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#31
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Wesley clark just entered the race
"HealthNutz" wrote in message are so small in practice as to be moot. A despot is a despot--does it really matter what's in his heart? It does when he's president of the United States and acting in the interests of an elite group of secret society friends and war profiteers and against the interests of his own people and using rhetoric about freedom and democracy as a cover while eroding real freedom and democracy.. Since you guys seem to have a knack for getting your 'nads in a crack, why should we listen to you? How come you're not listening to us? Pride? Arrogance? Or ignorance...? Time to drop the word Health from your handle I think... |
#32
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Wesley clark just entered the race
"Bobo Bonobo®" wrote in message Yes, you are absolutely right. They do think that. It's hard to believe they still think that after what has happened over the last 2 1/5 years though. The American people--the most innovative and productive people on the planet--seem retarded when it comes to politics. --Bryan 198/152/155 Would be funny if it wasn't tragic.. When civil/human rights are abused in other countries, they are among the first to recognise the injustice. When it happens at home. they seem to think it can't be happening because they are conditioned to believe freedom and democracy will protect them. Or am I wrong? |
#33
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Wesley clark just entered the race
Chet Hayes wrote:
If you can't take the heat and stand up to some pussy foreigner's who don't like the US, then maybe you should just stay home. If I were France or Germany, I would be so grateful to the US for saving my ass in WWII and from the Soviets in the cold war, that I wouldn't be picking senseless arguments over despots like Sadam Hussein. As has already been pointed out in this thread, over 30m people died in WW2 defending freedom. Around 290,000 of those were from the US. Around 290,000 were from Britain (a far larger proportion of the population) and 13,000,000 of them were from the USSR. If any gratitude is felt anywhere for defending freedom in WW2, it should be directed towards the people of the former USSR. As far as the cold war goes, the West was in it together. The USA shares (if I remember my geography) a tiny portion of its border with the former USSR, but part of Germany was handed over to the communists. There is no moral high ground here, and trying to take it on behalf of your nation only makes you look foolish. Lexin |
#34
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Wesley clark just entered the race
In article ,
"Lexin" wrote: As I pointed out before, the US was not alone in that war. At one stage, in the very early days of the war, there were only two countries fighting the might of the Wehrmacht, and they were Britain and Greece. Yes, probably that war could not have been won without the US, but gracelessly taking credit for the entire thing does your country no credit. Probably? Probably? That war and more. Massive, and I mean unprecedentedly massive shipments of foodstuffs, fuel and war materiel to England and the Soviet UNion before we actually sent troops kept both of these "allies" in the game almost from the beginning of hostilities. Your country can be forgiven its permissiveness and refusal to recognize true evil that led up to the war. This is a tendency for all democracies (which you finally had the wit to become after being forced to witness American colonists successfully defeating reign by accident of birth). After the fighting began, however, England's resourcefulness and singular courage is still the model for those virtues in the American mind today. Even in hollywood movies where left-wingers get their history. Don't accuse us of bad manners, however, for telling a truth that even your PM is willing to admit. If the lot of you have any bacon today it's because we saved it. More than once. And, to this observer, it looks like the same dysfunctional, class-obsessed european boobouisie that gave us WWI and WWII are gearing up for another cycle of insanity. -Have you ever seen Al Franken and Jeanine Garofolo together in the same room? |
#35
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Wesley clark just entered the race
wrote in message ... Probably? Probably? That war and more. Massive, and I mean unprecedentedly massive shipments of foodstuffs, fuel and war materiel to England and the Soviet UNion The USA *sold* overpriced stuff to UK for 2 years; this included stale food and utterly useless ancient destroyers, for example. This is a tendency for all democracies (which you finally had the wit to become after being forced to witness American colonists successfully defeating reign by accident of birth). Erm, I seem to have forgotten something. Could you please remind us who the current US President is. I seem to recall that he is a spoilt inadequate who reigns principally 'by accident of birth' (and sibling chicanery). To further the analogy with C18 England, he too is surrounded by certifiably lunatic sycophants. After the fighting began, however, England's resourcefulness and singular courage is still the model for those virtues in the American mind today. Erm, is that 'after the fighting began' as in 1939, or as in December 1941? Bear in mind that the USA only entered the 'European' war because Hitler suicidally swung in behind Japan, and declared war on America. Otherwise, the USA would probably have fought a Pacific war and cheerfully left the European nations to pummel each other into oblivion. And, to this observer, it looks like the same dysfunctional, class-obsessed european boobouisie that gave us WWI and WWII are gearing up for another cycle of insanity. No, grasshopper, your leaders have learned well, but they have learned nothing. The USA is now marching into a bigger, better global conflict, but this time armed with infinitely more terrifying weaponry, an infinitely greater sense of blinkered self-righteousness and infinitely more impassioned hatred ranged against it. Previous wars were primarily territorial. This one is ideological, much like the Crusades. As such, it is going to be far longer and far nastier ... |
#36
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Wesley clark just entered the race
wrote:
Your country can be forgiven its permissiveness and refusal to recognize true evil that led up to the war. Er...had it not been for Pearl Harbour the US would probably not have joined the war at all. And by that time Britain had been fighting real battles for quite some time. This is a tendency for all democracies (which you finally had the wit to become after being forced to witness American colonists successfully defeating reign by accident of birth). I think you need to look back at your history books, your British history seems to be a bit out of wack. If the lot of you have any bacon today it's because we saved it. But not alone. No country did it alone, not even the US and my gratitude goes to the Russians, frankly. A loss of 13m as opposed to 290,000 for the US, about the same for Britain - though given our relative populations that's still person for person a whole lot greater sacrifice. -- Lexin www.redrosepress.co.uk www.livejournal.com/~lexin LC since 9 June 2003 (300/263/182) |
#37
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Wesley clark just entered the race
"M.W. Smith" wrote in message
... .... You had the last word. Thank you kindly, sir! (:-o) DustyB martin .... |
#38
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Wesley clark just entered the race
"Lexin" wrote in message
... .... A despot is a despot--does it really matter what's in his heart? Yes, I think it does. If people make the repeated point that "political and social philosophy X leads to bad effect Y, as exemplified by tyrant And there we have it, folks. Despot A kills 20 million human beings; depot B kills 6 million human beings, despot C kills 1/4 of his countries population; and we're reduced to debating the relative merits of the basis of one despot's methods as opposed to the others? Liberal, elitist intelligentsia ruminations at their pointless finest! .... I have to say that given the lack of a fully comprehensive welfare system and a national health service, I wouldn't live in the US if you paid me to come - and I'm currently a net payer for those services rather than a user of them. Good! I don't want a socialized health care system that serves its citizens as poorly as does yours. I lived and worked in GB for 4-1/2 years. My daughter was born there. I've had the unfortunate occasion to have had need of your "progressive" health care system. That usage gave me the opportunity to see it from the inside, devoid of liberal spin and cover--not a pretty thing! Americans should be grateful that they don't have to rely on something equally overloaded and incompetent. .... After the fall of France, Greece and Britain happened to be the last two unconquered nations who were already in the war. Remember, this was Yes. And so? This is essentially what I had said... before the US joined. Remember also, that the US's first attitude towards this European conflict was to let the Europeans get on with it unaided. This was pretty prevalent up until (and even sometimes as far That would have been my option as well. You folks have been warring on and killing each other in one way, shape, form, place or another for thousands of years. Why get in the middle of such an endless conflict? However, wiser heads prevailed. I'm reluctant to give them credit for having the vision to notice that we're all living on an increasingly "smaller" globe. And along with that comes the growing ability of combatants to be able to visit increasingly lethal destruction upon each other, more accurately, and at greater ranges. But those two issues made entry important (but whether it was for that reason or not is unknown to me). Today the globe is even "smaller", and lethality of many things is even greater. There can never again be a case for taking action *after* a "shot" has been fired. That option only works for cowards and the deceased. as the European theatre was concerned, after) Pearl Harbour. It could even be argued that the US joined not to ensure freedom for Europe, but because it saw its European markets about to disappear - Hitler did not Yeah. I'm sure that was it. I was wondering how long it would take for you to get to the "eviiiil biiiig businesssssss!" part. I love how that works; big business is evil, big government is wonderful...big sigh! .... You said, "You would be well advised to use the freedoms given to you and Norway by American blood and material wisely" and repeated the same argument in this part of the thread. The implication was that the US, You keep on returning to the drumbeat of how it wasn't America alone. I believe that I've already stipulated that. Except in your mind, that's not the issue in dispute here! The issue is that without American entry into *your* war, you wouldn't have the country you have at the moment. In case it's escaped your notice, you (not 'you' personally, "Lexin", Europe in general) guys were getting your asses kicked! You weren't in the process of liberating France and the rest of the poodles over there, it was just the opposite--you were being ground under! A point you can't seem to understand. Probably because all of the intelligentsia were too busy debating the relative merits of one version of a totalitarian paradise over another. .... Graceless would be not thanking those who helped - and that, as I've commented twice now, includes but is not limited to the USA. It could Would that be those that helped *before* the American entry into your conflict, or the ones that help after...? .... Could not then at least a weak argument be made that between us (as countries on either side of that chasm), that when the United States has already TWICE demonstrated the ability to defend freedom for not only itself, but others as well; that it should at least have a fair say in how future events are carried out? I don't believe, so, no. Freedom is worth nothing if those for whom it Then you I will simply have to agree to disagree. As a practical man, things to me sometimes tend to be black and white. I've gotten along quite well through the application of a single bit of wisdom that I came upon some time back. I live by: when you do something and the result turns out NOT to be the one you wanted; you can be accused of being dumb. Then, when you continue to do the same thing over and over and over, and get the same result; that's stupid! I endeavor to live my life so as not to be known as stupid. When I do something dumb, I resolve to learn from it. I adjust my rudder, and attempt to avoid a repetition of that fate. You Europeans have managed twice in the last century, by following your own innate wisdom (a somewhat interesting but different thread I would think), managed to get yourselves into a pickle that America had to come over to fix. And now you self-righteously insist that *you* are the harbinger of what's right and proper for all? And that if we had a lick of sense we should hurry up and take you at your wisdom? And here I thought you guys didn't have a sense of humor... ... long twisting, winding diatribe on freedom and democracy snipped ... My family and I escaped from some twisted minds version of a socialist, totalitarian "workers paradise". Many that fled with us (all 126, as far as we know) didn't survive that event. I understand democracy and what it stands for. I don't need a lecture on freedom, its value or its cost, or what it's worth to one who so easily would give it up for the illusion of security... Later all, DustyB BTW; a most impressive set of numbers. Congrats! Lexin .... LC since 9 June 2003 (300/263/182) |
#39
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Wesley clark just entered the race
"Barry Smith" wrote in message
... "HealthNutz" wrote in message eastern Germany. Until just recently, they couldn't do what you are doing. And that same fate was AND STILL IS the goal of the international communist party today. Do you have a link for this international communist party? http://www.vcp.nu/vcpnieuws/links.htm http://www.cpgb.org.uk/links/ http://www.basque-red.net/eng/links/ecomueng/c001.htm http://www.wpiran.org/links/links.html http://www.communist-party.org.uk/home/index.php http://www.communist-party.ca/links/WEurope.html http://www.kominf.pp.fi/Textra.html http://www.cpusa.org/article/archive/41/ Drop me a note when you've wended your way through these; I've got 360,000 more if you need them... DustyB -- -= Remove CARBS to reply =- |
#40
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Wesley clark just entered the race
"HealthNutz" wrote:
A despot is a despot--does it really matter what's in his heart? "Lexin" wrote: Yes, I think it does. If people make the repeated point that "political and social philosophy X leads to bad effect Y, as exemplified by tyrant [snippage] In short, if you're going to claim that social philosophy X leads to bad effect Y, at least choose a valid example. "HealthNutz" wrote: Liberal, elitist intelligentsia ruminations at their pointless finest! I think if you don't understand why your thinking here is sloppy, we probably have nothing further to discuss. -- Lexin www.redrosepress.co.uk www.livejournal.com/~lexin LC since 9 June 2003 (300/263/182) |
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