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Only calories matter?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 11th, 2004, 08:06 PM
Bob in CT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

On 11 Aug 2004 18:52:25 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

What an amazing find, as I am reading more about low carbing.

Obese children who were fed a low carb diet lost weight and improved
blood lipids. These children also ate 66% more calories than controls,
who ate "heart healthy" starches and whole grains. What a surprise.

Medline ID 15148063

Sondike S, Jacobson, Copperman. The ketogenic diet increases weight
loss but not cardiovascular risk: A randomized controlled trial. J
Adolescent Health Care 2000; 26: 91.

Schneider Children?s Hospital in New Hyde Park, N.Y

This study was conducted on overweight children aged 12 to 18. They
were between 20 and 100 pounds overweight. The children were split
into two groups. One group ate a conventional low-fat, carbohydrate
based "slimming" diet composed of whole grains, fruits and vegetables
with fat-free dairy products, low-fat meats, poultry and fish. Their
total intake was limited to 1,100 calories per day. The other group
ate a high-fat, low-carb diet in which they were allowed to eat as
many calories as they wanted in the form of untrimmed meat, cheese,
eggs, poultry and fish. Their carbohydrates came from two salads a day
and minimal other carbs.
RESULTS Despite consuming on average 66% more calories per day, after
12 weeks the children consuming the low-carbohydrate diet lost more
weight than those following the low-fat, high-carb plan:
Low-carb Low-fat
Calorie intake 1830 1100
Weight loss 19 lbs 8.5 lbs
HDL Increased Decreased
Triglycerides -52% -10%


As high-protein/fat diets are thought to have adverse effects on
kidneys and liver, kidney and liver functions were regularly
monitored. They were found to be unaffected by this diet.

COMMENT: Six to twelve months later, most of the low-carb dieters had
maintained their new lower weight. This study provides additional
evidence for the efficacy of a low-carb weight loss programme
specifically for the most vulnerable group ? teenagers.


I think this is a great result (and in line with every other result
regarding low carb), but unless they counted calories for the kids before
putting them on the diet then counted calories for the kids after they put
them on the diet, the calorie difference isn't really scientific.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply
  #2  
Old August 11th, 2004, 08:33 PM
Bob in CT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

On 11 Aug 2004 19:20:26 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

In article , Bob in CT wrote:
On 11 Aug 2004 18:52:25 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

What an amazing find, as I am reading more about low carbing.

Obese children who were fed a low carb diet lost weight and improved
blood lipids. These children also ate 66% more calories than controls,
who ate "heart healthy" starches and whole grains. What a surprise.

Medline ID 15148063

Sondike S, Jacobson, Copperman. The ketogenic diet increases weight
loss but not cardiovascular risk: A randomized controlled trial. J
Adolescent Health Care 2000; 26: 91.

Schneider Children?s Hospital in New Hyde Park, N.Y

This study was conducted on overweight children aged 12 to 18. They
were between 20 and 100 pounds overweight. The children were split
into two groups. One group ate a conventional low-fat, carbohydrate
based "slimming" diet composed of whole grains, fruits and vegetables
with fat-free dairy products, low-fat meats, poultry and fish. Their
total intake was limited to 1,100 calories per day. The other group
ate a high-fat, low-carb diet in which they were allowed to eat as
many calories as they wanted in the form of untrimmed meat, cheese,
eggs, poultry and fish. Their carbohydrates came from two salads a day
and minimal other carbs.
RESULTS Despite consuming on average 66% more calories per day, after
12 weeks the children consuming the low-carbohydrate diet lost more
weight than those following the low-fat, high-carb plan:
Low-carb Low-fat
Calorie intake 1830 1100
Weight loss 19 lbs 8.5 lbs
HDL Increased Decreased
Triglycerides -52% -10%


As high-protein/fat diets are thought to have adverse effects on
kidneys and liver, kidney and liver functions were regularly
monitored. They were found to be unaffected by this diet.

COMMENT: Six to twelve months later, most of the low-carb dieters had
maintained their new lower weight. This study provides additional
evidence for the efficacy of a low-carb weight loss programme
specifically for the most vulnerable group ? teenagers.


I think this is a great result (and in line with every other result
regarding low carb), but unless they counted calories for the kids
before
putting them on the diet then counted calories for the kids after they
put
them on the diet, the calorie difference isn't really scientific.


Well, these were two groups of children dieters, assigned
randomly. The low carb kids ate a lot more calories than the
conventionally dieting kids.

That low carb children could eat more, surprised me.

i


Actually, almost every study that looks at calories and low carb comes up
with the same results. However, some people are adamant (sp?) that if you
took these people and put them in chambers to measure every calorie,
there's no difference in low carb and high carb. There was one study that
used twins and did this and determined no difference between low and high
carb. However, most studies support the "low carb = more weight loss"
hypothesis. Have you seen these:

Increased Dietary Protein Modifies Glucose and Insulin Homeostasis in
Adult Women during Weight Loss (Journal Abstract) Added on: 4/29/2003
Hits: 263
From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Journal of
Nutrition, 2003: In this study, researchers placed two groups of women on
two diets, each of which was equal in calories and fat. One group was on a
high protein, low carbohydrate diet and the second was on the USDA's low
protein, high carbohydrate diet. The researchers noted that both groups
lost 16 pounds on average, but the low carbohydrate, high protein group
lost more body fat and less lean body mass than did the USDA food pyramid
group. The researchers also noted that women in the high protein group had
more stable glucose levels,lower insulin levels, and lower cholesterol
levels.


High-Protein Beats High-Carbohydrate for Weight Loss in Low-Fat Diets
(Magazine Article) Added on: 12/27/2002 Hits: 1145
From the Arizona State University and the the Doctor's Guide, 2002: This
team of researchers compared the thermogenic effects of two different low
fat diets. The first low fat diet was high in protein and the second was
high in carbohydrate. The researchers found that the study participants'
body temperature and resting energy expenditure was 100% greater after
eating high protein meals that after eating high carbohydrate meals. They
concluded that the thermogenesis that occurs after high-protein meals may
partially explain the effectiveness of high-protein diets for weight loss.

(From http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=199)

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply
  #3  
Old August 11th, 2004, 08:33 PM
Bob in CT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 11 Aug 2004 19:20:26 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

In article , Bob in CT wrote:
On 11 Aug 2004 18:52:25 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

What an amazing find, as I am reading more about low carbing.

Obese children who were fed a low carb diet lost weight and improved
blood lipids. These children also ate 66% more calories than controls,
who ate "heart healthy" starches and whole grains. What a surprise.

Medline ID 15148063

Sondike S, Jacobson, Copperman. The ketogenic diet increases weight
loss but not cardiovascular risk: A randomized controlled trial. J
Adolescent Health Care 2000; 26: 91.

Schneider Children?s Hospital in New Hyde Park, N.Y

This study was conducted on overweight children aged 12 to 18. They
were between 20 and 100 pounds overweight. The children were split
into two groups. One group ate a conventional low-fat, carbohydrate
based "slimming" diet composed of whole grains, fruits and vegetables
with fat-free dairy products, low-fat meats, poultry and fish. Their
total intake was limited to 1,100 calories per day. The other group
ate a high-fat, low-carb diet in which they were allowed to eat as
many calories as they wanted in the form of untrimmed meat, cheese,
eggs, poultry and fish. Their carbohydrates came from two salads a day
and minimal other carbs.
RESULTS Despite consuming on average 66% more calories per day, after
12 weeks the children consuming the low-carbohydrate diet lost more
weight than those following the low-fat, high-carb plan:
Low-carb Low-fat
Calorie intake 1830 1100
Weight loss 19 lbs 8.5 lbs
HDL Increased Decreased
Triglycerides -52% -10%


As high-protein/fat diets are thought to have adverse effects on
kidneys and liver, kidney and liver functions were regularly
monitored. They were found to be unaffected by this diet.

COMMENT: Six to twelve months later, most of the low-carb dieters had
maintained their new lower weight. This study provides additional
evidence for the efficacy of a low-carb weight loss programme
specifically for the most vulnerable group ? teenagers.


I think this is a great result (and in line with every other result
regarding low carb), but unless they counted calories for the kids
before
putting them on the diet then counted calories for the kids after they
put
them on the diet, the calorie difference isn't really scientific.


Well, these were two groups of children dieters, assigned
randomly. The low carb kids ate a lot more calories than the
conventionally dieting kids.

That low carb children could eat more, surprised me.

i


Actually, almost every study that looks at calories and low carb comes up
with the same results. However, some people are adamant (sp?) that if you
took these people and put them in chambers to measure every calorie,
there's no difference in low carb and high carb. There was one study that
used twins and did this and determined no difference between low and high
carb. However, most studies support the "low carb = more weight loss"
hypothesis. Have you seen these:

Increased Dietary Protein Modifies Glucose and Insulin Homeostasis in
Adult Women during Weight Loss (Journal Abstract) Added on: 4/29/2003
Hits: 263
From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Journal of
Nutrition, 2003: In this study, researchers placed two groups of women on
two diets, each of which was equal in calories and fat. One group was on a
high protein, low carbohydrate diet and the second was on the USDA's low
protein, high carbohydrate diet. The researchers noted that both groups
lost 16 pounds on average, but the low carbohydrate, high protein group
lost more body fat and less lean body mass than did the USDA food pyramid
group. The researchers also noted that women in the high protein group had
more stable glucose levels,lower insulin levels, and lower cholesterol
levels.


High-Protein Beats High-Carbohydrate for Weight Loss in Low-Fat Diets
(Magazine Article) Added on: 12/27/2002 Hits: 1145
From the Arizona State University and the the Doctor's Guide, 2002: This
team of researchers compared the thermogenic effects of two different low
fat diets. The first low fat diet was high in protein and the second was
high in carbohydrate. The researchers found that the study participants'
body temperature and resting energy expenditure was 100% greater after
eating high protein meals that after eating high carbohydrate meals. They
concluded that the thermogenesis that occurs after high-protein meals may
partially explain the effectiveness of high-protein diets for weight loss.

(From http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=199)

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply
  #4  
Old August 11th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Bob in CT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

On 11 Aug 2004 19:42:20 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

In article , Bob in CT wrote:
Increased Dietary Protein Modifies Glucose and Insulin Homeostasis in
Adult Women during Weight Loss (Journal Abstract) Added on: 4/29/2003
Hits: 263
From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Journal of
Nutrition, 2003: In this study, researchers placed two groups of women
on
two diets, each of which was equal in calories and fat. One group was
on a
high protein, low carbohydrate diet and the second was on the USDA's low
protein, high carbohydrate diet. The researchers noted that both groups
lost 16 pounds on average, but the low carbohydrate, high protein group
lost more body fat and less lean body mass than did the USDA food
pyramid
group. The researchers also noted that women in the high protein group
had
more stable glucose levels,lower insulin levels, and lower cholesterol
levels.


interesting


High-Protein Beats High-Carbohydrate for Weight Loss in Low-Fat Diets
(Magazine Article) Added on: 12/27/2002 Hits: 1145
From the Arizona State University and the the Doctor's Guide, 2002:
This
team of researchers compared the thermogenic effects of two different
low
fat diets. The first low fat diet was high in protein and the second was
high in carbohydrate. The researchers found that the study participants'
body temperature and resting energy expenditure was 100% greater after



they had 100% greater body TEMPERATURE???

like, 194 degrees fahrenheit as opposed to normal 97????

they were very "well done" by that time, huh... Yummy, well done, low
carb dieters. Were they served with gravy?

must be some mistake somewhere.

i


These are interpreted by the lady who keeps up the site, but she provides
the links so that you can go read the actual study. I think she means
that there was an elevated temperature and 100% greater resting energy
expenditure.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply
  #5  
Old August 11th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Bob in CT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

On 11 Aug 2004 19:42:20 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

In article , Bob in CT wrote:
Increased Dietary Protein Modifies Glucose and Insulin Homeostasis in
Adult Women during Weight Loss (Journal Abstract) Added on: 4/29/2003
Hits: 263
From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Journal of
Nutrition, 2003: In this study, researchers placed two groups of women
on
two diets, each of which was equal in calories and fat. One group was
on a
high protein, low carbohydrate diet and the second was on the USDA's low
protein, high carbohydrate diet. The researchers noted that both groups
lost 16 pounds on average, but the low carbohydrate, high protein group
lost more body fat and less lean body mass than did the USDA food
pyramid
group. The researchers also noted that women in the high protein group
had
more stable glucose levels,lower insulin levels, and lower cholesterol
levels.


interesting


High-Protein Beats High-Carbohydrate for Weight Loss in Low-Fat Diets
(Magazine Article) Added on: 12/27/2002 Hits: 1145
From the Arizona State University and the the Doctor's Guide, 2002:
This
team of researchers compared the thermogenic effects of two different
low
fat diets. The first low fat diet was high in protein and the second was
high in carbohydrate. The researchers found that the study participants'
body temperature and resting energy expenditure was 100% greater after



they had 100% greater body TEMPERATURE???

like, 194 degrees fahrenheit as opposed to normal 97????

they were very "well done" by that time, huh... Yummy, well done, low
carb dieters. Were they served with gravy?

must be some mistake somewhere.

i


These are interpreted by the lady who keeps up the site, but she provides
the links so that you can go read the actual study. I think she means
that there was an elevated temperature and 100% greater resting energy
expenditure.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply
  #6  
Old August 11th, 2004, 10:31 PM
Tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

Based on my own experience. I did notice right away that on the lo-carb
diet, I wasn't feeling cold like I had been on regular low fat/low cal.
diets. Perhaps there is a metabolic advantage with higher protein.
Tom
210/180/180
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ignoramus5937" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob in CT wrote:
Increased Dietary Protein Modifies Glucose and Insulin Homeostasis in
Adult Women during Weight Loss (Journal Abstract) Added on: 4/29/2003
Hits: 263
From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Journal of
Nutrition, 2003: In this study, researchers placed two groups of women

on
two diets, each of which was equal in calories and fat. One group was on

a
high protein, low carbohydrate diet and the second was on the USDA's low
protein, high carbohydrate diet. The researchers noted that both groups
lost 16 pounds on average, but the low carbohydrate, high protein group
lost more body fat and less lean body mass than did the USDA food

pyramid
group. The researchers also noted that women in the high protein group

had
more stable glucose levels,lower insulin levels, and lower cholesterol
levels.


interesting


High-Protein Beats High-Carbohydrate for Weight Loss in Low-Fat Diets
(Magazine Article) Added on: 12/27/2002 Hits: 1145
From the Arizona State University and the the Doctor's Guide, 2002:

This
team of researchers compared the thermogenic effects of two different

low
fat diets. The first low fat diet was high in protein and the second was
high in carbohydrate. The researchers found that the study participants'
body temperature and resting energy expenditure was 100% greater after



they had 100% greater body TEMPERATURE???

like, 194 degrees fahrenheit as opposed to normal 97????

they were very "well done" by that time, huh... Yummy, well done, low
carb dieters. Were they served with gravy?

must be some mistake somewhere.

i

eating high protein meals that after eating high carbohydrate meals.

They
concluded that the thermogenesis that occurs after high-protein meals

may
partially explain the effectiveness of high-protein diets for weight

loss.

(From http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=199)



  #7  
Old August 11th, 2004, 11:50 PM
julianne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

How many children were in the study? Did it say anywhere?

I believe almost everyone could do with fewer carbs than the typical US diet
offers. I am also of the mindset that anything can be done to extreme.

I look forward to more information being developed about the glycemic index.
It seems to me that the type of carbs one chooses are more important than
the source of carbs. And, I am always amazed at how some foods stack up!
Bananas - high glycemic index. Canteloupe - low. Snickers, because of the
nuts are interestingly low. Whole grains and brown rice do not fair much
better than their pale counterparts.

Off to make a low carb dinner with just enough carbs to keep me happy and
not enough to cause my blood sugar to swing.

j
"Ignoramus5937" wrote in message
...
What an amazing find, as I am reading more about low carbing.

Obese children who were fed a low carb diet lost weight and improved
blood lipids. These children also ate 66% more calories than controls,
who ate "heart healthy" starches and whole grains. What a surprise.

Medline ID 15148063

Sondike S, Jacobson, Copperman. The ketogenic diet increases weight
loss but not cardiovascular risk: A randomized controlled trial. J
Adolescent Health Care 2000; 26: 91.

Schneider Children?s Hospital in New Hyde Park, N.Y

This study was conducted on overweight children aged 12 to 18. They
were between 20 and 100 pounds overweight. The children were split
into two groups. One group ate a conventional low-fat, carbohydrate
based "slimming" diet composed of whole grains, fruits and vegetables
with fat-free dairy products, low-fat meats, poultry and fish. Their
total intake was limited to 1,100 calories per day. The other group
ate a high-fat, low-carb diet in which they were allowed to eat as
many calories as they wanted in the form of untrimmed meat, cheese,
eggs, poultry and fish. Their carbohydrates came from two salads a day
and minimal other carbs.
RESULTS Despite consuming on average 66% more calories per day, after
12 weeks the children consuming the low-carbohydrate diet lost more
weight than those following the low-fat, high-carb plan:
Low-carb Low-fat
Calorie intake 1830 1100
Weight loss 19 lbs 8.5 lbs
HDL Increased Decreased
Triglycerides -52% -10%


As high-protein/fat diets are thought to have adverse effects on
kidneys and liver, kidney and liver functions were regularly
monitored. They were found to be unaffected by this diet.

COMMENT: Six to twelve months later, most of the low-carb dieters had
maintained their new lower weight. This study provides additional
evidence for the efficacy of a low-carb weight loss programme
specifically for the most vulnerable group ? teenagers.



  #8  
Old August 12th, 2004, 01:07 AM
revek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

Ignoramus5937 generously shared with us this little ditty:
In article , Bob in CT
wrote:
Well, these were two groups of children dieters, assigned
randomly. The low carb kids ate a lot more calories than the
conventionally dieting kids.

That low carb children could eat more, surprised me.


Why?

--
revek
The probability of forgetting something is directly proportional to
..... to .... uh ....



  #9  
Old August 12th, 2004, 01:07 AM
revek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ignoramus5937 generously shared with us this little ditty:
In article , Bob in CT
wrote:
Well, these were two groups of children dieters, assigned
randomly. The low carb kids ate a lot more calories than the
conventionally dieting kids.

That low carb children could eat more, surprised me.


Why?

--
revek
The probability of forgetting something is directly proportional to
..... to .... uh ....



  #10  
Old August 12th, 2004, 01:08 AM
jbuch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Only calories matter?

Bob in CT wrote:

On 11 Aug 2004 19:20:26 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

In article , Bob in CT wrote:

On 11 Aug 2004 18:52:25 GMT, Ignoramus5937
wrote:

What an amazing find, as I am reading more about low carbing.

Obese children who were fed a low carb diet lost weight and improved
blood lipids. These children also ate 66% more calories than controls,
who ate "heart healthy" starches and whole grains. What a surprise.

Medline ID 15148063

Sondike S, Jacobson, Copperman. The ketogenic diet increases weight
loss but not cardiovascular risk: A randomized controlled trial. J
Adolescent Health Care 2000; 26: 91.

Schneider Children?s Hospital in New Hyde Park, N.Y

This study was conducted on overweight children aged 12 to 18. They
were between 20 and 100 pounds overweight. The children were split
into two groups. One group ate a conventional low-fat, carbohydrate
based "slimming" diet composed of whole grains, fruits and vegetables
with fat-free dairy products, low-fat meats, poultry and fish. Their
total intake was limited to 1,100 calories per day. The other group
ate a high-fat, low-carb diet in which they were allowed to eat as
many calories as they wanted in the form of untrimmed meat, cheese,
eggs, poultry and fish. Their carbohydrates came from two salads a day
and minimal other carbs.
RESULTS Despite consuming on average 66% more calories per day, after
12 weeks the children consuming the low-carbohydrate diet lost more
weight than those following the low-fat, high-carb plan:
Low-carb Low-fat
Calorie intake 1830 1100
Weight loss 19 lbs 8.5 lbs
HDL Increased Decreased
Triglycerides -52% -10%


As high-protein/fat diets are thought to have adverse effects on
kidneys and liver, kidney and liver functions were regularly
monitored. They were found to be unaffected by this diet.

COMMENT: Six to twelve months later, most of the low-carb dieters had
maintained their new lower weight. This study provides additional
evidence for the efficacy of a low-carb weight loss programme
specifically for the most vulnerable group ? teenagers.


I think this is a great result (and in line with every other result
regarding low carb), but unless they counted calories for the kids
before
putting them on the diet then counted calories for the kids after
they put
them on the diet, the calorie difference isn't really scientific.


Well, these were two groups of children dieters, assigned
randomly. The low carb kids ate a lot more calories than the
conventionally dieting kids.

That low carb children could eat more, surprised me.

i



Actually, almost every study that looks at calories and low carb comes
up with the same results. However, some people are adamant (sp?) that
if you took these people and put them in chambers to measure every
calorie, there's no difference in low carb and high carb. There was one
study that used twins and did this and determined no difference between
low and high carb. However, most studies support the "low carb = more
weight loss" hypothesis. Have you seen these:

Increased Dietary Protein Modifies Glucose and Insulin Homeostasis in
Adult Women during Weight Loss (Journal Abstract) Added on: 4/29/2003
Hits: 263
From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Journal of
Nutrition, 2003: In this study, researchers placed two groups of women
on two diets, each of which was equal in calories and fat. One group was
on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet and the second was on the
USDA's low protein, high carbohydrate diet. The researchers noted that
both groups lost 16 pounds on average, but the low carbohydrate, high
protein group lost more body fat and less lean body mass than did the
USDA food pyramid group. The researchers also noted that women in the
high protein group had more stable glucose levels,lower insulin levels,
and lower cholesterol levels.


High-Protein Beats High-Carbohydrate for Weight Loss in Low-Fat Diets
(Magazine Article) Added on: 12/27/2002 Hits: 1145
From the Arizona State University and the the Doctor's Guide, 2002:
This team of researchers compared the thermogenic effects of two
different low fat diets. The first low fat diet was high in protein and
the second was high in carbohydrate. The researchers found that the
study participants' body temperature and resting energy expenditure was
100% greater after eating high protein meals that after eating high
carbohydrate meals. They concluded that the thermogenesis that occurs
after high-protein meals may partially explain the effectiveness of
high-protein diets for weight loss.

(From http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=199)


Sounds like it should have been stated as:

The researchers found that the study participants' body temperature was
greater after eating high protein meals compared to those eating high
carb meals. They also found that after eating high protein meals the
resting energy expenditure was 100% greater for the low carb group than
the high carb group.

The temptation to save a few words in an abstract created a potential
for confusion.

Nice article....

Thanks for drawing attention to it.

Jim


 




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