New to a diet any advice please..?

Hi People

A little bit about me....

43 Year old male unemployed since having numerous back surgery operations
and over the last few years have put on weight upto 16st 9lbs. Previously I
have never been out of work.

Typical food in a day...

Breakfast
6 weetabix
2 toasts

Lunch
2 Cheese and salad Sandwiches
Fruit

Evening meal
Fries
2 vegetable burger "thingies"
Veg

Last meal
8 weetabix
2 Toast

Lots of additional fruit and pure fruit juice (around 1ltr) in the day and
some chocolate. Other snacks sometimes consumed. Tea and coffee also.

Daily activity depending on pain management etc.....

Been on a diet for 1 week....

Breakfast
3 Weetabix

Evening Meal
Jacket potato
Veg
1 Veg type burger

Some fruit during the day and decaf coffee with sweetener.
Had a good week in terms of activity and able to use an indoor cycle (sat
upright) and cycled each day.

I have lost just over 7lbs in weight in that week.

Now I am very happy with the weight loss but how the heck do you.....

1. Keep focussed and not CONTINUOUSLY think about food.
2. Deal with hunger pangs and groans and gurgles.
3. Tell the difference between genuine hunger and just my usual craving...?

Also what would be my ideal weight...? I am 6ft tall and have a large
frame - 44" chest 36" waist.

Thanks for any help

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
s.com...
Hi People

Hi

Typical food in a day...

Breakfast
6 weetabix
2 toasts

Lunch
2 Cheese and salad Sandwiches
Fruit

Evening meal
Fries
2 vegetable burger "thingies"
Veg

Last meal
8 weetabix
2 Toast

Sounds like a lot, and a good candidate for a simple portion control If
you cut all these by 1/3 or 1/2, that would do most of the work for your
diet, without really changing what you eat. I mean, except for the total
amount, your diet is not *that* unbalanced.

Lots of additional fruit and pure fruit juice (around 1ltr) in the day and
some chocolate. Other snacks sometimes consumed. Tea and coffee also.

That's actually a lot of calories there, probably close to a full meal...

Been on a diet for 1 week....

Breakfast
3 Weetabix

That's what I meant by portion control
When did you start to feel hungry after that? Or did you still feel hungry
after eating these? 1 weetabix+soy milk is about all I can manage to eat for
breakfast. lol

Evening Meal
Jacket potato
Veg
1 Veg type burger

No lunch??? Weetabix are rather medium glycemic index. I would have expected
you to have been hungry at lunch, or even before...
Be careful with protein intake also, it looks like the veg burger was the
only source of them for the whole day. If so, it's pretty low (especially
since some veg burgers are actually more carbs than proteins).

Some fruit during the day and decaf coffee with sweetener.

They still don't come for free Maybe they're the reason for no lunch?

I have lost just over 7lbs in weight in that week.

That's a *lot*! Most of it is probably water (do you drink enough?), but
still... 3-4lbs/week is a good rate, for a man (women tend to be slower).
7lbs is not something you want to keep for several weeks.

Now I am very happy with the weight loss but how the heck do you.....

1. Keep focussed and not CONTINUOUSLY think about food.

By not starving yourself too much, and not skipping meals. If you're very
hungry, you will start thinking about food all the time. Four things are
sure ways to make you think about food all day long :
- severe caloric restriction
- cutting off completely something you really love, that can cause real
craving
- cutting off proteins (because your body *needs* them and will complain) or
cutting food that brings high long term satiety (like fats).
- skipping meals (unless you're *really* not hungry)
This can also happen if you eat only high glycemic index food (like, only
fast carbs, no fat, no protein), the food just doesn't last long...

2. Deal with hunger pangs and groans and gurgles.

See above.
You don't deal with these. You deal with slight hunger or the idea that it's
ok to be hungry a short while before starting the next meal. You're not
supposed to ignore hunger when it gets to the point where it hurts, you're
just supposed to eat (a reasonnable amount of food).
The point of dieting is not to starve yourself. It's to find a way of eating
*less* that you can keep doing for the rest of your life. Can you imagine
having hunger pangs, groans and gurgles for the rest of your life? Nope?
Then, you will have to find a middle ground between over-eating and
starving.

3. Tell the difference between genuine hunger and just my usual
craving...?

2. sounds a lot like real hunger. The usual advice is to skip one meal or
two, then what you are feeling *is* hunger. Hunger is the kind of thing you
can feel after exercising for long. Also, hunger doesn't depend on food
being in front of you, it's an internal state. Hunger comes from the belly,
craving from the mouth, if the metaphors speaks to you.

Replace the fries in the evening with veg.
You aren't getting a wide enough variety
of veg for good health. You need to
eat that instead of so much weetabix.


"Bob" wrote in message
s.com...
Hi People

A little bit about me....

43 Year old male unemployed since having numerous back surgery operations
and over the last few years have put on weight upto 16st 9lbs. Previously
I
have never been out of work.

Typical food in a day...

Breakfast
6 weetabix
2 toasts

Lunch
2 Cheese and salad Sandwiches
Fruit

Evening meal
Fries
2 vegetable burger "thingies"
Veg

Last meal
8 weetabix
2 Toast

Lots of additional fruit and pure fruit juice (around 1ltr) in the day and
some chocolate. Other snacks sometimes consumed. Tea and coffee also.

Daily activity depending on pain management etc.....

Been on a diet for 1 week....

Breakfast
3 Weetabix

Evening Meal
Jacket potato
Veg
1 Veg type burger

Some fruit during the day and decaf coffee with sweetener.
Had a good week in terms of activity and able to use an indoor cycle (sat
upright) and cycled each day.

I have lost just over 7lbs in weight in that week.

Now I am very happy with the weight loss but how the heck do you.....

1. Keep focussed and not CONTINUOUSLY think about food.
2. Deal with hunger pangs and groans and gurgles.
3. Tell the difference between genuine hunger and just my usual
craving...?

Also what would be my ideal weight...? I am 6ft tall and have a large
frame - 44" chest 36" waist.

Thanks for any help

Bob

In article , Jayjay
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:08:15 GMT, "Bob" wrote:

Pardon the American... I don't know what weeabix are....

Jayjay,
Wheatabix are small shredded whole wheat cereal squares, rougher than
Shreddies like the miniature Shreeded Wheat.

--
Diva
******
There is no substitute for the right food

"Carol Frilegh" wrote in message
...
In article , Jayjay
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:08:15 GMT, "Bob" wrote:

Pardon the American... I don't know what weeabix are....

Jayjay,
Wheatabix are small shredded whole wheat cereal squares, rougher than
Shreddies like the miniature Shreeded Wheat.

They are quite big actually. My "original weetabix" are around 19g a piece.
A normal serving is considered 37.5g (2 weetabixes). Nutrition value
(warning: French version, they might differ, and fibers are not included in
carbs here) according to package :
100g of stuff : Protein 11.8g, Carbs 68g (of which sugars 4.7g), fats 1.9g
(of which 0.6g saturated), fibers 10.g (soluble 2.6g, insoluble 7.5g).
A serving (37.5g+150ml semi-skimmed milk) : protein 9.4g, carbs 32.7g (9g
sugars), fat 3.1g (1.7g saturated), fiber 3.8g.
They're pretty high in vitamins PP, B1, B2, B9 (30-40% of daily needs per
serving) and magnesium and iron (15-30%).

As far as cereals go, they're actually pretty healthy. They're under all
brans for fibers (but all brans are sometimes *too much*), but they're still
pretty good there. They're mainly slow carbs (wholewheat), with close to no
sugars, and proteins are at a decent level. They're not loaded with
saturated fats as some brands are. But if they're really the 18g I eat, 14
of them a day is a "bit" too much (especially if you add the toasts)! Bob,
what kind of weetabix are you talking about? Is that the large 19g ones?

Hope that this reply one reply doesn't upset you good people as I thought
that I can just combine the responses so far

Sounds like a lot, and a good candidate for a simple portion control If
you cut all these by 1/3 or 1/2, that would do most of the work for your
diet, without really changing what you eat. I mean, except for the total
amount, your diet is not *that* unbalanced.

Agree that was my thought. The foods aren't "that" bad it is just excessive.
My initial weight loss does not seem "that" big to me considering the volume
of calories and sedentary lifestyle that I had compared to the fraction that
I'm now consuming and physically using. My thoughts are is that I have a two
stage approach to my weight loss...

1. Diet to get to my "ideal" weight
2. Diest as a way of life.

When stage 1 is complete I can then look to increase with sensible balanced
food and move to stage 2. My urgency is the goal that I have set of three
months to my 44th birthday and to get to my "ideal weight" - whatever that
should be...?

When did you start to feel hungry after that? Or did you still feel hungry
after eating these? 1 weetabix+soy milk is about all I can manage to eat
for
breakfast. lol

After being used to the amounts that I eat hunger (or desire / craving to
eat beyond hunger) kicks in pretty soon.

By not starving yourself too much, and not skipping meals

Might read a little silly but I'm having to relearn the difference from
hunger to that of a craving or desire to eat when not hungry...!!!

Replace the fries in the evening with veg.
You aren't getting a wide enough variety
of veg for good health. You need to
eat that instead of so much weetabix.

I hadn't listed my entire consumption re-reading my list but I always eat
around 5 to 8 potions of fruit and veg a day.

Are you working on physical therapy to help recover from your back
problems?

I have had numerous physiotherapy sessions and I'm trying hard not to go
back for another surgical procedure that is more invasive. I hope the weight
loss will help to take away some strain to the lower back as well.

Pardon the American... I don't know what weeabix are....

Please see below.....

They are quite big actually. My "original weetabix" are around 19g a piece.
A normal serving is considered 37.5g (2 weetabixes). Nutrition value
(warning: French version, they might differ, and fibers are not included in
carbs here) according to package :

Yes those are them..!!! I would eat them in my wifes mixing bowl that she
uses for baking with around a pint or so of milk a time. When I got upto 14
at a go I realised that things needed to change.
My biggest issues (I think) has become too dependent on food beyond its
neccesity exaggerated through health issues following back surgery and a
more sedentary lifesytle.

Food has become a comfort to me.

Thank you to you all for your help

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
s.com...
Agree that was my thought. The foods aren't "that" bad it is just
excessive.

That's the idea. However, you don't have to make such a drastic change. Just
reduce the portions for a week and see how things are going. If you're not
losing weight, then reduce some more. And so on.
Also be careful with the protein issue

My initial weight loss does not seem "that" big to me considering the
volume
of calories and sedentary lifestyle that I had compared to the fraction
that
I'm now consuming and physically using.

Have you ever done a diet before? If you haven't, and if you still have good
muscles under the fat, you might be among the lucky overweight people who
still have a high metabolism. I mean, you gain weight "just" because you eat
a *lot*, without compounding that with having your body on "economy" mode.
This means that you *might* be able to lose weight just by eating *normal*
sized portions. Maybe that's not the case, but if it is, you don't realize
how lucky you are If you are so blessed, the last thing you want to do is
starving yourself, lose lean mass, and kick your body into starvation mode.
That's why you want to keep the weight loss moderate.

My thoughts are is that I have a two stage approach to my weight loss...

1. Diet to get to my "ideal" weight
2. Diest as a way of life.

The problem with this approach is the transition from 1 to 2. As you lose
weight, you will need less and less calories to keep your weight. If overdo
1, you will have much lowered needs at your target weight. Besides,
psychologically, it's still the idea that "the diet is a medication that you
only have to do for a little while, even if it's unpleasant, and it will be
better at target weight". Hence, the idea you have to do 1 as fast as
possible. There are risks, like getting further cut from your feelings
(hunger, satiety) or even triggering eating disorders.
I still believe it's better to start with 2, and let your weight go down to
your ideal weight. The ideal curve would be to start eating just what you
will need to maintain your ideal weight - then you would not even need to
stabilize, it would just happen on its own.

My urgency is the goal that I have set of three
months to my 44th birthday and to get to my "ideal weight" - whatever that
should be...?

That's not an emergency. An emergency is : "if I don't lose weight within
two months, I'm going to die".
You have to stop thinking in magical number. There is really nothing special
about your birthday, if you reach your ideal weight one month before or
after, nothing really special will happen. Likewise, there is no "ideal
weight". At least, we can't compute that and come up with a number that will
be your ideal weight. Your ideal weight will be :
- whatever keeps you healthy. This means easing the back pain. This means
mosing some belly, though whether a six pack is showing or not doesn't have
much to do with health. If your BMI is under 27 [weight/(height*height), in
kg and meters], you have no real extra health risk. This means bellow
197lbs.
- whatever makes you feel well in your body.
- whatever looks good in the mirror.

After being used to the amounts that I eat hunger (or desire / craving to
eat beyond hunger) kicks in pretty soon.

That's why you should do things slowly
You can also try to do more meals. Like, a breakfast, a 10am meal and then
lunch. Instead of eating your 3 weetabix, you could just eat 2 at breakfast,
and then 1 at 10am. Or just 2 of them, and then a fruit at 10am.

Might read a little silly but I'm having to relearn the difference from
hunger to that of a craving or desire to eat when not hungry...!!!

It's not silly, how do you think most of us actually managed to grow fat in
the first place?
But you have to understand that real hunger is not something you should
fight and try to forget. It's something you have to learn to listen to
again. So, this means eating when you're hungry, and only when you're
hungry. And stopping when you're not anymore. That's why I'm concerned about
crash diets that make you extremelly hungry with quick weight loss, because
they cut yourself from these useful feelings. You can lose a lot of weight
without tuning yourself to your hunger. But it's very hard to stabilize
yourself long term that way.

I hadn't listed my entire consumption re-reading my list but I always eat
around 5 to 8 potions of fruit and veg a day.

That's why I think you are *rather* eating well (still some room to improve
of course). But all these fruits and the juices can make you fat as easily
as the weetabix can. So, that's also something you have to keep track of.
Fruits are healthy, but this doesn't mean you can't grow fat on them

I have had numerous physiotherapy sessions and I'm trying hard not to go
back for another surgical procedure that is more invasive. I hope the
weight
loss will help to take away some strain to the lower back as well.

It does for many people.
Have you asked your doctor about what kind of exercise you could do?
Exercise would help with the weight, but if it's light enough not to hurt
your back, I guess it could also improve the situation there. For instance,
is swimming (backstroke can actually relax the lower back) an option for
you? Just check with your doctor before doing anything, but if you haven't
already had a serious discussion about "sport" with him, maybe it's the time
to do it.

They are quite big actually. My "original weetabix" are around 19g a
piece.
A normal serving is considered 37.5g (2 weetabixes). Nutrition value
(warning: French version, they might differ, and fibers are not included
in
carbs here) according to package :

Yes those are them..!!! I would eat them in my wifes mixing bowl that she
uses for baking with around a pint or so of milk a time. When I got upto
14
at a go I realised that things needed to change.

OMG! That's indeed a bunch of them, half a pack of cereals a day actually.
:-o

My biggest issues (I think) has become too dependent on food beyond its
neccesity exaggerated through health issues following back surgery and a
more sedentary lifesytle.

Food has become a comfort to me.

Congrats for seeing this. Emotionnal eating a indeed a real problem, and
something people tend to dismiss. However, dealing with it is at least as
important as the diet. It will be an essential part of stabilizing your
weight and even with losing it.
The problem is that if you diet too hard and start to feel miserable, this
can trigger emotionnal eating. You feel bad because of the diet, and eating
makes you feel good, so you start craving and eating to offset the unease
brought by the diet. Then, of course, you feel bad about the over-eating,
and you can enter a whole vicious cycle.
Even if you manage to resist, you still have to go without the comfort of
food. Unless you find another way to deal with these issues, this can make
life very unpleasant.

I mean, you're 40+, unemployed, with a health problem that is disabling.
Back pain can actually mess up a whole lot of your life, it can make
sleeping a chore, it can make every day moves a painful experience... This
is a lot to deal with, and you are going to cut food, which is one source of
comfort you will lose. Maybe you're among the people for whom merely dealing
with the emotional eating would be enough. I mean, if you manage to lose
weight and stabilize "naturally" on normal portions (instead of the vastly
oversized ones you have been eating), then maybe just resolving the
emotionnal eating issue could be enough. Maybe it would be worth it to try
for a psychological approach, at least to help you along the way.

"Lictor" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in message
s.com...
Agree that was my thought. The foods aren't "that" bad it is just
excessive.

That's the idea. However, you don't have to make such a drastic change.
Just
reduce the portions for a week and see how things are going. If you're not
losing weight, then reduce some more. And so on.
Also be careful with the protein issue

Small consistant changes tend to last longer than fast drastic ones... I
couldn't go from eating 1800 calories a day to 1200 over night (a personal
example). I had to drop the calories by about 100 per week until I was at
the lower level. It wasn't such a shock to my body. Same with exercise -
people who are starting a "new life" of diet and exercise many times over do
it and burn out shortly. I started with just walking a couple miles a day,
until I felt like taking on more. It's a gradual process.

If your new plan is to eat only two meals a day, I think that's a
mistake. It's better to eat smaller amounts more frequently to avoid
excessive hunger and to keep your metabolism running more smoothly.

I don't think you're eating nearly enough protein. Are you a
vegetarian? I'd recommend trying to include some protein with each
meal. Like maybe for breakfast, have fewer Weetabix with some nuts
mixed in, or substitute some toast w/ peanut butter. Do you put milk
on the Weetabix? That will give you some protein. And where's the
dairy in your diet? How about some low-fat cheese or yogurt for some
of your snacks. You're eating mostly carbs, which will not tend to
satisfy you as long as proteins or fats. Adding more proteins and
fats to your diet will help control hunger.

Chris
262/153/ (145-150)

"Chris Braun" wrote in message
...
If your new plan is to eat only two meals a day, I think that's a
mistake. It's better to eat smaller amounts more frequently to avoid
excessive hunger and to keep your metabolism running more smoothly.


I think that you are right there. I believe that my approach to this diet is
not the best and I have learned more since posting within this group of the
need to modify my thinking on how best to balance nutrionally my daily
intake.

I don't think you're eating nearly enough protein. Are you a
vegetarian? I'd recommend trying to include some protein with each
meal.

I will eat fish and chicken, without skin, so I can't be defined as a
vegetarian, now I will add those too my diet. But I had not considered the
benefits of protein. Cottage cheese (low fat) is added to my Jacket Potato.

Thanks for your help

Bob