Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution alternative

Hello
My aunt is diabetic and I'm looking for an alternative to the
allopathic diet her endocrinologist prescribed to her, which is
basically eat all the **** you want as long as you take insulin
injection.

A lower carb approach is what I want to propose to her but I'm not
still sure what kind of diet
Many on the LC quarters praise Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and I
wonder if any diabetic here has success with this diet.

Just like I didn't trust the usda high carb gurus I don't trust low
carb gurus for the sake of it and I'm perplexed about Dr. Bernstein
diet because of his claims (often wrong imo) that lead to a diet which
is basically just animal food and may not be that healthy for everyone.

I'm actually afraid that Dr Bernstein diet could worsen the condition
Dr Bernstein claims that the exclusion of all foods that contain quite
a few carbs would decrease the level of insulin.
Then why beef raises insulin more than rice?
It should be known so far that the author of the Glycemic Index
realized the GI was not a good predictor of insulin output so he
studied indeed the effect of each food on insulin levels and contrary
to the belief of many many animal foods with a low carb content or no
carb content raised insulin levels more than many high carb foods.
If that is true clearly substituting all carbs food with meat and other
animal foods may worsen the condition instead of improving it.
Holt SA et al Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66:1264-76

Dr Bernstein says that all low glycemic carb foods will raise
postprandial glycemia in all diabetics and we just need to check it
with a glucometer but not only this is not true for everyone as I know
diabetics who can eat brown rice without getting postprandial sugar
spikes but Dr Bernsteain makes the mistake of checking the effects of
isolated foods but it's well known that carbs consumed with protein and
some fat keep sugar level steady and prevent sugar spike.
If you are diabetics and have a glucometer just check the effect of
eating 50 grams of pearled barley alone and 50 grams of pearled barley
and 50 grams of top sirloin plus a tbs of extra virgin oil or melted
butter.

Last but not least the most important method to prevent insulin and
sugar spikes has to do with distribution rather than amount of carbs or
protein. Eating 6 to 9 small meals every three hours instead of a
breakfast, lunch and dinner lowers postprandial lipemia and glycemia
and prevents sugar roller coaster.

Eating timing and carb timing is more important than banning this or
that macronutrient from the diet and as a matter of fact the most
important factor in keeping diabetes and sugar levels under control is
not diet but exercise and physical activity. When the body exercises
and requires fuel it becomes more sensitive to glucose the amount of
glucose receptors in the cells increase and insulin is more effective.
Another important test to make. Try to eat fruit alone on a normal day
and check your blood sugar levels then try to eat fruit alone after
your have exercised and check your blood sugar levels.
Am J Clin Nutr 1970;23:1059-68/ N Engl J Med 1989;321:929-34/
Am J Clin Nutr 1993;57:446-51/
Am J Clin Nutr 1992;55:664-9/ Int J Obesity 1998;22:105-12/

You may say: why don't you shut up and just tell all of this to your
aunt?
Well, my aunt is very skeptic and to just give her a serious book on
keeping diabetes under control through diet and exercise as a present
would be the only way to convince her to give it a try.
I don't know any low carb but not almost 0 carbs or ketogenic book that
deal with diabetes.
I would rather suggest to my uncle a moderate/low carb diet instead of
Dr Bernstein's because of the reasons above, I'm really afraid
Bernstein diet would worsen his condition and I do know there are
testimonials on the book of people who had success but there are many
success testimonial on Pritikin book that suggests 10% fat and 10%
protein

My questions a do you know a diabetes solution low carb alternative
that deals more with actual insulin output, effect of exercise and
balanced small meals rather than Dr Bernstein diet?
If not, what do you think about my doubts of Dr Bernstein dietary
guideline?
Did you have success with that diet?
Is there anyone who has diebetes and whose health worsened by following
his diet?

Thanks
David

I think Bernstein does the best job of explaining diabetes and
recommend his book highly. That being said, I don't follow his diet.
I eat in the range of 40-50 g carb, 100 g protein.day.

I agree with the idea to eat to your meter, generally. There's too
much variation in what works amongst diabetics.

I have much less understanding of insulin-dependent diabetes though -
he does cover it in detail (it's what he ahs afetr all), but I didn't
remember those details as much since it didn't apply to me. Seems like
there was lots of info on how various insulins work and such.

IMO, the thing to do with Bernstein is to read it, understand the way
food, meds, insulins and supplements and such work, and build your own
plan for handling your diabetes.

It's not a thing about just doing what he says slavishly, but
understanding how diabetes works and making your choices from there.

"Davide" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello
My aunt is diabetic and I'm looking for an alternative to the
allopathic diet her endocrinologist prescribed to her, which is
basically eat all the **** you want as long as you take insulin
injection.

David, come over to alt.support.diabetes (or better yet, get your aunt over
there) for diet advice. You may want to set your newsreader to ignore any
crossposted threads - we've been invaded by religious nuts at the moment.

Eating and juggling insulin is an art form, and needs advice from people who
are doing it.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.4/6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/74/72Kg

Davide wrote:
:: Hello
:: My aunt is diabetic and I'm looking for an alternative to the
:: allopathic diet her endocrinologist prescribed to her, which is
:: basically eat all the **** you want as long as you take insulin
:: injection.
::

Why do you say it's your uncle at the end of this letter?

:: A lower carb approach is what I want to propose to her but I'm not
:: still sure what kind of diet
:: Many on the LC quarters praise Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and I
:: wonder if any diabetic here has success with this diet.

I've not used his specific diet as I find low carb and exercise works great.

::
:: Just like I didn't trust the usda high carb gurus I don't trust low
:: carb gurus for the sake of it and I'm perplexed about Dr. Bernstein
:: diet because of his claims (often wrong imo) that lead to a diet
:: which is basically just animal food and may not be that healthy for
:: everyone.

Not sure. It's not just animal food. Where'd you get such a notion?

::
:: I'm actually afraid that Dr Bernstein diet could worsen the condition
:: Dr Bernstein claims that the exclusion of all foods that contain
:: quite a few carbs would decrease the level of insulin.

Are you referring to injected insulin or insulin need to balance out high
blood glucose levels?

:: Then why beef raises insulin more than rice?

Curious that you're so worried about insulin rather than blood glocose
levels. Do you have a site for this?

:: It should be known so far that the author of the Glycemic Index
:: realized the GI was not a good predictor of insulin output so he
:: studied indeed the effect of each food on insulin levels and contrary
:: to the belief of many many animal foods with a low carb content or no
:: carb content raised insulin levels more than many high carb foods.
:: If that is true clearly substituting all carbs food with meat and
:: other animal foods may worsen the condition instead of improving it.
:: Holt SA et al Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66:1264-76

This is a curious paragraph. I've been following a LC woe for almost 5
years and have not seen any worsening of my T2 condition. I'd be suspicious
of a lay person trying to interpret research without adequate understanding
and background.

::
:: Dr Bernstein says that all low glycemic carb foods will raise
:: postprandial glycemia in all diabetics and we just need to check it
:: with a glucometer but not only this is not true for everyone as I
:: know diabetics who can eat brown rice without getting postprandial
:: sugar spikes but Dr Bernsteain makes the mistake of checking the
:: effects of isolated foods but it's well known that carbs consumed
:: with protein and some fat keep sugar level steady and prevent sugar
:: spike.

It's a YMMV kind of thing, so he describes a type of diet that will make ALL
diabetics have NORMAL BGs levels, while not accountnig for those who can
tolerate higher carb levels. It's not a mistake to check foods in isolation
because one can't check all possible combinations of foods. So knowing
which foods likely cause problems and can potentially raise BGs is
important - especially if you don't want to test, test, test your entire
life.

:: If you are diabetics and have a glucometer just check the effect of
:: eating 50 grams of pearled barley alone and 50 grams of pearled
:: barley and 50 grams of top sirloin plus a tbs of extra virgin oil or
:: melted butter.

This is well understood, even by Bernstein.

::
:: Last but not least the most important method to prevent insulin and
:: sugar spikes has to do with distribution rather than amount of carbs
:: or protein. Eating 6 to 9 small meals every three hours instead of a
:: breakfast, lunch and dinner lowers postprandial lipemia and glycemia
:: and prevents sugar roller coaster.
::

That's only true if you're eating goodly amounts of carbs in those "large"
meals. In a lower carb approach, that won't be true.

:: Eating timing and carb timing is more important than banning this or
:: that macronutrient from the diet and as a matter of fact the most
:: important factor in keeping diabetes and sugar levels under control
:: is not diet but exercise and physical activity.

Frankly, I dont think this is true at all. It is very possible to control
BGs by what you eat, and while exercise helps in many ways (I certainly
recommend it), it is not an option for some people and may not always be an
option for those for which it is currently an option. Eating in a way to
control BG is far more important and EASIER (IMO) than timing when and what
carbs to eat. Not eating starchy/sugary foods is quite simple, IMO and IME.
Of course, for those who have no skill at it that might not be so.
Personally, I refuse to dance around the issue.

When the body
:: exercises and requires fuel it becomes more sensitive to glucose the
:: amount of glucose receptors in the cells increase and insulin is
:: more effective. Another important test to make. Try to eat fruit
:: alone on a normal day and check your blood sugar levels then try to
:: eat fruit alone after your have exercised and check your blood sugar
:: levels.
:: Am J Clin Nutr 1970;23:1059-68/ N Engl J Med 1989;321:929-34/
:: Am J Clin Nutr 1993;57:446-51/
:: Am J Clin Nutr 1992;55:664-9/ Int J Obesity 1998;22:105-12/

Yeah, exercise is good for diabetics. It is recommended to exercise even by
Dr. B.

::
:: You may say: why don't you shut up and just tell all of this to your
:: aunt?
:: Well, my aunt is very skeptic and to just give her a serious book on
:: keeping diabetes under control through diet and exercise as a present
:: would be the only way to convince her to give it a try.
:: I don't know any low carb but not almost 0 carbs or ketogenic book
:: that deal with diabetes.

Even Aktins has a book on diabetes. "Aktins Diabetes Revolution," IIRC.

:: I would rather suggest to my uncle a moderate/low carb diet instead
:: of Dr Bernstein's because of the reasons above, I'm really afraid
:: Bernstein diet would worsen his condition and I do know there are
:: testimonials on the book of people who had success but there are many
:: success testimonial on Pritikin book that suggests 10% fat and 10%
:: protein

Well, I can understand your fear if you are not diabetic or a low carber....

I thought it was your aunt with the problems?

::
:: My questions a do you know a diabetes solution low carb
:: alternative that deals more with actual insulin output,

I don't know of any diet plan that addresses insulin output....all of them
deal with control of blood glucose levels.

effect of
:: exercise and balanced small meals rather than Dr Bernstein diet?
:: If not, what do you think about my doubts of Dr Bernstein dietary
:: guideline?

Personally, I use exercise and low carb to control my T2. I have completely
normal BGs level and A1C, great cholesterol numbers and am on no meds.

:: Did you have success with that diet?

Yeah, I lost about 142 lbs and am holding steady.

:: Is there anyone who has diebetes and whose health worsened by
:: following his diet?

That's a tricky thing to measure since one can have bad control for years
before adopting a new diet and once damage has progressed too far it may be
hard to reverse. But I know of no one personally.

Roger Zoul ha scritto:

Davide wrote:
:: Hello
:: My aunt is diabetic and I'm looking for an alternative to the
:: allopathic diet her endocrinologist prescribed to her, which is
:: basically eat all the **** you want as long as you take insulin
:: injection.
::

Why do you say it's your uncle at the end of this letter?

Because my english sucks

:: A lower carb approach is what I want to propose to her but I'm not
:: still sure what kind of diet
:: Many on the LC quarters praise Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and I
:: wonder if any diabetic here has success with this diet.

I've not used his specific diet as I find low carb and exercise works great.

::
:: Just like I didn't trust the usda high carb gurus I don't trust low
:: carb gurus for the sake of it and I'm perplexed about Dr. Bernstein
:: diet because of his claims (often wrong imo) that lead to a diet
:: which is basically just animal food and may not be that healthy for
:: everyone.

Not sure. It's not just animal food. Where'd you get such a notion?

Well most plant foods are completely forbidden. That leaves very little
room for anything that is not animal food. A ratio is not specified but
I guess is 90795% animal food and only 10/5% plant food.

:: I'm actually afraid that Dr Bernstein diet could worsen the condition
:: Dr Bernstein claims that the exclusion of all foods that contain
:: quite a few carbs would decrease the level of insulin.

Are you referring to injected insulin or insulin need to balance out high
blood glucose levels?

Well both. For type 2 diabetes the focus would be decreasing the
insulin output and for type 1 the focus would be decreasing the amount
of insulin needed to be injected

:: Then why beef raises insulin more than rice?

Curious that you're so worried about insulin rather than blood glocose
levels. Do you have a site for this?

Well glycemia is just half of the diabetes equation. Insulin output
matter as much.
A massive insulin output all the time weaken the pancreas even more too
much insulin causes other problems like hypoglycemia or coma.
In either case of diabetes or the body produces too little insulin or
the body produces too much, because of glucose insensitivity typical of
syndrome x. In both cases insulin plays a crucial role. Even Dr
Bernstein diet was publicized as a diet that lowers insulin by lowering
the amount of carbs consumed as insulin is secreted only when carbs are
eaten, some even believe that no carbs = no insulin. But this is not
true

:: It should be known so far that the author of the Glycemic Index
:: realized the GI was not a good predictor of insulin output so he
:: studied indeed the effect of each food on insulin levels and contrary
:: to the belief of many many animal foods with a low carb content or no
:: carb content raised insulin levels more than many high carb foods.
:: If that is true clearly substituting all carbs food with meat and
:: other animal foods may worsen the condition instead of improving it.
:: Holt SA et al Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66:1264-76

This is a curious paragraph. I've been following a LC woe for almost 5
years and have not seen any worsening of my T2 condition. I'd be suspicious
of a lay person trying to interpret research without adequate understanding
and background.

But my point was not directed at low carb, but extremely low carb or
high in foods that are believed to prevent insulin secretion and
actually have rises insulin secretion more than sugar. If someone
believes that only carbs make the body produce insulin they would also
believe that the solution to lower insulin secreation is eating just
beef and nothing else.
They think: beef = no carb = no insulin.
This mode of thinking would instead produce opposite effect since beef
rises insulin more than other high carbs food.
It's a very easy to interpret study: low carb foods may rise insulin as
high or even more than high carb food because it's physiologically
false that insulin is secreted only when carbs are eaten and so it's
false the equation carbs = insulin that most low carb gurus have been
claiming. Proteins have the same effect of carbs on insulin levels
Only fats are neutral and can lower the insuling rising effect of high
carb foods and high proteins foods.

:: Dr Bernstein says that all low glycemic carb foods will raise
:: postprandial glycemia in all diabetics and we just need to check it
:: with a glucometer but not only this is not true for everyone as I
:: know diabetics who can eat brown rice without getting postprandial
:: sugar spikes but Dr Bernsteain makes the mistake of checking the
:: effects of isolated foods but it's well known that carbs consumed
:: with protein and some fat keep sugar level steady and prevent sugar
:: spike.

It's a YMMV kind of thing, so he describes a type of diet that will make ALL
diabetics have NORMAL BGs levels, while not accountnig for those who can
tolerate higher carb levels. It's not a mistake to check foods in isolation
because one can't check all possible combinations of foods. So knowing
which foods likely cause problems and can potentially raise BGs is
important - especially if you don't want to test, test, test your entire
life.

But there are not many conbinations of foods, just basilar ones
A big meal of cabs eaten alone three times per day rises postprandial
glycemia big time
The same meal with protein and some fat lowers the postprandial
glycemia big time
The same amount of food consumed in more regular small meals lowers
glucose levels even more
Besides this diet may indeed normalize BGs levels, but if it doesn't
normalize insulin levels it's just half the solution it says to be

:: If you are diabetics and have a glucometer just check the effect of
:: eating 50 grams of pearled barley alone and 50 grams of pearled
:: barley and 50 grams of top sirloin plus a tbs of extra virgin oil or
:: melted butter.

This is well understood, even by Bernstein.

::
:: Last but not least the most important method to prevent insulin and
:: sugar spikes has to do with distribution rather than amount of carbs
:: or protein. Eating 6 to 9 small meals every three hours instead of a
:: breakfast, lunch and dinner lowers postprandial lipemia and glycemia
:: and prevents sugar roller coaster.
::

That's only true if you're eating goodly amounts of carbs in those "large"
meals. In a lower carb approach, that won't be true.

It will be true even if for a lower carb diet is consumed and it rises
postprandial insulin levels. Even lyposis and ketones are dependent on
insulin
If low carb diets wouldn't affect insulin levels it would be impossible
to gain weight while consuming a low carb diet or a meat and eggs diet
and this is not true and I know people who have gained fat weight with
those diets.

:: Eating timing and carb timing is more important than banning this or
:: that macronutrient from the diet and as a matter of fact the most
:: important factor in keeping diabetes and sugar levels under control
:: is not diet but exercise and physical activity.

Frankly, I dont think this is true at all. It is very possible to control
BGs by what you eat, and while exercise helps in many ways (I certainly
recommend it), it is not an option for some people and may not always be an
option for those for which it is currently an option. Eating in a way to
control BG is far more important and EASIER (IMO) than timing when and what
carbs to eat. Not eating starchy/sugary foods is quite simple, IMO and IME.
Of course, for those who have no skill at it that might not be so.
Personally, I refuse to dance around the issue.

But there can't be health without exercising, being an option or not
Even on low carb diets if there's not exercise the weight loss is
mostly muscle and even a thin person may have a body which is mostly
fat. As it is well know even a difference or 2% in fat mass percentage
may decrease sugar and insuling sensitivity and this is matters even
for those who don't consume carbs at all.
This is why it is so important to exercise, because lowering BF
percentage is the best way to increase insulin sensitivity and sugar
sensitivity, losing weight without exercising often does not result in
lowering BF percentage at all even if the weight drops

I don't think diabetes is a disease related to carbs alone and the
evidence is that while eating food low in carbs may control blood
gluose levels they don't appear to control insulin levels so well and
people on meat and eggs diet may still have insulin spikes and
hypoglycemia thereafter or sugar problems while population who consume
only high carb foods "pima indians" don't suffer from diabetes but it's
not genetics as when they move to US and eat a SAD american diet they
develop diabetes like everyone else.
This is the only reason why while a low carber myself I'm wary of Dr
Bernstein approach

When the body
:: exercises and requires fuel it becomes more sensitive to glucose the
:: amount of glucose receptors in the cells increase and insulin is
:: more effective. Another important test to make. Try to eat fruit
:: alone on a normal day and check your blood sugar levels then try to
:: eat fruit alone after your have exercised and check your blood sugar
:: levels.
:: Am J Clin Nutr 1970;23:1059-68/ N Engl J Med 1989;321:929-34/
:: Am J Clin Nutr 1993;57:446-51/
:: Am J Clin Nutr 1992;55:664-9/ Int J Obesity 1998;22:105-12/

Yeah, exercise is good for diabetics. It is recommended to exercise even by
Dr. B.

::
:: You may say: why don't you shut up and just tell all of this to your
:: aunt?
:: Well, my aunt is very skeptic and to just give her a serious book on
:: keeping diabetes under control through diet and exercise as a present
:: would be the only way to convince her to give it a try.
:: I don't know any low carb but not almost 0 carbs or ketogenic book
:: that deal with diabetes.

Even Aktins has a book on diabetes. "Aktins Diabetes Revolution," IIRC.

:: I would rather suggest to my uncle a moderate/low carb diet instead
:: of Dr Bernstein's because of the reasons above, I'm really afraid
:: Bernstein diet would worsen his condition and I do know there are
:: testimonials on the book of people who had success but there are many
:: success testimonial on Pritikin book that suggests 10% fat and 10%
:: protein

Well, I can understand your fear if you are not diabetic or a low carber....

I thought it was your aunt with the problems?

yes, my english .. you know ... typos
I'm not diabetics just hypoglycemic and low carber
I mentioned Pritikin just to point out that success testimonial are not
an evidence of the healthfulness of the diet.

:: My questions a do you know a diabetes solution low carb
:: alternative that deals more with actual insulin output,

I don't know of any diet plan that addresses insulin output....all of them
deal with control of blood glucose levels.

Actually lowering insulin levels has been the trademark of most low
carb gurus and books and it's an important point in keeping diabetes
under control even if certain commercial books don't mention it

effect of
:: exercise and balanced small meals rather than Dr Bernstein diet?
:: If not, what do you think about my doubts of Dr Bernstein dietary
:: guideline?

Personally, I use exercise and low carb to control my T2. I have completely
normal BGs level and A1C, great cholesterol numbers and am on no meds.

:: Did you have success with that diet?

Yeah, I lost about 142 lbs and am holding steady.

:: Is there anyone who has diebetes and whose health worsened by
:: following his diet?

That's a tricky thing to measure since one can have bad control for years
before adopting a new diet and once damage has progressed too far it may be
hard to reverse. But I know of no one personally.

Thanks for the replies
David

Davide wrote:

Hello
My aunt is diabetic and I'm looking for an alternative to the
allopathic diet her endocrinologist prescribed to her, which is
basically eat all the **** you want as long as you take insulin
injection.

A lower carb approach is what I want to propose to her but I'm not
still sure what kind of diet


The best diabetic food plan for your aunt... is her own personalized one.

Here's the advice I give all those who want to get their glucose under
control.

Sounds like you're planning a move to take control of your diabetes... good
for you.

There is so much to absorb... you don't have to rush into anything. Begin
by using your best weapon in this war, your meter. You won't keel over
today, you have time to experiment, test, learn, test and figure out just
how your body and this disease are getting along. The most important
thing you can do to learn about yourself and diabetes is test test test.

More than most anything, what you eat will affect your diabetes and
your blood glucose numbers.

And more than anything you eat, carbs will affect your diabetes and
your blood glucose numbers.

So, the most important information you can begin to compile about
yourself, is how your body handles carbs.

This sounds like you would need a low carb food plan right?

You don't... what you need to uncover is YOUR Personalized Carb Number.

Which actually works better for most everyone. Because low to one
person is wildly high to another, but waaaaay too low for someone
else.

Is low carb less than 30g a day? Is it anything less than the
Pyramid reccomendations?

Finding your Personalized Carb Number is easy.

Here's how you can figure out your own Personalized Carb Number.

The single biggest question a diabetic has to answer is:

What do I eat?

Unfortunately, the answer is pretty confusing.

What confounds us all is the fact that different diabetics can get great
results on wildly different food plans. Some of us here achieve
great blood glucose control eating a high complex carbohydrate diet.
Others find that anything over 75 - 100g of carbs a day is too
much. Still others are somewhere in between.

At the beginning all of us felt frustrated. We wanted to be handed
THE way to eat, to ensure our continued health. But we all
learned that there is no one way. Each of us had to find our own path,
using the experience of those that went before, but still having
to discover for ourselves how OUR bodies and this disease were coexisting.

Ask questions, but remember each of us discovered on our own what works best
for us. You can use our experiences as jumping off points, but eventually
you'll work up a successful plan that is yours alone.

What you are looking to discover is how different foods affect you. As I'm
sure you've read, carbohydrates (sugars, wheat, rice... the things our
Grandmas called "starches") raise blood sugars the most rapidly. Protein
and fat do raise them, but not as high and much more slowly... so if you're
a T2, generally the insulin your body still makes may take care of the rise.

You might want to try some experiments.

First: Eat whatever you've been
currently eating... but write it all down.
Test yourself at the following times:

Upon waking (fasting)
1 hour after each meal
2 hours after each meal
At bedtime

That means 8 x each day. What you will discover by this is how long
after a meal your highest reading comes... and how fast you return to
"normal". Also, you may see that a meal that included bread, fruit or
other carbs gives you a higher reading.

Then for the next few days, try to curb your carbs. Eliminate breads,
cereals, rices, beans, any wheat products, potato, corn, fruit... get all
your carbs from veggies. Test at the same schedule above.

If you try this for a few days, you may find some pretty damn good
readings. It's worth a few days to discover.

Eventually you can slowly add back carbs until you see them affecting your
meter.

The thing about this disease... though we share much in common and we
need to
follow certain guidelines... in the end, each of our bodies dictate our
treatment and our success.

The closer we get to non-diabetic numbers, the greater chance we have of
avoiding horrible complications. The key here is AIM... I know that
everyone is at a different point in their disease... and it is progressive.
But, if we aim for the best numbers and do our best, we give ourselves the
best shot at heath we've got.
That's all we can do.

Here's my opinion on what numbers to aim for, they are non-diabetic numbers.

FBG under 100
One hour after meals under 140
Two hours after meals under 120

or for those in the mmol parts of the world:

Fasting Under 6
One hour after meals Under 8
Two hours after meals Under 6.5

Recent studies have indicated that the most important numbers are your
"after meal" numbers. They may be the most indicative of future
complications, especially heart problems.

Listen to your doctor, but you are the leader of your diabetic
care team. While his /her advice is learned, it is not absolute. You
will end up knowing much more about your body and how it's handling
diabetes than your doctor will. Your meter is your best weapon.

Just remember, we're not in a race or a competition with anyone but
ourselves... Play around with your food plan... TEST TEST TEST. Learn what
foods cause spikes, what foods cause cravings... Use your body as a science
experiment.

You'll read about a lot of different ways people use to control their
diabetes... Many are diametrically opposed. After awhile you'll learn that
there is no one size fits all around here. Take some time to experiment
and you'll soon discover the plan that works for you.

Best of luck!

Jennifer

Davide wrote:

Roger Zoul ha scritto:


Davide wrote:
:: Hello
:: My aunt is diabetic and I'm looking for an alternative to the
:: allopathic diet her endocrinologist prescribed to her, which is
:: basically eat all the **** you want as long as you take insulin
:: injection.
::

Why do you say it's your uncle at the end of this letter?


Because my english sucks


:: A lower carb approach is what I want to propose to her but I'm not
:: still sure what kind of diet
:: Many on the LC quarters praise Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and I
:: wonder if any diabetic here has success with this diet.

I've not used his specific diet as I find low carb and exercise works great.

::
:: Just like I didn't trust the usda high carb gurus I don't trust low
:: carb gurus for the sake of it and I'm perplexed about Dr. Bernstein
:: diet because of his claims (often wrong imo) that lead to a diet
:: which is basically just animal food and may not be that healthy for
:: everyone.

Not sure. It's not just animal food. Where'd you get such a notion?


Well most plant foods are completely forbidden. That leaves very little
room for anything that is not animal food. A ratio is not specified but
I guess is 90795% animal food and only 10/5% plant food.


I don't think you've read the book then.

You can even read a lot of it free online he
http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

But here's a list of just some of the non-animal foods Bernstein says
you can and should eat:

Vegetables
Most vegetables, other than those listed in the No-No section, are
acceptable.
Acceptable vegetables include asparagus, avocado, broccoli, brussels
sprouts, cabbage and sauerkraut, cauliflower, eggplant, onions (in small
amounts), peppers (any color except yellow), mushrooms, spinach, string
beans, summer squash, and zucchini. As a rule of thumb, ? cup of diced
or sliced cooked vegetable,¼ cup mashed cooked vegetable, or 1 cup of
mixed salad acts upon blood sugar as if it contains about 6 grams of
carbohydrate. Remember that cooked vegetables tend to raise blood sugar
more rapidly than raw vegetables because the heat makes them more
digestible and converts some of the cellulose to sugar. Generally, more
cooked vegetables by weight will occupy less volume in a measuring cup,
so ? cup cooked spinach will weigh considerably more than ? cup
uncooked. On your self-measurements, note how your favorite vegetables
affect your blood sugar. Raw vegetables can present digestive problems
to people with gastroparesis.

Of the following vegetables, each acts upon blood sugar as if it
contains about 6 grams of carbohydrate in ? cup (all cooked except as
noted):

artichoke hearts
asparagus
bamboo shoots
beet greens
bell peppers (green and red only, no yellow) (cooked or raw)
bok choy (Chinese cabbage)
broccoli
brussels sprouts
cabbage
celery
celery root (celeriac)
collard greens
daikon radish
dandelion greens
eggplant
endive
escarole
hearts of palm
kohlrabi
mushrooms
mustard greens
okra
patty pan squash
pumpkin
radicchio
rhubarb
sauerkraut
scallions
snow peas
spaghetti squash
spinach
string beans
summer squash
turnip greens
turnips
water chestnuts
watercress
zucchini
zucchini flowers

In addition to the above, you should keep the following in mind:
• Onions are high in carbohydrate and should only be used in small
amounts for flavoring—small amounts of chives or shallots can pack a lot
of flavor.
• One-half small avocado contains about 6 grams of carbohydrate.
• One cup mixed green salad without carrots and with a single
slice of tomato or onion has about the same impact on blood sugars as 6
grams of carbohydrate.
• One-quarter cup mashed pumpkin contains about 6 grams of carbohydrate.
My own opinion is that without some flavoring, pumpkin tastes about as
appetizing as Kleenex. Therefore I flavor it with much stevia and spice
(cinnamon) and warm it to make it a bit like pumpkin pie filling. (For
other vegetables from this list, such as turnips, assume that ¼ cup of
the mashed product contains 6 grams of carbohydrate.)

Davide wrote:
:: Roger Zoul ha scritto:
::
::: Davide wrote:
::::: Hello
::::: My aunt is diabetic and I'm looking for an alternative to the
::::: allopathic diet her endocrinologist prescribed to her, which is
::::: basically eat all the **** you want as long as you take insulin
::::: injection.
:::::
:::
::: Why do you say it's your uncle at the end of this letter?
::
:: Because my english sucks
::
::::: A lower carb approach is what I want to propose to her but I'm not
::::: still sure what kind of diet
::::: Many on the LC quarters praise Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution
::::: and I wonder if any diabetic here has success with this diet.
:::
::: I've not used his specific diet as I find low carb and exercise
::: works great.
:::
:::::
::::: Just like I didn't trust the usda high carb gurus I don't trust
::::: low carb gurus for the sake of it and I'm perplexed about Dr.
::::: Bernstein diet because of his claims (often wrong imo) that lead
::::: to a diet which is basically just animal food and may not be that
::::: healthy for everyone.
:::
::: Not sure. It's not just animal food. Where'd you get such a
::: notion?
::
:: Well most plant foods are completely forbidden. That leaves very
:: little room for anything that is not animal food. A ratio is not
:: specified but I guess is 90795% animal food and only 10/5% plant
:: food.

I find this hard to understand....it's not about the numbers of foods you
can eat, but the quantity. It takes a lot of broccoli to get a significant
amount of carbs.

::
::::: I'm actually afraid that Dr Bernstein diet could worsen the
::::: condition Dr Bernstein claims that the exclusion of all foods
::::: that contain quite a few carbs would decrease the level of
::::: insulin.
:::
::: Are you referring to injected insulin or insulin need to balance
::: out high blood glucose levels?
::
:: Well both. For type 2 diabetes the focus would be decreasing the
:: insulin output and for type 1 the focus would be decreasing the
:: amount of insulin needed to be injected

Well, if a T1 produced no insulin and only gets it by injection, then what
is the issue there? T2s are different, with produced insulin either not
working or too little to control BG levels. It's doubtful there is too much
insulin simply as a result of eating mostly animal food.

::
::::: Then why beef raises insulin more than rice?
:::
::: Curious that you're so worried about insulin rather than blood
::: glocose levels. Do you have a site for this?
::
:: Well glycemia is just half of the diabetes equation. Insulin output
:: matter as much.
:: A massive insulin output all the time weaken the pancreas even more
:: too much insulin causes other problems like hypoglycemia or coma.
:: In either case of diabetes or the body produces too little insulin or
:: the body produces too much, because of glucose insensitivity typical
:: of syndrome x. In both cases insulin plays a crucial role. Even Dr
:: Bernstein diet was publicized as a diet that lowers insulin by
:: lowering the amount of carbs consumed as insulin is secreted only
:: when carbs are eaten, some even believe that no carbs = no insulin.
:: But this is not true

Yes, we know that protein is converted to glucose at a rate of 58%, so
insulin will be produced on diets high in protein. But that process is slow
and generally for T2s, is such that BG levels never get too high.

::
::::: It should be known so far that the author of the Glycemic Index
::::: realized the GI was not a good predictor of insulin output so he
::::: studied indeed the effect of each food on insulin levels and
::::: contrary to the belief of many many animal foods with a low carb
::::: content or no carb content raised insulin levels more than many
::::: high carb foods. If that is true clearly substituting all carbs
::::: food with meat and other animal foods may worsen the condition
::::: instead of improving it.

:::: Holt SA et al Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66:1264-76

Are you sure about this cite? I can't pull this article. For one thing,
1997 is volume 30, not 66. There is no article that starts on page 1264,
either.

:::
::: This is a curious paragraph. I've been following a LC woe for
::: almost 5 years and have not seen any worsening of my T2 condition.
::: I'd be suspicious of a lay person trying to interpret research
::: without adequate understanding and background.
::
:: But my point was not directed at low carb, but extremely low carb or
:: high in foods that are believed to prevent insulin secretion and
:: actually have rises insulin secretion more than sugar.

You know, most foods such as beef are higher in fat than in protein...

If someone
:: believes that only carbs make the body produce insulin they would
:: also believe that the solution to lower insulin secreation is eating
:: just beef and nothing else.
:: They think: beef = no carb = no insulin.
:: This mode of thinking would instead produce opposite effect since
:: beef rises insulin more than other high carbs food.

Where are you getting this notion? From that one paper? Most beef is high
in fat which only converts to glucose at 10% rate.

:: It's a very easy to interpret study: low carb foods may rise insulin
:: as high or even more than high carb food because it's physiologically
:: false that insulin is secreted only when carbs are eaten and so it's
:: false the equation carbs = insulin that most low carb gurus have been
:: claiming. Proteins have the same effect of carbs on insulin levels
:: Only fats are neutral and can lower the insuling rising effect of
:: high carb foods and high proteins foods.

Animal foods are not 100% protein...most meats are fatty, unless you select
the lean cuts.

::
::::: Dr Bernstein says that all low glycemic carb foods will raise
::::: postprandial glycemia in all diabetics and we just need to check
::::: it with a glucometer but not only this is not true for everyone
::::: as I know diabetics who can eat brown rice without getting
::::: postprandial sugar spikes but Dr Bernsteain makes the mistake of
::::: checking the effects of isolated foods but it's well known that
::::: carbs consumed with protein and some fat keep sugar level steady
::::: and prevent sugar spike.
:::
::: It's a YMMV kind of thing, so he describes a type of diet that will
::: make ALL diabetics have NORMAL BGs levels, while not accountnig for
::: those who can tolerate higher carb levels. It's not a mistake to
::: check foods in isolation because one can't check all possible
::: combinations of foods. So knowing which foods likely cause
::: problems and can potentially raise BGs is important - especially if
::: you don't want to test, test, test your entire life.
::
:: But there are not many conbinations of foods, just basilar ones
:: A big meal of cabs eaten alone three times per day rises postprandial
:: glycemia big time
:: The same meal with protein and some fat lowers the postprandial
:: glycemia big time
:: The same amount of food consumed in more regular small meals lowers
:: glucose levels even more

The question of what is big and small is what matters. A BIG meal that is
too much food should be contrasted to a meal that is sufficient to fuel the
body. Eating 3 sufficient meals that are low in carbs will not cause
problems. Eating 3 BIG meals that result in overeating could.

:: Besides this diet may indeed normalize BGs levels, but if it doesn't
:: normalize insulin levels it's just half the solution it says to be
::

I don't think any T1s eating this diet are going to produce too much insulin
(or any)...and for T2s the conversion rate will be slow enough that the
partly functioning pancreas can handle the load. Of course, overeating can
cause it's own problems.


::::: If you are diabetics and have a glucometer just check the effect
::::: of eating 50 grams of pearled barley alone and 50 grams of pearled
::::: barley and 50 grams of top sirloin plus a tbs of extra virgin oil
::::: or melted butter.
:::
::: This is well understood, even by Bernstein.
:::
:::::
::::: Last but not least the most important method to prevent insulin
::::: and sugar spikes has to do with distribution rather than amount
::::: of carbs or protein. Eating 6 to 9 small meals every three hours
::::: instead of a breakfast, lunch and dinner lowers postprandial
::::: lipemia and glycemia and prevents sugar roller coaster.
:::::
:::
::: That's only true if you're eating goodly amounts of carbs in those
::: "large" meals. In a lower carb approach, that won't be true.
::
:: It will be true even if for a lower carb diet is consumed and it
:: rises postprandial insulin levels. Even lyposis and ketones are
:: dependent on insulin
:: If low carb diets wouldn't affect insulin levels it would be
:: impossible to gain weight while consuming a low carb diet or a meat
:: and eggs diet and this is not true and I know people who have gained
:: fat weight with those diets.

Right. One can gain weight eating on a LC diet since a lot of protein will
convert to glucose and drive the need for insulin. But that's not nearly as
great as what happens if one eat just a little bit of carbs. Also, most
people will find it hard to consistently overeat a diet high in fat and
protein.

::
::::: Eating timing and carb timing is more important than banning this
::::: or that macronutrient from the diet and as a matter of fact the
::::: most important factor in keeping diabetes and sugar levels under
::::: control is not diet but exercise and physical activity.
:::
::: Frankly, I dont think this is true at all. It is very possible to
::: control BGs by what you eat, and while exercise helps in many ways
::: (I certainly recommend it), it is not an option for some people and
::: may not always be an option for those for which it is currently an
::: option. Eating in a way to control BG is far more important and
::: EASIER (IMO) than timing when and what carbs to eat. Not eating
::: starchy/sugary foods is quite simple, IMO and IME. Of course, for
::: those who have no skill at it that might not be so. Personally, I
::: refuse to dance around the issue.
::
:: But there can't be health without exercising, being an option or not

I don't think that is proven beyond normal day to day functioning.

:: Even on low carb diets if there's not exercise the weight loss is
:: mostly muscle and even a thin person may have a body which is mostly
:: fat.

There are studies which contradict this, I believe.

As it is well know even a difference or 2% in fat mass
:: percentage may decrease sugar and insuling sensitivity and this is
:: matters even for those who don't consume carbs at all.
:: This is why it is so important to exercise, because lowering BF
:: percentage is the best way to increase insulin sensitivity and sugar
:: sensitivity, losing weight without exercising often does not result
:: in lowering BF percentage at all even if the weight drops

Again, I don't believe this is proven at all. You're saying that the body
eats it muscle if one loses weight without exercising, while sparing fat. I
don't accept that for any diet that is sufficient in dietary protein.
Dieting in generally will result in muscle loss, but those on a LC diet will
generally have less muscle loss. Some studies have even found evidence of
muscle GAIN on low carb diets.

::
:: I don't think diabetes is a disease related to carbs alone and the
:: evidence is that while eating food low in carbs may control blood
:: gluose levels they don't appear to control insulin levels so well

I don't believe there is sufficient evidence to support this claim of yours.
What drives insulin levels so high?

and
:: people on meat and eggs diet may still have insulin spikes and
:: hypoglycemia thereafter or sugar problems while population who
:: consume only high carb foods "pima indians" don't suffer from
:: diabetes but it's not genetics as when they move to US and eat a SAD
:: american diet they develop diabetes like everyone else.
:: This is the only reason why while a low carber myself I'm wary of Dr
:: Bernstein approach

You do realize that Bernsteins is a T1 and has been for many, many years.
He's also an MD. If his diet didn't work, I think he'd be dead by now.
Also, he treats patients with his diet. If your claim was true, he'd be
guilty of killing many of them.
::
::: When the body
::::: exercises and requires fuel it becomes more sensitive to glucose
::::: the amount of glucose receptors in the cells increase and insulin
::::: is more effective. Another important test to make. Try to eat
::::: fruit alone on a normal day and check your blood sugar levels
::::: then try to eat fruit alone after your have exercised and check
::::: your blood sugar levels.
::::: Am J Clin Nutr 1970;23:1059-68/ N Engl J Med 1989;321:929-34/
::::: Am J Clin Nutr 1993;57:446-51/
::::: Am J Clin Nutr 1992;55:664-9/ Int J Obesity 1998;22:105-12/
:::
::: Yeah, exercise is good for diabetics. It is recommended to exercise
::: even by Dr. B.
:::
:::::
::::: You may say: why don't you shut up and just tell all of this to
::::: your aunt?
::::: Well, my aunt is very skeptic and to just give her a serious book
::::: on keeping diabetes under control through diet and exercise as a
::::: present would be the only way to convince her to give it a try.
::::: I don't know any low carb but not almost 0 carbs or ketogenic book
::::: that deal with diabetes.
:::
::: Even Aktins has a book on diabetes. "Aktins Diabetes Revolution,"
::: IIRC.
:::
::::: I would rather suggest to my uncle a moderate/low carb diet
::::: instead of Dr Bernstein's because of the reasons above, I'm
::::: really afraid Bernstein diet would worsen his condition and I do
::::: know there are testimonials on the book of people who had success
::::: but there are many success testimonial on Pritikin book that
::::: suggests 10% fat and 10% protein
:::
::: Well, I can understand your fear if you are not diabetic or a low
::: carber....
:::
::: I thought it was your aunt with the problems?
::
:: yes, my english .. you know ... typos
:: I'm not diabetics just hypoglycemic and low carber
:: I mentioned Pritikin just to point out that success testimonial are
:: not an evidence of the healthfulness of the diet.
::
::::: My questions a do you know a diabetes solution low carb
::::: alternative that deals more with actual insulin output,
:::
::: I don't know of any diet plan that addresses insulin output....all
::: of them deal with control of blood glucose levels.
::
:: Actually lowering insulin levels has been the trademark of most low
:: carb gurus and books and it's an important point in keeping diabetes
:: under control even if certain commercial books don't mention it
::

Bernstein's diet is strict, even by LC standards. However, it won't worsen
the diabetic condition. I think you've simply got some details mixed up.


::: effect of
::::: exercise and balanced small meals rather than Dr Bernstein diet?
::::: If not, what do you think about my doubts of Dr Bernstein dietary
::::: guideline?
:::
::: Personally, I use exercise and low carb to control my T2. I have
::: completely normal BGs level and A1C, great cholesterol numbers and
::: am on no meds.
:::
::::: Did you have success with that diet?
:::
::: Yeah, I lost about 142 lbs and am holding steady.
:::
::::: Is there anyone who has diebetes and whose health worsened by
::::: following his diet?
:::
::: That's a tricky thing to measure since one can have bad control for
::: years before adopting a new diet and once damage has progressed too
::: far it may be hard to reverse. But I know of no one personally.
::
:: Thanks for the replies
:: David

Anyhow, you don't need to recommend Bernstein...Atkins or LC works just fine
for many folks.

Jennifer ha scritto:

But here's a list of just some of the non-animal foods Bernstein says
you can and should eat:

Vegetables
Most vegetables, other than those listed in the No-No section, are
acceptable.

I wouldn't count carbs in vegetables. Vegetables are known as "negative
calorie" foods.
It means that they provide less calories than you need to digest them.
All the carbs in vegetables are just used to digest the vegetables
you're eating and so they have no effect for other physiological
processes
The rule of vegetables that the more you eat the more your lose is so
true that during a prolonged period of starvation you would die sooner
from eating vegetables and drinking water than drinking water alone.
In fact no one would ever goes out from ketosis by eating vegetables
unless they're blended
On the low carb active forums there are people who after realizing
"they" personally need more carbs to sustain thir physical activity and
not blank out during workout increase their carb intake through
vegetables consumption and they lament that nothing changed even if
they was able to add 30g of carbs by consuming carrots, tomatoes, kale
and so on.
Greens are even more negative calorie food than other vegetables

David

My response to you was because you said that Bernstein was virtually a
meat only food plan.

It is clearly not.

And the idea of "negative calorie" foods is bunk.

What was your aunt/uncle's last A1c? What numbers is he/she getting
post meals?


Jennifer


Davide wrote:

Jennifer ha scritto:


But here's a list of just some of the non-animal foods Bernstein says
you can and should eat:

Vegetables
Most vegetables, other than those listed in the No-No section, are
acceptable.


I wouldn't count carbs in vegetables. Vegetables are known as "negative
calorie" foods.
It means that they provide less calories than you need to digest them.
All the carbs in vegetables are just used to digest the vegetables
you're eating and so they have no effect for other physiological
processes
The rule of vegetables that the more you eat the more your lose is so
true that during a prolonged period of starvation you would die sooner
from eating vegetables and drinking water than drinking water alone.
In fact no one would ever goes out from ketosis by eating vegetables
unless they're blended
On the low carb active forums there are people who after realizing
"they" personally need more carbs to sustain thir physical activity and
not blank out during workout increase their carb intake through
vegetables consumption and they lament that nothing changed even if
they was able to add 30g of carbs by consuming carrots, tomatoes, kale
and so on.
Greens are even more negative calorie food than other vegetables

David