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#161
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"Ignoramus760" wrote in message ... On Mon, 02 May 2005 08:37:18 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote: Ignoramus760 wrote: On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:55:54 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote: Ignoramus760 wrote: I am not a pessimist or optimist, I am a realist. Pessimism and optimism are both unhelpful. With all the benefits why is it realistic to be concerned about future weight gain? The statistics are, unfortunately, not encouraging. Given all the short term benefits that doesn't seem consistent, does it? Well, perhaps those who stay fat or regain weight, either have a different system of values than mine (and do not value those benefits), or, perhaps, they are not acting rationally, or, perhaps, being hungry changes their value system. -- 223/175.9/180 Ig, I gotta say, I admire your grit. You continue after I have given up ;-) -- Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438 Poking kooks with a pointy stick. "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' ('I found it!'), but rather 'hmm....that's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov |
#162
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W. Baker wrote: : 25% or so won't get fat simply because that's their biology. I would : like to be one of them :-) For years, I thought I was that way as well. Then I started gaining weight. Now that I've been doing Atkins awhile, I understand why. Many of the meals I like to make for myself are LC. In fact, I would say I was naturally on induction 4 out of 7 days a week. To me, eating as much as I wanted meant I would have a whole Wok of steamed vegitables with alittle bit of meat. Certainly, there where times when I would eat a whole pizza to myself, but that was undoubtably balanced out by the rest of my food intake durring the month. What changed? I got married and have a kid. My wife cooks many tastey receipes that are not low carb, and I tried to have a "more balanced diet". Hense the weight gain. Now that I'm eating the foods I love and know how to prepare, I dropping back down again. Bill |
#163
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DocBill wrote:
W. Baker wrote: : 25% or so won't get fat simply because that's their biology. I would : like to be one of them :-) For years, I thought I was that way as well. Then I started gaining weight. Now that I've been doing Atkins awhile, I understand why. Many of the meals I like to make for myself are LC. In fact, I would say I was naturally on induction 4 out of 7 days a week. To me, eating as much as I wanted meant I would have a whole Wok of steamed vegitables with alittle bit of meat. Certainly, there where times when I would eat a whole pizza to myself, but that was undoubtably balanced out by the rest of my food intake durring the month. What changed? I got married and have a kid. My wife cooks many tastey receipes that are not low carb, and I tried to have a "more balanced diet". Hense the weight gain. Now that I'm eating the foods I love and know how to prepare, I dropping back down again. Carbohydrate intake does lead to a healthier appetite (greater hunger). Ime, fear of hunger is what leads to weight gain. At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?B2B851EFA (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 |
#164
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On Mon, 2 May 2005 07:58:36 -0700, "GaryG"
wrote: "Ignoramus760" wrote in message ... On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender wrote: Ignoramus760 wrote: I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits. Then what are they? As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular order) that apply to me: 1. Looking better. 2. Feeling more energetic 3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily 4. Not having acid reflux 5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations 6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff) 7. Sex is much better 8. Better and more stable mood After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of being slim still feels like a celebration. I'll add a couple of my own. 1) Feeling "light on my feet". If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of being light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup truck, and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more agile, more responsive, and faster. 2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80 miles, with over 8,500 feet of climbing). 3) Feeling stronger At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my bike for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I are going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing those things would be much more difficult if I was fat. I haven't been too overweight (the most overweight I've ever been is 20 lbs - not obese) so I can't truly say I'm speaking from personal experience but... from what I've read and heard, it seems like you guys are maybe missing the biggest benefit... Studies and experiments seem to prove, over and over again, that overweight people are strongly discriminated against... be it the child in the classroom, the large lady in the clothing store, or the hefty guy at the office. Slim people, in general, seem to enjoy a favortism that leads to better education, better jobs and career potential, better service in resteraunts and stores, and just general, all-around better treatment during most if not all social interractions. I'm not saying that such discrimination is right (obviously), but it is the way society is, and I think escaping that 'dark cloud' would be a huge benefit to many obese people. I guess maybe this was covered in points #1 (looking better) and #7 (sex is better) above? |
#165
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"Stacey Bender" wrote in message ... Ignoramus760 wrote: After some thinking, I think that you are right, and I am wrong, on two counts. One is what you mentioned, that at least some fat persons do not know what to do. Ok, give it 1% of fat people don't know what to eat. It's noise. Yes, these days even young children know what's fattening and what's not. Everybody knows they should eat less fat & carbs, more protein & veg, only this knowledge doesn't make it any easier to stay away from the donuts and chocolate bars. My mistake was forgetting that benefits of being slim are not just future benefits, they are also present benefits. Such as feeling good, looking good, being less sick etc. Dieting is not just about gaining future benefits at the cost of sacrifice in present. Some people get so much into this long-term health & longevity thing that they forget that, for the vast majority, the motivation to lose weight is for the present or the near future. These days there's adverts everywhere encouraging people to get rid of those extra pounds before the summer starts. Whether the products and/or plans advertised work or not is irrelevant, the fact is, people go for the short term benefits, like looking decent in a bikini or fitting into a nice dress. If everybody was thinking long-term there would be no market for crash diets or 15-day plans. It is a matter of sacrificing one short-term pleasure (eating certain foods) for another (looking good). As people are living in the present and are making constant decisions about what they value more, this is an illogical conclusion. People vote their preferences with their actions. We also need to establish the degree of weight loss. A very important point. The fatter you are the more important the health issues become. Even without serious health problems, obesity can be limiting, as in getting tired easily, being unable to perform certain activities, etc. On the other hand, losing those extra 10 or 20 lbs won't improve your health drammatically or extend your lifespan by many years, it will, however, make you look better in summer clothes: a short-term benefit. Obesity is being about 30 pounds overweight. If you move from 90 pounds to being 30 pounds overweight what are you daily short term benefits that make weight loss worth it? You'll feel a lot better shaking off those 60lbs of fat: you'll be more agile, have more energy, find it easier to play with your kids, be able to walk further, etc. Then what are the benefits of going from 30 pounds overweight to ideal weight on a daily basis? Probably more obvious in front of the mirror than at the doctor's office. And if these short term benefits are so clear then why don't the drive behaviour more consistantly? They do, millions of people around the world are trying to lose weight, aren't they? There's even a seasonal trend, with many people starting diets in January to shake off the Xmas pounds before the summer. |
#166
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Polar Light wrote:
And if these short term benefits are so clear then why don't the drive behaviour more consistantly? They do, millions of people around the world are trying to lose weight, aren't they? There's even a seasonal trend, with many people starting diets in January to shake off the Xmas pounds before the summer. Starting something is easy. Finishing something shows resolve and value. So millions of people are trying to lose weight yet consistently failing so i conclude the value of long term weight loss is not as great as the short term benefits from eating. |
#167
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Ignoramus29781 wrote:
Starting something is easy. Finishing something shows resolve and value. So millions of people are trying to lose weight yet consistently failing so i conclude the value of long term weight loss is not as great as the short term benefits from eating. Stacey, you assume rationality where there may be none. Actually I am assuming the reverse. I am assuming the pleasure of food is more important, for the majority of people, than any rationally based short term or long term benefits of weight loss. A recent fmri study shows clearly we have two ways of making decisions. One is short term based on emotion based in the limbic system. One is long term and rational based in the prefontal cortex. The emotional system is dopamine triggered, which is what food excites, and wins out over logic enough of the time. You seem to be an intelligent human being and I could give you a list of few books that explore the issue of irrationality and pitfalls in decision making. I am perplexed how you could read my posts this way. Cubit made an excellent point once, that hunger is an extremely strong influence on human mind and it can even change our priorities. That's not strong enough. Hunger is the most important factor in our survival. |
#168
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Ignoramus29781 wrote:
In other words, you assume that people always make a decision based on the value of one factor vs. another. (you say "pleasure... is more important"). People are not that simple so i wouldn't suggest anything is always. Given the nature of decision making machinery pleasure will win more times than not because the short and long term benefits of weight loss don't matter enough to most people. And what I am suggesting is that decision making regarding eating can be quite far from comparing merits of various options. It could be as simple as getting something out of the refrigerator without thinking. And what kind of other stuff happens without thinking? Do we create great art? Write songs? Go spontaneously chop wood? Why is it food? Now, this is quite different from the process that you described in the previous paragraph. Not in my mind, though I may not be communicating clearly. |
#169
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Ignoramus11139 wrote:
People are not that simple so i wouldn't suggest anything is always. Given the nature of decision making machinery pleasure will win more times than not because the short and long term benefits of weight loss don't matter enough to most people. That actually makes sense. Unlike everything else I say I guess. And what I am suggesting is that decision making regarding eating can be quite far from comparing merits of various options. It could be as simple as getting something out of the refrigerator without thinking. And what kind of other stuff happens without thinking? Do we create great art? Write songs? Go spontaneously chop wood? Why is it food? sex would be one such example. Another hardwired drive. We eat far more than we have sex. |
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