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#21
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
Billy wrote:
" wrote: To review further, first, Omelet never mentioned that he/she was diabetic. So, if she isn't the comment wouldn't relate to Om, would it? Om said that she has talked to Doug before, so maybe there is a communication we aren't apprised of. In other discussion on another group she has mentioned she's pre-diabetic. It makes me conservative about her taking extremist approaches. The Fat Fast is a deliberate attempt to push the ketone levels higher than occur during regular Induction. Not a good idea for someone who probably has ketone test strips but who probably does not have a blood glucose test meter. The Fat Fast is intended for folks who can't get into ketosis at 20 carb grams per day. In theory it's use by others is an abuse. In practice folks use it as a stall buster or because they want to be as extreme as they can and that's as extreme as gets mentioned in the Atkins books. Since Om does not mention problems with getting into ketosis at 20 her using it is theoretically an abuse in addition to the issue of probably not having a meter. |
#22
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
Billy wrote:
Anyway all we got was: Helooo friends !!!! This is ALan Smith I am Working as a content writer I am bit bulky so loose the weight I have joined the Gym. Still I have not concentrated on my diet so please suggest me Low Carbohydrate Diets..... If he wants someone to suggest a low carb diet I've long been biased in favor of Doctor Atkins New Diet Revolution. Any of the editions 1972 (without the word New in the title), 1993, 1999, 2002 or the latest one written post-mortem by a team of doctors at the Atkins Center. There are plenty of other popular low carb plans and they all have their fans. They are all good plans. Picking a plan based on long term popularity works just fine. Just follow the directions of your chosen plan including the parts that you don't understand or disagree with. The authors of these plans work on them a decade and more and they figure out stuff that's not obvious that works better than the obvious. If all he has to go on is exercise that can be simple. To lose a kilogram of fat run about two marathons. If he wants to use exercise to lose 5 kg per month that's running a marathon every three days. Being heavy makes running harder so it might not even be possible to achieve the type of physical conditioning it takes to run a marathon. Chicken and egg. Look at the folks on the TV show Biggest Loser. They spend all day every day in the gym. Running the arithmatic on exercise it becomes easy to understand why exercise is very good at preventing regain but not nearly as good at causing loss in the first place. Of course exercise plus diet works better than either exercise or diet but both together work best. |
#23
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote: Billy wrote: Anyway all we got was: Helooo friends !!!! This is ALan Smith I am Working as a content writer I am bit bulky so loose the weight I have joined the Gym. Still I have not concentrated on my diet so please suggest me Low Carbohydrate Diets..... If he wants someone to suggest a low carb diet I've long been biased in favor of Doctor Atkins New Diet Revolution. Any of the editions 1972 (without the word New in the title), 1993, 1999, 2002 or the latest one written post-mortem by a team of doctors at the Atkins Center. There are plenty of other popular low carb plans and they all have their fans. They are all good plans. Picking a plan based on long term popularity works just fine. Just follow the directions of your chosen plan including the parts that you don't understand or disagree with. The authors of these plans work on them a decade and more and they figure out stuff that's not obvious that works better than the obvious. If all he has to go on is exercise that can be simple. To lose a kilogram of fat run about two marathons. If he wants to use exercise to lose 5 kg per month that's running a marathon every three days. Being heavy makes running harder so it might not even be possible to achieve the type of physical conditioning it takes to run a marathon. Chicken and egg. Look at the folks on the TV show Biggest Loser. They spend all day every day in the gym. Running the arithmatic on exercise it becomes easy to understand why exercise is very good at preventing regain but not nearly as good at causing loss in the first place. Of course exercise plus diet works better than either exercise or diet but both together work best. And then sometimes exercising just works up an appetite. p.273 What may have been the most enlightening animal experiments were carried out in the 1970s by physiologists studying weight regulation and reproduction. In these experiments, the researchers removed the ovaries from female rats. This procedure effectively serves to shut down production of the female sex hormone estrogen (technically estradiol). Without estrogen, the rats eat voraciously, dramatically decrease physical activity, and quickly grow obese. When the estrogen is replaced by infusing the hormone back into these rats, they lose the excess weight and return to their usual patterns of eating and activity. The critical point is that when researchers remove the ovaries from these rats, but restrict their diets to only what they were eating before the surgery, the rats become just as obese, just as quickly; the number of calories consumed makes little difference. Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage) by Gary Taubes http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-...nce/dp/1400033 462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271102831&sr=1-1 (Available at a library near you) -- McGowan's Drinking Guide (Translated from the original German. It's complicated, OK?) Symptom Fault Action to be Taken Drinking fails to give Mouth shut or glass Buy another pint, and satisfaction and taste: applied to wrong practice before mirror. shirt front wet part of face. Continue with as many pints as necessary until drinking technique is perfect. Taxes Citizen$ --- Government --- Corporations --- Top 1% --Where the money went Are you better off than you were 30 years ago? 10 years ago? -- - Billy Dept. of Defense budget: $663.8 billion Dept. of Health and Human Services budget: $78.4 billion Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron. - Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953 |
#24
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
Omelet wrote:
And yes, after years of playing around with low carbing, I can no longer get into Ketosis at below 20 carb grams per day... hence experimenting with the fat fast. It's also for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first Induction. Not the same thing as falling out after being on ketosis for a while and definitely does not apply to folks who were in ketosis in the first several months of their low carbing. The wrong tool for the job. It's something we've discussed on and off group before. Check out "reversal diet" in the index of the 1993/1999 editions. Dr A encountered folks who'd stay well below their CCLL for over six months, or who'd never found their CCLL but just stayed at 20, and fallen out of ketosis at 20. Some sort of long term metabolic adjustment that I call "Eskimo mode" or "Inuit mode" of switching to a slower and more efficient fat burning mode. The mention of reversal diet discusses one way to reset the metabolism after staying too low too long. It's probably the fastest way. Back in 2000 I switched to a plan like Carbohydrate Addicts Diet as a sort of mantenance strategy and I did it for a year to reset my metabolism when my metabolism made that long term adjustment. It was a lot easier but also *much* slower than the two week reversal diet. If you've been well above 50 grams per day during assorted weeks in the last 6 months this does not apply to you. |
#25
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote: If all he has to go on is exercise that can be simple. To lose a kilogram of fat run about two marathons. If he wants to use exercise to lose 5 kg per month that's running a marathon every three days. Belike that would soon cause someone to lose all their weight. The legs or feet would likely break down first though. -- The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money is good, or is it the reverse? |
#26
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
On Apr 20, 10:36*am, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Omelet wrote: And yes, after years of playing around with low carbing, I can no longer get into Ketosis at below 20 carb grams per day... hence experimenting with the fat fast. It's also for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first Induction. *Not the same thing as falling out after being on ketosis for a while and definitely does not apply to folks who were in ketosis in the first several months of their low carbing. *The wrong tool for the job. Actually, i can't find where Atkins said that it's only for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first induction, or even during induction at all. He said it was to be used by those that are so metabolically resistant to weight loss that nothing else works to get them to lose weight and only after ruling out everything else. So, while I don't see that he explicitly stated that it's OK to use to break a stall, I doubt he would have had a problem with someone who met his criteria using it for that purpose. Let's say someone has had a lot of difficulty losing weight on Atkins all along. A couple months into Atkins, they have only lost a little weight and are now stalled, meeting the Atkins definition of a stall. Per Atkins advice, they have ruled out all possible factors, eg, thyroid, medications, hidden carbs, etc. If they still cannot lose weight, I don't think he would have any problem with them doing his fat fast. It's something we've discussed on and off group before. *Check out "reversal diet" in the index of the 1993/1999 editions. *Dr A encountered folks who'd stay well below their CCLL for over six months, or who'd never found their CCLL but just stayed at 20, and fallen out of ketosis at 20. *Some sort of long term metabolic adjustment that I call "Eskimo mode" or "Inuit mode" of switching to a slower and more efficient fat burning mode. *The mention of reversal diet discusses one way to reset the metabolism after staying too low too long. *It's probably the fastest way. It's also not in his newest books, perhaps because he changed his mind about it. I can see reversing and increasing carbs leading to people having cravings return and in the end, possibly doing more harm than good. If it worked so well, you'd think it would have made it to his later editions, as he kept improving the methods. |
#27
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
Omelet wrote:
Weight is slowly dropping, not at the rate I'd like it to but it's encouraging. There's no need to have easily detected ketones in the urine or breath for stored fat to decline. Ketones suggests a faster rate is all. To the extent that low carbing works by eliminating carb and fat cravings thus making portion control doable, ketosis becomes a nice optimization. Lack of cravings is probably the single greatest advantage that low carbing has. I've not checked ketones for awhile now as I don't expect them to be there. Some people can detect it on their own breath, some can't. For those who can it's more accurate than the sticks. Possibly Dr A took this into account when he used the word "ketosis" not "ketonuria". He was sloppy with his wording on other points so I'm dubious about that. I think it works best to acknowledge his weak points and move on than to fuss either way. Wording was one of his weak points. I'll likely drop the carbs lower again once I get back to work and see if I can get back into ketosis, but only for awhile. I'll do what Lyle McDonald recommends and stay really low carb and then carb pig out once every two weeks to re-set carb metabolism. Cycling comes out of the boby building realm I think. It works very well. I happen to think it's more work than needed but how much work a tactic is is a different topic than how effective a tactic is. Cycling is highly effective. |
#28
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
In article
, " wrote: On Apr 20, 10:36*am, Doug Freyburger wrote: Omelet wrote: And yes, after years of playing around with low carbing, I can no longer get into Ketosis at below 20 carb grams per day... hence experimenting with the fat fast. It's also for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first Induction. *Not the same thing as falling out after being on ketosis for a while and definitely does not apply to folks who were in ketosis in the first several months of their low carbing. *The wrong tool for the job. Actually, i can't find where Atkins said that it's only for people who didn't get into ketosis during their first induction, or even during induction at all. He said it was to be used by those that are so metabolically resistant to weight loss that nothing else works to get them to lose weight and only after ruling out everything else. So, while I don't see that he explicitly stated that it's OK to use to break a stall, I doubt he would have had a problem with someone who met his criteria using it for that purpose. Let's say someone has had a lot of difficulty losing weight on Atkins all along. A couple months into Atkins, they have only lost a little weight and are now stalled, meeting the Atkins definition of a stall. Per Atkins advice, they have ruled out all possible factors, eg, thyroid, medications, hidden carbs, etc. If they still cannot lose weight, I don't think he would have any problem with them doing his fat fast. It's something we've discussed on and off group before. *Check out "reversal diet" in the index of the 1993/1999 editions. *Dr A encountered folks who'd stay well below their CCLL for over six months, or who'd never found their CCLL but just stayed at 20, and fallen out of ketosis at 20. *Some sort of long term metabolic adjustment that I call "Eskimo mode" or "Inuit mode" of switching to a slower and more efficient fat burning mode. *The mention of reversal diet discusses one way to reset the metabolism after staying too low too long. *It's probably the fastest way. It's also not in his newest books, perhaps because he changed his mind about it. Robert Coleman Atkins, MD Died: April 17, 2003 in New York City) I can see reversing and increasing carbs leading to people having cravings return and in the end, possibly doing more harm than good. If it worked so well, you'd think it would have made it to his later editions, as he kept improving the methods. -- - Billy Dept. of Defense budget: $663.8 billion Dept. of Health and Human Services budget: $78.4 billion Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron. - Dwight D. Eisenhower, 16 April 1953 |
#29
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
Omelet wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote: Cycling comes out of the boby building realm I think. Yes. Weight gains during bulking phases for muscle growth with later pre-contest rapid loss using carb depletion, then carb loading right before a competition at a set rate to increase muscle hardness from abnormally increased glycogen levels is a standard pre-competition strategy. There's also the fat lost aspect. Doing the system described by Atkins with natural portion control from lack of cravings (does not work for everyone, does work for far more people than believe it will work for them) leads to loss dropping to near zero as we near own real ideal weight. Our own real ideal wegith is very frequently above our chosen goal, too. But cycling does something different. Dropping into ketosis causes fat loss. Popping out of ketosis with a day or two of low fat high carb turns off/low the fat loss. The trick is this cycle does not stop when we hit or ideal weight. It can be used to go below body fat percentages normally listed as below ideal. Boby builders target extremely low body fat percentages so they use a method that works to do that. Not that this makes cycling a bad thing. Just that it attacks the issue differently. |
#30
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I am planning to loose at least 5 kg in a month
Billy wrote:
" wrote: It's also not in his newest books, perhaps because he changed his mind about it. Robert Coleman Atkins, MD Died: April 17, 2003 in New York City) His last edition is from 2002. There is since an edition by the staff of the Atkins Center. Neither edition mentions either fat fast or reversal diet. Why not is a matter of speculation. My speculations are that people abused the fat fast so he removed it and he was getting hammered over "no" carb so he removed the only reference to it that appeared in his book. Compare when the first edition of South Beach Diet was published against the last edition of DANDR. Maybe he was depicting his plan as milder because of the competition not because of the detractors. It's not hard to come up with several other potential reasons other than my preferred ones in the previous paragraph. I can see reversing and increasing carbs leading to people having cravings return and in the end, possibly doing more harm than good. If it worked so well, you'd think it would have made it to his later editions, as he kept improving the methods. That and/or his later editions were aimed at other topics. One complaint about his early editions is they were poorly worded. Another was that they covered too many eventualities. Combine those two complaints and it's easy to get to the point that readers had a hard time telling when to use any one point in the book. Dropping the rarely used tactics makes sense in that case but it certainly is not the only possible explanation. |
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