Doug here - anybody still around from a year or two ago?

Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of 1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

doug

doug it almost sounds as if you are self sabatoging for some reason, can't
help with the why, just what it looks like from the outside, I sure hope you
get it going, you are a good person, and i would like to have dinner with
you again some day, Lee
"douglerner" wrote in message
...
Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of 1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

doug

"douglerner" wrote in message
...
Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write
the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than
you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to
you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My
goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of
1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days
and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward
to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than
me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was
way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to
lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched
to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels
returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I
lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He
immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of
the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low
calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time
work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

doug


The angiogram isn't bad. It was kind of interesting actually, since I
could see a monitor showing the images (at least when the xray thing
wasn't in front of my face) and could see my heart and the puffs of
dye. I probably could have seen the blockages if I knew what to look
for.

On the other hand, they don't do those for no reason, since they do
have some risk.

The american heart association recommends a diet with relatively low
fat, low saturated fat, whole grains, and limited red meat. (low salt
and sugar of course).

del

See below...

"douglerner" wrote in message
...
Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of 1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

I don't know, maybe it's the way you worded things, or the food you ate, I
don't remember the details of the menus, just remember thinking "god, I
would never be able to live like this".

Different things work for different people, but that's the impression I've
always gotten.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I've been there, everybody has I think.

For "myself" that's when I trot out the tools for living.

Set up a goal, a storyboard... what do I want and when? What are the steps
that I need to take to make it work. I plan everything to a T, and get on
with it. If the plan falls appart, I start again.. sometimes it takes a few
tries ;op

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

Fear is a good starter, but not a good motivation long term. What else do
you get out of being at your healthy weight?


But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

It's not easy to figure out, sometimes I feel that it's what trips us up,
running out of ideas.

doug




You know what is my motivation just now? I just moved back to San Francisco
within reach of all those marvelous produce markets and asian grocery
stores. I'm trying a new veggie every week. That gets me interested...
Whatever work!

I don't have all the answers obviously, I don't even have many... but you
do. Stop looking behind you and look ahead.

You're out of control now, what's the first step you can take to get on
track? Once that step is on, find the next one. One step at a time!!

Will~

The american heart association recommends a diet with relatively low
fat, low saturated fat, whole grains, and limited red meat. *(low salt
and sugar of course).


I just published a blog entry about this at
http://lerner.net/blog/2009/04/05/at...-heart-health/

It's an interesting article, and has responses from the Atkins people
and Ornish.

Basic conclusion:

"People who follow a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet for weight
maintenance, even for as little as a month, may worsen risk factors
for heart disease compared to two other popular diets, a newly
published study shows."

Note that the article is particularly about weight maintenance rather
than weight loss.

doug

Make the commitment that this is going to be your lifestyle not just a diet.
It will be something you have to do just like brushing your teeth and going
to work.



"douglerner" wrote in message
...
Yes, all good advice. And I appreciate the time you took to write the
messages - and the fact that you remember my menus and messages from
the past! And I agree with your suggestion to keep journaling no
matter what.

One thing I don't understand, and have a different impression than you
have, is that my diet seemed somehow unsatisfying and deprived to you.

While I was on my diet and losing weight, I think I can honestly say
that I never felt deprived or unsatisfied. I always made sure there
were "bonus calories" left over so if I felt like snacking more on a
particular day I could so without actually going off my diet. My goal
was the average of 1800 calories per day, not a rigorous limit of 1800
calories a day that I could never exceed.

And that's what I don't understand. Why I could go about 700 days and
drop 100 lb and never feel deprived or tempted to go off my diet and
then let it all fall apart.

It starts insidiously slow and creeps up on you. First I keep
journaling but rationalizing to myself that certain foods have less
calories than than really do - clearly underestimating my intake.

Then I start saying, well as long as I can stay under 90 kg I'll be
happy, so I don't have to keep track quite as much.

Then I say, well at least I'm still under 100 kg, and that's what's
really important.

Eventually the journaling notebooks gather dust and I look forward to
seeing what kind of deep-fried things they have in the home-made
corner of the supermarket today.

It's like driving by a car wreck in slow motion. You can see it
happening in detail, but for some reason the switch you turned on to
get yourself started has gotten turned off. That's the situation I'm
in now.

I think last time I started was because of a double health scare.
First, my oldest friend in Japan - who was 5 years younger than me! -
diet of heart failure. Then the doctor told me my blood sugar was way
up.

Then, also, I tried Atkins at first and my blood sugar came way down
(you have to grant Atkins that much). But I couldn't continue to lose
weight on it, and even started regaining, which is when I switched to
my calorie control plan, mirroring WW.

Truth be told, even with the extra carbs on my low-calorie plan, I
ended up with all the same benefits of Atkins as I continued to lose
weight: my blood sugar continued to drop, cholesterol levels returned
to normal range, etc. Plus I have detailed graphs showing that I lost
weight at a more regular pace with low-calorie than with Atkins.

I recently felt short of breath and visited my doctor. He immediately
scheduled a bunch of tests for me at the university hospital he is
affiliated with and I had a bunch of tests.

The good news is that even at my current weight, most things are
normal: the ultrasound shows normal heart size and proper valve
function, the stress test showed me returned to base level normally,
my blood pressure is normal, they have this test for hardening of the
arteries and I am on the good side of the normal range for a 52 year
old male. But my blood sugar is way up again, and my cholesterol is
over 200 now too. Plus they saw something in the EKG that makes them
want to do a heart catheter test of some kind, which is what I'm
checking into the hospital for. I don't even want to think about it.
shudder

I am 100% positive that the food I get at the hospital will not be
based on Atkins. I'm sure it will be close to a WW/low calorie/low
fat kind of diet.

Maybe this latest health scare will be the impetus I need to get
started again for real.

But:

What can I do differently than I did last time to make this time work
forever?

That's what I still don't have a grasp of.

doug

On Apr 5, 8:46*pm, "Dee Flint" wrote:
Make the commitment that this is going to be your lifestyle not just a diet.
It will be something you have to do just like brushing your teeth and going
to work.

That's what I thought I did this last time...

doug