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  #51  
Old December 17th, 2003, 03:55 PM
Donovan Rebbechi
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Default Low carb diets

In article , Chupacabra wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:33:00 GMT, Doug Freese
wrote:

Lyle McDonald wrote:
this depends on a host of factors such as

duration/intensity
length of adaptation


Quite true.


your argument is simplistic at best. You're using fairly active
individuals to your average obese person.


Of course I am because exercise MUST be used in tandem with food to
control weight. Those that try to control their weight by food alone
have at best short term results.


Bull****. Those that try to control their weight by food alone just
fine if they have any willpower.


"If they have any willpower" is the bit that gets most of them (-;

The ideal weight loss/maintenance program shouldn't demand enormous amounts
of willpower.

It's still a calorie game. If you walk 30 minutes and average 15 mph
you are burning off roughly 200 calories.


That walker must have incredibly long legs.


I think he meant 15 minutes per mile. If you can hold 15mph for 4 minutes,
you're a 4-minute miler.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
  #52  
Old December 17th, 2003, 03:57 PM
Donovan Rebbechi
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Default Low carb diets

In article , rosie wrote:

If you walk 30 minutes and average 15 mph



walking?


I think he meant 15 minutes per mile or 4 mph


--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
  #53  
Old December 17th, 2003, 03:57 PM
DRS
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Default Low carb diets

The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote in message

Anglea Woollcombe wrote:

I have the atkins book and was thinking about giving it a try. I
have read it and he does have some good ideas and points in it.
Don't let any one who has been on the diet or read his book tell u
that it no good there a support gorup u can check out to more advice
here it is alt.support.diet. low-carb alot of the people there are
on the diet and have lost alot of weight and can give u advice on
it. hope this helps


this is *super* advice coming from someone who couldn't manage to
follow atkins for more than a day or two and who cried like a baby
when the asdl-c meanyheads told her to clean up her spelling.


And she top-posts.

--

"Posting at the top because that's where the cursor happened to be is like
****ting in your pants because that's where your asshole happened to be."
Andreas Prilop


  #54  
Old December 17th, 2003, 04:03 PM
Chupacabra
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Default Low carb diets

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:55:19 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
wrote:

In article , Chupacabra wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:33:00 GMT, Doug Freese
wrote:

Lyle McDonald wrote:
this depends on a host of factors such as

duration/intensity
length of adaptation

Quite true.


your argument is simplistic at best. You're using fairly active
individuals to your average obese person.

Of course I am because exercise MUST be used in tandem with food to
control weight. Those that try to control their weight by food alone
have at best short term results.


Bull****. Those that try to control their weight by food alone just
fine if they have any willpower.


"If they have any willpower" is the bit that gets most of them (-;

The ideal weight loss/maintenance program shouldn't demand enormous amounts
of willpower.


Understood, but nor does it demand exercise per se

And IMO it takes just as much willpower for most people to stick to a
decent exercise regimen ("It's cold! It's raining! I'm tired! I'm
busy!" et cetera ad infinitum) than it does to make a few dietary
changes.

Personally I love working out and hate dieting so it's the damned
cookies that always get to me. Curse their tempting sweetness.

It's still a calorie game. If you walk 30 minutes and average 15 mph
you are burning off roughly 200 calories.


That walker must have incredibly long legs.


I think he meant 15 minutes per mile. If you can hold 15mph for 4 minutes,
you're a 4-minute miler.


Again, understood, but I would hate to pass up an opportunity to make
a snarky comment. Just wouldn't do!

Cheers,


  #55  
Old December 17th, 2003, 04:10 PM
Lee Michaels
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Default Low carb diets


"rosie" caght this one

If you walk 30 minutes and average 15 mph



walking?


Only if you have very, very long legs!!




  #56  
Old December 17th, 2003, 04:18 PM
jmk
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Default Low carb diets



On 12/17/2003 9:55 AM, Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

"If they have any willpower" is the bit that gets most of them (-;

The ideal weight loss/maintenance program shouldn't demand enormous amounts
of willpower.


I don't really agree that it is a willpower issue. I think it's more of
a paying attention issue. No matter what plan you are following, you
need to pay attention to what you are eating and how much you eat
(portion control). Paying attention might mean keeping track of how
many carbohydrate grams that you consume or calories or whatever your
plan calls for. I think that paying attention is not willpower, it's
more habit.
--
jmk in NC

  #57  
Old December 17th, 2003, 04:20 PM
The Queen of Cans and Jars
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Default Low carb diets

DRS wrote:

The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote in message

Anglea Woollcombe wrote:

I have the atkins book and was thinking about giving it a try. I
have read it and he does have some good ideas and points in it.
Don't let any one who has been on the diet or read his book tell u
that it no good there a support gorup u can check out to more advice
here it is alt.support.diet. low-carb alot of the people there are
on the diet and have lost alot of weight and can give u advice on
it. hope this helps


this is *super* advice coming from someone who couldn't manage to
follow atkins for more than a day or two and who cried like a baby
when the asdl-c meanyheads told her to clean up her spelling.


And she top-posts.


of course she does! she's a real peach.
  #58  
Old December 17th, 2003, 04:29 PM
tcomeau
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Default Low carb diets

(gman99) wrote in message ...

Low carb / low fat....doesn't matter. The ONLY way to lose / maintaina
/ gain weoght is to create a calorie deficit / balance / surplus !!!!


Sure, why not. This methodology only fails 95 or more percent of the
time.


How so ?? Are you saying there is ANOTHER way to do the above
(non-surgical) ??

If you want to lose weight the probable best way is to do a little more
and eat a little less...PERIOD. There's nothing magical about ANY diet
plan, just remember there's nothing temporary about it. Losing weight
and maintaining a lower weight typically requires a LIFESTYLE
change....FOR LIFE !!


Yeah, and starving yourself can easily become a lifestyle, sure.


Who said anything about starving ?? That's quite an imagination...


****
starvation

n 1: a state of extreme hunger resulting from lack of essential
nutrients over a prolonged period [syn: famishment] 2: the act of
starving; "they were charged with the starvation of children in their
care" [syn: starving]
*****

If one requires X number of calories per day and one deliberately
restricts ones consumption to less than this amount then one is
consuming less nutrients and energy than is required by the body. That
is restricting food, restricting required nutrition thus it is
essentially trying to *starve* the fat off. It may not be an extreme
level of starvation but it is starvation nonetheless.

And, oh yeah, it doesn't work long term in more than 95% of cases.

The low-carb diet works specifically by not causing hunger and
starvation, but by 1) satiating and 2) keeping the body out of a
fat-storage mode and keeping it in a fat-using mode ie. mild ketosis.
This is taking advantage of the bodies natural processes and avoiding
the carb induced insulin spikes that forces the body into storing fat.
It isn't rocket science.

And, oh yeah, it works.

TC
  #59  
Old December 17th, 2003, 04:38 PM
Lyle McDonald
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Default Low carb diets

Doug Freese wrote:


your argument is simplistic at best. You're using fairly active
individuals to your average obese person.


Of course I am because exercise MUST be used in tandem with food to
control weight.


Err, no.
People lose weight and maintain that loss without exercise all the time.

Exercise is beneficial but it is by no means REQUIRED.

In any event, you managed to avoid my question in the first place:

Let's say someone is using brisk walking as their primary exercise (not uncommon).

HOw many carbs do they NEED to sustain that?

True they're active but they did this knowing they needed take some
action which is the first step. This in not unlike AA where you must
admit you are an alcoholic before any corrective action can happen.
When people like tcomeau suggests stagnation and Atkins, I find it
very poor if not dangerous advice. It's a form of denial.


tcomeau is a moron.
You're not debating with him, yo'ure debating with me. So spare me the non-sequiturs.

Forget about runners (or athletes of any color), what about the average
person who may be exercising not at all or only minimal amounts (either
because they are unwilling, or because they are too heavy)?


It's impossible to maintain weight without exercise


Bull****.

How many carbs do they need on a daily basis to sustain that?


It's still a calorie game. If you walk 30 minutes and average 15 mph
you are burning off roughly 200 calories. Now 200 is better than
zero but a cookie or two and you have broke even or possibly lost
ground. One needs to work up to 45 or an hour a day AND take some
necessary steps to eliminate some calories. I'm not suggesting
elimination of fat but to cut it DOWN to maybe 30%. If your also
health conscious and not just weight conscious then can the bad
fats. Simple carbs is a good place to start, with bad fat a good
second choice.


Are you ever going to answer my actual question?
How many carbs does someone NEED (i.e. in a biological/physiological
sense) to support the above type of training volume/intensity.

It's not so much a diet or exercise change but a lifestyle change
that includes diet and exercise. Once you adapt to an active
lifestyle you can then play with carb/pro/fat ratio. Even as an
exerciser one still has to be careful of what they eat. I can
exercise enough to stay thin and live on pure simple carbs. This
makes me thin but not necessarily healthy.


blah, blah, blah.
Thanks for the essay, now answer my actual question.

Lyle
  #60  
Old December 17th, 2003, 04:53 PM
Adam Fahy
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Default Low carb diets

tcomeau wrote:

If one requires X number of calories per day and one deliberately
restricts ones consumption to less than this amount then one is
consuming less nutrients and energy than is required by the body.


If one requires X calories per day /for what/? For optimal function?
For minimal [healthy] function? To maintain weight? These will all be
at different points.


-Adam
 




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