Back from being lost at sea (long report)

In article ,
Doug Lerner wrote:

On 9/15/04 11:49 AM, in article , "Kevin
Stevens" wrote:

Like shrimp, chicken, and salmon? I can do that the rest of my life, no
problem. Last night ate at Outback. Grilled shrimp on the barbie,
caesar salad, grilled salmon with broccoli and butter. Lunch was El
Pollo Loco 4-piece chicken meal. Breakfast was a couple of fried eggs
topped with cheese. Finished off with some olives before bed.

That's (checking Fitday results) 14 gram carbs (actually less since I
didn't subtract the fiber out of the broccoli), 1257 calories, 64%
calories from fat.


Some calorie counts:

2 eggs: 160

fried (1T butter): 100

2 slices processed cheese: 100

Outback foods: They don't provide calorie counts, but lets say 800 calories,
including butter, assuming you didn't add bread

El Pollo Loco: They have an online calculator. I don't know which 2 sides
you chose, so I chose low-cal ones: 1067

At least 2127 calories

I could do this on my diet, but I think it's definitely much higher than
1257 calories!

Well, if you're just going to guess, su

Per Fitday:

2 large fried eggs: 181 This listing includes margarine or some such
for frying, which I don't use. If I used butter, I'd count it, even
though you don't eat nearly all the butter used to fry eggs. In this
case I didn't.

I didn't use anywhere two oz of cheese, that's like a chunk. Try .5 oz,
measured. 50 cal.

Your guess for breakfast: 360 cal. Actual: 231. You're more than 50%
high.

Outback: You're guessing again. Actual consumption, numbers per Fitday:

6 grilled large shrimp: 56 cal
2 cups lettuce: 13 cal
2 tablespoons Caesar dressing: 155 cal
(No, I didn't count the bit of Parmesan on top because I looked it up
once and it's like nothing.)
Eat around the croutons.
Broccoli, raw, 1 cup: 25 cal, 5 carb. There's not a cup of broccoli
once you pick it out of the mixed veggies, but I always try to estimate
up rather than down. Same with the carbs.
1 pat butter (on the broccoli): 36 cal
8 oz salmon, raw (yield after cooking): 316 cal

Your guess: 800 cal. Actual: 601 cal. Pretty close, only 33% over.

El Pollo Loco: Your guess: 1067. Actual (add up a four-piece chicken,
which is breast, thigh, leg, wing): 476 per EPL's nutrition info.

You're over 50% high again.

Maybe your problem is that you're just a bad guesser. Do you actually
track your intake using Fitday or some similar?

KeS

Doug Lerner wrote in message ...
I also, to be honest, feel less lethargic than when just on low-carb. Less
brain fog too. I think, maybe, that healthy carbs are maybe not so bad for
the body after all. They might be good for you! I'm not eating sweet things
at all at any rate - mostly because they are too high in calorie, not
because they are high in carbs. In other words, a low-calorie diet also
seems to naturally control carbs to some degree. (The reverse isn't true
though - when you just count carbs it is *easy* to eat way too many
calories! That's the exact same problem that a low-fat diet has.)

well, yeah. While I've only "dieted" once, I found limiting calories
to be the most rational approach, and it worked. I only limit carbs to
maintain a healthy blood insulin level, and prefer fat/protein to
carbs for filling snacks.

The variety is actually thrilling. I even ate at Wendy's last week with a
friend and had a spicy chicken filet sandwich (317 calories) and a Caesers
salad (137 calories), all dutifully recorded.

ah, Wendy's in Tokyo... Back in the early 90's they were the only real
food outside McD's & KFC (and the weird solitary Arby's that was in
Shibuya at the time). I used to live on their Monterey Ranch Chicken,
and I didn't get fat on them, since I was biking and walking so much.

Which reminds me, all your journalling covered the input side of the
equation, but not the output.

My advice: move your ass if you want to lose weight.

There's a reasonably good bike store in Naka-Meguro that sells western
bikes:

http://www.nukaya.com/

Western Tokyo is a great place to ride around, especially on the
weekends.

Shoot for 2000/day calories and use exercise to create a caloric
deficit. While I haven't tried it, I still think the 'metabolic
advantage' of atkins is mostly bunkum, especially for long-term diet
success and maintenance.

Eat wisely, exercise more, shoot for 1kg/week loss rate (no less & no
more), and you'll be fine.

Doug Lerner wrote in message ...
I also, to be honest, feel less lethargic than when just on low-carb. Less
brain fog too. I think, maybe, that healthy carbs are maybe not so bad for
the body after all. They might be good for you! I'm not eating sweet things
at all at any rate - mostly because they are too high in calorie, not
because they are high in carbs. In other words, a low-calorie diet also
seems to naturally control carbs to some degree. (The reverse isn't true
though - when you just count carbs it is *easy* to eat way too many
calories! That's the exact same problem that a low-fat diet has.)

well, yeah. While I've only "dieted" once, I found limiting calories
to be the most rational approach, and it worked. I only limit carbs to
maintain a healthy blood insulin level, and prefer fat/protein to
carbs for filling snacks.

The variety is actually thrilling. I even ate at Wendy's last week with a
friend and had a spicy chicken filet sandwich (317 calories) and a Caesers
salad (137 calories), all dutifully recorded.

ah, Wendy's in Tokyo... Back in the early 90's they were the only real
food outside McD's & KFC (and the weird solitary Arby's that was in
Shibuya at the time). I used to live on their Monterey Ranch Chicken,
and I didn't get fat on them, since I was biking and walking so much.

Which reminds me, all your journalling covered the input side of the
equation, but not the output.

My advice: move your ass if you want to lose weight.

There's a reasonably good bike store in Naka-Meguro that sells western
bikes:

http://www.nukaya.com/

Western Tokyo is a great place to ride around, especially on the
weekends.

Shoot for 2000/day calories and use exercise to create a caloric
deficit. While I haven't tried it, I still think the 'metabolic
advantage' of atkins is mostly bunkum, especially for long-term diet
success and maintenance.

Eat wisely, exercise more, shoot for 1kg/week loss rate (no less & no
more), and you'll be fine.

Doug Lerner wrote in message ...
I also, to be honest, feel less lethargic than when just on low-carb. Less
brain fog too. I think, maybe, that healthy carbs are maybe not so bad for
the body after all. They might be good for you! I'm not eating sweet things
at all at any rate - mostly because they are too high in calorie, not
because they are high in carbs. In other words, a low-calorie diet also
seems to naturally control carbs to some degree. (The reverse isn't true
though - when you just count carbs it is *easy* to eat way too many
calories! That's the exact same problem that a low-fat diet has.)

well, yeah. While I've only "dieted" once, I found limiting calories
to be the most rational approach, and it worked. I only limit carbs to
maintain a healthy blood insulin level, and prefer fat/protein to
carbs for filling snacks.

The variety is actually thrilling. I even ate at Wendy's last week with a
friend and had a spicy chicken filet sandwich (317 calories) and a Caesers
salad (137 calories), all dutifully recorded.

ah, Wendy's in Tokyo... Back in the early 90's they were the only real
food outside McD's & KFC (and the weird solitary Arby's that was in
Shibuya at the time). I used to live on their Monterey Ranch Chicken,
and I didn't get fat on them, since I was biking and walking so much.

Which reminds me, all your journalling covered the input side of the
equation, but not the output.

My advice: move your ass if you want to lose weight.

There's a reasonably good bike store in Naka-Meguro that sells western
bikes:

http://www.nukaya.com/

Western Tokyo is a great place to ride around, especially on the
weekends.

Shoot for 2000/day calories and use exercise to create a caloric
deficit. While I haven't tried it, I still think the 'metabolic
advantage' of atkins is mostly bunkum, especially for long-term diet
success and maintenance.

Eat wisely, exercise more, shoot for 1kg/week loss rate (no less & no
more), and you'll be fine.

On 9/15/04 2:29 PM, in article , "Kevin
Stevens" wrote:


Maybe your problem is that you're just a bad guesser. Do you actually
track your intake using Fitday or some similar?

No - I look at actual packages and weigh things and just don't eat anything
unless I know the actual calories. Usually if I guess I end up *under*
guessing, which is dangerous for a diet!

doug

On 9/15/04 2:48 PM, in article
, "Heywood Mogroot"
wrote:

ah, Wendy's in Tokyo... Back in the early 90's they were the only real
food outside McD's & KFC (and the weird solitary Arby's that was in
Shibuya at the time). I used to live on their Monterey Ranch Chicken,
and I didn't get fat on them, since I was biking and walking so much.

I've never been to Arbys in Tokyo. I think I heard they disappeared.

One thing about Wendys baked potatoes here - they are really tiny compared
to the ones served in the U.S.!


Which reminds me, all your journalling covered the input side of the
equation, but not the output.

Yes... I didn't post much about that. I use a Bullworker each morning and
take my dog for three walks a day. But that's about it.


My advice: move your ass if you want to lose weight.

There's a reasonably good bike store in Naka-Meguro that sells western
bikes:

http://www.nukaya.com/

What's the difference between ordinary bikes and "western" bikes? I have a
regular old 3-speed bike.


Western Tokyo is a great place to ride around, especially on the
weekends.

Yes - lots of river routes near my house.


Shoot for 2000/day calories and use exercise to create a caloric
deficit. While I haven't tried it, I still think the 'metabolic
advantage' of atkins is mostly bunkum, especially for long-term diet
success and maintenance.

I agree.


Eat wisely, exercise more, shoot for 1kg/week loss rate (no less & no
more), and you'll be fine.

Ganbarimasu!

doug

On 9/15/04 2:48 PM, in article
, "Heywood Mogroot"
wrote:

ah, Wendy's in Tokyo... Back in the early 90's they were the only real
food outside McD's & KFC (and the weird solitary Arby's that was in
Shibuya at the time). I used to live on their Monterey Ranch Chicken,
and I didn't get fat on them, since I was biking and walking so much.

I've never been to Arbys in Tokyo. I think I heard they disappeared.

One thing about Wendys baked potatoes here - they are really tiny compared
to the ones served in the U.S.!


Which reminds me, all your journalling covered the input side of the
equation, but not the output.

Yes... I didn't post much about that. I use a Bullworker each morning and
take my dog for three walks a day. But that's about it.


My advice: move your ass if you want to lose weight.

There's a reasonably good bike store in Naka-Meguro that sells western
bikes:

http://www.nukaya.com/

What's the difference between ordinary bikes and "western" bikes? I have a
regular old 3-speed bike.


Western Tokyo is a great place to ride around, especially on the
weekends.

Yes - lots of river routes near my house.


Shoot for 2000/day calories and use exercise to create a caloric
deficit. While I haven't tried it, I still think the 'metabolic
advantage' of atkins is mostly bunkum, especially for long-term diet
success and maintenance.

I agree.


Eat wisely, exercise more, shoot for 1kg/week loss rate (no less & no
more), and you'll be fine.

Ganbarimasu!

doug

On 9/15/04 2:48 PM, in article
, "Heywood Mogroot"
wrote:

ah, Wendy's in Tokyo... Back in the early 90's they were the only real
food outside McD's & KFC (and the weird solitary Arby's that was in
Shibuya at the time). I used to live on their Monterey Ranch Chicken,
and I didn't get fat on them, since I was biking and walking so much.

I've never been to Arbys in Tokyo. I think I heard they disappeared.

One thing about Wendys baked potatoes here - they are really tiny compared
to the ones served in the U.S.!


Which reminds me, all your journalling covered the input side of the
equation, but not the output.

Yes... I didn't post much about that. I use a Bullworker each morning and
take my dog for three walks a day. But that's about it.


My advice: move your ass if you want to lose weight.

There's a reasonably good bike store in Naka-Meguro that sells western
bikes:

http://www.nukaya.com/

What's the difference between ordinary bikes and "western" bikes? I have a
regular old 3-speed bike.


Western Tokyo is a great place to ride around, especially on the
weekends.

Yes - lots of river routes near my house.


Shoot for 2000/day calories and use exercise to create a caloric
deficit. While I haven't tried it, I still think the 'metabolic
advantage' of atkins is mostly bunkum, especially for long-term diet
success and maintenance.

I agree.


Eat wisely, exercise more, shoot for 1kg/week loss rate (no less & no
more), and you'll be fine.

Ganbarimasu!

doug

Doug Lerner wrote:
|| On 9/15/04 11:42 AM, in article ,
|| "Roger Zoul" wrote:
||
|||||
||||| I am wondering now what the deal is.
|||||
||||| I still don't eat large carb portions, as you can imagine from the
||||| calories I mentioned above. The reason I avoid them is not because
||||| of the carbs but because the "calories per volume" in something
||||| like rice just doesn't seem worth it for the satisfaction
||||| received. So I seem to be naturally steering away from *large*
||||| rice and pasta and other carb portions. For that same reason I
||||| haven't eaten any bread. Two slices of toast at 150 calories
||||| (with no butter - too caloric!) just doesn't sound filling enough
||||| to be worth the calories.
|||||
||||| So maybe that is it? Maybe by counting calories I am just
||||| naturally keeping carbs down to a level that is preventing carb
||||| cravings?
|||
||| Sure....if you don't eat much, then your body will use ALL of the
||| stuff you eat to fuel itself. Then it will turn to fat stores. LC
||| works better for most (especially those who are IR and T2s) since
||| it levels out BG better. You would likely be less hungry on LC.
||
|| Maybe. But the bottom line is that with LC I tend to drift towards
|| 116-117 kg. That means I also have to count calories. If I have to
|| count calories *anyway* isn't it easier to just count calories?

? Using fitday, you can count everything at the same time....it's no more
difficult to count carbs and calories than just one or the other.

||
|| By the way, I counted the carbs I ate yesterday. I think it was
|| about 175 grams.
||
|| That's still probably 1/3rd - 1/4th or less of what I'd be eating if
|| I were completely off my diet altogether...

Hey, if that works for you, more power to you.

Doug Lerner wrote:
|| On 9/15/04 11:42 AM, in article ,
|| "Roger Zoul" wrote:
||
|||||
||||| I am wondering now what the deal is.
|||||
||||| I still don't eat large carb portions, as you can imagine from the
||||| calories I mentioned above. The reason I avoid them is not because
||||| of the carbs but because the "calories per volume" in something
||||| like rice just doesn't seem worth it for the satisfaction
||||| received. So I seem to be naturally steering away from *large*
||||| rice and pasta and other carb portions. For that same reason I
||||| haven't eaten any bread. Two slices of toast at 150 calories
||||| (with no butter - too caloric!) just doesn't sound filling enough
||||| to be worth the calories.
|||||
||||| So maybe that is it? Maybe by counting calories I am just
||||| naturally keeping carbs down to a level that is preventing carb
||||| cravings?
|||
||| Sure....if you don't eat much, then your body will use ALL of the
||| stuff you eat to fuel itself. Then it will turn to fat stores. LC
||| works better for most (especially those who are IR and T2s) since
||| it levels out BG better. You would likely be less hungry on LC.
||
|| Maybe. But the bottom line is that with LC I tend to drift towards
|| 116-117 kg. That means I also have to count calories. If I have to
|| count calories *anyway* isn't it easier to just count calories?

? Using fitday, you can count everything at the same time....it's no more
difficult to count carbs and calories than just one or the other.

||
|| By the way, I counted the carbs I ate yesterday. I think it was
|| about 175 grams.
||
|| That's still probably 1/3rd - 1/4th or less of what I'd be eating if
|| I were completely off my diet altogether...

Hey, if that works for you, more power to you.