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#11
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For Dogman
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:37:36 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: [...] The US is like an irresponsible family who has survived by getting more and more credit cards whenever it needed money, and it has now reached the point where it can't both survive and keep up the interest payments on those cards. Its credit rating is too low to allow issue of more cards, and the debt collectors are banging on the door. Another total lie. Actually, bond BUYERS are what are waiting at the door because they know the USA is still the safest, most secure place for their money. Gee, I wonder who knows more. The folks actually buying those bonds at the lowest interest rates in history, or you who I'll bet doesn't have a pot to pee in. Nice reply, Trader. But we're both wasting our time with these ignorant loons. There's just no "there" there. -- Dogman |
#13
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For Dogman
On 16/10/2011 3:06 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:37:36 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: [...] The US is like an irresponsible family who has survived by getting more and more credit cards whenever it needed money, and it has now reached the point where it can't both survive and keep up the interest payments on those cards. Its credit rating is too low to allow issue of more cards, and the debt collectors are banging on the door. Another total lie. Actually, bond BUYERS are what are waiting at the door because they know the USA is still the safest, most secure place for their money. Gee, I wonder who knows more. The folks actually buying those bonds at the lowest interest rates in history, or you who I'll bet doesn't have a pot to pee in. Nice reply, Trader. You missed out a word. Nice clueless reply, Trader. I fixed it for you. |
#14
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For Dogman
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 04:06:15 +1000, Elmo
wrote: On 16/10/2011 3:06 AM, Dogman wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:37:36 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: [...] Nice reply, Trader. But we're both wasting our time with these ignorant loons. There's just no "there" there. You missed out a word. Nice clueless reply, Trader. I fixed it for you. I "missed out a word"??? Actually, nimrod, you just proved my point. Thanks! -- Dogman |
#15
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For Dogman
On Oct 15, 2:06*pm, Elmo wrote:
On 16/10/2011 12:37 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 3:51 am, *wrote: On 15/10/2011 1:30 PM, Dogman wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:17:36 +1000, wrote: On 15/10/2011 7:14 AM, Patricia Martin Steward wrote: Drudge is a poseur. Drudge has nothing to do with it, he didn't write the book, he just commented on it. It is only one of thousands of books and articles that are central to the decline of the US. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening but it won't change the inevitable. The USA is kaput! Its death throes might last for a year or two, but is is already beyond resuscitation. The most it can hope for is to recover to a third world status, and that is a very slim chance. It will never be a superpower again. It is bankrupt, fiscally and morally, and there is no chapter eleven for countries. We are already getting an influx of Americans arriving here, they have seen the inevitable and are jumping ship while what dollars they have still retain some value. Since your economy is so closely linked to ours, what do you think will happen to Canada should we actually become "kaput"? Hmmmmm? -- Dogman Unfortunately we will get dragged down with you, as will much of the western world. Thankfully as result of the first US caused GFC, most of the western world is prepared and will not be dragged as irrevocably low as the US. Instead of the usual liberal emotion, let's look at the actual facts about govt debt levels in *countries around the world. *Here's the list of countries with their debt to GDP ratios: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt Number one is Japan, with debt at 200% of GDP. Then we have Greece at 142%, Iceland at 126%, Italy at 120%, Belgium at 100%, Ireland at 97%, Portugal at 93%, and CANADA at 84%, France at 82%....... The USA is at 62%. *So, if we are on the road to financial ruin, Canada and a whole lot of other countries are already well ahead of us. Yes, some other countries are in poor fiscal condition as well, but most have a better chance of recovery. It doesn't change what is happening in the US. Those figures list Uganda, Algeria etc., at a much lower debt ratio than most countries, yet people are starving to death there, or dying of readily treatable diseases. Makes it pretty meaningless as a yardstick.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But we're not talking about starvation or disease troll. We're talking about your bogus claim that the US has caused a worldwide financial crisis because it's broke and can't pay it's debts. I just showed you that US govt debt as a percentage of GDP is less than your beloved Canada. It's also 1/3 that of Japan. Debt realtive to GDP is the most relevant measure of whether a country has an economy that can support it's debt level. This is typical with loons like you. All emotion and no facts. And then when the facts expose that what you're claiming is totally bogus, instead of learning from it, you just move off topic with more nonsense. Isn't it time for you to go to the next Wall St protest? You're clearly as well grounded in economics and critical thinking as they are. are. Arguing about disease in |
#16
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For Dogman
On Oct 15, 11:34*am, Billy wrote:
In article , *Elmo wrote: http://www.drudgereport.com/flashpb.htm This is an "Off-Topic" post. Please take it else where. -- - Billy And then the village idiot and hypocrite chimes in, complaining about off topic posts when he ends every single post he makes here with a political rant. If you can do it, guess everyone can. |
#17
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For Dogman
On 16/10/2011 5:33 AM, wrote:
On Oct 15, 2:06 pm, wrote: On 16/10/2011 12:37 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 3:51 am, wrote: On 15/10/2011 1:30 PM, Dogman wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:17:36 +1000, wrote: On 15/10/2011 7:14 AM, Patricia Martin Steward wrote: Drudge is a poseur. Drudge has nothing to do with it, he didn't write the book, he just commented on it. It is only one of thousands of books and articles that are central to the decline of the US. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening but it won't change the inevitable. The USA is kaput! Its death throes might last for a year or two, but is is already beyond resuscitation. The most it can hope for is to recover to a third world status, and that is a very slim chance. It will never be a superpower again. It is bankrupt, fiscally and morally, and there is no chapter eleven for countries. We are already getting an influx of Americans arriving here, they have seen the inevitable and are jumping ship while what dollars they have still retain some value. Since your economy is so closely linked to ours, what do you think will happen to Canada should we actually become "kaput"? Hmmmmm? -- Dogman Unfortunately we will get dragged down with you, as will much of the western world. Thankfully as result of the first US caused GFC, most of the western world is prepared and will not be dragged as irrevocably low as the US. Instead of the usual liberal emotion, let's look at the actual facts about govt debt levels in countries around the world. Here's the list of countries with their debt to GDP ratios: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt Number one is Japan, with debt at 200% of GDP. Then we have Greece at 142%, Iceland at 126%, Italy at 120%, Belgium at 100%, Ireland at 97%, Portugal at 93%, and CANADA at 84%, France at 82%....... The USA is at 62%. So, if we are on the road to financial ruin, Canada and a whole lot of other countries are already well ahead of us. Yes, some other countries are in poor fiscal condition as well, but most have a better chance of recovery. It doesn't change what is happening in the US. Those figures list Uganda, Algeria etc., at a much lower debt ratio than most countries, yet people are starving to death there, or dying of readily treatable diseases. Makes it pretty meaningless as a yardstick.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But we're not talking about starvation or disease troll. We're talking about your bogus claim that the US has caused a worldwide financial crisis because it's broke and can't pay it's debts. The United States Senate accepts that the GFC was US caused. From Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_...8%E2%80%932009 And before you say that Wiki is unreliable, follow the links in that article. They link to some very reliable sources. The late-2000s financial crisis (often called the Global Recession, Global Financial Crisis or the Credit Crunch) is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1] It resulted in the collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market had also suffered, resulting in numerous evictions, foreclosures and prolonged vacancies. It contributed to the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in the trillions of U.S. dollars, and a significant decline in economic activity, leading to a severe global economic recession in 2008.[2] The financial crisis was triggered by a liquidity shortfall in the United States banking system in 2008.[3] The collapse of the U.S. housing bubble, which peaked in 2007, caused the values of securities tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, damaging financial institutions globally.[4] Questions regarding bank solvency, declines in credit availability and damaged investor confidence had an impact on global stock markets, where securities suffered large losses during 2008 and early 2009. Economies worldwide slowed during this period, as credit tightened and international trade declined.[5] Governments and central banks responded with unprecedented fiscal stimulus, monetary policy expansion and institutional bailouts. Although there have been aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between late-2008 and mid-2009.[6][7][8] While many causes for the financial crisis have been suggested, with varying weight assigned by experts,[9] the United States Senate issuing the Levin–Coburn Report found “that the crisis was not a natural disaster, but the result of high risk, complex financial products;[10] undisclosed conflicts of interest; and the failure of regulators, the credit rating agencies, and the market itself [11] to rein in the excesses of Wall Street.” [12] |
#18
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For Dogman
On Oct 16, 1:12*am, Elmo wrote:
On 16/10/2011 5:33 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 2:06 pm, *wrote: On 16/10/2011 12:37 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 3:51 am, * *wrote: On 15/10/2011 1:30 PM, Dogman wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:17:36 +1000, wrote: On 15/10/2011 7:14 AM, Patricia Martin Steward wrote: Drudge is a poseur. Drudge has nothing to do with it, he didn't write the book, he just commented on it. It is only one of thousands of books and articles that are central to the decline of the US. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening but it won't change the inevitable. The USA is kaput! Its death throes might last for a year or two, but is is already beyond resuscitation. The most it can hope for is to recover to a third world status, and that is a very slim chance. It will never be a superpower again. It is bankrupt, fiscally and morally, and there is no chapter eleven for countries. We are already getting an influx of Americans arriving here, they have seen the inevitable and are jumping ship while what dollars they have still retain some value. Since your economy is so closely linked to ours, what do you think will happen to Canada should we actually become "kaput"? Hmmmmm? -- Dogman Unfortunately we will get dragged down with you, as will much of the western world. Thankfully as result of the first US caused GFC, most of the western world is prepared and will not be dragged as irrevocably low as the US. Instead of the usual liberal emotion, let's look at the actual facts about govt debt levels in *countries around the world. *Here's the list of countries with their debt to GDP ratios: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt Number one is Japan, with debt at 200% of GDP. Then we have Greece at 142%, Iceland at 126%, Italy at 120%, Belgium at 100%, Ireland at 97%, Portugal at 93%, and CANADA at 84%, France at 82%....... The USA is at 62%. *So, if we are on the road to financial ruin, Canada and a whole lot of other countries are already well ahead of us. Yes, some other countries are in poor fiscal condition as well, but most have a better chance of recovery. It doesn't change what is happening in the US. Those figures list Uganda, Algeria etc., at a much lower debt ratio than most countries, yet people are starving to death there, or dying of readily treatable diseases. Makes it pretty meaningless as a yardstick.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But we're not talking about starvation or disease troll. We're talking about your bogus claim that the US has caused a worldwide financial crisis because it's broke and can't pay it's debts. The United States Senate accepts that the GFC was US caused. *From Wiki.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_..._2008%E2%80%93... The above link does not work. Here's what Wiki has to say about the Irish financial crisis: "Background and causes: The Irish economy expanded rapidly during the Celtic Tiger years (1997– 2007) due to a low corporate tax rate, low ECB interest rates, and other factors. This led to an expansion of credit and included a property bubble which petered out in 2007. Irish banks, already over- exposed to the Irish property market, came under severe pressure in September 2008 due to the global financial crisis of 2007–2010" In other words, Ireland experienced similar economic circumstances to what happened in the USA, ie a property bubble driven by low interest rates. Top that off with a govt mired in debt from reckless spending. Yet, being a clueless America basher, you blame the USA How about Greece? From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/02/...nda/index.html "So what's the problem in Greece? Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic downturn struck. This whisked away a curtain of partly fiddled statistics to reveal debt levels and deficits that exceeded limits set by the eurozone. How big are these debts? National debt, put at €300 billion ($413.6 billion), is bigger than the country's economy, with some estimates predicting it will reach 120 percent of gross domestic product in 2010. The country's deficit -- how much more it spends than it takes in -- is 12.7 percent." Clearly this has nothing to do with anything the USA did. Greece's national debt was over 100% of it's GDP as early as 2000, 7 years before anything went wrong in the USA. Greece simply handed out money to lazy people who don't want to work. If anything, the USA has been a tremendous help to Greece because for 50 years we kept the Russians out of there with OUR defense spending. That saved them trillions in spending and should have helped them economically. It would have too, had they not ****ed it away on socialist programs. And before you say that Wiki is unreliable, follow the links in that article. They link to some very reliable sources. The late-2000s financial crisis (often called the Global Recession, Global Financial Crisis or the Credit Crunch) is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1] It resulted in the collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market had also suffered, resulting in numerous evictions, foreclosures and prolonged vacancies. It contributed to the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in the trillions of U.S. dollars, and a significant decline in economic activity, leading to a severe global economic recession in 2008.[2] The financial crisis was triggered by a liquidity shortfall in the United States banking system in 2008.[3] The collapse of the U.S. housing bubble, which peaked in 2007, caused the values of securities tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, damaging financial institutions globally. Sure, some banks internationally that had too much exposure to certain US sectors were damaged. But they were damaged even more by doing exactly the same things in their own country, like in the examples of Ireland, Greece and Italy. [4] Questions regarding bank solvency, declines in credit availability and damaged investor confidence had an impact on global stock markets, where securities suffered large losses during 2008 and early 2009. Economies worldwide slowed during this period, as credit tightened and international trade declined.[5] Governments and central banks responded with unprecedented fiscal stimulus, monetary policy expansion and institutional bailouts. Although there have been aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between late-2008 and mid-2009.[6][7][8] While many causes for the financial crisis have been suggested, with varying weight assigned by experts,[9] the United States Senate issuing the Levin–Coburn Report found “that the crisis was not a natural disaster, but the result of high risk, complex financial products;[10] undisclosed conflicts of interest; and the failure of regulators, the credit rating agencies, and the market itself [11] to rein in the excesses of Wall Street.” [12]- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I like it when you prove yourself wrong. Your own source above says many causes have been suggested. And to use the US Senate that was directly involved in the financial problems here in the USA as a source is particularly silly. The Congress has an approval rating of about 13% because everyone knows that most of them are a lying bunch of irresponsible skunks. And the crisis the senate report is talking about is clearly the crisis in the USA. Show us where it says the USA is responsible for what is happening in Ireland or Greece, with govts mired in debt. What's another example of what's going on internationally that has nothing to do with the USA? The current bubble that is starting to deflate is in China. They have a hugely inflated real estate market driven by speculation and people buying all kinds of goods they can't afford. When that bubble bursts, I suppose you'll be right here blaming that on the USA too. |
#19
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For Dogman
On 16/10/2011 10:02 PM, wrote:
On Oct 16, 1:12 am, wrote: On 16/10/2011 5:33 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 2:06 pm, wrote: On 16/10/2011 12:37 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 3:51 am, wrote: On 15/10/2011 1:30 PM, Dogman wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:17:36 +1000, wrote: On 15/10/2011 7:14 AM, Patricia Martin Steward wrote: Drudge is a poseur. Drudge has nothing to do with it, he didn't write the book, he just commented on it. It is only one of thousands of books and articles that are central to the decline of the US. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening but it won't change the inevitable. The USA is kaput! Its death throes might last for a year or two, but is is already beyond resuscitation. The most it can hope for is to recover to a third world status, and that is a very slim chance. It will never be a superpower again. It is bankrupt, fiscally and morally, and there is no chapter eleven for countries. We are already getting an influx of Americans arriving here, they have seen the inevitable and are jumping ship while what dollars they have still retain some value. Since your economy is so closely linked to ours, what do you think will happen to Canada should we actually become "kaput"? Hmmmmm? -- Dogman Unfortunately we will get dragged down with you, as will much of the western world. Thankfully as result of the first US caused GFC, most of the western world is prepared and will not be dragged as irrevocably low as the US. Instead of the usual liberal emotion, let's look at the actual facts about govt debt levels in countries around the world. Here's the list of countries with their debt to GDP ratios: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt Number one is Japan, with debt at 200% of GDP. Then we have Greece at 142%, Iceland at 126%, Italy at 120%, Belgium at 100%, Ireland at 97%, Portugal at 93%, and CANADA at 84%, France at 82%....... The USA is at 62%. So, if we are on the road to financial ruin, Canada and a whole lot of other countries are already well ahead of us. Yes, some other countries are in poor fiscal condition as well, but most have a better chance of recovery. It doesn't change what is happening in the US. Those figures list Uganda, Algeria etc., at a much lower debt ratio than most countries, yet people are starving to death there, or dying of readily treatable diseases. Makes it pretty meaningless as a yardstick.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But we're not talking about starvation or disease troll. We're talking about your bogus claim that the US has caused a worldwide financial crisis because it's broke and can't pay it's debts. The United States Senate accepts that the GFC was US caused. From Wiki.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_..._2008%E2%80%93... The above link does not work. It does if you use some thought - it isn't hard to search for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_...8%E2%80%932009 Here's what Wiki has to say about the Irish financial crisis: "Background and causes: The Irish economy expanded rapidly during the Celtic Tiger years (1997– 2007) due to a low corporate tax rate, low ECB interest rates, and other factors. This led to an expansion of credit and included a property bubble which petered out in 2007. Irish banks, already over- exposed to the Irish property market, came under severe pressure in September 2008 due to the global financial crisis of 2007–2010" In other words, Ireland experienced similar economic circumstances to what happened in the USA, ie a property bubble driven by low interest rates. Top that off with a govt mired in debt from reckless spending. Yet, being a clueless America basher, you blame the USA How about Greece? From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/02/...nda/index.html "So what's the problem in Greece? Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic downturn struck. This whisked away a curtain of partly fiddled statistics to reveal debt levels and deficits that exceeded limits set by the eurozone. How big are these debts? National debt, put at €300 billion ($413.6 billion), is bigger than the country's economy, with some estimates predicting it will reach 120 percent of gross domestic product in 2010. The country's deficit -- how much more it spends than it takes in -- is 12.7 percent." Clearly this has nothing to do with anything the USA did. Greece's national debt was over 100% of it's GDP as early as 2000, 7 years before anything went wrong in the USA. Greece simply handed out money to lazy people who don't want to work. If anything, the USA has been a tremendous help to Greece because for 50 years we kept the Russians out of there with OUR defense spending. That saved them trillions in spending and should have helped them economically. It would have too, had they not ****ed it away on socialist programs. And before you say that Wiki is unreliable, follow the links in that article. They link to some very reliable sources. The late-2000s financial crisis (often called the Global Recession, Global Financial Crisis or the Credit Crunch) is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1] It resulted in the collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market had also suffered, resulting in numerous evictions, foreclosures and prolonged vacancies. It contributed to the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in the trillions of U.S. dollars, and a significant decline in economic activity, leading to a severe global economic recession in 2008.[2] The financial crisis was triggered by a liquidity shortfall in the United States banking system in 2008.[3] The collapse of the U.S. housing bubble, which peaked in 2007, caused the values of securities tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, damaging financial institutions globally. Sure, some banks internationally that had too much exposure to certain US sectors were damaged. But they were damaged even more by doing exactly the same things in their own country, like in the examples of Ireland, Greece and Italy. [4] Questions regarding bank solvency, declines in credit availability and damaged investor confidence had an impact on global stock markets, where securities suffered large losses during 2008 and early 2009. Economies worldwide slowed during this period, as credit tightened and international trade declined.[5] Governments and central banks responded with unprecedented fiscal stimulus, monetary policy expansion and institutional bailouts. Although there have been aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between late-2008 and mid-2009.[6][7][8] While many causes for the financial crisis have been suggested, with varying weight assigned by experts,[9] the United States Senate issuing the Levin–Coburn Report found “that the crisis was not a natural disaster, but the result of high risk, complex financial products;[10] undisclosed conflicts of interest; and the failure of regulators, the credit rating agencies, and the market itself [11] to rein in the excesses of Wall Street.” [12]- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I like it when you prove yourself wrong. I haven't done that, all I have done is show how your own government thinks that people like you are wrong. Your own source above says many causes have been suggested. And to use the US Senate that was directly involved in the financial problems here in the USA as a source is particularly silly. The Congress has an approval rating of about 13% because everyone knows that most of them are a lying bunch of irresponsible skunks. No, everyone does not know that. Only total fools would make such a ridiculous claim. The entire Congress is lying? Your president is lying? Your top economists who support the opinion of your government in their books, papers and articles are all lying? I think that you have a problem with reality. And the crisis the senate report is talking about is clearly the crisis in the USA. Show us where it says the USA is responsible for what is happening in Ireland or Greece, with govts mired in debt. Try actually reading the full article, and as I suggested, and following the links provided. I know that you are US educated, but you can read, can't you? It is all made clear, unless of course you would rather remain in denial. Still, I expect that you will deny everything even up until the day when your country is disintegrating around you. There is hardly an intelligent person alive with so much as a modicum of fiscal awareness who doesn't know that the GFC was US in origin. You president, your senate, your government all accept this, but you go right ahead and spit into the wind. |
#20
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For Dogman
On Oct 16, 8:31*am, Elmo wrote:
On 16/10/2011 10:02 PM, wrote: On Oct 16, 1:12 am, *wrote: On 16/10/2011 5:33 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 2:06 pm, * *wrote: On 16/10/2011 12:37 AM, wrote: On Oct 15, 3:51 am, * * *wrote: On 15/10/2011 1:30 PM, Dogman wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:17:36 +1000, wrote: On 15/10/2011 7:14 AM, Patricia Martin Steward wrote: Drudge is a poseur. Drudge has nothing to do with it, he didn't write the book, he just commented on it. It is only one of thousands of books and articles that are central to the decline of the US. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening but it won't change the inevitable. The USA is kaput! Its death throes might last for a year or two, but is is already beyond resuscitation. The most it can hope for is to recover to a third world status, and that is a very slim chance. It will never be a superpower again. It is bankrupt, fiscally and morally, and there is no chapter eleven for countries. We are already getting an influx of Americans arriving here, they have seen the inevitable and are jumping ship while what dollars they have still retain some value. Since your economy is so closely linked to ours, what do you think will happen to Canada should we actually become "kaput"? Hmmmmm? -- Dogman Unfortunately we will get dragged down with you, as will much of the western world. Thankfully as result of the first US caused GFC, most of the western world is prepared and will not be dragged as irrevocably low as the US. Instead of the usual liberal emotion, let's look at the actual facts about govt debt levels in *countries around the world. *Here's the list of countries with their debt to GDP ratios: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt Number one is Japan, with debt at 200% of GDP. Then we have Greece at 142%, Iceland at 126%, Italy at 120%, Belgium at 100%, Ireland at 97%, Portugal at 93%, and CANADA at 84%, France at 82%....... The USA is at 62%. *So, if we are on the road to financial ruin, Canada and a whole lot of other countries are already well ahead of us. Yes, some other countries are in poor fiscal condition as well, but most have a better chance of recovery. It doesn't change what is happening in the US. Those figures list Uganda, Algeria etc., at a much lower debt ratio than most countries, yet people are starving to death there, or dying of readily treatable diseases. Makes it pretty meaningless as a yardstick.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But we're not talking about starvation or disease troll. We're talking about your bogus claim that the US has caused a worldwide financial crisis because it's broke and can't pay it's debts. The United States Senate accepts that the GFC was US caused. * From Wiki.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_..._2008%E2%80%93... The above link does not work. It does if you use some thought - it isn't hard to search for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_..._2008%E2%80%93... Here's what Wiki has to say about the Irish financial crisis: "Background and causes: The Irish economy expanded rapidly during the Celtic Tiger years (1997– 2007) due to a low corporate tax rate, low ECB interest rates, and other factors. This led to an expansion of credit and included a property bubble which petered out in 2007. Irish banks, already over- exposed to the Irish property market, came under severe pressure in September 2008 due to the global financial crisis of 2007–2010" In other words, Ireland experienced similar economic circumstances to what happened in the USA, ie a property bubble driven by low interest rates. Top that off with a govt mired in debt from reckless spending. Yet, being a clueless America basher, you blame the USA How about Greece? *From CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/02/...nda/index.html "So what's the problem in Greece? Years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending and failure to implement financial reforms left Greece badly exposed when the global economic downturn struck. This whisked away a curtain of partly fiddled statistics to reveal debt levels and deficits that exceeded limits set by the eurozone. How big are these debts? National debt, put at €300 billion ($413.6 billion), is bigger than the country's economy, with some estimates predicting it will reach 120 percent of gross domestic product in 2010. The country's deficit -- how much more it spends than it takes in -- is 12.7 percent." Clearly this has nothing to do with anything the USA did. *Greece's national debt was over 100% of it's GDP as early as 2000, 7 years before anything went wrong in the USA. * Greece simply handed out money to lazy people who don't want to work. If anything, the USA has been a tremendous help to Greece because for 50 years we kept the Russians out of there with OUR defense spending. *That saved them trillions in spending and should have helped them economically. *It would have too, had they not ****ed it away on socialist programs. And before you say that Wiki is unreliable, follow the links in that article. They link to some very reliable sources. The late-2000s financial crisis (often called the Global Recession, Global Financial Crisis or the Credit Crunch) is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1] It resulted in the collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market had also suffered, resulting in numerous evictions, foreclosures and prolonged vacancies. It contributed to the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in the trillions of U.S. dollars, and a significant decline in economic activity, leading to a severe global economic recession in 2008.[2] The financial crisis was triggered by a liquidity shortfall in the United States banking system in 2008.[3] The collapse of the U.S. housing bubble, which peaked in 2007, caused the values of securities tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, damaging financial institutions globally. Sure, some banks internationally that had too much exposure to certain US sectors were damaged. *But they were damaged even more by doing exactly the same things in their own country, like in the examples of Ireland, Greece and Italy. [4] Questions regarding bank solvency, declines in credit availability and damaged investor confidence had an impact on global stock markets, where securities suffered large losses during 2008 and early 2009. Economies worldwide slowed during this period, as credit tightened and international trade declined.[5] Governments and central banks responded with unprecedented fiscal stimulus, monetary policy expansion and institutional bailouts. Although there have been aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between late-2008 and mid-2009.[6][7][8] While many causes for the financial crisis have been suggested, with varying weight assigned by experts,[9] the United States Senate issuing the Levin–Coburn Report found “that the crisis was not a natural disaster, but the result of high risk, complex financial products;[10] undisclosed conflicts of interest; and the failure of regulators, the credit rating agencies, and the market itself [11] to rein in the excesses of Wall Street.” [12]- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I like it when you prove yourself wrong. I haven't done that, all I have done is show how your own government thinks that people like you are wrong. Still waiting to see where that senate committee report says the USA is responsible for what is happening in Ireland, Greece, and next Italy. It talks about what happened in the USA. You are making the giant leap that the woes of all these other countries are the result of the USA. I showed you where Greece was at 100% of GDP already in 2000. I showed you where Ireland had it's own housing and economic bubble. Yet, being an American basher all that goes right over your head. Your own source above says many causes have been suggested. *And to use the US Senate that was directly involved in the financial problems here in the USA as a source is particularly silly. * The Congress has an approval rating of about 13% because everyone knows that most of them are a lying bunch of irresponsible skunks. No, everyone does not know that. Only total fools would make such a ridiculous claim. The entire Congress is lying? Show us where the entire Congress said the USA is responsible for the financial problems in Ireland, Greece or the rest of Europe. You really don't know much about govt, do you. You might find a loon or two out of 500 that said that, but we haven't even seen that from you, let alone the entire Congress. Your president is lying? Show us where Obama said the USA is responsible for the world's financial problems in places like Ireland and Greece. Your top economists who support the opinion of your government in their books, papers and articles are all lying? You could probably find some economists, who being America haters and socialists, would have that opinion. But I'd still like you to find one that says the problems in Greece, Ireland, etc are the fault of the USA. Even the banks abroad that were directly impacted by the mortgage crisis here have no excuse. Everyone knew the US housing market had gone way up for years, escalating even more sharply after 2000. And any banker with any brain and/or experience knows that these bubbles end badly. So, if they held debt obligations linked to those markets, how is it the fault of the USA and not their own greed and stupidity? I think that you have a problem with reality. Really? You're the one that claimed China owns all the US debt, when in fact it's 8%. You're the one that claimed the USA govt is so deep in debt it can't make payments, when in fact our debt to GDP is a fraction of the ratio of places like Japan, France, Italy, etc. And in fact it's about the same as your beloved Canada, so if we're broke, so are you. *And the crisis the senate report * is talking about is clearly the crisis in the USA. * Show us where it says the USA is responsible for what is happening in Ireland or Greece, with govts mired in debt. Try actually reading the full article, and as I suggested, and following the links provided. I know that you are US educated, but you can read, can't you? It is all made clear, unless of course you would rather remain in denial. I tried following your link and it does not work. I would assume the excerpts you provided are your best attempt to back up your assinine claims. Instead they refute it. |
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