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![]() http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...g-alcohol?lite "In a last ditch effort to lose weight, roughly 113,000 people subject themselves to bariatric surgeries such as stomach banding and gastric bypass every year in the United States. But some of those patients may be trading pounds for an alcohol problem, according to a new study presented today at the annual meeting of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery in San Diego, and published by the Journal of the American Medical Association." -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
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Dogman wrote:
http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...g-alcohol?lite "In a last ditch effort to lose weight, roughly 113,000 people subject themselves to bariatric surgeries such as stomach banding and gastric bypass every year in the United States. But some of those patients may be trading pounds for an alcohol problem, according to a new study presented today at the annual meeting of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery in San Diego, and published by the Journal of the American Medical Association." I wonder at causation versus correlation. Sugar and alcohol are both addictive. Ho wmany of these people, freed from sugar addiction, moved on to the next addiction in line. As such I do not consider this damning news. |
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:19:27 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote: Dogman wrote: http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...g-alcohol?lite "In a last ditch effort to lose weight, roughly 113,000 people subject themselves to bariatric surgeries such as stomach banding and gastric bypass every year in the United States. But some of those patients may be trading pounds for an alcohol problem, according to a new study presented today at the annual meeting of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery in San Diego, and published by the Journal of the American Medical Association." I wonder at causation versus correlation. Sugar and alcohol are both addictive. Ho wmany of these people, freed from sugar addiction, moved on to the next addiction in line. As such I do not consider this damning news. Damning? No. Worrisome? Yes. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
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On Jun 18, 4:19*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Dogman wrote: http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ariatric-surge... "In a last ditch effort to lose weight, roughly 113,000 people subject themselves to bariatric surgeries such as stomach banding and gastric bypass every year in the United States. But some of those patients may be trading pounds for an alcohol problem, according to a new study presented today at the annual meeting of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery in San Diego, and published by the Journal of the American Medical Association." I wonder at causation versus correlation. *Sugar and alcohol are both addictive. *Ho wmany of these people, freed from sugar addiction, moved on to the next addiction in line. *As such I do not consider this damning news. According to the report, the increase is only seen in the one type of surgery: "Almost the entire increase in AUD among bariatric surgery patients occurred in those receiving a type called Roux-en-Y gastric bypass. The biological mechanism at work has not yet been firmly established, but it likely rests in the differences between surgeries. In the Roux- en-Y procedure, doctors create a stomach pouch out of a small portion of the stomach and attach it directly to the small intestine." So it doesn't seem likely that it's due to just switching one addiction for another or you'd see it in all types. Curiously, this is also the type of surgery where the permanent reversal in diabetes occurs that is the focus of current research. |
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On Jun 18, 5:11*pm, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:19:27 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger wrote: Dogman wrote: http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ariatric-surge.... "In a last ditch effort to lose weight, roughly 113,000 people subject themselves to bariatric surgeries such as stomach banding and gastric bypass every year in the United States. But some of those patients may be trading pounds for an alcohol problem, according to a new study presented today at the annual meeting of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery in San Diego, and published by the Journal of the American Medical Association." I wonder at causation versus correlation. *Sugar and alcohol are both addictive. *Ho wmany of these people, freed from sugar addiction, moved on to the next addiction in line. *As such I do not consider this damning news. Damning? No. Worrisome? Yes. -- Dogman See, here's another good example of how you think and how the conclusion comes before any facts. In this case, you post about a study where a minor negative effect is seen in bariatric surgery patients, ie they appear to have an increased risk of having problems with alcohol. You don't make any conclusion regarding the cause, not even speculation to what might be the cause. Yet in another thread, when the discussion was the fact that these bariatric patients also have an immediate and permanent reversal of diabetes, why you KNEW for a fact that it was due to LC. So, a huge positive effect and according to you it's a fact it MUST be due to LC and nothing else. That despite the fact that researchers are just beginnning to try to figure out what is really going on. No need, they should just ask you, because you say it has to be due to LC. Despite zero evidence that these bariatric patients are even on a LC diet 1, 2, 10 years AFTER surgery, when the diabetes reversal continues. Yet, when a minor, possible negative effect is shown in one study, you don't attribute THAT to LC. And that is because you already have a totally preconceived way of looking at things and the facts and research be damned. Anything that agrees with your preconceived notions gets recorded. And other studies, mountains of evidence, or in this case, the fact that the patients are NOT even on LC, well that gets discarded. And that is a very dangerous way of looking at things. In the long run, it leads to very bad results. Just ask the families of all your dead AIDS denialist friends who ame to the faulty conclusion that HIV isn't the cause of AIDS and that HIV is harmless. They refused AIDS drugs and now they are DEAD. |
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On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 12:37:58 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ariatric-surge... "In a last ditch effort to lose weight, roughly 113,000 people subject themselves to bariatric surgeries such as stomach banding and gastric bypass every year in the United States. But some of those patients may be trading pounds for an alcohol problem, according to a new study presented today at the annual meeting of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery in San Diego, and published by the Journal of the American Medical Association." I wonder at causation versus correlation. *Sugar and alcohol are both addictive. *Ho wmany of these people, freed from sugar addiction, moved on to the next addiction in line. *As such I do not consider this damning news. Damning? No. Worrisome? Yes. See, here's another good example of how you think and how the conclusion comes before any facts. In this case, you post about a study where a minor negative effect is seen in bariatric surgery patients, ie they appear to have an increased risk of having problems with alcohol. That's not a minor problem! You don't make any conclusion regarding the cause, not even speculation to what might be the cause. Are you kidding me? I have to arrive at a conclusion, or speculate, as to what might be the cause? Where is that law written? What freakin' planet are you from, asshole? Yet in another thread, when the discussion was the fact that these bariatric patients also have an immediate and permanent reversal of diabetes, why you KNEW for a fact that it was due to LC. Back to the straw men again? What a douche. First, there is no "fact" that I'm aware of that bariatric bypass patients achieve an immediate and permanent reversal of diabetes in all patients (such as you are implying here). I did posit that LC could do the same thing (and it can) in *many* people with diabetes. Or are you denying that, Mr. Denialist? So, a huge positive effect and according to you it's a fact it MUST be due to LC and nothing else. Again, that's not what I said. You just can't read for comprehension, can you? You talked of a "mysterious effect" that you couldn't explain, and I said it could be due to them eating fewer carbs. See the difference, asshole? That despite the fact that researchers are just beginnning to try to figure out what is really going on. Well, once they figure it out, I'm free to exercise my opinion of what's going on. In fact, even after they figure it out, I'm still free to exercise my opinion, no matter how many assholes like you I happen to encounter while doing so. Yet, when a minor, possible negative effect is shown in one study, you don't attribute THAT to LC. And how exactly would a low carb diet be attributed to developing a problem with alcohol? And the next time you run into an alcoholic, be sure to tell him that his problem is only a "minor" one, and to just get on with his life. What an asshole! Just ask the families of all your dead AIDS denialist friends Sure. Right after you ask the families of all those who have been killed by AIDS drugs, long-term abuse of IV and other recreational drugs, inhaling poippers, drinking heavily, suffering multiple STDs, taking antibiotics prophylactically, eating poorly, getting no sleep, practicing poor hygiene, etc., eventually destroying their immune systems, why/how they came to the faulty conclusion that this kind of lifestyle was conducive to living a long and healthy life, and why they put their faith in Drug Pushers and AIDS, Inc. Asshole. -- Dogman "I have approximate answers and possible beliefs in different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything" - Richard Feynman |
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