't have any medical reason to avoid those.. why worry
about it ?


We can know it in our heads as much as we like,
but this doesn't mean we can find it easy to do!

Saying to someone who has a severe aversions to vegetables, 'But you
*KNOW* this is better for you: just eat them - they are delicious!' just
does not work! If we understand better WHY a person is like that, it
gets easier to support their excellent efforts and tailor our advice.
So, is not eating vegetables a cultural thing (some parts of the world
have far fewer vegetables in the diet than others, after all), a family
thing (never had them at home as a kid, so isn't used to vegetables on a
regular basis), a personal thing (choked on a carrot as a child, and
therefore is scared of eating vegetables), or a matter of the way their
taste buds are wired (my younger sister had the same food experiences as
I did at home, but there are very few vegetables she'll eat just as
vegetables! Chuck the same things in a soup or stew, or make coleslaw,
and she's happy!)? When I was a student, I had a friend who hated all
vegetables until I gave him fresh cooked ones: all he'd ever had before
was tinned vegetables! With parents brought up on them during the war
in a city area where fresh vegetables were hard to come by, this was all
he knew until I widened his horizons. So for him it was based on family
culture.

I'm not out to knock anyone's choices, though they may strike me as
unwise. I'm looking for a greater understanding of why we make those
choices, and why it is harder for some to switch to a healthier eating
lifestyle than for others. I'm all for finding healthier versions of
things, but I'm much more likely to buy a WW cookbook than a box of
sticky cakes or a pack of low fat crisp/chips! I'd look at using
chicken mince and low fat cooking methods for making Bolognese sauce
rather than buying a WW salt laden ready meal version. One of the big
differences that make this possible for me is that I work at home and my
time is flexible: I can take an hour or two to make cakes and complex
recipes during the day and shift my sewing time to the evenings when
James is in bed and I get no interruptions from the phone. Folk who are
working outside their homes sometimes need to make different choices
because they do not have my flexibility.

I *am* judgmental: we all are. But I'm looking for an understanding of
why we are the way we are, rather than putting my 'Kate knows best'
jackboots on and stamping all over everyones sensibilities and cultural
differences by telling someone with a fresh veg problem who currently
needs those snacks to help them through the day to stop buying the
crappy things and wasting their cash on them when fresh veg is cheaper,
better for them, and and if they are really hungry in the evening they'd
get better food and money value out of a nice 4 point ham sandwich!

--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!