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sabotaged by hunger



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 11th, 2004, 08:13 PM
Auntie Em
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Default sabotaged by hunger

Knowing that I must get rid of this extra 40 lbs that I am lugging around, I
have really put forth a concentrated effort to eat better, eat less, and
exercise more.

The problem I am having is with hunger. Generally, when I get up in the
morning, the LAST thing on my mind is food so I can get away with forcing
myself to eat a few pieces of fruit or a small bown of some type of granola
type cereal. Even in the afternoon, food still isn't of a huge interest to
me so having a nice salad for lunch isn't a problem.

By dinner, however, I am a ravenous beast. Even trying to eat 6 small meals
a day (rather than three), doesn't alter my hunger pattern. By 6 pm I am so
hungry I am virtually frantic. I have been trying to satisfy this by eating
a HUGE salad 20 minutes before the main meal, but it doesn't even put a
small dent in it.

I have been trying to eat sensibly for dinner. For instance, the other
night I had a small pork chop and small portions of peas and corn on the
cob. I was still so hungry after dinner that I was nibbling on stuff in the
refrigerator as I was putting food away and washing the dishes (not 10
minutes after dinner was finished). Even on those nights where I eat a big
meal, I am starving again within two hours and find that I have to eat
something to kill the hunger pangs.

Trying to distract myself from this I have tried taking nice long walks
after dinner but all I can think about is getting back and getting something
to eat. The first thing I do when I get back is head for the fridge.

Also, I have found that eating a LOT of salad (like I have been doing),
really upsets my stomach a lot and is very uncomfortable. If I eat a big
salad in conjunction with dinner, I don't dare go very far away from a
bathroom and wouldn't dream of taking a walk. It is a very unpleasant
experience.

Despite all my good intentions and desire to get this weight off I am
finding out that all this is making me very unhappy and miserable.

Can you guys offer your insights and suggestions on how to deal with this
situation so I can lose some weight?

Thanks in advance.

Em


  #2  
Old May 11th, 2004, 09:23 PM
Crafting Mom
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Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

Auntie Em wrote:

Can you guys offer your insights and suggestions on how to deal with this
situation so I can lose some weight?


One of my favorite, self-contained hunger suppressants is a nice "chef"
salad of green vegetables (low starch), top with protein of choice (my
favorites are chicken or fish, sometimes ground beef), dress with 1
tablespoon of real olive oil (120 calories worth), vinegar, and herbs of
choice.

It's basically a "one dish meal" (ranging from 400-500 calories due to the
protein and fat content) in which the fat digests slowly and sustains me
for a long long time. I try to have one every day to control portions of
the other things I eat.

I use foods that are naturally low in carbohydrates, and are free of
additives and fillers whenever I want to just eat and be satisfied and
carry on with life, without the distraction of hunger/cravings and the need
to "do something" to keep my "mind off eating"... Call it an "antidote for
cravings", if you will.

I'm not on a very strict low-carb diet, as I do have days when I eat fruits,
or a bit of wild rice or something like that, but I make sure the antidote
is firmly in place should I feel the need to overeat.
--
The post you just read, unless otherwise noted, is strictly my opinion
and experience. Please interpret accordingly.
  #3  
Old May 12th, 2004, 02:26 AM
Doug Lerner
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Default sabotaged by hunger

I know where you are coming from, having been there.

First, you should realize that it does not make any difference what time of
day you eat. All that matters is your total average intake versus your
energy expended.

Since you recognize that your problem time is later in the day (same with
me) you should just balance your calories accordingly. Eat a small
breakfast. Eat a small lunch and save up for the evening.

Now, about huge hunger cravings. There are two practical solutions for that:

1. Eat larger portions of low calorie foods. For example, make a big stew
for dinner chock full of fish or white meat chicken, lots of vegies in a
sauce made from boiled down tomato juice with lots of savory spices, like
curry. It is filling! And keep a few low-calorie snacks on hand, in small,
pre-portioned packages so you don't go through a whole box.

2. Reduce carbs. This will help control hunger spikes. For example, the corn
on the carb you mentioned is very high in carbs and glycemic index. Eating
something like that can actually make you feel hungrier after eating it!
Look at lower glycemic index foods. They will help with controlling hunger
naturally.

doug

On 5/12/04 4:13 AM, in article , "Auntie Em"
Auntie
wrote:

Knowing that I must get rid of this extra 40 lbs that I am lugging around, I
have really put forth a concentrated effort to eat better, eat less, and
exercise more.

The problem I am having is with hunger. Generally, when I get up in the
morning, the LAST thing on my mind is food so I can get away with forcing
myself to eat a few pieces of fruit or a small bown of some type of granola
type cereal. Even in the afternoon, food still isn't of a huge interest to
me so having a nice salad for lunch isn't a problem.

By dinner, however, I am a ravenous beast. Even trying to eat 6 small meals
a day (rather than three), doesn't alter my hunger pattern. By 6 pm I am so
hungry I am virtually frantic. I have been trying to satisfy this by eating
a HUGE salad 20 minutes before the main meal, but it doesn't even put a
small dent in it.

I have been trying to eat sensibly for dinner. For instance, the other
night I had a small pork chop and small portions of peas and corn on the
cob. I was still so hungry after dinner that I was nibbling on stuff in the
refrigerator as I was putting food away and washing the dishes (not 10
minutes after dinner was finished). Even on those nights where I eat a big
meal, I am starving again within two hours and find that I have to eat
something to kill the hunger pangs.

Trying to distract myself from this I have tried taking nice long walks
after dinner but all I can think about is getting back and getting something
to eat. The first thing I do when I get back is head for the fridge.

Also, I have found that eating a LOT of salad (like I have been doing),
really upsets my stomach a lot and is very uncomfortable. If I eat a big
salad in conjunction with dinner, I don't dare go very far away from a
bathroom and wouldn't dream of taking a walk. It is a very unpleasant
experience.

Despite all my good intentions and desire to get this weight off I am
finding out that all this is making me very unhappy and miserable.

Can you guys offer your insights and suggestions on how to deal with this
situation so I can lose some weight?

Thanks in advance.

Em



  #4  
Old May 12th, 2004, 09:16 AM
Lictor
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Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

"Auntie Em" Auntie wrote in message
...
The problem I am having is with hunger. Generally, when I get up in the
morning, the LAST thing on my mind is food so I can get away with forcing
myself to eat a few pieces of fruit or a small bown of some type of

granola
type cereal.


If you're not hungry, there is no point in forcing yourself to eat stuff you
don't want. The "breakfast must provide 25% of the energy for the day" deal
is a pure invention of the breakfast, and mainly cereal, industry. Unless
you have shares there, you don't have to follow that "rule". Actually, if
the dinner is your main meal of the day, it's pretty normal *not* to be
hungry in the morning. That's the natural way for your body to balance out a
high calorie meal with a low calorie one.
For some people, the problem is not being hungry right after coming out of
bed. Or maybe they have to hurry in the morning to prepare stuff or leave
for work, and they experience some stress, which can lower hunger. Again,
there is no rule that you should eat right after bed. If you're only
slightly hungry at 10am, then have a fruit or whatever at 10am and call it
your breakfast if you want.

Even in the afternoon, food still isn't of a huge interest to
me so having a nice salad for lunch isn't a problem.


Good.

By dinner, however, I am a ravenous beast. Even trying to eat 6 small

meals
a day (rather than three), doesn't alter my hunger pattern. By 6 pm I am

so
hungry I am virtually frantic.


What's happening by then? *When* does the hunger really start?
Mid-afternoon? When you get back home? When husband/kids are back home?
Usually, hunger comes rather slowly. You start to get a little hungry, then
some more, and ravenous normally happens quite a while later.
If hunger kind of jumps at you all of a sudden, maybe it's caused by some
external event rather than by your own body wanting nutriments. Maybe you
have been keeping yourself busy throughout the day, and you hadn't noticed
the hunger yet - some people get so absorbed in their work or whatever they
can even forget to pee or drink. Or maybe dinner has some special meaning to
you, and this somehow translates into hunger.
Or maybe you were doing "to well" during the day, and really not eating
enough, and this is the way your body is coming back at you with a revenge.
However, if you *really* do not feel hungry, this is unlikely.

I have been trying to satisfy this by eating
a HUGE salad 20 minutes before the main meal, but it doesn't even put a
small dent in it.


What happens if you try to eat something really *slow* and *filling*
something like one hour before the meal? I thinking something like nuts or
dark chocolate, in reasonnable quantity. Does this cut the hunger some or is
it like you ate nothing at all? If stuff like this doesn't lessen the hunger
by a significant amount, it would point to some psychological mechanism,
nuts/chocolate *is* filling.

Trying to distract myself from this I have tried taking nice long walks
after dinner but all I can think about is getting back and getting

something
to eat. The first thing I do when I get back is head for the fridge.


This is really obsessive. So, either it's *real* hunger (like, you really
didn't eat enough, by a wide margin) or it's a real psychological issue.
Moderate hunger just won't cause cravings like this.
You might try eating a really filling dinner, and see what happens. I mean
something lowish in fast carbs (sugars, potatoes, white rice) and highish in
fats and proteins and fibers - while remaining reasonnable in calories (that
would be around 600-800).

Also, I have found that eating a LOT of salad (like I have been doing),
really upsets my stomach a lot and is very uncomfortable.


Then don't eat salad. If by salad, you mean the green leafy stuff, like
lettuce, with not much else thrown in, it's not really interresting food
anyway. It's mainly water, with little fibers and little vitamins. It's not
very filling either, since you're merely eating water in a fancy shape. You
might want to try real "green" vegetables instead (broccolis, eggplant,
zucchini. tomato, French bean, cabbage...), cooked or raw.


  #5  
Old May 12th, 2004, 12:54 PM
jmk
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Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

On 5/11/2004 4:23 PM, Crafting Mom wrote:
Auntie Em wrote:


Can you guys offer your insights and suggestions on how to deal with this
situation so I can lose some weight?



One of my favorite, self-contained hunger suppressants is a nice "chef"
salad of green vegetables (low starch), top with protein of choice (my
favorites are chicken or fish, sometimes ground beef), dress with 1
tablespoon of real olive oil (120 calories worth), vinegar, and herbs of
choice.


CM brings up a good point. For some people, fats like that in olive oil
are very satisfying. For example, a wasa cracker with a tablespoon of
peanut butter is a satisfying snack for me. For other people, fiber is
very filling. I find that I need a relatively high amount of fiber in
my diet to feel full (wasa cracker, 2g fiber, pb, 1g fiber). Also,
sometimes volume helps. The trick is figuring out what works for you.


--
jmk in NC
  #6  
Old May 12th, 2004, 03:08 PM
Julianne
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Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

You know, there was a rumor several years back that granola was good for
you. And yes, the idea of granola, a mixture of dried fruits and whole
grains, is in fact a good thing. But, looking at the cereal boxes, it
occurs to me that they offer very little benefit over other cereals except
for a little fiber. Are you watching the sugar content.

Fruit is also a good thing but it can affect blood sugars. To minimize this
effect, eat your fruit with protein or healthy fats. I have my blueberries
in my protein shake. Eaten alone, I will start craving sugar or starches in
a couple of hours.

The most effective way I can control my appetite is watching sugars (even
'natural' sugars), increasing protein and exercise. If your excess weight
is primarily around your midsection, do some research on Syndrome X, insulin
resistance, etc. and then look up the Glycemic index.

Best of luck. Hunger will sabotage you and set you up for failure. I hope
you get a handle on it soon.

j
"Auntie Em" Auntie wrote in message
...
Knowing that I must get rid of this extra 40 lbs that I am lugging around,

I
have really put forth a concentrated effort to eat better, eat less, and
exercise more.

The problem I am having is with hunger. Generally, when I get up in the
morning, the LAST thing on my mind is food so I can get away with forcing
myself to eat a few pieces of fruit or a small bown of some type of

granola
type cereal. Even in the afternoon, food still isn't of a huge interest

to
me so having a nice salad for lunch isn't a problem.

By dinner, however, I am a ravenous beast. Even trying to eat 6 small

meals
a day (rather than three), doesn't alter my hunger pattern. By 6 pm I am

so
hungry I am virtually frantic. I have been trying to satisfy this by

eating
a HUGE salad 20 minutes before the main meal, but it doesn't even put a
small dent in it.

I have been trying to eat sensibly for dinner. For instance, the other
night I had a small pork chop and small portions of peas and corn on the
cob. I was still so hungry after dinner that I was nibbling on stuff in

the
refrigerator as I was putting food away and washing the dishes (not 10
minutes after dinner was finished). Even on those nights where I eat a

big
meal, I am starving again within two hours and find that I have to eat
something to kill the hunger pangs.

Trying to distract myself from this I have tried taking nice long walks
after dinner but all I can think about is getting back and getting

something
to eat. The first thing I do when I get back is head for the fridge.

Also, I have found that eating a LOT of salad (like I have been doing),
really upsets my stomach a lot and is very uncomfortable. If I eat a big
salad in conjunction with dinner, I don't dare go very far away from a
bathroom and wouldn't dream of taking a walk. It is a very unpleasant
experience.

Despite all my good intentions and desire to get this weight off I am
finding out that all this is making me very unhappy and miserable.

Can you guys offer your insights and suggestions on how to deal with this
situation so I can lose some weight?

Thanks in advance.

Em




  #7  
Old May 12th, 2004, 08:43 PM
Cynthia Perry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

On Tue, 11 May 2004 14:13:03 -0500, "Auntie Em" Auntie
wrote:

Knowing that I must get rid of this extra 40 lbs that I am lugging around, I
have really put forth a concentrated effort to eat better, eat less, and
exercise more.

The problem I am having is with hunger. Generally, when I get up in the
morning, the LAST thing on my mind is food so I can get away with forcing
myself to eat a few pieces of fruit or a small bown of some type of granola
type cereal. Even in the afternoon, food still isn't of a huge interest to
me so having a nice salad for lunch isn't a problem.


I hear that. I can, quite easily, go without so much as touching a
piece of food until about 5PM... at which point, I turn into the
RAVENOUS BEAST.



By dinner, however, I am a ravenous beast. Even trying to eat 6 small meals
a day (rather than three), doesn't alter my hunger pattern. By 6 pm I am so
hungry I am virtually frantic. I have been trying to satisfy this by eating
a HUGE salad 20 minutes before the main meal, but it doesn't even put a
small dent in it.



Well, I found that making myself eat breakfast and lunch help.

One thing that could conceivably help, make sure that your breakfast
and lunch have more protein... and some fat!

Fruit and granola is primarily carbohydrates... and won't last you.

Make sure each of the small meals has more protein and that should
help. It may also help to look for foods with fiber... check your
breakfast cereal, and if it doesn't have a lot of fiber, look for one
that does.

This helps totally to control my inner beast!

Also, drink plenty of water, that helps too!



I have been trying to eat sensibly for dinner. For instance, the other
night I had a small pork chop and small portions of peas and corn on the
cob. I was still so hungry after dinner that I was nibbling on stuff in the
refrigerator as I was putting food away and washing the dishes (not 10
minutes after dinner was finished). Even on those nights where I eat a big
meal, I am starving again within two hours and find that I have to eat
something to kill the hunger pangs.



OK, have a large pork chop... and switch the veggies to something with
fewer carbs and more fiber. Say broccoli, or cauliflower, or greens.

You may be having carbohydrate induced cravings... it might be
worthwhile for you to consider checking out the Atkins or Sugar
Busters or South Beach diet books at your local library.



Trying to distract myself from this I have tried taking nice long walks
after dinner but all I can think about is getting back and getting something
to eat. The first thing I do when I get back is head for the fridge.


Again, get more protein into your small meals. Maybe add some fats
too... we don't know exactly what you are eating.


Also, I have found that eating a LOT of salad (like I have been doing),
really upsets my stomach a lot and is very uncomfortable. If I eat a big
salad in conjunction with dinner, I don't dare go very far away from a
bathroom and wouldn't dream of taking a walk. It is a very unpleasant
experience.


Better then to split your salads up... have a little salad with each
mini-meal rather than do a huge salad all at once. Your body is
speaking to you about this... listen.



Cynthia
  #8  
Old May 13th, 2004, 03:42 AM
Auntie Em
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

first things first... so, how many calories do you eat for breakfast
and lunch, what do you eat for breakfast and lunch, how many calories
per day, how much do you exercise, how tall are you, and how quickly
have you been losing lately.


Well, truthfully, *if* I eat any breakfast and lunch (big if), normally it
will be something that "tastes good" to me. Otherwise, I cannot stomach it.
Since I really abhor fruit, it is a rare morning that I will eat any, if I
do, it's a banana.

Lunch usually consists of a sandwich. It could be anything. tuna, balogna,
salami, cheese, chicken salad. You name it.

I figure *if* I eat breakfast, it runs around 200 calories and *if* I eat
lunch it is around 350- 500 calories depending on what the sandwich is.

I shoot for around 2,000 calories a day, but I usually end up eating
significantly more than that.

I don't exercise much. I do five miles on my exercise bike 3 times a week
and usually spend about 1/2 walking around my neighborhood a couple of times
a week. Other than housework, that's about it.

I'm 5'4" and I weight 175 pounds and I am 44 years old. I haven't been
losing anything. I have been gaining.

One other thing I wanted to ask, since you and the others seem to be very
knowledgeable about these things.

How does genetics really figure in weight gain? The reason I ask is that my
paternal grandmother was a very heavy woman (probably around 200 pounds at
5'2"). The thing is - she was extremely active (with 12 kids, how could you
not be????). During the summer she worked in the fields and "put up" food
for the winter. In addition to taking care of a dozen children, she was
constantly working physically. She washed her clothes by boiling them in a
POT! There was no washing machine. Everything was done by hand.

As far as I can tell from my fathers description of their diets there wasn't
much food and there sure wasn't much meat except for the odd rabbit now and
then, a chicken or maybe a little potted pork. Meals consisted of a LOT of
fresh vegetables in the summer and lot of canned vegetables in the winter.
Lots and lots of beans, eggs, and whatever was available.

Yet, this woman was very heavy. Solid as a rock, mind you, with stamina
that would put a mule to shame. But nevertheless FAT!

My dad has much the same build. He eats like the proverbial bird and yet
weighs a good 210 on his 5"9" frame. He has always been "big", as I recall,
even when he had intensly physical jobs.

So my question is... can some of this weight that I have be genetically
determined? Does this theory exist? I am just wondering.

Thanks for all assistance and input on my OP.

Em


  #9  
Old May 13th, 2004, 08:49 AM
Lictor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

"Auntie Em" Auntie wrote in message
...
How does genetics really figure in weight gain?


Genetics relates to weight in two ways :
- Losing or gaining weight is still a straight matter of calories in vs
calories out. But, how much you benefit from extra calories and how much you
lose from not enough calories seems to depend on genetics. Also, different
people will have different metabolism or will burn more or less calories for
the same amount of exercise. So, some active people will be stable on a 3000
calories diet, while others will gain weight on the same intake with the
same activity level. For instance, several experiences (Rose in 1961, Sobal
in 1989) have shown that there is no *direct* relationship between obesity
and caloric intake. The Sims' study has shown that when force-fed large
amount of food (around 10,000 calories/day), people gained weight in very
dissimilar fashion - some people in the study barely managed to gain 12
pounds in six months.
- It seems everyone has a genetical weight (or rather fat percentage)
set-point. This means your body is trying its best to keep a pretty stable
amount of fat (with seasonnal variations). That's great news if your
set-point happens to be within what is fashionable. That's good news if it's
within healthy BMI values. This means that eating according to your hunger
will let your body do the work for you. But sometimes, your set-point is at
overweight values. Usually, this is not unhealthy, especially in women where
the fat tends to go in healthy locations (bellow the belly).

It *seems* there are also inherited non-genetics factors. Some studies (IIRC
in Nothern Europe) have shown that people who had suffered from famine had a
tendency to have children with better adaptation to famine. This goes
against the Darwinian theory and seems to fit the Lamack theory. The idea is
that only part of our genetics is expressed. So, the hormones from the
mother can have an influence on the fetus, by strenghtening or reducing some
characteristics. It's possible that famine triggers a set of metabolical
changes in the mother's body, and that some of them are long term, and that
these changes triggers other changes in the fetus, as a way to be better
adapted to the envirronment. I would be curious to see what happens long
term to babies born from mothers under a ketogenic diet (starvation, diet,
local conditions...), especially when you can factor out the cultural issues
(like, babies adopted right after birth).

So, you can indeed have genetics factors. Up to fairly recently, your
familly members were survivors. In case of famine, they were the ones with
the best survival chances. As you point out, your grandmother was not
*unhealthy*. She was just fat - and strong. But this has turned out as a
disadvantage in recent years. However, genetics is only a factor. I don't
think it can explain real obesity (BMI30) by itself. In most cases, it is
merely a single factor among many others (cultural, psychological, non
genetics metabolical traits...). It's perfectly possible to become fat
without any genetics factor. It's also possible to lose weight despite a
genetic factor. It might just be a little harder than for other people.
It's also worth considering how *slim* you want to be. If your body wants
you to be on the overweight side, aiming for very slim is going to be a
permanent struggle against hunger. But aiming for the "healthy but with some
fat left" range and building some muscle (which you might have a genetic
advantage with, after all, your grand mother was not a wimp) might be a very
workable compromise.

As far as I can tell from my fathers description of their diets there

wasn't
much food and there sure wasn't much meat except for the odd rabbit now

and
then, a chicken or maybe a little potted pork. Meals consisted of a LOT

of
fresh vegetables in the summer and lot of canned vegetables in the winter.
Lots and lots of beans, eggs, and whatever was available.

Yet, this woman was very heavy. Solid as a rock, mind you, with stamina
that would put a mule to shame. But nevertheless FAT!

My dad has much the same build. He eats like the proverbial bird and yet
weighs a good 210 on his 5"9" frame. He has always been "big", as I

recall,
even when he had intensly physical jobs.


It's perfectly possible that he eats more than he thinks he does. The
people who knows you only in daytime probably think you eat like a bird too,
because they don't see you having dinner. It's also pretty reasonnable to
think that all that weight is not only fat. That's what we used to call
"strong men", both fat and muscular. That's a genetic body shape, and until
recently, it was the best one to be born with. Then, you have to decide what
you want to do with your genetics. I have the same kind of shape as a man,
and I know that aiming for fashion-model buttless slim would be
unreasonnable. But I can aim for a BMI around 24-25 and build enough muscles
to make it look good, since building muscles comes very easy to me, merely
walking does the job on my legs. Unfortunately, that's something men have an
easier time with, because bulky is still a somewhat fashionable option.


  #10  
Old May 13th, 2004, 02:07 PM
Chris Braun
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Posts: n/a
Default sabotaged by hunger

On 13 May 2004 03:13:15 GMT, Ignoramus20355
wrote:

If it was me, I would also eat a 300 cal piece of fat during lunch,
like a piece of lard, that could greatly help with your evening
hunger.


I hope you're kidding. Apart from being disgusting, lard is not a
healthy form of fat. While fat can help with controlling hunger, the
OP would be much better advised to eat a form of fat like nuts or nut
butter, or a dairy product such as cheese (with the benefits of
calcium).

Chris

 




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