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#1
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Verbal attack on Low Carb'ng
Hi
I read an article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...arb_trend.aspx) that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back against low carbing..which is OK. But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I know it is for me anyway--it goes: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that organized the event." I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.It's not like we go out of the way to eat fat, but, I would rather think we have a handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not fat free. Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. I do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and the right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think tank" no less. Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does that make it 'bad'? Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time during which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the extremes to be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of foods out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control! Five carbs a a week increase is not easy to pull off. Probably should not be as touchy. FWIW. Joe ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart attack. He enjoyed food and I am glad he did. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#2
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My daily nutrient intake hasn't really changed regarding fat or protein.
It's only that I've replaced all the high-carb foods with LC choices. But I've only been an a "diet" once before in my life and it was so low-calorie (500/day) that I ended up looking like a concentration camp survivor due to muscle loss. I'm actually at a lower body weight right now than I was after that diet but I certainly look and feel a lot healthier. on Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:12:35 -0500, Papa Joe wrote: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.It's not like we go out of the way to eat fat, but, I would rather think we have a handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not fat free. Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. I do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. ----- Bev |
#3
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Papa Joe wrote:
:: Hi :: I read an :: article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca rb_trend.aspx) :: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back against :: low carbing..which is OK. :: :: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I know :: it is for me anyway--it goes: :: :: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it is a :: dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our culture?" railed :: K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways Preservation Trust, the :: Boston-based food issues think tank that organized the event." The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too. :: :: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are :: any more high fat than those who are not low carbing. That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight. Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight. They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight. In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous. It's not like we :: go out of the way to eat fat, Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides satiety. but, I would rather think we have a :: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not fat :: free. That works.... :: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet. I :: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk and :: the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad thing :: because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. :: :: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and :: the :: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out of :: control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think tank" :: no less. :: I don't know what you're saying there. :: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the :: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). :: :: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need :: so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad :: diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low carb--maybe the :: slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does that make it 'bad'? :: :: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time :: during :: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the extremes :: to :: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of :: foods :: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad :: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not to :: be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is hard to :: move from it as I do not have really good self control! Five carbs a :: a :: week increase is not easy to pull off. :: :: Probably should not be as touchy. :: :: FWIW. :: Joe :: :: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of :: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make them :: both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes and into :: cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' that it was :: not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ketchup on his :: hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him there)....he passed :: away at 80 with his first and only heart attack. He enjoyed food and :: I :: am glad he did. :: :: :: :: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet :: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the :: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total :: Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#4
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I find that I agree with Roger Zoul on much of this. He makes a very good
rebuttal. I would add that in addition to liking fat and seeking the satiety that fat can produce, one (like myself) may believe that high fat leads to good health in addition to loss of excess weight. If one cuts carbs sharply, and then researches and chooses a prudent protein level, fat is the only way to get the additional calories needed. [-unless you count alcohol as a calorie choice LOL] Cubit "Roger Zoul" wrote in message ... Papa Joe wrote: :: Hi :: I read an :: article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca rb_trend.aspx) :: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back against :: low carbing..which is OK. :: :: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I know :: it is for me anyway--it goes: :: :: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it is a :: dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our culture?" railed :: K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways Preservation Trust, the :: Boston-based food issues think tank that organized the event." The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too. :: :: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are :: any more high fat than those who are not low carbing. That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight. Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight. They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight. In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous. It's not like we :: go out of the way to eat fat, Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides satiety. but, I would rather think we have a :: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not fat :: free. That works.... :: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet. I :: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk and :: the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad thing :: because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. :: :: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and :: the :: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out of :: control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think tank" :: no less. :: I don't know what you're saying there. :: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the :: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). :: :: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need :: so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad :: diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low carb--maybe the :: slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does that make it 'bad'? :: :: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time :: during :: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the extremes :: to :: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of :: foods :: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad :: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not to :: be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is hard to :: move from it as I do not have really good self control! Five carbs a :: a :: week increase is not easy to pull off. :: :: Probably should not be as touchy. :: :: FWIW. :: Joe :: :: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of :: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make them :: both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes and into :: cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' that it was :: not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ketchup on his :: hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him there)....he passed :: away at 80 with his first and only heart attack. He enjoyed food and :: I :: am glad he did. :: :: :: :: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet :: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the :: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total :: Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#5
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Hi
I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, in reality could be, it is not necessarily so. Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need fat or more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ketosis gets the fat elsewhere. However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and still exist......at least I think so! I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb individual...granted for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me. I do not shun fat but do not look for it either. FWIW. Joe On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul" wrote: Papa Joe wrote: :: Hi :: I read an :: article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca rb_trend.aspx) :: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back against :: low carbing..which is OK. :: :: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I know :: it is for me anyway--it goes: :: :: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it is a :: dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our culture?" railed :: K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways Preservation Trust, the :: Boston-based food issues think tank that organized the event." The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too. :: :: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are :: any more high fat than those who are not low carbing. That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight. Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight. They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight. In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous. It's not like we :: go out of the way to eat fat, Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides satiety. but, I would rather think we have a :: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not fat :: free. That works.... :: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet. I :: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk and :: the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad thing :: because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. :: :: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and :: the :: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out of :: control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think tank" :: no less. :: I don't know what you're saying there. :: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the :: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). :: :: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which need :: so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of a fad :: diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low carb--maybe the :: slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does that make it 'bad'? :: :: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time :: during :: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the extremes :: to :: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of :: foods :: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad :: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not to :: be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is hard to :: move from it as I do not have really good self control! Five carbs a :: a :: week increase is not easy to pull off. :: :: Probably should not be as touchy. :: :: FWIW. :: Joe :: :: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of :: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make them :: both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes and into :: cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' that it was :: not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ketchup on his :: hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him there)....he passed :: away at 80 with his first and only heart attack. He enjoyed food and :: I :: am glad he did. :: :: :: :: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet :: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the :: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total :: Privacy via Encryption =--- ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#6
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Papa Joe wrote:
:: Hi :: I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, in :: reality could be, it is not necessarily so. :: :: Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need fat :: or :: more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ketosis :: gets the fat elsewhere. :: :: However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and still :: exist......at least I think so! :: :: I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb individual...granted :: for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me. :: I do not shun fat but do not look for it either. : What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of calories comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does not imply eating a lot of fat. If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your eating for a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies with no dressing, you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat. you don't have to hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it is fairly easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My sat fat intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories. : :: FWIW. :: Joe :: :: :: :: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul" :: wrote: :: ::: Papa Joe wrote: ::::: Hi ::::: I read an ::::: ::: article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca ::: rb_trend.aspx) ::::: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back ::::: against low carbing..which is OK. ::::: ::::: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I ::::: know it is for me anyway--it goes: ::::: ::::: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it ::::: is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our ::::: culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways ::::: Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that ::::: organized the event." ::: ::: ::: The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat ::: diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is ::: true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is ::: the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it ::: comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of ::: calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do ::: well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin ::: resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too. ::: ::: ::::: ::::: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat ::::: are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing. ::: ::: That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not ::: eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of ::: carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of ::: BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not ::: hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight. ::: ::: Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while ::: keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight. ::: They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially ::: if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country ::: were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight. ::: ::: In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a ::: high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous. ::: ::: It's not like we ::::: go out of the way to eat fat, ::: ::: Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides ::: satiety. ::: ::: but, I would rather think we have a ::::: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not ::::: fat free. ::: ::: That works.... ::: ::::: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. ::: ::: That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet. ::: ::: I ::::: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk ::::: and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad ::::: thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. ::::: ::::: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and ::::: the ::::: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out ::::: of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think ::::: tank" no less. ::::: ::: ::: I don't know what you're saying there. ::: ::::: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the ::::: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). ::::: ::::: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which ::::: need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of ::::: a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low ::::: carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does ::::: that make it 'bad'? ::::: ::::: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time ::::: during ::::: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the ::::: extremes to ::::: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of ::::: foods ::::: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad ::::: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not ::::: to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is ::::: hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control! ::::: Five carbs a a ::::: week increase is not easy to pull off. ::::: ::::: Probably should not be as touchy. ::::: ::::: FWIW. ::::: Joe ::::: ::::: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of ::::: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make ::::: them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes ::::: and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' ::::: that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ::::: ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him ::::: there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart ::::: attack. He enjoyed food and I ::::: am glad he did. ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure ::::: Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup ::::: Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast ::::: Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ::: :: :: :: :: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet :: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the :: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total :: Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#7
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On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: Papa Joe wrote: :: Hi :: I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, in :: reality could be, it is not necessarily so. :: :: Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need fat :: or :: more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ketosis :: gets the fat elsewhere. :: :: However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and still :: exist......at least I think so! :: :: I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb individual...granted :: for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me. :: I do not shun fat but do not look for it either. : What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of calories comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does not imply eating a lot of fat. If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your eating for a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies with no dressing, you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat. .........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies with no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk, Strawberries, and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods. If one is in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from the 'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with some unavoidable fat..... If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that may be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating habits. Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested, but that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and weight loss. He did not say High Fat. I like this ng. Joe you don't have to hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it is fairly easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My sat fat intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories. : :: FWIW. :: Joe :: :: :: :: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul" :: wrote: :: ::: Papa Joe wrote: ::::: Hi ::::: I read an ::::: ::: article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca ::: rb_trend.aspx) ::::: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back ::::: against low carbing..which is OK. ::::: ::::: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I ::::: know it is for me anyway--it goes: ::::: ::::: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it ::::: is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our ::::: culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways ::::: Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that ::::: organized the event." ::: ::: ::: The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat ::: diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is ::: true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is ::: the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it ::: comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of ::: calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do ::: well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin ::: resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too. ::: ::: ::::: ::::: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat ::::: are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing. ::: ::: That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not ::: eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of ::: carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of ::: BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not ::: hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight. ::: ::: Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while ::: keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight. ::: They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially ::: if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country ::: were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight. ::: ::: In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a ::: high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous. ::: ::: It's not like we ::::: go out of the way to eat fat, ::: ::: Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides ::: satiety. ::: ::: but, I would rather think we have a ::::: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not ::::: fat free. ::: ::: That works.... ::: ::::: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. ::: ::: That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet. ::: ::: I ::::: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk ::::: and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad ::::: thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. ::::: ::::: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and ::::: the ::::: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out ::::: of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think ::::: tank" no less. ::::: ::: ::: I don't know what you're saying there. ::: ::::: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the ::::: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). ::::: ::::: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which ::::: need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of ::::: a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low ::::: carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does ::::: that make it 'bad'? ::::: ::::: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time ::::: during ::::: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the ::::: extremes to ::::: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of ::::: foods ::::: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad ::::: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not ::::: to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is ::::: hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control! ::::: Five carbs a a ::::: week increase is not easy to pull off. ::::: ::::: Probably should not be as touchy. ::::: ::::: FWIW. ::::: Joe ::::: ::::: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of ::::: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make ::::: them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes ::::: and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' ::::: that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ::::: ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him ::::: there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart ::::: attack. He enjoyed food and I ::::: am glad he did. ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure ::::: Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup ::::: Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast ::::: Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ::: :: :: :: :: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet :: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the :: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total :: Privacy via Encryption =--- ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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Papa Joe wrote:
|| On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul" || wrote: || ||| Papa Joe wrote: ||||| Hi ||||| I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, ||||| in ||||| reality could be, it is not necessarily so. ||||| ||||| Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need ||||| fat ||||| or ||||| more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ||||| ketosis ||||| gets the fat elsewhere. ||||| ||||| However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and ||||| still exist......at least I think so! ||||| ||||| I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb ||||| individual...granted ||||| for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me. ||||| I do not shun fat but do not look for it either. |||| ||| What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of ||| calories ||| comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does ||| not imply eating a lot of fat. ||| ||| If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your ||| eating for ||| a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high ||| fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies ||| with no dressing, ||| you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat. || || ........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies with || no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk, Strawberries, || and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods. I'm sorry, but i don't understand what you mean. If one || is || in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from the || 'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with some || unavoidable fat..... ? Again, I don't follow you. On a typical LC, Atkins style diet, fat is not restricted, carbs are. So if you eat meat, cheese, eggs, cream, fatty fish, nuts, etc, then you're going to be eating a goodly amount of fat. Not neces sarily a lot of fat, because if your goal is weight loss then carb restriction will likely enable you to eat less food, and those lose weight. || || If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that may || be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating || habits. Okay. || || Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested, but || that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and weight || loss. He did not say High Fat. What is a sensible amount of fat and what is high fat? I gave you my definition of high fat. If you are getting enough protein in your diet, then a sensible fat intake may be upto the amount it takes to maintain your current weight. Fat, like carbs, aren't inherently evil. || || I like this ng. || Joe || you don't have to ||| hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it ||| is fairly ||| easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My ||| sat fat intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories. ||| ||| |||| ||||| FWIW. ||||| Joe ||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul" ||||| wrote: ||||| |||||| Papa Joe wrote: |||||||| Hi |||||||| I read an |||||||| |||||| ||| article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca |||||| rb_trend.aspx) |||||||| that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back |||||||| against low carbing..which is OK. |||||||| |||||||| But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably |||||||| incorrect--I |||||||| know it is for me anyway--it goes: |||||||| |||||||| "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact |||||||| it |||||||| is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our |||||||| culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways |||||||| Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank |||||||| that |||||||| organized the event." |||||| |||||| |||||| The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a |||||| high-fat |||||| diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is |||||| true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It |||||| is |||||| the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because |||||| it |||||| comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of |||||| calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do |||||| well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin |||||| resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too. |||||| |||||| |||||||| |||||||| I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I |||||||| eat |||||||| are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing. |||||| |||||| That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not |||||| eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of |||||| carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization |||||| of |||||| BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not |||||| hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight. |||||| |||||| Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake |||||| while |||||| keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight. |||||| They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before |||||| (especially |||||| if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country |||||| were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight. |||||| |||||| In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a |||||| high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous. |||||| |||||| It's not like we |||||||| go out of the way to eat fat, |||||| |||||| Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it |||||| provides |||||| satiety. |||||| |||||| but, I would rather think we have a |||||||| handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are |||||||| not |||||||| fat free. |||||| |||||| That works.... |||||| |||||||| Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. |||||| |||||| That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC |||||| diet. |||||| |||||| I |||||||| do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb |||||||| milk |||||||| and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad |||||||| thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. |||||||| |||||||| I think that some people are really stretching this food thing |||||||| and |||||||| the |||||||| right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit |||||||| out |||||||| of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues |||||||| think |||||||| tank" no less. |||||||| |||||| |||||| I don't know what you're saying there. |||||| |||||||| Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the |||||||| website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). |||||||| |||||||| Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which |||||||| need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part |||||||| of |||||||| a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low |||||||| carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' |||||||| bread--does |||||||| that make it 'bad'? |||||||| |||||||| Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time |||||||| during |||||||| which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the |||||||| extremes to |||||||| be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best |||||||| of |||||||| foods |||||||| out there, which may include low carb components, not to be |||||||| bad |||||||| thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it |||||||| not |||||||| to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is |||||||| hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control! |||||||| Five carbs a a |||||||| week increase is not easy to pull off. |||||||| |||||||| Probably should not be as touchy. |||||||| |||||||| FWIW. |||||||| Joe |||||||| |||||||| ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of |||||||| each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make |||||||| them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset |||||||| diabetes |||||||| and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' |||||||| that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked |||||||| ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him |||||||| there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart |||||||| attack. He enjoyed food and I |||||||| am glad he did. |||||||| |||||||| |||||||| |||||||| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure |||||||| Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup |||||||| Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast |||||||| Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| ||||| ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure ||||| Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup ||||| Service in the ||||| World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - ||||| Total ||||| Privacy via Encryption =--- ||| || || || || ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet || News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the || World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total || Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:34:11 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: Papa Joe wrote: :: Hi :: I am not sure if I agree that low carb means high fat. While it, in :: reality could be, it is not necessarily so. :: :: Probably one who is not in continuous ketosis would either need fat :: or :: more carbs to satisfy the energy requirements, one who is in ketosis :: gets the fat elsewhere. :: :: However, one could eat low carb foods and lay off the fat and still :: exist......at least I think so! :: :: I don't eat a high fat diet and I am a low carb individual...granted :: for only 4 months or so, but, still, it is a low carb diet for me. :: I do not shun fat but do not look for it either. : What we mean by a high fat diet is that the greatest precentage of calories comes from fat. If your goal is weight loss, that typically does not imply eating a lot of fat. If you want to know for sure, simply use fitday.com to track your eating for a month or so. Most foods on a LC diet other than veggies are high fat. So unless you're only eating lean meat, lean fish & veggies with no dressing, you're likely getting a lot of your calories from fat. .........you mean no/low fat from the lean meat, fish and veggies with no dressing.....eggs, LC cereal, no fat&Low carb milk, Strawberries, and the food you mention do not ring true to high fat foods. If one is in ketosis, I understood that the calories are mostly coming from the 'dissolved' fat.....and the under 25 carbs per day along with some unavoidable fat..... If one is a low carber , the goal may not be weight loss but that may be a by product of what is currently considered to be smart eating habits. Dr Atkins just advised that a sensible amount of fat be ingested, but that restricted carbs were the key to both better health and weight loss. He did not say High Fat. I like this ng. Joe you don't have to hunt it down, either, it just comes with the terrority. Also, it is fairly easy to control sat fat intake while eating a high fat LC diet. My sat fat intake rarely goes above 20% of overall calories. : :: FWIW. :: Joe :: :: :: :: On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:12:17 -0500, "Roger Zoul" :: wrote: :: ::: Papa Joe wrote: ::::: Hi ::::: I read an ::::: ::: article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...ck_amid_low-ca ::: rb_trend.aspx) ::::: that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back ::::: against low carbing..which is OK. ::::: ::::: But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I ::::: know it is for me anyway--it goes: ::::: ::::: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it ::::: is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our ::::: culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways ::::: Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that ::::: organized the event." ::: ::: ::: The statement is incorrect, obviously. LC typically is a high-fat ::: diet. That part is true. It is also a low-carb diet, so that is ::: true. However, for most, it is not a dangerous diet at all. It is ::: the so-called standard American diet that is dangerous, because it ::: comes lots of carbs and lots of fat, along with an excess of ::: calories. That combination is a killer. Also, for those who do ::: well on a low-carb diet (diabetics and people with insulin ::: resistance issues), a low-fat diet can be dangerous too. ::: ::: ::::: ::::: I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat ::::: are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing. ::: ::: That can be very true. Those who are not low carbing and not ::: eating low fat are probably getting plenty of fat and plenty of ::: carbs. You've removed the carbs, which result in normalization of ::: BG levels, resulting in reduced appetite. As are, you're not ::: hungry on fewer calories than previously and you can lose weight. ::: ::: Of course, some find that they can still increase fat intake while ::: keeping calories below that required to maintain their weight. ::: They may be eating a greater amount of fat than before (especially ::: if they were trained to be fat-aware like many in this country ::: were). Yet they can still improve health and lose weight. ::: ::: In the absence of excessive carbs and excessive calories, a ::: high-fat diet is very likely to not be dangerous. ::: ::: It's not like we ::::: go out of the way to eat fat, ::: ::: Some do....because they like fat and because they fill it provides ::: satiety. ::: ::: but, I would rather think we have a ::::: handle on what we eat and we can choose to eat foods that are not ::::: fat free. ::: ::: That works.... ::: ::::: Heck, we can also choose to eat fat free foods if we want to. ::: ::: That would be straight protein or high-fiber veggies on a LC diet. ::: ::: I ::::: do and it is fine with me. For example, I drink the low carb milk ::::: and the variety I like best is the low fat version....not a bad ::::: thing because it is low fat, I just happen to like it best. ::::: ::::: I think that some people are really stretching this food thing and ::::: the ::::: right of someone to choose to know what they are eating a bit out ::::: of control....and to be part of a "Boston-based food issues think ::::: tank" no less. ::::: ::: ::: I don't know what you're saying there. ::: ::::: Well, I just wanted to share the idea and article. (here is the ::::: website of the organization http://www.oldwayspt.org/ ). ::::: ::::: Sure, I don't eat ketchup, drink cranberry juice, both of which ::::: need so much sugar to be palatable, but does that make me part of ::::: a fad diet? So what if I eat bread that is classified low ::::: carb--maybe the slices are 50% thinner than 'regular' bread--does ::::: that make it 'bad'? ::::: ::::: Having been on low/almost no-fat for an extended period of time ::::: during ::::: which I lost quite a bit of arm and leg muscle, I find the ::::: extremes to ::::: be problems. However, blending what I consider to be the best of ::::: foods ::::: out there, which may include low carb components, not to be bad ::::: thing. I have been doing low carb since July 22nd and find it not ::::: to be a challenge to stay on induction at all. In fact, it is ::::: hard to move from it as I do not have really good self control! ::::: Five carbs a a ::::: week increase is not easy to pull off. ::::: ::::: Probably should not be as touchy. ::::: ::::: FWIW. ::::: Joe ::::: ::::: ps, I know about the cranberry and ketchup as I made a batch of ::::: each--once--and was so amazed at how much sugar it took to make ::::: them both...I told .my dad, who was into maturity onset diabetes ::::: and into cranberry juice, because it was 'good for the kidneys' ::::: that it was not so good for the diabetes....He also liked ::::: ketchup on his hamburgers and french fries(couldn't blame him ::::: there)....he passed away at 80 with his first and only heart ::::: attack. He enjoyed food and I ::::: am glad he did. ::::: ::::: ::::: ::::: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure ::::: Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup ::::: Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast ::::: Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ::: :: :: :: :: ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet :: News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the :: World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total :: Privacy via Encryption =--- ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#10
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"Papa Joe" wrote in message ... Hi I read an article(http://www.xposed.com/health/nutriti...arb_trend.aspx) that spoke about pasta and how it(companies) is fighting back against low carbing..which is OK. But, I find one quote to be disturbing and probably incorrect--I know it is for me anyway--it goes: "How is it that it can be called a low-carb diet when in fact it is a dangerous high-fat diet? How can that happen in our culture?" railed K. Dun Gifford, president of the Oldways Preservation Trust, the Boston-based food issues think tank that organized the event." I don't know about others, but I do not find that the foods I eat are any more high fat than those who are not low carbing.It's not like we go out of the way to eat fat, .... I am following South Beach, which emphasizes low-fat (not a true low-carb diet, of course, because they stress "good carbs not bad carbs"). I also have eliminated all bread, potatoes, rice, and pasta. In my case, that is *much* lower-carb than in my pre-diabetic/pre-diet days. A couple of weeks ago, I began using FitDay to evaluate my nutritional intake. I'm not sure how accurate some of their values are, but I was truly startled to find that my carbs and fat are now basically equal but I have low protein intake! I have been eating lots and lots of veggies, quite a few fresh fruit, and some lean meat -- but I obviously haven't been getting as much meat as I thought. This leads me to think that "high fat" can be misleading. For example, I see from looking at FitDay that much of my fat comes from eating nuts and cheese (low-fat when possible, but I also get some "regular" cheese). That's very different from saturated fats (which I try to limit) or trans-fats (which I try to avoid completely). I know that many low-carbers are not concerned about the amount of fat, but I am still skeptical about that. MaryL |
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