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#201
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WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health
On 1 Jan 2007 09:13:20 -0800, "martha"
wrote: I think you miss the point of my research. I could not find any positive results in conventional medicine for curing depression - drugs, ECTs and brain surgery do not cure depression and very often sufferers do not know that there are alternatives available, or they are not available on the health service and people can't afford them. I have found positive results among some alternative therapy practitioners e.g. spiritual healing, hypnotherapy, and thought field therapy. Of course, there are many alternative therapies and there are negative results too, but the point is while conventional medicine cannot cure depression, there are alternative therapies that can and I am interested to know about them. Aren't you? Are you avoiding saying that alternative therapies "cure" depression? Drugs surely alleviate the symptoms of depression in a proportion of the depressed population. About the same proportion as are helped by cognitive behavioural therapy. jack |
#202
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WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health
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#204
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WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health
On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:44:08 GMT, GMCarter wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:33:16 +0900, en wrote: On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:19:38 GMT, GMCarter wrote: Something that has been destroyed almost entirely by the lies of the industry... Which industry, though? Surely both. More so the "patent medicine" industry by a LONG shot than the "CAM" industry. It is a matter of great degree. Only in proportion to the relative sizes of the two industries. The PM industry has many more government controls over it than the CAM industry, well at least they do in Australia. The PM industry must show efficacy, the CAM only that their product does no harm. Anyone will guild their lily for money if there are no sanctions against it. That's why we have govt regulation and the scientific community have such strong sanctions against scientific fraud. Well at least in most developed places in the world. LOL...you're kidding, right? The FDA has become so corrupt under the Bush administration--and NIH ain't exactly a land lacking "conflicts of interest." Hey, the FDA is your baby, you voted for the Bush administration. Go ask your electorate. However, the structures are in place and need merely decent funding, good people and some organizational changes (e.g., stronger conflicts of interest laws but better pay for researchers and post-docs) in order to have that capacity to do good research and defend against fraud. I'm sure you are right On the industry side, failure to undertake promised phase IV post-marketing studies on predicated FDA approval should come with severe penalties. Like the CEO and BoD gets no salary or bonus or golden parachute. That's a bit too interfering in corporate affairs, I would have thought. Let the business do what it is meant to do, invest shareholders' money advantageously. Then you should elect folk to make strong laws to be carried out without fear or favour. I would guess this starts with the electorate. You tend to vote (or not) for the administration you deserve. Then again, this could be best tackled at the source. EDUCATION. What percentage of the American population believes that the universe was created since the domestication of the dog? jack |
#205
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WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:57:19 +0900, en wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:44:08 GMT, GMCarter wrote: On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:33:16 +0900, en wrote: On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:19:38 GMT, GMCarter wrote: Something that has been destroyed almost entirely by the lies of the industry... Which industry, though? Surely both. More so the "patent medicine" industry by a LONG shot than the "CAM" industry. It is a matter of great degree. Only in proportion to the relative sizes of the two industries. On what basis do you make THAT claim? Pharmaceutical companies do a LOT more research--or get the NIH to do it--and then cover up the negative results. The CAM industry is only beginning to do some research. More of it is done by universities who haven't yet lost their last vestige of credibility, so results are published as they are, good or bad. The PM industry has many more government controls over it than the CAM industry, well at least they do in Australia. The PM industry must show efficacy, the CAM only that their product does no harm. CAM--dietary supplements at least in the US--is for the most part stuff that has LONG been used and generally recognized as safe. Anyone will guild their lily for money if there are no sanctions against it. That's why we have govt regulation and the scientific community have such strong sanctions against scientific fraud. Well at least in most developed places in the world. LOL...you're kidding, right? The FDA has become so corrupt under the Bush administration--and NIH ain't exactly a land lacking "conflicts of interest." Hey, the FDA is your baby, you voted for the Bush administration. I most certainly did NOT. And that piece of lying, murdering **** was NOT elected--he stole the office twice. Feh. George M. Carter |
#206
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WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:03:34 GMT, GMCarter wrote:
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:57:19 +0900, en wrote: On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:44:08 GMT, GMCarter wrote: On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:33:16 +0900, en wrote: On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:19:38 GMT, GMCarter wrote: Something that has been destroyed almost entirely by the lies of the industry... Which industry, though? Surely both. More so the "patent medicine" industry by a LONG shot than the "CAM" industry. It is a matter of great degree. Only in proportion to the relative sizes of the two industries. On what basis do you make THAT claim? Pharmaceutical companies do a LOT more research--or get the NIH to do it--and then cover up the negative results. The CAM industry is only beginning to do some research. More of it is done by universities who haven't yet lost their last vestige of credibility, so results are published as they are, good or bad. Well, from my reading and experience, universities do much research for both industries. The problem with CAM is that the vast majority of studies show no pharmacological activity, or activity that is well known and avauilable more accurately from a PM pill. Of course, there are some areas where much research is directed and that is looking for new molecules in all sorts of strange places. The PM industry has many more government controls over it than the CAM industry, well at least they do in Australia. The PM industry must show efficacy, the CAM only that their product does no harm. CAM--dietary supplements at least in the US--is for the most part stuff that has LONG been used and generally recognized as safe. Can you give a few examples of any that are efficaceous as well? Anyone will guild their lily for money if there are no sanctions against it. That's why we have govt regulation and the scientific community have such strong sanctions against scientific fraud. Well at least in most developed places in the world. LOL...you're kidding, right? The FDA has become so corrupt under the Bush administration--and NIH ain't exactly a land lacking "conflicts of interest." Hey, the FDA is your baby, you voted for the Bush administration. I most certainly did NOT. And that piece of lying, murdering **** was NOT elected--he stole the office twice. Good point, but I didn't mean you personally (I credit you with much more sense) I meant the American electorate, or at least a rather large minority of it. jack |
#207
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WARNING: Industry Is Blogging these NewsGroups to Impact the Public Discourse on Matters of Public Health
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#208
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Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"
Peter Bowditch wrote: (Richard Schultz) wrote: In misc.health.alternative PeterB wrote: : I don't push products, I merely point out the differences between drugs : and nutrients. What deficiency disease is caused by a lack of "Vitamin B17" in the diet? Hypocyanosis? They made up a word for "losing in court?" |
#209
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Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"
PeterB wrote:
Peter Bowditch wrote: (Richard Schultz) wrote: In misc.health.alternative PeterB wrote: : I don't push products, I merely point out the differences between drugs : and nutrients. What deficiency disease is caused by a lack of "Vitamin B17" in the diet? Hypocyanosis? They made up a word for "losing in court?" You make even less sense that you usually do. |
#210
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Warning, was "WARNING: Industry"
Mark Probert wrote:
PeterB wrote: Peter Bowditch wrote: (Richard Schultz) wrote: In misc.health.alternative PeterB wrote: : I don't push products, I merely point out the differences between drugs : and nutrients. What deficiency disease is caused by a lack of "Vitamin B17" in the diet? Hypocyanosis? They made up a word for "losing in court?" You make even less sense that you usually do. As anyone with even a passing familiarity with medical terminology could work out what "hypocyanosis" means even if they had never seen the word before, I guess we can assume that the language of medicine is another thing that quack supporters don't need to know about. -- Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com |
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