V8 on induction

"DJ Delorie" wrote in message
...

"guitarprincess" writes:
Besides. My original comment was not answering the original poster. My
post
was in response to this...

Is V8 vegetable cocktail ok during induction?

On The South Beach Diet you do drink V-8 Juice.

Does SBD have "Induction"? If so, that could get confusing.

Since you're quoting me, I get to reply...

I answered the question.

No, you answered a different question. You answered "Is V8 OK during
SBD phase 1?". The question was "Is V8 OK during Induction?"

*My* question wasn't "is V8 OK on SBD" but it was "Does SBD have a
phase with the same name as Atkins' `Induction'"? Having two diets
that both name one of their phases "Induction" yet with different
rules would cause no end of confusion on this group, because we
wouldn't know which diet someone was talking about.

I don't care which diet people follow, but I do look for clues about
WHICH diet they're following before answering. If they mention
"Induction" I don't assume they want info about SBD. Likewise, if
they mention SBD I assume they don't want info on Atkins.

*sigh*

Sheli

On Sat, 15 May 2004 20:02:05 GMT, "guitarprincess"
wrote:
Is there a really a need to nit pick everything
everyone says?

To the original poster of this thread. Drink some V8 juice with my
blessing. A 5.5 fl oz can of V8 has 7 total grams of carbohydrate,
360 mg potassium and only 35 calories. I'm sipping on a small can of
V8 right now. Yum. Learn to count and practice portion control.

IMO if you're really serious you'll have a copy of "The Ketogenic
Diet" by Lyle McDonald and Elzi Volk as a reference to whatever
lowcarb plan you (generic you) have chosen.

Now into the fray. Specific words mean specific things.
"Induction" is specific to the Atkins diet. SBD, Protein Power, CAD,
WW, et al have specific names for specific phases of their specific
eating plans. So if one asks about Induction it is a reasonable
expectation that they are discussing the Atkins diet.

http://www.titanic.kn-bremen.de/induction.html

The Rules of the Induction Diet

Your diet must contain no more than 20 grams of carbohydrate a day.
For most people, induction of ketosis/lipolysis can be achieved on
this intake. __This allows for__ approximately 3 cups of salad
vegetables (loosely packed) or 2 cups of salad plus 2/3 cup of cooked
vegetables in the below 10% carbohydrate category.
___This allows for __indicates a suggestion not a law

You are no longer on a quantitative diet. Therefore you should adjust
the quantities to your appetite. When hungry, eat the amount, that
makes you feel satisfied but not stuffed. When not hungry, eat nothing
or just a small protein snack to accompany your vitamins.
___eat until satisfied not stuffed__

You are, however, on a qualitative diet. That means, that, if the food
is not on your diet, you have absolutely none of it. Your "Just this
one tast won't hurt" rationalization is the kiss of deat on this diet.
Addicts will find this rule builds character in a hurry.
___If you can't have a measured portion and stop. Leave it alone__

Your diet will consist of pure proteins (not may of those in nature,
however), pure fats (this means butter, olive oil and mayonnaise are
permitted), and combinations of protein and fat (this is the mainstay
of your diet). Foods that are protein-and-carbohydrate or
fat-and-carbohydrate are not on this diet, because carbohydrate is not
on this diet.
___One of the many errors the good doc slipped into his books.
Carbohydrate IS on this diet. It is a controlled carb diet.

Using a carbohydrate gram counter, one could find other combinations
totaling less than 20 grams of carbohydrate. One would be using foods
like nuts, seeds, olives, avocados, cheeses, cream and sour cream,
lemon and lime juices, and low carbohydrate diet foods. Don't assume,
these foods are low, portion you are eating.
___The pick a food of choice but stay under 20 TOTAL grams of
carbohydrate per day clause___


Lee Rodgers
Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org
CHATroom http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
Message Board http://retreat.kowalk.org/forums
Low-Carb Connoisseur http://www.low-carb.com

guitarprincess wrote:

But I'll talk about the "low carb" diet I am on and all I hear is "it's not
like that on Atkins". Like people are contradicting what I am saying. It
gets frustrating. You share about your WOE and state that it is Atkins.

It also gets frustrating when I type specific things, like that I don't
do Atkins, and get directly contradicted.

If I were doing Atkins, I'd likely notice.


I understand that Atkins is a great WOE. I read the book. I carry the book
with me wherever I go. Just because the majority of people on this group are
following the Atkin's plan, doesn't mean there aren't other Low Carb diets
out there that are working just as well for others.

There are quite a number of low carb plans besides Atkins and SBD. I
could easily complain that you're ignoring Protein Power or Bernstein's
diet or CAD or even Banting by making these comments.

But that would be fairly silly of me, wouldn't it?


--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

Lee ... If you hear applause it is coming from my corner ... good job, well
put!

If I have offended anyone due to past posts it might be that "key words"
like "I don't have time" tend to make me more ballistic then rational ...

I have worked very hard on my DIET, meticulously following the guidelines
outlined by Dr. Atkins, and it has paid off handsomely, well worth the
effort, in fact it has fundamentally changed my life ... that may be why I
word things so strongly.

good luck to all of you in your "aspirations in the noisy confusion of life"

Placid
203/147/149


"Lee Rodgers" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 May 2004 20:02:05 GMT, "guitarprincess"
wrote:
Is there a really a need to nit pick everything
everyone says?

To the original poster of this thread. Drink some V8 juice with my
blessing. A 5.5 fl oz can of V8 has 7 total grams of carbohydrate,
360 mg potassium and only 35 calories. I'm sipping on a small can of
V8 right now. Yum. Learn to count and practice portion control.

IMO if you're really serious you'll have a copy of "The Ketogenic
Diet" by Lyle McDonald and Elzi Volk as a reference to whatever
lowcarb plan you (generic you) have chosen.

Now into the fray. Specific words mean specific things.
"Induction" is specific to the Atkins diet. SBD, Protein Power, CAD,
WW, et al have specific names for specific phases of their specific
eating plans. So if one asks about Induction it is a reasonable
expectation that they are discussing the Atkins diet.

http://www.titanic.kn-bremen.de/induction.html

The Rules of the Induction Diet

Your diet must contain no more than 20 grams of carbohydrate a day.
For most people, induction of ketosis/lipolysis can be achieved on
this intake. __This allows for__ approximately 3 cups of salad
vegetables (loosely packed) or 2 cups of salad plus 2/3 cup of cooked
vegetables in the below 10% carbohydrate category.
___This allows for __indicates a suggestion not a law

You are no longer on a quantitative diet. Therefore you should adjust
the quantities to your appetite. When hungry, eat the amount, that
makes you feel satisfied but not stuffed. When not hungry, eat nothing
or just a small protein snack to accompany your vitamins.
___eat until satisfied not stuffed__

You are, however, on a qualitative diet. That means, that, if the food
is not on your diet, you have absolutely none of it. Your "Just this
one tast won't hurt" rationalization is the kiss of deat on this diet.
Addicts will find this rule builds character in a hurry.
___If you can't have a measured portion and stop. Leave it alone__

Your diet will consist of pure proteins (not may of those in nature,
however), pure fats (this means butter, olive oil and mayonnaise are
permitted), and combinations of protein and fat (this is the mainstay
of your diet). Foods that are protein-and-carbohydrate or
fat-and-carbohydrate are not on this diet, because carbohydrate is not
on this diet.
___One of the many errors the good doc slipped into his books.
Carbohydrate IS on this diet. It is a controlled carb diet.

Using a carbohydrate gram counter, one could find other combinations
totaling less than 20 grams of carbohydrate. One would be using foods
like nuts, seeds, olives, avocados, cheeses, cream and sour cream,
lemon and lime juices, and low carbohydrate diet foods. Don't assume,
these foods are low, portion you are eating.
___The pick a food of choice but stay under 20 TOTAL grams of
carbohydrate per day clause___


Lee Rodgers
Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org
CHATroom http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
Message Board http://retreat.kowalk.org/forums
Low-Carb Connoisseur http://www.low-carb.com

guitarprincess wrote:

equivelant/comparable...whichever. It is the phase where you are detoxifying
your system. That's what I was trying to say.

I find them comparable in purpose also.

But... telling someone they can have V8 on SBD phase 1 and *also*
telling them that is equivalent to Atkins induction implies that they
can have V8 on Atkins induction, which is incorrect. It's not
nitpicking, it's pointing out that the information provided actually
leads to a wrong conclusion, and the reason for that is because SBD
phase 1 is *not* equivalent to Atkins.

Does it help if I use a non-Atkins example? On CAD, you can have a
small serving of brown rice with your dinner. Telling someone they can
do this on Protein Power phase 1 is incorrect though. They're both
low-carb plans, but they are different plans.

Some types of advice apply across the board, but some does not.

--
As you accelerate your food, it takes exponentially more and more energy
to increase its velocity, until you hit a limit at C. This energy has
to come from somewhere; in this case, from the food's nutritional value.
Thus, the faster the food is, the worse it gets.
-- Mark Hughes, comprehending the taste of fast food

I guess, strictly speaking, Atkins Induction and SBD Phase I are equivalent
in purpose, but not in method. The focus of both is to introduce a potato
and pancake person to a lifestyle of healthy eating, and to demonstrate the
benefits of that lifestyle.

Meanwhile, we all have to deal with a majority population that thinks
low-carbers are some sort of organized cult launching an insidious plot to
dump all our weight on them and make them fat. We'd better stick together.

And start deciding when D-Day will be. Hee hee hee!

PS: I decided today, with the increasing quantity of fresh veggies in my
fridge, I should get a food processor instead of always having to chop chop
chop! I've never used a food processor in my life, and I'm screwing up the
courage to stick a cucumber in it and see what happens. Wish me luck!

The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Jim Bard
proclaimed:
I've never used a food processor in my life, and
I'm screwing up the courage to stick a cucumber in it and see what
happens. Wish me luck!

Hehe. You'll slice and dice everything in the fridge playing with the
thing. Hope you have lots of disposable plasticware on hand.

--
revek www.geocities.com/tanirevek/LowCarb.html
NFILTER/NEWSPROXY with FAQ and sample filters available he
www.geocities.com/tanirevek/usefulfiles.html
According to my calculations the problem doesn't exist.

Jackie Patti

writes:

guitarprincess wrote:

But I'll talk about the "low carb" diet I am on and all I hear is "it's not
like that on Atkins". Like people are contradicting what I am saying. It
gets frustrating. You share about your WOE and state that it is Atkins.

It also gets frustrating when I type specific things, like that I don't
do Atkins, and get directly contradicted.

If I were doing Atkins, I'd likely notice.

Yeah, I find it amusing most of the time, but it can be a tad frustrating. The
worst, though, was when I got an e-mail -- an e-mail! -- telling me "the book
says" [something other than what I was doing]. Like there's only one "book"
and I'm a child who needs to be corrected for violating the holy diet
scripture.

But that was the extreme, and it's what happens when you go online with a bunch
of well-intentioned strangers. I know I've occasionally forgotten that there
is a substantial population of diabetics here, and I think if I were among
them, I'd find certain things annoying. This is an environment where most of
us will be happiest and gain the most benefits once we've developed thick
skins.

Daria
166/141/140
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

"Jim Bard"

writes:

I guess, strictly speaking, Atkins Induction and SBD Phase I are equivalent
in purpose, but not in method. The focus of both is to introduce a potato
and pancake person to a lifestyle of healthy eating, and to demonstrate the
benefits of that lifestyle.

Thank you, Jim, for stating this so well. I sometimes refer to "the first two
weeks" or "the early part of the diet" just to keep the confusion down. I do
know that at that point, I was so focused on *what* I was dropping from my diet
that the *how* seemed a detail. But others view it differently.

Daria
166/141/140
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

"Jim Bard" wrote

PS: I decided today, with the increasing quantity of fresh veggies in my
fridge, I should get a food processor instead of always having to chop
chop
chop! I've never used a food processor in my life, and I'm screwing up
the
courage to stick a cucumber in it and see what happens. Wish me luck!

Jim, I do this all the time, especially in the summer. It's a fast, easy way
to make a salad when I'm tired of lettuce. A favorite combination would be
something like a cucumber, a green and/or red bell pepper, a couple leaves
of kale, an handful of parsley (I remove stems first, but that's me), some
onion and a clove of garlic, and a tomato, put through the med. shredder
blade. Then I stir in some olive oil and vinegar or lemon juice and salt &
pepper to taste, sometimes some red pepper flakes or cayenne. You can put a
little bit of fresh hot pepper, such as jalapeno, through the blade also if
you like piquante. You can add or subtract veggies to meet your carb goals.
I keep thinking I should add olives, especially some of those oil-cured
Moroccan black olives I get at Trader Joe's, but I keep forgetting.

This is really good with grilled meat or poultry. I like to put some of this
in a bowl and top with a scoop of large curd cottage cheese, a sprinkle of
minced parsley, for a refreshing summer lunch.

HG